Lets break free from superstitions / misconceptions

[phorendude]

While this forum is a debate platform for abdes vs. progs, why not we open up on various superstitions / misconceptions that prevail in the community?

Let me begin with a simple one..
1. Eating fish with dairy products causes skin ailments.
This is false.

2. Placing of objects like metal frame of eyes , or other objects depicting Various body parts at various mazaars helps cure them.
This is absolutely crap.

go on people add more to these..

[ghulam muhammed]

Eating fish with dairy products causes skin ailments.

Fish is a very good diet for the brain, hence eating fish would awaken the dumb abdes mental calibre which is dead by the 24x7 dose of the dalda laced 2 kharas 2 mithas cooked by the U.P. ka bhatiyaras. Hence restrict the abdes from eating fish, firstly by the above mentioned argument and secondly by prohibiting them from eating 'mareli macchi'. It is obviously difficult to get 'zinda macchi' easily hence the fish eating can be drastically reduced by issuing such fatwas thereby blocking the abdes 'Thinking' abilities paving the way for kothar's manipulative practices.

[Doctor]

While this forum is a debate platform for abdes vs. progs, why not we open up on various superstitions / misconceptions that prevail in the community?

Let me begin with a simple one..
1. Eating fish with dairy products causes skin ailments.
This is false.

2. Placing of objects like metal frame of eyes , or other objects depicting Various body parts at various mazaars helps cure them.
This is absolutely crap.

go on people add more to these..

Dear phorendude,

Thanks for bringging this apt and important issue up.

I sincerely wish leaders of both DB Shabab and DB Youth must educate their listners on superstitions.

Also many incorrect "rasam" have cropped up in our community, that leads to wastage of money. Leaders must take initiative to stop them. Some of these incorrect or anti-islamic "rasam" are:

1. Throwing more than two time party/jaman for marriage. Per Prophet Mohammed (a): offering more than two time party/jaman for marriage is disallowed.

2. Su-aawar - The original "rasam" is, when a woman is pregnant then a group of seven ladies who have passed the age of MC will come to house of pregnant lady and will pray that may his kid do not get birth in 8th month (as that month has effect of saturn (Shani)). Now people have left that original "rasam" and instead of seven old ladies they invite big jamat of ladies, and after offering them food, also give them gift! - This is waste of money and leaders must motivate people to adhere to original "rasam" only.

3. When someone dies, the "sogwari" allowed is of only three days. People incorrectly, on their own personal whims and fancies keep "sogwari" of 3 months, 6months, 9months...12months! In between if Eid-ul-fitr comes then people will come to kith/kins of the dead and will remember how good the person was and the enviornment becomes as if that person died today. These are bad practices.

4. Have to say much on Id'dat, I am facing time constraints. But will reply to Omabharti post on subject of Id'dat, some time in future, Inshallah.

5. As per DB faith, 'murda" fish are haram - this is command of Imam. Ghulam Mohammed arguments are not acceptable becasue as per DB faith Imam is errorless.

6. Mosques and mazhars must not be decorated, this is waste of money. The sawab in namaz offered in London/Dubai/Bandra mosque is same as that offered in a non-beautifed village mosque.

Thanks,

Doctor

[anajmi]

as per DB faith Imam is errorless.

Then how come he ended up appointing a corrupt Dai?

[Doctor]

as per DB faith Imam is errorless.

Then how come he ended up appointing a corrupt Dai?

He has not appointed a corrupt Dai.

[anajmi]

Then who appointed him? Did your Imam go into hiding without appointing a successor? Did he get tired of you people and run?

[Doctor]

Then who appointed him?

People.

Did your Imam go into hiding without appointing a successor? Did he get tired of you people and run?

Also ask above to all Prophets who went to seclusions, including Prophet Mohammed (a) who kept secret his identity for 2/3 of his life.

[anajmi]

Prophets didn't go into seclusion. Dawoodi Bohra religion's teachings are a corruption of true Islam and these fantasies are not based upon the teachings of the Quran or the prophet (saw).

[Doctor]

Dear phorendude,

Thanks for bringging this apt and important issue up.

I sincerely wish leaders of both DB Shabab and DB Youth must educate their listners on superstitions.

Also many incorrect "rasam" have cropped up in our community, that leads to wastage of money. Leaders must take initiative to stop them. Some of these incorrect or anti-islamic "rasam" are:

1. Throwing more than two time party/jaman for marriage. Per Prophet Mohammed (a): offering more than two time party/jaman for marriage is disallowed.

2. Su-aawar - The original "rasam" is, when a woman is pregnant then a group of seven ladies who have passed the age of MC will come to house of pregnant lady and will pray that may his kid do not get birth in 8th month (as that month has effect of saturn (Shani)). Now people have left that original "rasam" and instead of seven old ladies they invite big jamat of ladies, and after offering them food, also give them gift! - This is waste of money and leaders must motivate people to adhere to original "rasam" only.

3. When someone dies, the "sogwari" allowed is of only three days. People incorrectly, on their own personal whims and fancies keep "sogwari" of 3 months, 6months, 9months...12months! In between if Eid-ul-fitr comes then people will come to kith/kins of the dead and will remember how good the person was and the enviornment becomes as if that person died today. These are bad practices.

4. Have to say much on Id'dat, I am facing time constraints. But will reply to Omabharti post on subject of Id'dat, some time in future, Inshallah.

5. As per DB faith, 'murda" fish are haram - this is command of Imam. Ghulam Mohammed arguments are not acceptable becasue as per DB faith Imam is errorless.

6. Mosques and mazhars must not be decorated, this is waste of money. The sawab in namaz offered in London/Dubai/Bandra mosque is same as that offered in a non-beautifed village mosque.

Thanks,

Doctor

Dear Anajmi,

This topic started by Phorendude is very important. Lets not derail it further. Lets stick within arena of Topic.

Thanks for your cooperation.

[anajmi]

5. As per DB faith, 'murda" fish are haram - this is command of Imam. Ghulam Mohammed arguments are not acceptable becasue as per DB faith Imam is errorless.

Which Imam? Can you please give a reference?

2. Su-aawar - The original "rasam" is, when a woman is pregnant then a group of seven ladies who have passed the age of MC will come to house of pregnant lady and will pray that may his kid do not get birth in 8th month (as that month has effect of saturn (Shani)).

This is as per the teachings of which Imam? Please provide references.

[Doctor]

5. As per DB faith, 'murda" fish are haram - this is command of Imam. Ghulam Mohammed arguments are not acceptable becasue as per DB faith Imam is errorless.

Which Imam? Can you please give a reference? Imam Moiz (a.s.)

2. Su-aawar - The original "rasam" is, when a woman is pregnant then a group of seven ladies who have passed the age of MC will come to house of pregnant lady and will pray that may his kid do not get birth in 8th month (as that month has effect of saturn (Shani)).

This is as per the teachings of which Imam? Please provide references. Who told you this "rasam" was ordered by Imam?

[anajmi]

Can you please give a reference about the command of Imam Moiz? Was his command based upon the Quran or did he get a new revelation?

Who told you this "rasam" was ordered by Imam?

So then we can dismiss this rasam as an innovation not sanctioned by any Imam.

[Doctor]

Can you please give a reference about the command of Imam Moiz? Was his command based upon the Quran or did he get a new revelation?

Who told you this "rasam" was ordered by Imam?

So then we can dismiss this rasam as an innovation not sanctioned by any Imam.

As per DB faith, all what Imam does is only per Quran.

Why have Sunni not yet dismissed all innovative "rasam"? Example) during marriage all sects of Sunni's follow certain "rasam", functions in their marriages doesn't begin and end with few minutes ceremony by 'kazi'.

[anajmi]

As per DB faith, all what Imam does is only per Quran.

So it should be easy for you to point out which ayah of the Quran was used by Imam Moiz to give the command about the Murda fish right? Unless the Imam has chosen not to share that information with you.

I am not responsible for what all sunnis do. I have dismissed these rasams as innovation.

[Doctor]

As per DB faith, all what Imam does is only per Quran.

So it should be easy for you to point out which ayah of the Quran was used by Imam Moiz to give the command about the Murda fish right? Unless the Imam has chosen not to share that information with you.

My knowledge is absolutely certain but very-very-very limited. I don't know answer to your above question. Others more knowledgeable than me in matter of DB faith can help you. With certainity I can say: DB faith is = all what Imam does is only per Quran.

I am not responsible for what all sunnis do. I have dismissed these rasams as innovation.

Why do you wear western outfits, they are innovations of Christians? Why are you not wearing outfits similar to Prophet Mohammed (a)? So to be ceratin that you are strictly following of "rasam" of Prophet Mohammed (a) and not Christians?

[anajmi]

With certainity I can say: DB faith is = all what Imam does is only per Quran.

With the same amount of certaintly, past and present doings in the Dawoodi Bohra community, and the actions of the clergy, I can say that DB faith is a corruption of Islam and has nothing to do with Quran. DBs today are embroiled in shirk.

Why do you wear western outfits, they are innovations of Christians? Why are you not wearing outfits similar to Prophet Mohammed (a)? So to be ceratin that you are strictly following of "rasam" of Prophet Mohammed (a) and not Christians?

Do you understand the difference between "rasam" and the act of choosing modest clothes?

[londonwala]

Going back to the original topic:
1. Paanch mangal no mahino; If there are 5 Tuesdays in a month this is considered a sign of bad luck. Bohras take out extra sadaqa and nazral maqam for protection. If anything bad happens in that month then it is blamed on the fact that it is a 5 Tuesday month.
2. Viewing the moon. It is considered good to view the new moon on pehli raat but bad to view the moon on biji raat.
3. Solar and lunar eclipses; during an eclipse, bohras are instructed to stay indoors, not observe the eclipse, pray constantly, not eat, not drink nor do any fun thing.

[Muslim First]

Doctor wrote
Dear Anajmi,
This topic started by Phorendude is very important. Lets not derail it further. Lets stick within arena of Topic.
Thanks for your cooperation.

Doctor
do you know derail started from this quote by you

5. As per DB faith, 'murda" fish are haram - this is command of Imam. Ghulam Mohammed arguments are not acceptable becasue as per DB faith Imam is errorless.

[anajmi]

3. Solar and lunar eclipses; during an eclipse, bohras are instructed to stay indoors, not observe the eclipse, pray constantly, not eat, not drink nor do any fun thing.

The prophet (saw) has instructed extra prayers during the time of an eclispse. He said - “The sun and the moon are two signs of Allah; they are not eclipsed on account of anyone's death or on account of anyone's birth. So when you see them, glorify and supplicate Allah, observe the Prayer, give alms. O Ummah of Muhammad, none is more indignant than Allah when His servant or maid commits fornication. O people of Muhammad, by Allah, if you knew what I know, you would weep much and laugh little. O Allah, witness, I informed them.”

Going back to the topic of "murda" fish, there is no evidence that the prophet (saw) prevented the eating of a "murda" fish as per bohra definition of the same. Does that mean that Imam Moiz understood the Quran better than the prophet (saw)? or that the meaning of the Quran changed from the time of the prophet (saw)?

[Doctor]

Going back to the topic of "murda" fish, there is no evidence that the prophet (saw) prevented the eating of a "murda" fish as per bohra definition of the same. Does that mean that Imam Moiz understood the Quran better than the prophet (saw)? or that the meaning of the Quran changed from the time of the prophet (saw)?

Going back to the topic of "murda" fish, there is no evidence that the prophet (saw) not prevented the eating of a "murda" fish as per non-bohra definition of the same. Does that mean that non-bohra understood the Quran better than the prophet (saw)? or that the meaning of the Quran changed from the time of the prophet (saw)?

[anajmi]

Doctor,

You just displayed complete ignorance of Islam, seerah, sunnah and the message of the Quran. Go learn about halal, haraam, permissible, makruh and their basis so we can further this discussion. Until then, it is a waste of time.

[fearAllah]

So it should be easy for you to point out which ayah of the Quran was used by Imam Moiz to give the command about the Murda fish right? Unless the Imam has chosen not to share that information with you.

My knowledge is absolutely certain but very-very-very limited. I don't know answer to your above question. Others more knowledgeable than me in matter of DB faith can help you. With certainity I can say: DB faith is = all what Imam does is only per Quran.

I am not responsible for what all sunnis do. I have dismissed these rasams as innovation.

Why do you wear western outfits, they are innovations of Christians? Why are you not wearing outfits similar to Prophet Mohammed (a)? So to be ceratin that you are strictly following of "rasam" of Prophet Mohammed (a) and not Christians?

Sorry to interrupt Doctor Sahab, but Islam is not about dwelling in concepts of silly things like copying clothes etc, ofcourse the fundamental thing is that the clothes should be modest and not revealing. Otherwise someone can also backfire on you and argue that why are you using cars/trains/aeroplane invented by non-muslims while the prophet used to ride camels? Does that mean that all muslims should go to work/travel on camels/horses?

The Prophet never used to drink soda in his time, maybe only fresh juice was available in that era, so how come we all are drinking sodas these days? The Prophet used to make tea/coffee and food using fire so does that mean we should all do the same? How come we use microwaves, kettles and pressure cooker these days different from what prophet did? Please think broadly and consider the core part of prophet/quran teachings rather than concentrating on futile things.

[ghulam muhammed]

Placing of objects like metal frame of eyes , or other objects depicting Various body parts at various mazaars helps cure them.

This practice is followed even by other sects in a few mazars of Auliyas but the dai has commercialised the practice by making it mandatory for bohras to buy the objects from the respective office bearer of a mazar. For e.g. If a bohra wants to place an object of a house on the mazar (mannat for buying house) then he pays say Rs.52, Rs.152 etc to the concerned in-charge, same goes for silver objects of hands, feet, waist, eyes etc.

I wish if bohras put a 'brain' object with the neeyat of making proper use of this most important body part so that they start using their own brains and not that of kothar who manipulates and corrupts the same 24x7.

[Hussain_KSA]

GM

You know I avoid writing without reason, but your advice about "brain object" has impressed me. Keep it up bro

[Doctor]

GM

You know I avoid writing without reason, but your advice about "brain object" has impressed me. Keep it up bro

Hussain bhai and GM bhai,

If we compare Dawoodi Bohras and Sunni's in Udaipur or other places then: average Bohras are more educated, qualifed, earn more, have better living standard, more civilized, does least law offences, good clothed, trustworthy, speak less lies, their children are least mal-nutritioned, enjoy better sanitation, keep his house neat; clean and tidy, bath more often, more reputed in banks/money lenders than average Sunni.

You ask an average 16 years DB boy on what carrer he wish to pursue: he will reply: CA, engineer, doctor, MBA....

Ask same to average Sunni boy - to begin hardly few out of thousands Sunni boys reaches till 10th class - nevertheless, an average 16 years Sunni boy will reply: I will sell paan/beedi, I will become tempo/auto "mistri" (mechanic), I will become big smuggler, I will become don.....

So, Sunni's are in more need of brains than Dawoodi Bohras.

[anajmi]

average Bohras are more educated,

Do they have the same kind of education that you do?

[Muslim First]

Doctor
If we compare Dawoodi Bohras and Sunni's in Udaipur or other places then: average Bohras are more educated, qualifed, earn more, have better living standard, more civilized, does least law offences, good clothed, trustworthy, speak less lies, their children are least mal-nutritioned, enjoy better sanitation, keep his house neat; clean and tidy, bath more often, more reputed in banks/money lenders than average Sunni.
You ask an average 16 years DB boy on what carrer he wish to pursue: he will reply: CA, engineer, doctor, MBA....
Ask same to average Sunni boy - to begin hardly few out of thousands Sunni boys reaches till 10th class - nevertheless, an average 16 years Sunni boy will reply: I will sell paan/beedi, I will become tempo/auto "mistri" (mechanic), I will become big smuggler, I will become don.....
So, Sunni's are in more need of brains than Dawoodi Bohras.

Muslims are not suppose to be racist, Brother Doctor you are racist ignorant mo***.

Admin.

Please note Doctor has introduced DB-Sunni issue.

[ghulam muhammed]

So, Sunni's are in more need of brains than Dawoodi Bohras.

I fail to agree with you, just look at the larger world and tell me whether bohras are ANYWHERE even near to sunnis with regard to their wealth, education, power etc. You can collect statistics not only from the Middle East but even USA and other European countries. Even in India, give me a name of a SINGLE bohra who is nationally or internationally well known, I can give you many sunni names. Hence in your hatred of sunnis please do not try to underplay their role in this world.

[ghulam muhammed]

So, Sunni's are in more need of brains than Dawoodi Bohras.

Now who is MORE in need of brains, whether sunnis or bohras ??? Just do some research and find out about the achievements of SUNNIS as compared to bohras in the field of literature, art, science, technology, business, medicine. In India itself see as to how many sunnis are recipients of the Padma Shree, Padma Vibhushan and Padma Bhushan awards.

http://www.indianmuslims.info/people/li ... rdees.html

[humble_servant_us]

We all understand that zabiha is not for fish like it is done for other animals like goat , chicken etc. Once a fish is removed from water it will die.

But the question is Does Islam allow us to eat Dead animals. The answer is probably NO.

If a fish dies inside water, can we eat it. How do you make sure that the fish was alive when it came out of water or it had died inside the water. Its a matter of trust that the fish caught would have been alive. Many modern techniques catch fishes alive and throw dead fish back.

But if bohras are practicing extra care in seeing the fish alive, they are not doing anything wrong. Its more of precaution than superstition.