Who has the right to keep names???

[Aarif]

Nowadays in most of the places, names of new born children in our community are chosen by Syedna. He gives couple of names (one for boy and one for girl ) and parents are forced to use these names for their children. I personally feel that naming a new born baby is the right of parents and their close relatives as per their liking. Syedna typically has a list of 5-10 names that he keeps rotating. People in our community are getting used to this system like everything else. Its a pathetic state of affairs where people cannot even name their own children as per their linking...

[WYP]

It is your choice to ask the Syedna for names for your child. Most believers think that it is auspicious for the child if the name is chosen by the Syedna. However, you can also ask for raza to keep a name of your choice and submit that name for obtaining raza. Third choice, you can keep whatever name you want. Nobody forces you to ask Syedna to name your child.

5-10 names...exaggeration extreme

[Smart]

^
The third choice is not available to abdes. The moment the local aamil or a S'zaada comes to know about it, they ask you to change it.

[S. Insaf]

Earlier Bohra parents used to name their children "Fatema", "Husain" "Shabbir", "Hassan", "Ali Asghar", Ali Akbar etc. as per their love and faith in Ahle-Byte and Martyres of Karbala. In fact the naming the child by Syedna was started by Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb and hence maximum number of child were named as "Saifuddin" or "Taher". It was one more method to glorify late Syedna's name. Now "Burhan", "Huzaifa", "Quide", "Mufaddal" etc. are most common names one can hear of Bohras of new generation.

[aqs]

Insaaf saheb,

Just curious who kept your name

and your survey is a bit skewed as the maximum names given by Syedna(tus) is Hussain and you will find really very few Taher's, saifuddin's or Mufaddal's or Burhanuddin's

[Smart]

^
Irrespective of what names are given, the whole concept of giving names to children is an insidious mechanism of controlling the life of Bohras from cradle to grave.

[aqs]

^
Majority dont have any problem and are infact very much happy by taking name from Syedna (tus) and and whoever has problem is very much free to keep the names of their choices, no one bothers.

[Al Zulfiqar]

my entire family - my siblings and all our children - are named by ourselves.

i named my own kids after carefully considering their meaning and implications combined with our family name. no one has ever asked to change these namea or my own inspite it being one of the names anathema to the past several syednas. same goes on the side of my inlaws.

where previously the trend in us was to name our children after panjatan pak and other prominent ashabas, besides them we chose names with persian/urdu influence. now since the last 40-50 years syedna is giving names veering toward arabs and arabic, as if to show that we are descendants of arabs. even this ridiculous tragi-comic dawat ni zaban seems to be an attempt to prepare bohras to steer them towards arabic.

our bohras are gullible enough to seek names from syedna's office (doubt the old man even sees one of these arzi's) thinking that he is ghaib na mailk and will send a name full of magical and beneficial properties. it is like the masses in india raising the filmstars and cricketers to the level of gods. if we stop according so much over exaggerated importance to the syedna and his family, they will be bought down to earth with a crash. let the syedna do his duty of dawaah and preaching to us. period. everything over and above is a monster we have ourselves created by raising him and his useless parasites onto a pedestal. and you know once you do that, the darling of the masses becomes an arrogant tyrant, and you his abdes.

[Aarif]

It is your choice to ask the Syedna for names for your child. Most believers think that it is auspicious for the child if the name is chosen by the Syedna. However, you can also ask for raza to keep a name of your choice and submit that name for obtaining raza. Third choice, you can keep whatever name you want. Nobody forces you to ask Syedna to name your child.

WYPee,

My post is inspired by a very recent incident in my own family in Mumbai. My relatives had chosen a name for the child and when they went to the janaab to get some taweez which is a must nowadays for pregnant women, the janaab told them that he will submit a request to syedna for the name of the child and that is the only way people are advised to keep names these days. He ruled out the option of parents and family deciding the name of the child. When they insisted he asked them that "tamhaare Moula karta wadhare khabar che su?" So stop bullshiting about choices. As Smart rightly mentioned abdes don't have a choice.

[SBM]

^
I agree with AZ, I did name my children based on my prefrences and when I was told by local Aamil to change it, I explained the reason why I name my children( sentimental connection) and they did not object even though the names did not meet their naming criteria (usually Arabic sounding) and I still have the name ( also once you take a firm stand, usually Kotharis do not argue with you and leave you alone)
But at the same time, if one asks for name from Syedna and once name is given, then they have to acccept it. I have met Abdes who asked for names and when the names were given they did not like it and complained about it but they had no choice as Kothar refused to re-consider and I do tend to agree, if you asked for it you have to abide otherwise do not bother and move on with your choices and life........
Aqs
In some Jamaats the pressure is too much to change the name also, if local Aamil does not like your name (specially if you name the child without RAZA) he asks you to change and if you do not follow the ORDER, then they humiliate you and would not perform Misaq or other rituals.

[WYP]

WYPee,

Grow up and get out of kindergarten.

Your family does not represent the whole population. To generalize that what happened to your family is the norm and not an exception is extremely narrow minded to say the least.

Ask your family to grow a pair and make a choice which is right for them and not be bullied around by a "janaab".

[anajmi]

WYP has a very valid point. It is time the bohras grew a pair. Do not be bullied by these BSes and Janaabs and Amils.

[Aarif]

Your family does not represent the whole population. To generalize that what happened to your family is the norm and not an exception is extremely narrow minded to say the least.
Ask your family to grow a pair and make a choice which is right for them and not be bullied around by a "janaab".

My family has already chosen the name for the baby and are going to use that. They give a damn about what the janaab has to say.
I brought up this incident for abdes like you who try to justify anything our clergy say or do just for the heck of it. And also to highlight the fact that how much our clergy is trying to control our lives. I also wanted to put forward that it is pathetic that people in our community have to fight for these basic rights of naming their children. Isn't this something fundamental?

And for your kind information this is not just one isolated incident. These days everywhere bohras are asked to make arzee to Syedna to obtain names for their children. The janaab told that this is general practice these days followed by mumineen everywhere.

And also, Br. Insaf has mentioned the correct list of names in criculation these days. When my cousin was pregnant Syedna had given two names. Huzefa if it is a boy and Jumanah if it is a girl. If you will do little research you will be amazed to find how common these names are in our community.

[ghulam muhammed]

There are far too many instances wherein bohras were forced to change their names if it was not a stereotyped bohra name especially at the time of taking misaq and even as far as at the time of performing nikah. Imagine a grown up man/woman having to change his/her name which he/she had adorned for so many years. Imagine the pain of going thru all the legal proceedures like changing names on passports, driving licence, bank a/c's and gazzettes just to please kothar.

I have witnessed women being forced to change their name from Tabassum to Nafisa, Mehjabeen to Tasnim. Other names which are disliked by kothar are Aarif, Riaz, Zakir, Shafakat not to forget the most despised ones which are Umar, Usman, Farookh although these were the names of the sons of Mola Ali (a.s.) the one whom bohras claim they love the most.

The recent very common female name is Amatullah, the reason of which is well known and doesnt need to be elaborated.

[questions]

In any case, the original name of a child is announced with the whole azaan ritual. When a persons name is changed in adulthood, no such ceremony is done.
I guess the janaab should be asked back 'kay azaan afzal chay ya tumhara maula no farman? '

And I agree with the list of 4-5 names for that year.Can almost tell what year one was born by the name !

[rania]

I do not understand what is the issue here !

Bohras want the Syedna to name their kids. Why are others whinging about it ?

It is ironic that they think this is a practice of control as the Syedna gives names to the kids of Bohras when the Parents do want that and then they want to exercise control on the wishes of the Parents by telling them they should name the kids themselves ?

I am wondering on who named Ali ( as ) . And if the Parents of Ali ( As ) have not named him , then will the thread starter whinge about this non-issue too ?

[rania]

Earlier Bohra parents used to name their children "Fatema", "Husain" "Shabbir", "Hassan", "Ali Asghar", Ali Akbar etc. as per their love and faith in Ahle-Byte and Martyres of Karbala. In fact the naming the child by Syedna was started by Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb and hence maximum number of child were named as "Saifuddin" or "Taher". It was one more method to glorify late Syedna's name. Now "Burhan", "Huzaifa", "Quide", "Mufaddal" etc. are most common names one can hear of Bohras of new generation.

Aren't you some Secretary of Progressive Movement ?

I wonder what ' S ' stands for in your username ! Is it your first name ?

[rania]

WYPee,

Grow up and get out of kindergarten.

Your family does not represent the whole population. To generalize that what happened to your family is the norm and not an exception is extremely narrow minded to say the least.

Very Well Said !

[Aarif]

I wonder what ' S ' stands for in your username ! Is it your first name ?

'S' stands for his first name which is Saifuddin. I am wondering what Rania stands for. Please enlighten us...

[WYP]

They give a damn about what the janaab has to say.

And yet they went grovelling to the janaab for a lousy trinket taweez.
Do you also call your cousin and family abde? I think they fit the mold perfectly.

[Muslim First]

A fellow with double engineering degrees and a Harvard MBA, his Doctor wife had to change name here in Boston.

Both had nice names.

[Aarif]

And yet they went grovelling to the janaab for a lousy trinket taweez.
Do you also call your cousin and family abde? I think they fit the mold perfectly.

Pee,

The taweez consists of some duas which is the dawoodi bohra tradition for a long time. Being a traditional Dawoodi Bohra is different from being a feet licking cult following abde. But I think for people like you it is one and the same thing. Again my cousin's inlaws are abdes and they got these names. Don't try to derail the topic. Abdes like you have this well known tendency of petty nit-picking when they don't have anything sensible to talk.

[Smart]

^
Majority dont have any problem and are infact very much happy by taking name from Syedna (tus) and and whoever has problem is very much free to keep the names of their choices, no one bothers.

To say that no one bothers is a lie. A majority of Bohras would not bother to ask for the name. However they know that they will be bothered later if they don't go through the process of asking for a name by the so called arzi. They take the easy way to avoid hassles. It is not that they are really happy to do so. They just have to pretend to be so.

I will quote my own experience.

I named by daughter, by my own choice. At the time of her aqiqa at 21 days, I was told to change her name, which I refused. I have been harassed since then. My father and brother have been arm-twisted into pressurising me to change her name. Now the message that is sent to me frequently, i.e. once every quarter, is "Josu ka sudhi potani akad par rahe chhe. Chella ghutna tekine aawsej. Dar warse wajebaat chhe, misak chhe, chelle nikah na time par to pakdasej. Tiware joi laisu. Naak na ragdaviye to hamaru naam nahi."

Is this what you mean, when you say "no one bothers"?

[rania]

I wonder what ' S ' stands for in your username ! Is it your first name ?

'S' stands for his first name which is Saifuddin. I am wondering what Rania stands for. Please enlighten us...

Keep wondering !

His name is ' Saifuddin ' ? Quite Ironic I must say !

Any guesses on who provided Insaf's name ? Can't say I am not curious.

[rania]

Pee,

don't have anything sensible to talk.

I agree !

[rania]

^
Majority dont have any problem and are infact very much happy by taking name from Syedna (tus) and and whoever has problem is very much free to keep the names of their choices, no one bothers.

To say that no one bothers is a lie. A majority of Bohras would not bother to ask for the name. However they know that they will be bothered later if they don't go through the process of asking for a name by the so called arzi. They take the easy way to avoid hassles. It is not that they are really happy to do so. They just have to pretend to be so.

I will quote my own experience.

I named by daughter, by my own choice. At the time of her aqiqa at 21 days, I was told to change her name, which I refused. I have been harassed since then. My father and brother have been arm-twisted into pressurising me to change her name. Now the message that is sent to me frequently, i.e. once every quarter, is "Josu ka sudhi potani akad par rahe chhe. Chella ghutna tekine aawsej. Dar warse wajebaat chhe, misak chhe, chelle nikah na time par to pakdasej. Tiware joi laisu. Naak na ragdaviye to hamaru naam nahi."

Is this what you mean, when you say "no one bothers"?

Out of curiosity , what is your daughter's name ?

[bohra_manus]

^
Majority dont have any problem and are infact very much happy by taking name from Syedna (tus) and and whoever has problem is very much free to keep the names of their choices, no one bothers.

It is not entirely true. I have witnessed many instances where Shehzada saheb or Sayedan saheb has asked the name to be changed. Not only royal families but regular Aamils give hard times especially during missaq and wedding. In one case when the parents went to consult local Aamil for their daughter's upcoming wedding, the Aamil made them change their daughters name & insisted the new name to be used on the invitation cards.
So don't tell me no one bothers, they make life difficult if you don't obey just for the sake of names.
I have also seen e-jammat application forms where under childrens name, there is check box if the name was given by Maula? Why?

[Al Zulfiqar]

bohra manus,

i agree. why do they have these questions in the ejamaat form? so they can determine how much of an abde (bonded laborer of syedna) are you?

btw, who is "royal family"?? please stop using such terms to describe the syedna's parasitic family. if they are royal, then the jhaduwala outside bombay municipality is the emperor of india..!!

[profastian]

In any case, the original name of a child is announced with the whole azaan ritual. When a persons name is changed in adulthood, no such ceremony is done.
I guess the janaab should be asked back 'kay azaan afzal chay ya tumhara maula no farman? '

Ofcourse Maula nu farman is afzal.
The name is asked not because of any magical properties but just because if Syedna gives the name, the name of that child will be first spoken by Syedna

[Smart]

rania wrote,
Out of curiosity , what is your daughter's name ?

Not rania for sure.