Ejamaat control over bohras

[Regal]

Lets just keep it to ejamaat cards ppl. im sure needtobefair knows all this religious bs.

The cards are not used to track entry in to mosques, but they are used to keep track of other info eg. contact no., residence, taxes paid etc etc which other ppl here who have filled up the forms can tell you about.

because you officially performed the misaaq (the oath), you are a bohri. and its a must for a bohri to have these cards. if you want dont want to get these cards then (unfortunately) that means you have renounced your faith. and all you did to please the bohris ( 2 weddings etc) will go to waste.

[leila]

Leila,
I'm sorry, but i fail to understand how you can find me at fault here? i never did this because i wanted to, i was forced to. The bohra community is far from welcoming to outsiders unless and until one succumbs to what they say. This was the only way out for us get married without his family being harrassed. They make you sign unjust and unfair documents where you are forced to say yes to pledgeing even your last drop of blood to your Dai. Dont you find that against your faith? its against everybody's faith. No one can excercise this power over another human being.
I did not get onto this forum to have a debate on your religion. but i think its common sense that helps in differenciating right from wrong and no man living in the lap of luxury has the right to force anyone into giving him everything i have in the event of something going wrong in my marriage. Like he doesnt have enough already! I respect Islam as religion because its the only religion where only God exsists. No saints.. no one in between.No 40 million different versions of Him. Just one God. Thats a beauty of Islam. All religions preach tolerance and respect but i have never seen or felt that in the Bohri community. Mind you, i'm not talking of Islam at all.

I only came here to find out about the cards and had simple questions, since my husband and i have struggled enough to get where we are and want to continue being happy.Also, i dont think that "this guy must be not aware that is haraam to marry a idol worshipper" is right to be said, every Bohri house is plastered with your Dai's phtographs. whats the difference if i pray to sai baba(which i dont) and you to the Dai? Both are pretty wealthy and good at conning people into giving them their money.

Again, i want to make it clear that i have not meant too offend anyones sentiments. I came to get doubts clarfied, and Leila, instead of doing that you have just like that rest of the Bohris, treated me like an outsider and an outcast.

Thankyou to those who have tried to help out, i appreciate it.

forget about bohrism but i suggest you to come to islaam first please read Quraan(with translation) as soon as possible this will help you and your hubby to understand islaam.

[Humsafar]

needtobefiar, welcome to the forum and sorry for the bad reception - on this forum and in our community. You must ignore some members here who invariably bring the religious bludgeon to every discussion. Just do not respond to them. As for Bohras generally, they were not like this a generation ago, but under this regime they have become more Talibanized and consequently intolerant and insensitive. If you had married a reformist bohra, you would not have faced such difficulties. And would not have needed the blasted ejamat card either.

Be that as it may, regarding your question, ejamat card is the device of surveillance and control. It is being used to keep track of your "taxes" and payments. Also through it the jamaat has all your personal, financial details. And in the future it's going to evolve into some kind of a "smart" card which can keep track of your movements - your attendance to functions etc. Please do not, do not have this card made for yourself as far as you can get away with it. If they consider you non-bohra because of it then so be it. Actually, you should encourage your husband also not to have one - he is not religious anyway. He doesn't need the jamaat. The jamaat needs him - his money, that is. He seems to be rich, so he's in a position to join the jamaat on his own terms. The majority of Bohras do not have that option. All the best. Please do not give in without a fight.

Also, thank you for making a telling comparison between the Dai and Sai Baba. Coming from an outsider it hits home real hard. Hope the abdes (that is the orthodox bohras who call themselves abde sayedna, meaning slaves of sayenda) are paying attention.

Muslim First/ Liela, for crying out loud, quit throwing Islam at her. She is not interested. And as far as I can tell, she maybe more "islamic" than you guys. For a change you should read the Bhagvad Gita. It might do you some good.

[Biradar]

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[bohra_manus]

needtobefiar, welcome to the forum and sorry for the bad reception - on this forum and in our community. You must ignore some members here who invariably bring the religious bludgeon to every discussion. Just do not respond to them. As for Bohras generally, they were not like this a generation ago, but under this regime they have become more Talibanized and consequently intolerant and insensitive. If you had married a reformist bohra, you would not have faced such difficulties. And would not have needed the blasted ejamat card either.

Be that as it may, regarding your question, ejamat card is the device of surveillance and control. It is being used to keep track of your "taxes" and payments. Also through it the jamaat has all your personal, financial details. And in the future it's going to evolve into some kind of a "smart" card which can keep track of your movements - your attendance to functions etc. Please do not, do not have this card made for yourself as far as you can get away with it. If they consider you non-bohra because of it then so be it. Actually, you should encourage your husband also not to have one - he is not religious anyway. He doesn't need the jamaat. The jamaat needs him - his money, that is. He seems to be rich, so he's in a position to join the jamaat on his own terms. The majority of Bohras do not have that option. All the best. Please do not give in without a fight.

Also, thank you for making a telling comparison between the Dai and Sai Baba. Coming from an outsider it hits home real hard. Hope the abdes (that is the orthodox bohras who call themselves abde sayedna, meaning slaves of sayenda) are paying attention.

Muslim First/ Liela, for crying out loud, quit throwing Islam at her. She is not interested. And as far as I can tell, she maybe more "islamic" than you guys. For a change you should read the Bhagvad Gita. It might do you some good.

Well said Mr. Hamsafer.
Needtobefair,
Please ignore the tirade from people who don't know what they are doing.

[Biradar]

Dear needtobefair,

Please ignore the crazy fanatics. This is an open board and there is no shortage of people who want to tailbanize society along their narrow fanatical creeds. Just ignore them when they on-high pronounce your marriage invalid and other ridiculous things. Most bohras will treat you with respect, kindness and friendship. Most do not care if you have a ejammat card or not. Just live your life well and ethically.

Let me tell you my experience. I refused to fill the form needed to get the card. Sadly, my family members filled it for me (without my knowledge), put a picture on it and got me a card. When I got the card I promptly tore it apart and threw it into the garbage can, where it belongs. No one has bothered me since then. I get emails to update my information, but I just mark them as spam and trash them. As I never attend any programs organized by the community no one bothers me about this.

The card, as Humsafar puts it, is essentially a means of keeping control over the community members. They want to record how much you paid and when, which programs you attended, what your medical conditions are, and even things like if you have beard and how long it is (if you are a man, of course) or if you wear a rida and when, what kind of house you have, what paint, carpet is in it, etc. In fact, they even want you to tell them what type of toilet bowl you have! There is no limit to the control they want on your life. In some places (like Toronto) they want you to even tell them which program you will attend, fill up a form with your ejamaat ID. See http://www.torontojamat.com/Default.asp ... mentid=632 for details.

Every situation is different and it greatly varies where you live. As you live in India it may be harder for you to stay away from the goons. Here, in the US no one bothers me and just leaves me alone. It may not be the same for you, specially if your spouse still attends functions. If or when you have children things will get harder as there will be pressure to send them to madrassa to get indoctrinated.

Remember that bohras, in general, are nice and kind people. The kothar and mullahs have tried to turn them into chest-thumping fanatics, but still they retain decency and kindness. Perhaps it will soon change, but in my experience here in the US no bohra ever tells me about religion, even though they know I never attend. Best of luck and I hope you will find happiness and joy in your marriage and do not face too much trouble at the hands of the amils and mullahs.

[ozmujaheed]

leila get real how many Bohris in 21st century follow Shariat -e-Muhammad ?

Clearly this debate thousands of families will face in future especially in the west and just as a reminder see what fanatic Musmims end up doing

http://www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/peop ... 193dw.html

In this case a Muslim girl was dating a Hindu..by ther way the brother was utlimately jailed and the father fined.

[profastian]

I'm a Hindu. And yes, I did have the Misaaq. Nothing made sense i was just told to say Naam ( if remember correctly) whenever the priest told me to. That was it.
After that we had we had the bohri nikaah. Then a Hindu wedding ceremony.

Why the heck do u need the cards and why the heck does your husband need a card? He has already had it marrying a Hindu (no personal offense meant to you).

[needtobefair]

Thanks a ton to all of you for your unbiased and pratical advice and responses. Esp to Regal, Omabharti,Ozmujaheed,Muslim First,Humsafar,Bohra Manus and Biradar. My Husband and I knew right from the start that this wasnt going to an easy ride. And yes, there are alot of Bohris out there that i have interacted with that wonderful and beautiful people but are too afraid to fight against the shackles of the community. I do hope this movement of the progressives goes far and wide and more and more people out there start using their brains to realize that Allah has gifted them with so much and they dont have to live in constant fear of it being taken away by someone who places himself higher than God . If ever i can be of help with any information I would gladly do it.
Biradar - i have a question for you. You mentioned that your family used a picture of you and created a card for you. So, that means that my in laws can do the same. altho they do not have a pic of me in the rida but that can be morphed. i do hope they do not stoop to this level tho. But if they do, do that. Am i toast? coz they wouldnt even tell me if they do it. any idea if can i find out? Dont think the would give any correct info my mine interms of contact number, mail id etc. Anyway i can find out?

[ozmujaheed]

needtobefair...i wish you well and hope your married life overcomes these man made obstacles.

You giving credit to Allah for intelligence while you are a Hindu, hope Allah judges your good deeds. This is far greater deed than many Abdes who credit a human for their achievements.

I hope Abde and Kotahrs have not discouraged you from Islam ? If they have then may they pay the price !

Yes you can be of help, publicise your experiences within your society, if you do have courage report this matter to your politicians, write a media article, join the PDBs , shame and embarrass the Abdes.

[needtobefair]

ozmujaheed - i have always maintained that Islam is a beautiful religion but potrayed, misused and interpreted incorrectly to non-muslims. I have alot of devout muslim friends who are very close to me and not for one second have they behaved in a manner that talks of religious intolerance. In fact they are very respectful to other faiths.
As far as me giving credit to Allah while being a hindu, well..he is God and at the end of the day there is only one of Him, its just that we have different ways of reaching out to Him.. we are all going to same heaven.. there isnt going to be a separate one for you and me and the orthos ( with or without their special chittis). its all the same

[profastian]

ozmujaheed - i have always maintained that Islam is a beautiful religion but potrayed, misused and interpreted incorrectly to non-muslims. I have alot of devout muslim friends who are very close to me and not for one second have they behaved in a manner that talks of religious intolerance. In fact they are very respectful to other faiths.
As far as me giving credit to Allah while being a hindu, well..he is God and at the end of the day there is only one of Him, its just that we have different ways of reaching out to Him.. we are all going to same heaven.. there isnt going to be a separate one for you and me and the orthos ( with or without their special chittis). its all the same

So now she can make fun of our religious rights and we are not supposed to abuse here. Wake up sister, you are not going to heaven( not because you are a hindu but a awful hypocrite). Same goes for the proggies.

[needtobefair]

profastian - I guess niceness isnt something you understand unless its attached with an ultimatum or something like If --> then--> else you'll be thrown out. I commended your faith. I said its a beautiful religion. Dont you agree with that? dont you know how to appreciate your own faith? Also, what religious rights have i spoken of to offend you? Please stop provoking with your nastiness. I have gone thru this forum and noticed that whenever there has been a constructive debate, you guys just enter the conversation and become all agressive with your not needed comments. Even if you have to disagree.. cant it be done with some amount of refinement and dignity? Seriously profastian..if you feel that the ways of your community are correct and the progressives are making a mistake in wanting a change, try a mature approach of convncing and keep an open mind to seeing another persons point of view. You too can go wrong you know.. think about it.

[Regal]

what abuse? lol she gave credit to islam at least, where you spit on every other sect/religion.

lol and dont go calling ur ticket to heaven a religious right. it is highly prohibited in islam to sell these tickets.

profastian, you are confirming what she said.

i have always maintained that Islam is a beautiful religion but potrayed, misused and interpreted incorrectly to non-muslims

[Humsafar]

If ever i can be of help with any information I would gladly do it.

Yes, you can be of great help. As an outsider who has the unique privilige of looking in, you have a fresh and unbiased perspective. Please use this Forum to expose the "wrongs" you come across. The things that we reformists wirte about here are generally dissmissed as biased and partisan. But with you, its going to be different. You have no axe to grind as such, so your information will have more credibiilty. Please do write whenever you can. Hope your ejmaat card troubles are soon over, and you have a peaceful and loving family life.