Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.
anajmi
Posts: 13511
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Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#211

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:42 pm

profastian,
Yeah i know I am ignorant, so humor me.
where in the Quran is it said that there should be no Sajda except to Allah?
The problem is that you are so ignorant that you do not even know how ignorant you are. porus has been kind enough to explain, from the quran, that Allah has prohibited sajda to anyone other than Himself. This is the thread where he did that

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... r&start=60

Let us know if your ignorance persists.

profastian
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#212

Unread post by profastian » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:57 am

anajmi wrote:profastian,
Yeah i know I am ignorant, so humor me.
where in the Quran is it said that there should be no Sajda except to Allah?
The problem is that you are so ignorant that you do not even know how ignorant you are. porus has been kind enough to explain, from the quran, that Allah has prohibited sajda to anyone other than Himself. This is the thread where he did that

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... r&start=60

Let us know if your ignorance persists.
Yeah the jackass gives argument from "Surat al-Fussilat, ayat 37, says "asjudu li-llahi...in kuntum iyya-hu ta'abudun'."
He conveniently ignores to write the full ayat.

The translation of the Ayah is
"And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Prostrate not to the sun nor to the moon, but prostrate to Allah Who created them, if you (really) worship Him."
This ayah warns against prostration to the sun and the moon and commands Muslim to prostate to Allah.
No mention of no prostration to anyone except Allah?

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#213

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:25 am

Yeah the jackass gives argument from "Surat al-Fussilat, ayat 37, says "asjudu li-llahi...in kuntum iyya-hu ta'abudun'."
He conveniently ignores to write the full ayat.

The translation of the Ayah is
"And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Prostrate not to the sun nor to the moon, but prostrate to Allah Who created them, if you (really) worship Him."
This ayah warns against prostration to the sun and the moon and commands Muslim to prostate to Allah.
No mention of no prostration to anyone except Allah?
Ya Jackasses with proclavity to sajada to human being will dance and dance and look for clear instructions,

I might ask same JA where in the Quran a clear instruction that there will be Imam from Ahle bait after the Prophet?

Anybody for
The Quran Challenge

This is an open challenge for the Shia to give Quranic verses which outline and justify the Shia concept of Imamah. Can the Shia produce even a single verse outlining Imamah, without any additions to the translation, without parenthetical insertions to the translation, without Hadith to “support” their interpretation, without Tafseer, and without their own personal commentaries leading us from verse to verse?

When the Shia is forced to produce the Quranic verses without any additions, he will find it impossible to even come close to fulfilling the “Quran Challenge.” Not a single verse in the Quran says anything even remotely close to “O believers, after the Prophet, there will be Imams chosen by Allah and you should follow them.” The Shia can never produce a single verse in the Quran that shows anything even similar to this. In fact, the Shia will be forced to produce long Tafseer and circuitious arguments involving certain verses with added meanings to them; but if we ask the Shia to simply read the verse without any insertions, then suddenly they cannot produce even a single verse in the Quran to justify Imamah. Suffice to say that the Shia becomes polemically incapacitated if he is forced to use the Quran and Quran alone.

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#214

Unread post by incredible » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:08 am

may be in quraan no clear verse shows to follow Imam after prophet so now show me any clear verse which says pray 4 rakat namaz of zuhur?

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#215

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:50 am

Quran does not give details of salaat/Namaaz.

For that we look for guidance from Prophet SAW and there is ample record of it in Sunnah.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#216

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:55 am

may be in quraan no clear verse shows to follow Imam after prophet so now show me any clear verse which says pray 4 rakat namaz of zuhur?
Instead of addressing question Shia will always come up with counter questions!!!!!

Read this

http://www.ahlelbayt.com/category/articles/imamah

incredible
Posts: 1034
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm

Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#217

Unread post by incredible » Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:10 am

Muslim First wrote:
may be in quraan no clear verse shows to follow Imam after prophet so now show me any clear verse which says pray 4 rakat namaz of zuhur?
Instead of addressing question Shia will always come up with counter questions!!!!!

Read this

http://www.ahlelbayt.com/category/articles/imamah

I am asking u a simple qs.....muslim prays five times a day but still no where in quraan it is mention how many rakats shud be prayed,no wonder imamah is not mention in quraan but still Imam is present w either u belive it or not.

anajmi
Posts: 13511
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#218

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:05 am

The translation of the Ayah is
"And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Prostrate not to the sun nor to the moon, but prostrate to Allah Who created them, if you (really) worship Him."
This ayah warns against prostration to the sun and the moon and commands Muslim to prostate to Allah. No mention of no prostration to anyone except Allah?
Correct. The ayah says that sun and the moon are his signs. Do not prostrate to his signs. Do not prostrate to his creation. Prostrate only to Allah. Only dumb abdes won't be able to put 2 and 2 together.

It is laughable that even when these abdes have difficulty understanding clear ayahs of the Quran, they are arrogant enough to claim knowledge of the hidden meaning of the Quran!!

anajmi
Posts: 13511
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#219

Unread post by anajmi » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:10 am

incredible,

You are putting forth an illogical argument. For eg. I can claim that I am the new Imam, worship me. If someone comes and says, prove it from the Quran, I will put forth the bohra argument that since Quran does not mention the number of rakats, it does not need to mention me either. So either believe in me or you are doomed. So how do you determine if I am the true Imam or not? You go back to the basics. Do all muslims agree on the number of rakats in the salaah? Do all muslims agree on this Imam? Is there evidence about it from the teachings of the prophet (saw)?

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#220

Unread post by Muslim First » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:15 am

Br. Incredible

Here is some more reading for you

HOW TO APPROACH THE SHIA BROTHERS/SISTERS -
A STRAIGHT FORWARD LOGIC INSTEAD OF A NEVER ENDING DEBATE

HTTP://ALLAAHUAKBAR.NET/SHIITES/HOW_TO_ ... ROTHER.HTM

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#221

Unread post by Aarif » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:18 am

Anajmi,

Do you still think that Pro-fart has any interest in learning or understanding holy Quran. He is here just to protect his master by hook-or-crook. If you read his posts you will find him asking dumb questions always starting with "Where exactly in Quran it is mentioned..." He is looking for those literal expressions rather than real meaning of Ayah.

BTW: You can make him extremely happy by telling him that his Dai's first name "Burhan" litrally appears in couple of places in quran and since his name is specifically mentioned in the holy Quran his authority is not less than that of our prophet(pbuh)" :mrgreen:

profastian
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Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#222

Unread post by profastian » Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:19 am

Aarif wrote:Anajmi,

Do you still think that Pro-fart has any interest in learning or understanding holy Quran. He is here just to protect his master by hook-or-crook. If you read his posts you will find him asking dumb questions always starting with "Where exactly in Quran it is mentioned..." He is looking for those literal expressions rather than real meaning of Ayah.

BTW: You can make him extremely happy by telling him that his Dai's first name "Burhan" litrally appears in couple of places in quran and since his name is specifically mentioned in the holy Quran his authority is not less than that of our prophet(pbuh)" :mrgreen:
My master doesn't need protection(What the heck can you losers do to him).
He is looking for those literal expressions rather than real meaning of Ayah.
What a joke. First you tell me that we are not following the Quran. Then when I ask show me where in the Quran is there any contradiction to what do we,
you come up with "real meaning" of the Ayah. Who the heck taught you the real meaning of the Ayah.

humble_servant_us
Posts: 471
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#223

Unread post by humble_servant_us » Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:57 am

For eg. I can claim that I am the new Imam, worship me. If someone comes and says, prove it from the Quran, I will put forth the bohra argument that since Quran does not mention the number of rakats, it does not need to mention me either.
Wrong statement. If you tell us you are a new Imam, we will ask you to prove it not only from Quran but from Quran and Sunnah of the prophet(pbuh).
So how do you determine if I am the true Imam or not? You go back to the basics. Do all muslims agree on the number of rakats in the salaah? Do all muslims agree on this Imam? Is there evidence about it from the teachings of the prophet (saw)?
If majority of muslims do something it doesn't mean correct to us. What is correct to us is what prophet(pbuh) did. We have stringent ways of determining what prophet(pbuh) actually did, unlike many who can take anything from anywhere in the name of prophet(pbuh). History is full of despotic rulers who have fabricated wrong traditions in the name of prophet(pbuh). But it is the Allah(swt)'s infinite mercy grace that prophet(pbuh) left behind Quran and ahlul-bait(as) for us to guide us the true tenets of islam.

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#224

Unread post by Muslim First » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:30 am

we will ask you to prove it not only from Quran but from Quran and Sunnah of the prophet(pbuh).
Can you show a single verse in the Quran says anything even remotely close to “O believers, after the Prophet, there will be Imams chosen by Allah and you should follow them.” The Shia can never produce a single verse in the Quran that shows anything even similar to this.

If Prophet SAW meant to appoint Imam after him then why did he npt say clearly "I appoint Ali as next Imam"
Why did he not make announce during his last Khutba? Even at Ghadeer he did not say it.

And what are proofs derived from Quran and Hadith?

Humsafar
Posts: 2623
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#225

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:36 am

profastian wrote:My master doesn't need protection(What the heck can you losers do to him).
But of course he does not need protection. It's Bohras who need protection from his mafia !!!!

anajmi
Posts: 13511
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#226

Unread post by anajmi » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:18 am

History is full of despotic rulers who have fabricated wrong traditions in the name of prophet(pbuh).
Like hidden Imams and "Haq Na Saheb" Dai?
But it is the Allah(swt)'s infinite mercy grace that prophet(pbuh) left behind Quran and ahlul-bait(as) for us to guide us the true tenets of islam.
There are no ahle bayt around today. All we have is despotic rulers like the Dai.
Wrong statement. If you tell us you are a new Imam, we will ask you to prove it not only from Quran but from Quran and Sunnah of the prophet(pbuh).
You won't find hidden Imams or Dais or anything related to Imamat in any teachings of any of the first five shia ahlul bayt. Can you show us how you determined this through your "stringent" ways? Incase you cannot, you better accept me as your Imam. Nothing about the Dai is mentioned in the Quran or the Sunnah of the prophet and he still manages to bully you guys. Now it is my turn.

Aarif
Posts: 1426
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#227

Unread post by Aarif » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:20 pm

you come up with "real meaning" of the Ayah. Who the heck taught you the real meaning of the Ayah.
Fart,

There are many translations of holy Quran available. All of them provide similar translations and if you use your basic common sense it is not difficult to interpret their meanings and arrive to a conclusion. Here is the translation of surah Al-Imran by Yusuf Ali which clearly tells me that a true Muslim is only suppose to pray to Allah and bow down before him. For your benefit I have marked the more relevant ayahs in bold which is good enough to prove that the current Dai is doing many things against the teachings holy Quran and therefore is a big fraud.

77. As for those who sell the faith they owe to Allah and their own plighted word for a small price, they shall have no portion in the Hereafter: Nor will Allah (Deign to) speak to them or look at them on the Day of Judgment, nor will He cleans them (of sin): They shall have a grievous penalty.

78. There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah. It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it!

79. It is not (possible) that a man, to whom is given the Book, and Wisdom, and the prophetic office, should say to people: "Be ye my worshippers rather than Allah.s": on the contrary (He would say) "Be ye worshippers of Him Who is truly the Cherisher of all: For ye have taught the Book and ye have studied it earnestly."

80. Nor would he instruct you to take angels and prophets for Lords and patrons. What! would he bid you to unbelief after ye have bowed your will (To Allah in Islam)?

81. Behold! Allah took the covenant of the prophets, saying: "I give you a Book and Wisdom; then comes to you an apostle, confirming what is with you; do ye believe in him and render him help." Allah said: "Do ye agree, and take this my Covenant as binding on you?" They said: "We agree." He said: "Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."

82. If any turn back after this, they are perverted transgressors.

83. Do they seek for other than the Religion of Allah.-while all creatures in the heavens and on earth have, willing or unwilling, bowed to His Will (Accepted Islam), and to Him shall they all be brought back.

84. Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam)."

85. If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah., never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).


86. How shall Allah Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the Messenger was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but Allah guides not a people unjust.

87. Of such the reward is that on them (rests) the curse of Allah, of His angels, and of all mankind;-

88. In that will they dwell; nor will their penalty be lightened, nor respite be (their lot);-

89. Except for those that repent (Even) after that, and make amends; for verily Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

90. But those who reject Faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of Faith,- never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray.

91. As to those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- never would be accepted from any such as much gold as the earth contains, though they should offer it for ransom. For such is (in store) a penalty grievous, and they will find no helpers.

92. By no means shall ye attain righteousness unless ye give (freely) of that which ye love; and whatever ye give, of a truth Allah knoweth it well.

93. All food was lawful to the Children of Israel, except what Israel Made unlawful for itself, before the Law (of Moses) was revealed. Say: "Bring ye the Law and study it, if ye be men of truth."

94. If any, after this, invent a lie and attribute it to Allah, they are indeed unjust wrong-doers.

95. Say: "(Allah) speaketh the Truth: follow the religion of Abraham, the sane in faith; he was not of the Pagans."

96. The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka: Full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings:

97. In it are Signs Manifest; (for example), the Station of Abraham; whoever enters it attains security; Pilgrimage thereto is a duty men owe to Allah,- those who can afford the journey; but if any deny faith, Allah stands not in need of any of His creatures.

98. Say: "O People of the Book! Why reject ye the Signs of Allah, when Allah is Himself witness to all ye do?"

99. Say: "O ye People of the Book! Why obstruct ye those who believe, from the path of Allah, Seeking to make it crooked, while ye were yourselves witnesses (to Allah.s Covenant)? but Allah is not unmindful of all that ye do."

100. O ye who believe! If ye listen to a faction among the People of the Book, they would (indeed) render you apostates after ye have believed!

101. And how would ye deny Faith while unto you are rehearsed the Signs of Allah, and among you Lives the Messenger. Whoever holds firmly to Allah will be shown a way that is straight.

102. O ye who believe! Fear Allah as He should be feared, and die not except in a state of Islam.

103. And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah.s favour on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: That ye may be guided.

104. Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong: They are the ones to attain felicity.

105. Be not like those who are divided amongst themselves and fall into disputations after receiving Clear Signs: For them is a dreadful penalty,-

106. On the Day when some faces will be (lit up with) white, and some faces will be (in the gloom of) black: To those whose faces will be black, (will be said): "Did ye reject Faith after accepting it? Taste then the penalty for rejecting Faith."

107. But those whose faces will be (lit with) white,- they will be in (the light of) Allah.s mercy: therein to dwell (for ever).

108. These are the Signs of Allah. We rehearse them to thee in Truth: And Allah means no injustice to any of His creatures.

109. To Allah belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: To Him do all questions go back (for decision).

110. Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.

111. They will do you no harm, barring a trifling annoyance; if they come out to fight you, they will show you their backs, and no help shall they get.

112. Shame is pitched over them (Like a tent) wherever they are found, except when under a covenant (of protection) from Allah and from men; they draw on themselves wrath from Allah, and pitched over them is (the tent of) destitution. This because they rejected the Signs of Allah, and slew the prophets in defiance of right; this because they rebelled and transgressed beyond bounds.

113. Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.

114. They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous.

115. Of the good that they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for Allah knoweth well those that do right.

116. Those who reject Faith,- neither their possessions nor their (numerous) progeny will avail them aught against Allah. They will be companions of the Fire,- dwelling therein (for ever).

117. What they spend in the life of this (material) world May be likened to a wind which brings a nipping frost: It strikes and destroys the harvest of men who have wronged their own souls: it is not Allah that hath wronged them, but they wrong themselves.

118. O ye who believe! Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks: They will not fail to corrupt you. They only desire your ruin: Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths: What their hearts conceal is far worse. We have made plain to you the Signs, if ye have wisdom.

119. Ah! ye are those who love them, but they love you not,- though ye believe in the whole of the Book. When they meet you, they say, "We believe": But when they are alone, they bite off the very tips of their fingers at you in their rage. Say: "Perish in you rage; Allah knoweth well all the secrets of the heart."

120. If aught that is good befalls you, it grieves them; but if some misfortune overtakes you, they rejoice at it. But if ye are constant and do right, not the least harm will their cunning do to you; for Allah Compasseth round about all that they do.

121. Remember that morning Thou didst leave Thy household (early) to post the faithful at their stations for battle: And Allah heareth and knoweth all things:

122. Remember two of your parties Meditated cowardice; but Allah was their protector, and in Allah should the faithful (Ever) put their trust.

123. Allah had helped you at Badr, when ye were a contemptible little force; then fear Allah. thus May ye show your gratitude.

124. Remember thou saidst to the Faithful: "Is it not enough for you that Allah should help you with three thousand angels (Specially) sent down?

125. "Yea, - if ye remain firm, and act aright, even if the enemy should rush here on you in hot haste, your Lord would help you with five thousand angels Making a terrific onslaught.

126. Allah made it but a message of hope for you, and an assurance to your hearts: (in any case) there is no help except from Allah. The Exalted, the Wise:

127. That He might cut off a fringe of the Unbelievers or expose them to infamy, and they should then be turned back, frustrated of their purpose.

128. Not for thee, (but for Allah., is the decision: Whether He turn in mercy to them, or punish them; for they are indeed wrong-doers.

129. To Allah belongeth all that is in the heavens and on earth. He forgiveth whom He pleaseth and punisheth whom He pleaseth; but Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

130. O ye who believe! Devour not usury, doubled and multiplied; but fear Allah. that ye may (really) prosper.

131. Fear the Fire, which is repaired for those who reject Faith:

132. And obey Allah and the Messenger. that ye may obtain mercy.

133. Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a Garden whose width is that (of the whole) of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous,-

134. Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity, or in adversity; who restrain anger, and pardon (all) men;- for Allah loves those who do good;-

135. And those who, having done something to be ashamed of, or wronged their own souls, earnestly bring Allah to mind, and ask for forgiveness for their sins,- and who can forgive sins except Allah.- and are never obstinate in persisting knowingly in (the wrong) they have done.

136. For such the reward is forgiveness from their Lord, and Gardens with rivers flowing underneath,- an eternal dwelling: How excellent a recompense for those who work (and strive)!

137. Many were the Ways of Life that have passed away before you: travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who rejected Truth.

138. Here is a plain statement to men, a guidance and instruction to those who fear Allah.

139. So lose not heart, nor fall into despair: For ye must gain mastery if ye are true in Faith.

140. If a wound hath touched you, be sure a similar wound hath touched the others. Such days (of varying fortunes) We give to men and men by turns: that Allah may know those that believe, and that He may take to Himself from your ranks Martyr-witnesses (to Truth). And Allah loveth not those that do wrong.

141. Allah.s object also is to purge those that are true in Faith and to deprive of blessing Those that resist Faith.

142. Did ye think that ye would enter Heaven without Allah testing those of you who fought hard (In His Cause) and remained steadfast?

143. Ye did indeed wish for death before ye met him: Now ye have seen him with your own eyes, (And ye flinch!)

144. Muhammad is no more than an apostle: many Were the apostle that passed away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels? If any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah. but Allah (on the other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.

145. Nor can a soul die except by Allah.s leave, the term being fixed as by writing. If any do desire a reward in this life, We shall give it to him; and if any do desire a reward in the Hereafter, We shall give it to him. And swiftly shall We reward those that (serve us with) gratitude.


146. How many of the prophets fought (in Allah.s way), and with them (fought) Large bands of godly men? but they never lost heart if they met with disaster in Allah.s way, nor did they weaken (in will) nor give in. And Allah Loves those who are firm and steadfast.

147. All that they said was: "Our Lord! Forgive us our sins and anything We may have done that transgressed our duty: Establish our feet firmly, and help us against those that resist Faith."

148. And Allah gave them a reward in this world, and the excellent reward of the Hereafter. For Allah Loveth those who do good.

149. O ye who believe! If ye obey the Unbelievers, they will drive you back on your heels, and ye will turn back (from Faith) to your own loss.

150. Nay, Allah is your protector, and He is the best of helpers.

151. Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!

152. Allah did indeed fulfil His promise to you when ye with His permission Were about to annihilate your enemy,-until ye flinched and fell to disputing about the order, and disobeyed it after He brought you in sight (of the booty) which ye covet. Among you are some that hanker after this world and some that desire the Hereafter. Then did He divert you from your foes in order to test you but He forgave you: For Allah is full of grace to those who believe.

153. Behold! ye were climbing up the high ground, without even casting a side glance at any one, and the Messenger in your rear was calling you back. There did Allah give you one distress after another by way of requital, to teach you not to grieve for (the booty) that had escaped you and for (the ill) that had befallen you. For Allah is well aware of all that ye do.

154. After (the excitement) of the distress, He sent down calm on a band of you overcome with slumber, while another band was stirred to anxiety by their own feelings, Moved by wrong suspicions of Allah.suspicions due to ignorance. They said: "What affair is this of ours?" Say thou: "Indeed, this affair is wholly Allah.s." They hide in their minds what they dare not reveal to thee. They say (to themselves): "If we had had anything to do with this affair, We should not have been in the slaughter here." Say: "Even if you had remained in your homes, those for whom death was decreed would certainly have gone forth to the place of their death"; but (all this was) that Allah might test what is in your breasts and purge what is in your hearts. For Allah knoweth well the secrets of your hearts.

155. Those of you who turned back on the day the two hosts Met,-it was Satan who caused them to fail, because of some (evil) they had done. But Allah Has blotted out (their fault): For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Forbearing.

156. O ye who believe! Be not like the Unbelievers, who say of their brethren, when they are travelling through the Earth or engaged in fighting: "If they had stayed with us, they would not have died, or been slain." This that Allah may make it a cause of sighs and regrets in their hearts. It is Allah that gives Life and Death, and Allah sees well all that ye do.

157. And if ye are slain, or die, in the way of Allah, forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all they could amass.

158. And if ye die, or are slain, Lo! it is unto Allah that ye are brought together.

159. It is part of the Mercy of Allah that thou dost deal gently with them Wert thou severe or harsh-hearted, they would have broken away from about thee: so pass over (Their faults), and ask for ((Allah)'s) forgiveness for them; and consult them in affairs (of moment). Then, when thou hast Taken a decision put thy trust in Allah. For Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him).

160. If Allah helps you, none can overcome you: If He forsakes you, who is there, after that, that can help you? in Allah, then, Let believers put their trust.

161. No prophet could (ever) be false to his trust. If any person is so false, He shall, on the Day of Judgment, restore what he misappropriated; then shall every soul receive its due,- whatever it earned,- and none shall be dealt with unjustly.

162. Is the man who follows the good pleasure of Allah Like the man who draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and whose abode is in Hell?- A woeful refuge!

163. They are in varying gardens in the sight of Allah, and Allah sees well all that they do.

164. Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them an apostle from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of Allah, sanctifying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had been in manifest error.

165. What! When a single disaster smites you, although ye smote (your enemies) with one twice as great, do ye say?- "Whence is this?" Say (to them): "It is from yourselves: For Allah hath power over all things."

166. What ye suffered on the day the two armies Met, was with the leave of Allah, in order that He might test the believers,-

167. And the Hypocrites also. These were told: "Come, fight in the way of Allah, or (at least) drive (The foe from your city)." They said: "Had we known how to fight, we should certainly have followed you." They were that day nearer to Unbelief than to Faith, saying with their lips what was not in their hearts but Allah hath full knowledge of all they conceal.

168. (They are) the ones that say, (of their brethren slain), while they themselves sit (at ease): "If only they had listened to us they would not have been slain." Say: "Avert death from your own selves, if ye speak the truth."

169. Think not of those who are slain in Allah.s way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord;

170. They rejoice in the bounty provided by Allah. And with regard to those left behind, who have not yet joined them (in their bliss), the (Martyrs) glory in the fact that on them is no fear, nor have they (cause to) grieve.

171. They glory in the Grace and the bounty from Allah, and in the fact that Allah suffereth not the reward of the Faithful to be lost (in the least).

172. Of those who answered the call of Allah and the Messenger, even after being wounded, those who do right and refrain from wrong have a great reward;-

173. Men said to them: "A great army is gathering against you": And frightened them: But it (only) increased their Faith: They said: "For us Allah sufficeth, and He is the best disposer of affairs."

174. And they returned with Grace and bounty from Allah. no harm ever touched them: For they followed the good pleasure of Allah. And Allah is the Lord of bounties unbounded.

175. It is only the Evil One that suggests to you the fear of his votaries: Be ye not afraid of them, but fear Me, if ye have Faith.

176. Let not those grieve thee who rush headlong into Unbelief: Not the least harm will they do to Allah. Allah.s plan is that He will give them no portion in the Hereafter, but a severe punishment.

177. Those who purchase Unbelief at the price of faith,- not the least harm will they do to Allah, but they will have a grievous punishment.

178. Let not the Unbelievers think that our respite to them is good for themselves: We grant them respite that they may grow in their iniquity: But they will have a shameful punishment.

179. Allah will not leave the believers in the state in which ye are now, until He separates what is evil from what is good nor will He disclose to you the secrets of the Unseen. But He chooses of His Messenger. (For the purpose) whom He pleases. So believe in Allah. And His apostles: And if ye believe and do right, ye have a reward without measure.

180. And let not those who covetously withhold of the gifts which Allah Hath given them of His Grace, think that it is good for them: Nay, it will be the worse for them: soon shall the things which they covetously withheld be tied to their necks Like a twisted collar, on the Day of Judgment. To Allah belongs the heritage of the heavens and the earth; and Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.

181. Allah hath heard the taunt of those who say: "Truly, Allah is indigent and we are rich!"- We shall certainly record their word and (their act) of slaying the prophets in defiance of right, and We shall say: "Taste ye the penalty of the Scorching Fire!

182. "This is because of the (unrighteous deeds) which your hands sent on before ye: For Allah never harms those who serve Him."

183. They (also) said: "(Allah) took our promise not to believe in an apostle unless He showed us a sacrifice consumed by Fire (From heaven)." Say: "There came to you apostles before me, with clear Signs and even with what ye ask for: why then did ye slay them, if ye speak the truth?"

184. Then if they reject thee, so were rejected apostles before thee, who came with Clear Signs, Books of dark prophecies, and the Book of Enlightenment.

185. Every soul shall have a taste of death: And only on the Day of Judgment shall you be paid your full recompense. Only he who is saved far from the Fire and admitted to the Garden will have attained the object (of Life): For the life of this world is but goods and chattels of deception.

186. Ye shall certainly be tried and tested in your possessions and in your personal selves; and ye shall certainly Hear much that will grieve you, from those who received the Book before you and from those who worship many gods. But if ye persevere patiently, and guard against evil,-then that will be a determining factor in all affairs.

187. And remember Allah took a covenant from the People of the Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it; but they threw it away behind their backs, and purchased with it some miserable gain! And vile was the bargain they made!

188. Think not that those who exult in what they have brought about, and love to be praised for what they have not done,- think escape the penalty. For them is a penalty Grievous indeed.

189. To Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth; and Allah hath power over all things.

190. Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day,- there are indeed Signs for men of understanding,-

191. Men who celebrate the praises of Allah, standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and contemplate the (wonders of) creation in the heavens and the earth, (With the thought): "Our Lord! not for naught Hast Thou created (all) this! Glory to Thee! Give us salvation from the penalty of the Fire.
192. "Our Lord! any whom Thou dost admit to the Fire, Truly Thou coverest with shame, and never will wrong-doers Find any helpers!

193. "Our Lord! we have heard the call of one calling (Us) to Faith, 'Believe ye in the Lord,' and we have believed. Our Lord! Forgive us our sins, blot out from us our iniquities, and take to Thyself our souls in the company of the righteous.

194. "Our Lord! Grant us what Thou didst promise unto us through Thine apostles, and save us from shame on the Day of Judgment: For Thou never breakest Thy promise."

195. And their Lord hath accepted of them, and answered them: "Never will I suffer to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female: Ye are members, one of another: Those who have left their homes, or been driven out therefrom, or suffered harm in My Cause, or fought or been slain,- verily, I will blot out from them their iniquities, and admit them into Gardens with rivers flowing beneath;- A reward from the presence of Allah, and from His presence is the best of rewards."

196. Let not the strutting about of the Unbelievers through the land deceive thee:

197. Little is it for enjoyment: Their ultimate abode is Hell: what an evil bed (To lie on)!

198. On the other hand, for those who fear their Lord, are Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath; therein are they to dwell (for ever),- a gift from the presence of Allah. and that which is in the presence of Allah is the best (bliss) for the righteous.

199. And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book, those who believe in Allah, in the revelation to you, and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to Allah. They will not sell the Signs of Allah for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and Allah is swift in account.

200. O ye who believe! Persevere in patience and constancy; vie in such perseverance; strengthen each other; and fear Allah. that ye may prosper.


However, if you are trying to look for those literal sentences like "A human cannot do sajda to another human being " and if you feel that the real meaning is something else than the one provided by these translators post it here for the benefit of others. Unfortunately for farts like you the only real meaning of these Ayahs can ONLY come from haq-na-sahib. But than there is no translated version of Quran by the current or any previous Dai available today for the benefit of Muslims.

Smart
Posts: 1388
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Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#228

Unread post by Smart » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:37 pm

profastian wrote: Yeah i know I am ignorant
So finally the truth has dawned on you! The next important truth that needs to dawn on you is that you have been taken for a ride by your lord and master. By your own admission, it will take time, so with a little patience and lots of intellectual struggle you will get it.

Khuda tamne taufeeq ape. Ameen.

profastian
Posts: 1314
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Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#229

Unread post by profastian » Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:00 pm

@Aarif
Show me an Ayah, where is is categorically said, No prostration to anyone but Allah.

anajmi
Posts: 13511
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#230

Unread post by anajmi » Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:56 pm

041.037
YUSUFALI: Among His Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Do not prostrate to the sun and the moon, but prostrate to Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve.
PICKTHAL: And of His portents are the night and the day and the sun and the moon. Do not prostrate to the sun or the moon; but prostrate to Allah Who created them, if it is in truth Him Whom ye worship.
SHAKIR: And among His signs are the night and the day and the sun and the moon; do not prostrate to the sun nor to the moon; and prostrate to Allah Who created them, if Him it is that you serve.

The above ayah clearly says not to worship Allah's creation but worship Allah only. The Sun and the Moon are far more powerful than the Dai or anything else on earth. Without the Sun and the Moon, life on planet earth, as we know it, would not exist. The Sun and the Moon provide for every living creature on earth in equal measure. The Dai can't even support his own family. They live on the handout of other Bohras. When Allah has prohibited sajda to the Sun and Moon, do you think the Dai is more powerful than them? If anyone still prefers to do sajda to the Dai, then he is a mushrik, an idol worshipper.

profastian
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Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am

Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#231

Unread post by profastian » Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:10 am

anajmi wrote:041.037
YUSUFALI: Among His Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Do not prostrate to the sun and the moon, but prostrate to Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve.
PICKTHAL: And of His portents are the night and the day and the sun and the moon. Do not prostrate to the sun or the moon; but prostrate to Allah Who created them, if it is in truth Him Whom ye worship.
SHAKIR: And among His signs are the night and the day and the sun and the moon; do not prostrate to the sun nor to the moon; and prostrate to Allah Who created them, if Him it is that you serve.

The above ayah clearly says not to worship Allah's creation but worship Allah only. The Sun and the Moon are far more powerful than the Dai or anything else on earth. Without the Sun and the Moon, life on planet earth, as we know it, would not exist. The Sun and the Moon provide for every living creature on earth in equal measure. The Dai can't even support his own family. They live on the handout of other Bohras. When Allah has prohibited sajda to the Sun and Moon, do you think the Dai is more powerful than them? If anyone still prefers to do sajda to the Dai, then he is a mushrik, an idol worshipper.
Again that is your interpretation. I have a different one.
Give me an Ayah where it is explicitly mentioned, no prostration to any creation of Allah.

humble_servant_us
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Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#232

Unread post by humble_servant_us » Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:06 am

If Prophet SAW meant to appoint Imam after him then why did he npt say clearly "I appoint Ali as next Imam"
Why did he not make announce during his last Khutba? Even at Ghadeer he did not say i
Prophet(pbuh)- "Whomsover I am the Master, Ali is his Master"
There are no ahle bayt around today. All we have is despotic rulers like the Dai.
The Imam is alive and he is from the Ahlul-bait.
Can you show us how you determined this through your "stringent" ways? Incase you cannot, you better accept me as your Imam.
There is a science of hadis. It is called Ilm-e-Rijal.

Muslim First
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Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#233

Unread post by Muslim First » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:10 am

Prophet(pbuh)- "Whomsover I am the Master, Ali is his Master"
Why did he not say "I am your master now and Ali will be when I am gone"?
Why did he not appoint Ali as next leader during his last Khutba?

The Imam is alive and he is from the Ahlul-bait.
There are holes in his Sajrah, Even majority of shias do not accept him as real one.

BTW when is he going to announce Salaat/Namaaz for Aga Khanis?

humble_servant_us
Posts: 471
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Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#234

Unread post by humble_servant_us » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:10 am

Why did he not say "I am your master now and Ali will be when I am gone"?
Why did he not appoint Ali as next leader during his last Khutba?
I am sure if he would have said what you are saying, still you would have found some false reason of not accepting Ali(As) as the imam.

By the way for people of intelligence-"to whomsoever i am the master, ali(as) is his master" is in itself a complete unambiguous statement of clear guidance.
There are holes in his Sajrah, Even majority of shias do not accept him as real one.
Whose shajra are you talking about. The ahlul bait(as) (Imams) are from the lineage of prophet(pbuh) through Fatema(as)
BTW when is he going to announce Salaat/Namaaz for Aga Khanis?
I don't know what you mean. Aga khan is not our imam.

anajmi
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Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#235

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:44 am

profastian,
Again that is your interpretation. I have a different one.
I know you have a different one. That is why you are a mushrik, an idol worshipper. The majority of the Ummah including the smartest of the bohras and the prophet himself interpret this ayah as I mentioned.

anajmi
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Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#236

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:47 am

humble servant,

Now you are simply playing with words.
The Imam is alive and he is from the Ahlul-bait.
Have you seen this Imam? Has he been teaching anything to you?
There is a science of hadis. It is called Ilm-e-Rijal.
Yeah I know there is a science of hadis and what it is called. Is that the best you answer you could come up with for my question? "I have no clue" would've been a more honest answer!!

Aarif
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Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#237

Unread post by Aarif » Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:07 pm

79. It is not (possible) that a man, to whom is given the Book, and Wisdom, and the prophetic office, should say to people: "Be ye my worshippers rather than Allah.s": on the contrary (He would say) "Be ye worshippers of Him Who is truly the Cherisher of all: For ye have taught the Book and ye have studied it earnestly."

80. Nor would he instruct you to take angels and prophets for Lords and patrons. What! would he bid you to unbelief after ye have bowed your will (To Allah in Islam)?


PF,

What do you make out of these Ayahs? BTW do you know that prophet(pbuh) in Quran has been referred to as just a messenger of Allah. And he never encouraged people to worship him or do sajda to him. And if you will think for a moment you will realize that doing sajda to human beings breeds human worship. The prophet(pbuh) never wanted that. The Dai calls himselfs a Gulam of prophet but is freely propogating the false theory of "sajda tuhje wazib hein". If you look at abdes they give more importance to kadam boshi than namaz. If the Dai is willing to give kadam boshi exactly when Azaan is being recited for Namaz abdes will skip their namaz and go for kadam boshi. This is the result of Syedna's self glorification to an ultimate extent and brain washing of gullible abdes. This is against the basic tenets of Islam and Quran. And this makes bohras non-believers as far as Islam is concerned. I am not surprised when people like you come on this forum with these kind of funny theories that since there is no explicit line in Quran mentioning that you cannot do sajda to human being, you can do it. BTW there is nowhere in Quran explicit mention of Dai. Does that invalidate the entire existence of a Dai???

Muslim First
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Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#238

Unread post by Muslim First » Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:50 pm

I don't know what you mean. Aga khan is not our imam.
So who is your Imam? What is his name? Where does he live? If he is hiding then why? How does he guide you from his hideout?
I am sure if he would have said what you are saying, still you would have found some false reason of not accepting Ali(As) as the imam.
It is hard not to follow clear direction from Prophet SAW.
By the way for people of intelligence-"to whomsoever i am the master, ali(as) is his master" is in itself a complete unambiguous statement of clear guidance.
You mean to say Majority of Sahabas were dumb!!

And 88% of Ummah is dumb!!!!

BTW after Gadheer why was Hz Ali not treated as Prophet's deputy? Why did he not lead prayers in Prophets absence or during his sickness?

Why all Shia do not agree on one Imam?

Muslim First
Posts: 6893
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Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#239

Unread post by Muslim First » Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:55 pm

BTW there is nowhere in Quran explicit mention of Dai. Does that invalidate the entire existence of a Dai???
There is no explict mention of Imama also.

humble_servant_us
Posts: 471
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Re: Abdes -any bohra websites which impart any knowledge?

#240

Unread post by humble_servant_us » Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:04 am

So who is your Imam? What is his name? Where does he live? If he is hiding then why?
Our imam is the one who will establish justice and equality on the earth which will be filled with injustice and tyranny. He is alive and his guidance reaches us similar to the sun's rays which reach us when covered with clouds. By the will of allah(swt) he is in Occultation.
How does he guide you from his hideout?
Where is Shaytan. How does he misguide you. Why do you curse him when you do something wrong. If you can believe in existence of Shaytan a source of misguidance, why not believe in a Imam who is a source of Guidance
It is hard not to follow clear direction from Prophet SAW.
It is easy to follow clear direction from the prophet(pbuh), that is what we are doing. He said- "Whomsoever I am the master Ali(As) is his master".
You mean to say Majority of Sahabas were dumb!!
Some were actually very intelligent to twist and fabricate the hadis of prophet(pbuh).
And 88% of Ummah is dumb!!!!
Christianity out numbers Muslims. Are muslims dumb?
BTW after Gadheer why was Hz Ali not treated as Prophet's deputy? Why did he not lead prayers in Prophets absence or during his sickness?
How does this matter.
Why all Shia do not agree on one Imam?
All shias believe in Ali(as) as the successor of the prophet(pbuh). In the line of imams there are difference of opinions which has lead to division of sects in shiites.