Why do Shias hate Bukhari so much

[seeker110]

Br., prof. please write for us the meaning of Summun Bukmun umyoon fahum layarjeoon. I have heard this tasbee many times in the past but dont know what it means

Salams

[professor]

With ears, they don't hear.
With senses, they don't feel.
With eyes, they don't see.
And hence, they won't be back on right path.

[anajmi]

After all this discussion, I am lead to believe that the only people who dishonour the quran and the prophet are the shias.

They have dishonoured their own mothers as declared by the quran.

They have dishonoured Hazrat Ali by attributing to him hatred towards his mother.

They have dishonoured the prophet by disassociating themselves with the prophet's wife.

No one has been able to give me a good enough reason for their hatred of Bukhari. What can be expected of people who hate their own mother!!

[anajmi]

SUMMUM, BUKMUN, UMYOON, FAHUM LAYARJEOON.

[accountability]

Professor: I am baffled by one question, would you kindly answer that: Did Ali appoint Imam Hassan as caliphate after him. How did Imam hassan assume khilafat, and thence after just months, he reliquished his khilafat in favour of muaviyah, and accepted remuniration from public exchequer.

can you please elobrate on this.

[tahir]

Originally posted by accountability:

A battle can never occur between two rights, it has never occurred between two rights. Whenever there is a war, there are either both sides at fault, or one side at fault.

Have to disagree here. A battle is usually between two differing point of views, both of which may or may not be right. But then again, what is 'right' is also a point of view.....

[accountability]

Tahir: agreed.

But the concept of right and wrong is universally accepted. The "right point of view" is one which complies with universal values of justice and fairplay, where the opposite is true for wrong.

[anajmi]

accty,

Anajmi: It is an immaturish and ignorant statment, without any research or historical evidence.

Hazrat Ali, was the elected kahlifa tul allah, and amirul mumineen.

Now that really is funny, including, immaturish and ignorant. There were three Khalifas before Hazrat Ali who were elected Khalifa tul allah and amirul mumineen. According to you they were all wrong weren't they??

[anajmi]

accty,

Yours and others unneccessarily emphasise on performance of rituals, which have little social bearing on its performance. I am not advocating to abondon the ritualistic performances, but they should not be and can not be the basis of any religion.

Now that is definitely your ignorance about Islam on display. The rituals, like salah, roza, hajj, zakat are the pillars of Islam. Even according to the shias these are amongst the pillars of Islam. So you are neither here nor there. What is the basis of religion according to you? The fight between Hazrat Ali and Hazrat Ayesha? That would be only for those who are looking for fitna and you definitely fit the profile.

[anajmi]

accty,

But the concept of right and wrong is universally accepted. The "right point of view" is one which complies with universal values of justice and fairplay, where the opposite is true for wrong.

Right statement but from the wrong mouth. Only a couple of posts ago you've mentioned that election of Hazrat Ali as khalifa was right but the election of Hazrat Abu Bakr, Hazrat Umar and Hazrat Uthman was not right. I am not sure if you understand most of the words you type. Infact I am sure that you don't.

[anajmi]

To All,

Here are some questions that are likely to be asked on the day of judgement. Please pick out the one which is least likely to come up.

1 Did you believe in Allah?

2 Did you believe in his prophet?

3 Did you perform salaah as taught by the prophet?

4 Did you perform zakat as taught by the prophet?

5 Did you perform Hajj as taught by the prophet?

6 Did you perform roza as taught by the prophet?

7 Did you do everything to help your muslim brother?

8 Did you figure out who was right and who was wrong in the fight between Ali and Ayesha?

9 Did you fight in the name of Allah?

10 Did you raise your children as good muslims?

[accountability]

Anajmi: How do you know, these or any other question(s) will be asked on judgment day.

Please show me the post, in which I wrote, that first three khalifas were wrong, or not elected. If you can't, then I would suggest, that you should repent for false allegation.

I consider myself neither shia nor sunni. I do not want to associate with any secterianism. I do believe, that I am a muslim, and believer in essence of religion, that is the goodness for all humanity. I am ready to accept, whatever is authenticated by unbiased history.

Time and again, I have said, that I do perform rituals of namaz, roza zakat, I have not performed hajj.

I repeat, namaz, rozas, zakat are the basic ritualistic demand of religion Islam, but it is not the base of relgion.

Let me educate you a bit about Islam and its message. I hope, it will be absorbed by your brainwashed intelict. The first message that was brought to prophet by gabriel was, iqra be isme, rabbakul lazi. Read in the name of lord of the people. To convert to islam, the only notion required is, to say that, "there is no one but allah is the lord and muhammed his prophet".

After entering islam, one is asked as part of religion to perform rituals of namaz, roza, zakat and hajj. Though there is an emphasis on performance of these rituals, but no where in quran, non observance is punishable by corporal punishment. Even with the performance of hajj: the only sins to be washed are the sins of allah, that is, non observance of rituals.

The base of religion islam is, belief in onness of allah without any shirk, this message was deleivered to us by his prophet, and through his propphet. So we have to acknowledge and believe in prophecy of prophet.

If I can make a point with you. Allah wants us to negate all the dummy gods and lords, so as to set humanity free from the clutches of any exploitation of men by men. The onness of the Lordship, will mean, emanicipation from manipulatory excercise for his own benefits. In ancient times, kings and monarchs used to claim godliness, thus enslaving entire nations for their own lust and power.

The onness of Lordship, without any participation is unique to islam. It is this uniqueness, that islam stands out as an emanicipatory force for whole man kind.

In quran, long and horrible punishments are reserved for those, who defy the essence of islam, that is oneness of lordship. It is frequesntly stated, that hell is reserved for mushriks and non believer. (non believer is one, who refuses to accept allah as one and only).

No where in quran, it is mentioned, that non observance of rituals, as asked, will result in horrible punishment.

The only way to irtidad (rejection) is, to stop believing in oneness of allah. That is a horrible crime, in the eyes of god. So, it was made punishable by death in this world and consequential treatment in hereafter.

There are two aspects of quran, one which deals with the essence and base, the other is historical background. while the essence or base is to be adhered upon. It is not made mandatorily imperative for believer to have unwavered belief in history or background.

in verse 033.006, it is suggested that prophet's wives are like mothers for believers. It is good for believer to heed to this suggestion, but not mandatory, otherwise prophets widow would not have been married after his death.

Prophet's actions do not make the essence or basics of islam. His daily routine may not simply coincide with ours, and i am sure, 99% of your daily routine is different from that of prophet's daily routine. It does not mean, you are rejecting or defying islam.

My suggestion for you is same, as i suggested to MF, that do not deprive yourself of becoming good muslim by analyzing logically.

[accountability]

Also cite refrences from quran, wherein it is stated, that namaz, roza etc are pillars of islam.

[professor]

Br Account.

When moula Ali died, according to Shia sources and belief, he passed his spiritual caliphate that is his divine knowledge to Imam Hasan. But your querry is related to political caliphate the following thing took place:

As ali died, Abdullah ibn Abbas who was an ardent support of Moula Ali was there with him, (Alas! the same Abdullah ibn Abbas progeny will one day be known as Banu Abbas and would treat shia Imams badly.) Just after death, Abdullah Ibn Abbas, Qais ibn Saad ibn Ubada (chief of army) and other sheikhs gave BAYAT to the Imam.
Then followed many people one after other and did the same thing. There were still many supporting Ali and opposing Muawia in kufa. They all stood behind the Imam.


In Damishk:
Muawia thrilled by Moula Ali's death was waiting to usurp the entire Islamic kingdom. One thing should be very clear: Ali was ruling over modern Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and some parts of Persia while Muawia was ruling over modern Syria, Jordan, Egypt etc.
As he had been governor of Syria for 20 years, was well versed with politics and in hatching conspiracies. He knew Hasan was a novice could easily be subdued without a war.

Here in kufa, Imam took charge and people from mecca, medina, yemen didnot oppose his taking over and that was construed to be accepting him as their ruler. This was hard for Muawia to swallow.

He sent spies in Kufa to incite people to revolt against the Imam. When it didn't work out he started sending his troops towards kufa to build pressure against imam to subdue. Knowing Muawia's gameplan, Imam also sent his 12000 troops under Qais leadreship towards Mosul(Iraq's border).

Here one thing more to be noted. Two characters: Moula Ali and Imam Hassan are of different dispositions. Imam was mild, soft spoken, civilian, kind and avoiding bloodshed.

People of Iraq are known for their vacillation. Muawia knew this. He bribed many tibal heads to switch sides.

There near Mosul, two armies didn't fight and rather the worst happened, Ubaidulla Ibn Abbas, chief of army, after some more troops joined Qais, was bribed by Mugaira ibn Shubba at the instance of Muawia and blatantly ditched the Imam. (UBAIDULLA AND ABDULLAH IBN ABBAS were brothers. one good, one bad)

Then the treaty:

1. Moula Ali's name will not be cursed from now onwards from the pulpit of UMMMAYYA'S mosques. As was the practiced. Remember they started the use of cursing.

2. Imam will get fiefdom of Ahwaz and so will be the revenue of the region.

3. People of Iraq will be given AMAN even some supported the Imam.

4. Muawia after his death will give appoint SHURA to elect the leader.

Look at the last one. It has its relation with the event of Karbala. As Muawia broke the term.

Sunni books:
Tabari, Ibn Athir, Yaqubi, Dinawari, Ibn Atham, Tirmidhi.

[professor]

Account.

Twice I noticed and now I have to intervene.
Correct your information. Prophets widows were barred to remarry in Quran. None married after his death though some like Aisha, Hafsa, Umm Habiba, Saffiyah lived for about 50 more years.

[anajmi]

accty,

First, you should stop quoting from the quran, cause you do not understand what you are reading.

Second, you should stop talking about Islam cause you do not understand what you are talking about.

Basically, what I am trying to say is that you should stop talking!! Cause you are making a fool out of yourself.

020.014
YUSUFALI: "Verily, I am Allah: There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.

029.045
YUSUFALI: Recite what is sent of the Book by inspiration to thee, and establish regular Prayer: for Prayer restrains from shameful and unjust deeds; and remembrance of Allah is the greatest (thing in life) without doubt. And Allah knows the (deeds) that ye do.

070.019 - 023
YUSUFALI: Truly man was created very impatient;-
YUSUFALI: Fretful when evil touches him;
YUSUFALI: And niggardly when good reaches him;-
YUSUFALI: Not so those devoted to Prayer;-
YUSUFALI: Those who remain steadfast to their prayer;

002.185
YUSUFALI: Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong). So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (Should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.

021.073
YUSUFALI: And We made them leaders, guiding (men) by Our Command, and We sent them inspiration to do good deeds, to establish regular prayers, and to practise regular charity; and they constantly served Us (and Us only).

007.156
YUSUFALI: "And ordain for us that which is good, in this life and in the Hereafter: for we have turned unto Thee." He said: "With My punishment I visit whom I will; but My mercy extendeth to all things. That (mercy) I shall ordain for those who do right, and practise regular charity, and those who believe in Our signs;-

There are hundreds of such ayahs for those who can read and understand. Unfortunately, you can do neither. Try and see if you can read and understand the few that I have posted above.

And please don't ask me where the word "pillar" is mentioned in those ayahs. Don't display more of your stupidity.

[Muslim First]

Br. AC Wrote

otherwise prophets widow would not have been married after his death.

For record. please identify which widow of Prophet SAW remarried?

Wasalaam
.

[Muslim First]

pROFESSOPR
Wrote:

When moula Ali died, according to Shia sources and belief, he passed his spiritual caliphate that is his divine knowledge to Imam Hasan.

For Professor like you, have you ever had any doubts that just passing a NASS, all the knowledge of one Imam is acquired by his designated son?

I say follow the pillars of Islam sincerely and all other things like morality etc. will be instilled in you.

If Imamate was required, Allah would have protected it. We would not have one nearly 1000 year old Imam in hiding, One in hiding and waiting for God knows what to come out and one racing Horses.

Wasalaam
.

[Muslim First]

AC Wrote:

No where in quran, it is mentioned, that non observance of rituals, as asked, will result in horrible punishment.

One sample from Qur’an

Surah Al-Muddaththir [No. 74]

36 a warning to mankind;

37 to any of you who chooses to go forward or to lag behind.

38 Every soul is held in pledge for its deeds,

39 except the people of the right hand,

40 who shall be in paradise. They will ask

41 from the culprits:

42 "What brought you into hell?".

43 They will answer: "We did not use to offer the Salah (prayers),

44 we did not use to feed the poor,

45 we used to join those who wasted their time in vain talk,

46 and we used to deny the Day of Judgment,

47 until death overtook us."

48 On that Day, no intercession of any intercessors shall profit them.
( Warnig to Saint and Grave worshipper)

49 Then what is the matter with them that they turn away from this admonition?

50 Like frightened donkeys

51 fleeing from a lion.

*****

I do not blame you brother AC. You are not suppose to read any translation of Qur'an except "Agdam Bagdam" they teach you in Sabak.

I suggest you take 3 or 4 translation and tafsirs and study Qur'an.

Wasallam
.

[kalim]

The answer to why Bukhari et. al. are not respected too much by most Shias is very simple: Bukhari subverts the Shia ideal of the Prophet's immediate family being his heirs to Islamic leadership, both temporal, but specially spiritual. Giving credence to some random and supposed companion of the Prophet for developing the sharia and not Ali and his descendants is quite heretical for the Shias. Now, in practice, specially for the Fatimids in the Dai'm al-Islam, the hadiths transmitted by the Imams and the family of the prophet may be very similar or identical to the one by other companions. Thus the bohra practice of the outward religion is quite close to that of the Sunnis, being based on similar narrations. I think we should ignore these differences. However, there are more fundamental differences in the sense that the Shia, specially the Ismailis, are essentially gnostic.

Shias do not accept the concept of election for the Khilafat and hence they do not consider the first three khalifs, Abu Bakar, Umar and Usman as being the true successors of the Prophet. The only successor of the Prophet, according to the Shias, is Ali and after him his Hassan, Hussain and then Hussain's descendants.

Also, it is quite disingenuous to ignore history and say who cares what happened between Aisha and Ali or what happened at Karbala. Anyone, whoever it may be, standing against the Prophet's true successors is deemed evil by the Shia. Obviously the title of "mother of believers" does not apply to such individuals and so they do not deserve the same respect as say Maulatena Khadija. In fact, they deserve the greatest condemnation for daring to stand against Ali or for plotting the murder of Hussain and his family.

MF keeps cribbing about the Imam of the bohras being absent for so long. Really, that is a basic misunderstanding of the concept of Imamat and the position of the Imam in the bohra faith. First, for spiritual matters the da'i has the same authority as the Imam when the Imam is in seclusion. So the da'i is the Imam for all practical purposes. The Imam, according to the Bohras, is manifest in the da'i. That does not make the Imam irrelevant, though. The Imam in the Ismaili way of thinking has a greater role to play in the spiritual and intellectual domain. He provides a reference point for Shia speculation on creation and resurrection, among other things. Although such speculations may not be digestible by Sunnis it does not mean it is not based on the Quranic interpretations. One only needs to read available literature, say by Sayedna Moayad Shirazi, to understand this, or say Henry Corbin's studies on the subject. The Imams may choose to exercise temporal authority or leave it to someone else. But they are the central focus of Ismaili (and Shia) spirituality.

[Muslim First]

.
Br.Kalim
AS

What ever theoritical beliefs of Shia or Sunnis are!

What are facts on ground?

There are no Imaams and no Khalifas, that is the fact.

You can believe in Dai as Imaam's representative and get abused by Kothar.

I may believe and take guidance from some Mullah and get abused.

Why not be guided by Qur'an and Sunnah of prophet?
(Leave out all the Ahidith which you do not like)

Bukhari did not invent Ahadit. He collected them from various sources and tried to authenticate them. Why abuse him.

Can you find any chapter on Pophets wives in Qur'an? But there is one on Mariam, moheher if Isa AS.

Do you find Biographi of Prophet in Qur'an?

Islam is not about History. Islam is about your sincere worship of only one God and we call him Allh SWT.

Wasalaam
.

[accountability]

Professor: One of the prophets wives, who was divorced to be married by prophet by his slave, married again after his demise. I am not remembering the name of the lady.

[accountability]

See anajmi: You are making the fool out of yourself. None of the verses you quoted denied what I said. Show me a verse, wherein it is stated that non observance of rituals will result in horrible punishment here and hereafter.

And stop interfering in logical debates, which you dont seem to understand.

You are so blatantly empty headed, that you will never be able to pick up the central theme of a discussion.

Read carefully the post, There are suggestions, strongly worded ones, but never crossed the line.

[accountability]

Anajmi: you did not show me the post, wherein I said that earlier three khalfas were wrong.

[professor]

Her name was Zainab bint Jahsh (Known as Barra also) lived with prophet for 6 years and 9 years after prophet. You are mistaken. Neither she nore other wives remarried after prophet's death.

[anajmi]

kalim,

Also, it is quite disingenuous to ignore history and say who cares what happened between Aisha and Ali or what happened at Karbala. Anyone, whoever it may be, standing against the Prophet's true successors is deemed evil by the Shia. Obviously the title of "mother of believers" does not apply to such individuals and so they do not deserve the same respect as say Maulatena Khadija. In fact, they deserve the greatest condemnation for daring to stand against Ali or for plotting the murder of Hussain and his family.

I think you should be the last person to suggest which Islamic title is suitable for which person, don't you think?

And we all know who are deemed evil by the shia, and that is the reason why we believe that the shias are supid whether they be the Ismailis (who are a notch higher on the stupid scale) or the bohras.

And it is quite disingenous to say that Hazrat Ayesha plotted against Hussein and his family.

I repeat, you should stick to what you know best and that would be Bertrand Russell.

[anajmi]

accty,

If you had read and understood even one surah of the quran without going to sleep, you would've understood that punishment for not obeying Allah is hellfire and in almost every ayah of the quran Allah is ordering you to do salaah, zakat, roza and hajj.

Not doing salaah, roza, zakat and hajj is direct disobedience of Allah's command. Every one of the ayahs that I have quoted denies what you have said. But you won't understand cause you've got a head filled with hay, or you are a zionist agent trying to lead muslims astray.

[anajmi]

accty,

Professor: One of the prophets wives, who was divorced to be married by prophet by his slave, married again after his demise. I am not remembering the name of the lady.

It is quite easy to find out the name of the lady in question these days, specially if you have access to the internet. Unfortunately you are a liar, you've done this before when you couldn't find ayahs that you said proved your point.

Remember when you said I don't remember which ayah says the sun goes around the earth? And then you had to take it back? You will be doing the same in this case too.

Her name was Zainab as professor correctly stated, and I want you to produce the proof that she married after the prophet died. Any hadith or any book of history that states this would do.

[accountability]

Anajmi:

these are ayahs, you quoted:

020.014
YUSUFALI: "Verily, I am Allah: There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.

029.045
YUSUFALI: Recite what is sent of the Book by inspiration to thee, and establish regular Prayer: for Prayer restrains from shameful and unjust deeds; and remembrance of Allah is the greatest (thing in life) without doubt. And Allah knows the (deeds) that ye do.

070.019 - 023
YUSUFALI: Truly man was created very impatient;-
YUSUFALI: Fretful when evil touches him;
YUSUFALI: And niggardly when good reaches him;-
YUSUFALI: Not so those devoted to Prayer;-
YUSUFALI: Those who remain steadfast to their prayer;

002.185
YUSUFALI: Ramadhan is the (month) in which was sent down the Qur'an, as a guide to mankind, also clear (Signs) for guidance and judgment (Between right and wrong). So every one of you who is present (at his home) during that month should spend it in fasting, but if any one is ill, or on a journey, the prescribed period (Should be made up) by days later. Allah intends every facility for you; He does not want to put to difficulties. (He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.

021.073
YUSUFALI: And We made them leaders, guiding (men) by Our Command, and We sent them inspiration to do good deeds, to establish regular prayers, and to practise regular charity; and they constantly served Us (and Us only).

007.156
YUSUFALI: "And ordain for us that which is good, in this life and in the Hereafter: for we have turned unto Thee." He said: "With My punishment I visit whom I will; but My mercy extendeth to all things. That (mercy) I shall ordain for those who do right, and practise regular charity, and those who believe in Our signs;-

Not doing salaah, roza, zakat and hajj is direct disobedience of Allah's command. Every one of the ayahs that I have quoted denies what you have said. But you won't understand cause you've got a head filled with hay, or you are a zionist agent trying to lead muslims astray.

Show me in which of these ayahs, your above statment is collaborated.

[accountability]

professor: thankyou for answer. I am wondering, why didn't maulana ali, use the same method as was used for his own khilafat, that was, to be nominated by someone, and seconded by others, so as to give it a democratic and fair look.

I hope you will analyze it fairly. Whatever reverence we attach to anyone, should not at the cost of fairness and justice.