sajda for nabi?

[profastian]

You didnt answer my question. If all the Quran was revealed 'literally' on Laylat-al-Qadr.
What about the other incidents of the Wahye?

Finally, an intelligent question from our resident jackass!

Is this a contradiction in the Quran? On the one it states that it came down on Layla al-Qadr and, on the other hand, it states that it was revealed in parts.

There are traditions that report that the Quran descended on Layat al-Qadr from Lawh-e-Mahfuz to Bayt al-Izza. To reconcile the tradition with the Quran 97:1, Bayt al-Izza is equated to the heart of the Prophet. That means that the Prophet's whole being was thenceforth imbued with the whole of the Quran. His behavior attests to this fact even before the entire Quran was uttered by him for the benefit of mankind over a period of 23 years.

Another issue is reconciliation of the report that JIbreel brought the revelations to Prophet and the report that Prophet received the revelation in a Wahy, an intuitive inspiration. In Bohra explanations of the Quran, angels and jinns are considered metaphorical. Wahy is an intuition which bubbles over from within the consciousness. Prophet was guided by his consciousness to reveal the Quran when he recognized the occasions for those revelations. Whether Prophet himself was aware of the whole Quran that was within his consciousness is difficult to say.

You will get a similar explanation from your sabaq ustaad. So get it and tell us what you learned from him.

So in short you have no idea

[profastian]

I am not questioning the validity of the Quran at all.
What I am saying is that Quran is valid because the Prophet said so. There is no other way to prove to validity of the Quran.
The validity of the prophet, as I said earlier, is Ilm. The prophet had all the answers. If he didn't have any, then everything becomes invalid.

Ullu ka patha,

Who is greater, Prophet or Allah? Prophet has said that Quran is from Allah and it is Allah's word. Do you agree with the Prophet? Why?

Muslims look for evidence that 'Quran is Allah' s word' from the Quran itself. Allah does not say 'if you do not believe that Quran is from Allah, go and ask Muhammad. He will confirm it for you." No. Quran offers other arguments for it being from Allah.

Muslims always say that they follow the Quran. They seek clarification from Sunnah. If they contradict, Quran takes the authority. That is why it is always Quran and Sunnah, not the other way around.

If Prophet is his own authority because of his ilm, we may ask who or what is the source of his ilm. If it is Muhammad himself, then you might as well start worshiping Muhammad. Is that what you do with the Dai, Jaahil?

Again you didn't answer my question? how do you that Quran is a valid book of Allah(if not from the Prophet). How do you verify that the prophet did not concoct it all himself.

[profastian]

Quran offers other arguments for it being from Allah.

Ok. give me "some" of the arguments.

[Humsafar]

Profastian, just want to repeat my question:

"Forget the Prophet and the Quran for a moment. Let's talk about the Dai. Where does he derives his authority from? If you say it is the ilm then the Prophet's ilm is evident in the Quran. Where is the evidence of Dai's ilm?"

[profastian]

Profastian, just want to repeat my question:

"Forget the Prophet and the Quran for a moment. Let's talk about the Dai. Where does he derives his authority from? If you say it is the ilm then the Prophet's ilm is evident in the Quran. Where is the evidence of Dai's ilm?"

Syedna recently completed some of the Rasail, that Syedna Taher Saifuddin had left incomplete. You will find your evidence their.
Go to any Waaz of Syedna(especially during Moharram and ZIkra), you will find your evidence there.

[Aarif]

I have a copy of this munajaat. It is a waseela penned for Laylat al-Qadr. It is in Arabic with explanatory translation in Lisaan-e-Daawat.

It is wholly a waseela and an entreaty to Allah. It is baseless to level a charge of shirk or it being unIslamic against the munajaat. It is a model of succinct and beautiful Arabic composition.

I do not agree with this. Many parts of the Munajaat were read in lisaane-dawat describing the greatness of the Dai by himself and also asking bohras to pray for his long life in the night of Lai-Latul Qadr. It did cover other things like Imamat etc. with Dai's tadka on it but I don't remember that anymore. If you are saying that it only talked about Allah than maybe we are talking about two different things. Because I was personally present there when this was recited by the Janaab himself.

[porus]

Syedna recently completed some of the Rasail, that Syedna Taher Saifuddin had left incomplete. You will find your evidence their.
Go to any Waaz of Syedna(especially during Moharram and ZIkra), you will find your evidence there.

So in short you have no idea

[Humsafar]

Profastian,
The billions of Muslims down the ages who accepted the Prophet's authority did not /could not go to his sermons. They accepted it from the Quran. Similarly, not everybody can attend Dai's waez to understand and accept his authority. Can we have his sermons and his Rasail published and publicly available?

Now, it is understandable that publishing such a magnum opus may take time, so for our benefit can you give us the gist of the Dai's teachings? I'm particularly interested in those aspects which allow for his slaves to do sajada to him. I'm interested in this because even the Prophet if he wanted could have prescribed such a thing for himself in his "concocted" Quran but obviously he did not do so. But our Dai allows it, so one can only conclude that he is superior to the Prophet. And honestly and with an open mind I would accept him as such if only his teachings and Rasail were publicly available.

Also, you've to understand that the people who accept the "concocted" Quran are called the followers of Islam. And since the "concocted" Rasail by the Dais contradicts the "concocted" Quran at such fundamental levels, the people who accept it cannot be called the followers of Islam. They are the followers of a private cult.

[porus]

I have a copy of this munajaat. It is a waseela penned for Laylat al-Qadr. It is in Arabic with explanatory translation in Lisaan-e-Daawat.

It is wholly a waseela and an entreaty to Allah. It is baseless to level a charge of shirk or it being unIslamic against the munajaat. It is a model of succinct and beautiful Arabic composition.

I do not agree with this. Many parts of the Munajaat were read in lisaane-dawat describing the greatness of the Dai by himself and also asking bohras to pray for his long life in the night of Lai-Latul Qadr. It did cover other things like Imamat etc. with Dai's tadka on it but I don't remember that anymore. If you are saying that it only talked about Allah than maybe we are talking about two different things. Because I was personally present there when this was recited by the Janaab himself.

I did not say it talked only about Allah. It is a waseela which invoked Panjatan, Karbala, Imams and Duaat. I could not find any shirk in it. You know I am always on the lookout for that sort of thing. Of course, you may have heard the Dai asking you to pray for his long life. But that is not in the munajaat.

If you can read lisan-e-daawat, send me your email address in a private message on this board. I have a pdf version that I can send you.

[Aarif]

You know I am always on the lookout for that sort of thing.

Exactly!! me too and that is why I remembered it. I will send you private message.

Thanks

[anajmi]

Humsafar,

I can guarantee that you will not hear anything about what the Dai teaches in the sabak from profastian. That is because, he did it once before when he was new to this board and the message from the Dai was shredded to bits. Remember the time when he was trying to teach us mathematics that the Dai taught him? He knows better now. The abde idiots have no ground to stand on and that is why they keep dancing as is evident from his responses.

[Humsafar]

anajmi, I agree. But the abdes have to understand that they can either accept the teachings of the Quran or the teachings of the Dai. They can't accept both and still claim to be Muslims, must less mumineens.

[Humsafar]

Profastian, can you pls make the teachings and Rasial of Sayedna Bruhanuddin public? What is the point of keeping this knowledge private and hidden when you can use it to silence the critics of Dawat. So pls make it public.

Also, I'm still waiting for you to explain the Dai's "tangential" interpretation on sajda to humans.

[Conscíous]

I can guarantee that you will not hear anything about what the Dai teaches in the sabak from profastian.

right on the money