Bohri Ramadan VS Real Ramadan

[ozmujaheednumber2]

I have been amazed since a long time that since every single muslim watches the moon to start Ramadan then why only the Tayyebi Bohris start Ramadan late? Even Rasulilah (S.A.W) saw the moon as it is a signal from Allah to stat Ramadan but why only Bohris rely on the inaccurate Misri/Hijri Calender? This is clearly Bidat (Bi'dah) and i think Bohris are swaying away from the true essence of Islam and starting their own religeon becoming Mushriks and they call other Muslims mushrik think again for yourselves who are the badati mushriks and who follow the real Islam.

If you have any ideas or a debate against my view then please do leave a comment. But i am 100% sure that Ramadan has to be started from sighting the moon as this is a Islamic tradition and Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammed.

[porus]

.. why only the Tayyebi Bohris start Ramadan late?...

ozmujaheednumber2?

Does being in Oz have an up-side-down effect on the brain? I wonder.

[student]

I have been amazed since a long time that since every single muslim watches the moon to start Ramadan then why only the Tayyebi Bohris start Ramadan late? Even Rasulilah (S.A.W) saw the moon as it is a signal from Allah to stat Ramadan but why only Bohris rely on the inaccurate Misri/Hijri Calender? This is clearly Bidat (Bi'dah) and i think Bohris are swaying away from the true essence of Islam and starting their own religeon becoming Mushriks and they call other Muslims mushrik think again for yourselves who are the badati mushriks and who follow the real Islam.

If you have any ideas or a debate against my view then please do leave a comment. But i am 100% sure that Ramadan has to be started from sighting the moon as this is a Islamic tradition and Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammed.

Are you Drunk?

[Muslim First]

Here is my edited response patterned after one of porus's response.

Please spare us oz. No one is interested in this. Start Ramadan wherever and whenever you like. There is no harm in that (to use the hackneyed preaching phrase).

But Bohras will follow their Imams and dais. Period. None of your scholars or Prophet will change that.

[ozmujaheednumber2]

Sorry my mistake i meant "EARLY" so now answer me

[stranger]

Moron ozmujaheednumber2 ,

Bohras use Hijri Lunar calendar which was established and published during the Faatimid rule in Egypt in the second half of 4th century AH/10th century AD. Before that the Imaam used to announce months and festivals verbally among his followers. The system of calculating months and days began right from the first prophet of Islam, Aadam (as) and that knowledge continued from one prophet to another till the last prophet of Islaam, Mohammad ul-Mustafaa (saws) who came with the final message which also included how to calculate months and days. This thing got transferred from tongue to chest into the holy Faatimi Imaams. The Bohra calendar has fixed number of days of each month based on the Lunar leap year (kabeesah) formula. An Bohra year has 355 days and in every 30 years 11 extra days are added i.e. in the span of 30 years; an extra day is added 11 times in different years in the last month of Zul Hijjah making it 30 days, which has usually 29 days. All odd months have 30 days and all even months have 29 days. Therefore accordingly, the month of Ramazaan being an odd month always consists of 30 days

This has been already discussed under :-
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=5338

[ozmujaheednumber2]

You are the moron following the wrong path.

[SBM]

Br. Stranger
Thanks for explanation.This explains why Ramadan is always 30 days, it is similar to Jewish calendar which also adds 11 days per year Do you believe this year it seems that Bohras may have mis-calculated the beginning of Ramadan since according to the NASA, the new moon could not have been visible on Saturday and entire Muslim World started Ramadan on Monday

[porus]

Br. Stranger
Thanks for explanation.This explains why Ramadan is always 30 days, it is similar to Jewish calendar which also adds 11 days per year Do you believe this year it seems that Bohras may have mis-calculated the beginning of Ramadan since according to the NASA, the new moon could not have been visible on Saturday and entire Muslim World started Ramadan on Monday

If the new moon occurs during daylight times, it may not be visible to the naked eye unless there is a total solar eclipse at the same time, if then. Misri calendar depends on the calculated new moon and the new month will start the day following its occurrence. The new moon occurred on July 30 sometime in the afternoon depending on where you are in the USA. Bohras started Ramadan correctly on 31 July. Also, moon is not always visible even on the night of the new moon. It may take a day or two after the new moon for the crescent to become visible.

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... dar#p16187

[stranger]

You are the moron following the wrong path.

Moron,
Go and Read :- ''The astronomical calculations and ramadan'' by Zulfikar Ali Shah.

This book shatters the myth that naked-eye sighting of the new moon and completing thirty days in the case of weather-related or other obscurities are the only two valid methods of determining the month of Ramadan. The author explains that certainty, not actual sighting, is the real objective of the Shari‘ah and that the Qur’an does not mandate physical sighting. A careful analysis shows that those hadiths that seemingly require sighting actually require certainty. The assertion that all Muslim scholars prohibit the use of astronomical calculations, both in affirming or negating the month of Ramadan, is not correct. As calculation is now more accurate than naked-eye sighting, due to certain astronomical and scientific advancements, the use of calculation is the closest to the real objective of the Shari‘ah and to the spirit of the hadiths.

Dr. Zulfiqar Ali Shah earned his B.A. (Hons) and M.A. (Hons) in usul al-din (the fundamentals of the Islamic religion) from the International Islamic University Islamabad, Pakistan, and his ,Ph.D. in comparative religions from the University of Wales ,UK. He has taught at the International Islamic University .the University of Wales, the University of North Florida, St Thomas University, and Florida Community College; served as religiousdirectorof various Muslim communities in the United States; and been the national president of the Shari¢ah Scholars Association of North America, the Islamic Circle of North America, and several other Muslim organizations Currently, Dr. Shah is executive director of the Fiqh Council of North America and religious director of the Islamic Society.

[stranger]

Br. Stranger
Thanks for explanation.This explains why Ramadan is always 30 days, it is similar to Jewish calendar which also adds 11 days per year Do you believe this year it seems that Bohras may have mis-calculated the beginning of Ramadan since according to the NASA, the new moon could not have been visible on Saturday and entire Muslim World started Ramadan on Monday

you are welcome Oma and I believe Porus has aptly replied to your query.

[SBM]

Dr. Shah is executive director of the Fiqh Council of North America and religious director of the Islamic Society.

Fiqh Council does follow the calculation to declare Ramadan and Eid days in advance. Many of the ISNA's Mosques in USA follow Fiqh Council's directive
http://fiqhcouncil.org/

[Muslim First]

by stranger on Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:45 am
Moron ozmujaheednumber2 ,

Bohras use Hijri Lunar calendar which was established and published during the Faatimid rule in Egypt in the second half of 4th century AH/10th century AD. Before that the Imaam used to announce months and festivals verbally among his followers. The system of calculating months and days began right from the first prophet of Islam, Aadam (as) and that knowledge continued from one prophet to another till the last prophet of Islaam, Mohammad ul-Mustafaa (saws) who came with the final message which also included how to calculate months and days. This thing got transferred from tongue to chest into the holy Faatimi Imaams. The Bohra calendar has fixed number of days of each month based on the Lunar leap year (kabeesah) formula. An Bohra year has 355 days and in every 30 years 11 extra days are added i.e. in the span of 30 years; an extra day is added 11 times in different years in the last month of Zul Hijjah making it 30 days, which has usually 29 days. All odd months have 30 days and all even months have 29 days. Therefore accordingly, the month of Ramazaan being an odd month always consists of 30 days

This has been already discussed under :-
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5338

Moron ozmujaheednumber2 ,

At a Boy Br Stranger, Nice thing to say especially in this holy month.

The system of calculating months and days began right from the first prophet of Islam, Aadam (as) and that knowledge continued from one prophet to another till the last prophet of Islaam, Mohammad ul-Mustafaa (saws) who came with the final message which also included how to calculate months and days.

How do you know this that Hz Adam knew how to calculate beginning of Lunar months? Do you have book written by him? And if Prophet knew how to calculate months than why this Prophetic command “fast by sighting it”.( http://fiqhcouncil.org/node/46 )
He could have asked your real Prophet Hz Ali to write down calculation method and we would not have this twice a year fight about beginning of Ramadan and Hajj.

This thing got transferred from tongue to chest into the holy Faatimi Imaams.

Is it like Noor of Allah or Noor of Ali magically transferred to new Imam and How does Dai find this since your Imam is Hiding for a long time? It must be new messaging device called “Ilham”.

The Bohra calendar has fixed number of days of each month based on the Lunar leap year (kabeesah) formula. An Bohra year has 355 days and in every 30 years 11 extra days are added i.e. in the span of 30 years; an extra day is added 11 times in different years in the last month of Zul Hijjah making it 30 days, which has usually 29 days. All odd months have 30 days and all even months have 29 days. Therefore accordingly, the month of Ramazaan being an odd month always consists of 30 days

And despite that you are usually one day ahead.
For your information see this visibility chart for Sunday July 31st, 2011 ( http://moonsighting.com/ ).
You will notice part of USA located in gray and sky colour bend that means somebody can see the moon if sighting conditions are right. Please notice that in India you cannot sight moon on July 31, so they probably begin fast on Tuesday. So DB Ramadan is 2 days ahead of “Ola Musalmaan”?
So fiqh council bases their guidance on certainty of moon sighting. Despite that we have few Masajid here in New England following a Shura council which requires actual sighting.
Wasalaam brother and for the sake of Allah don’t call somebody Moron. He is liable to call you Moron as well.

[BlackSaya]

You are the moron following the wrong path.

Moron,
Go and Read :- ''The astronomical calculations and ramadan'' by Zulfikar Ali Shah.

This book shatters the myth that naked-eye sighting of the new moon and completing thirty days in the case of weather-related or other obscurities are the only two valid methods of determining the month of Ramadan. The author explains that certainty, not actual sighting, is the real objective of the Shari‘ah and that the Qur’an does not mandate physical sighting. A careful analysis shows that those hadiths that seemingly require sighting actually require certainty. The assertion that all Muslim scholars prohibit the use of astronomical calculations, both in affirming or negating the month of Ramadan, is not correct. As calculation is now more accurate than naked-eye sighting, due to certain astronomical and scientific advancements, the use of calculation is the closest to the real objective of the Shari‘ah and to the spirit of the hadiths.

Dr. Zulfiqar Ali Shah earned his B.A. (Hons) and M.A. (Hons) in usul al-din (the fundamentals of the Islamic religion) from the International Islamic University Islamabad, Pakistan, and his ,Ph.D. in comparative religions from the University of Wales ,UK. He has taught at the International Islamic University .the University of Wales, the University of North Florida, St Thomas University, and Florida Community College; served as religiousdirectorof various Muslim communities in the United States; and been the national president of the Shari¢ah Scholars Association of North America, the Islamic Circle of North America, and several other Muslim organizations Currently, Dr. Shah is executive director of the Fiqh Council of North America and religious director of the Islamic Society.

Yes, and unfortunately your "Misri" calender still does not know simple math....so tell me how from calculations could Ramadan fall on the 31st?

[ozmujaheed]

Ozm2 welcome ! Are you from Australia ?

Others I am still around !

[SAJJAD]

BOHRI VERSION OF RAMADAN!

Plastic na urta safra. Jagah na roj lafra / Andar bayaan chaalu. Bahar masalawala aalu / Burhanuddin ane ena baap ni bay rakaat namaz /ane ena karam Ane Ehsaan ni thaai zikar . Thaal ni rahe fikar / Iftaari ma cha ane tamar. Bhareli rida ma patli patli kamar / Padhare Surat thi Mulla Bohrio na Khisa Khaali Karwa. Har bija divas chappal gayab /GET READY FOR SLAUGHTER /

[anajmi]

[student]

BOHRI VERSION OF RAMADAN!

Plastic na urta safra. Jagah na roj lafra / Andar bayaan chaalu. Bahar masalawala aalu / Burhanuddin ane ena baap ni bay rakaat namaz /ane ena karam Ane Ehsaan ni thaai zikar . Thaal ni rahe fikar / Iftaari ma cha ane tamar. Bhareli rida ma patli patli kamar / Padhare Surat thi Mulla Bohrio na Khisa Khaali Karwa. Har bija divas chappal gayab /GET READY FOR SLAUGHTER /

I am glad that people like you are kicked out of dawaat.Alhumdollilah