Practice Of Female Circumcision Among Bohra Muslims.

[ghulam muhammed]

Stealth Revolution
Muslim women of Mumbai’s Bohra community are secretly joining hands to slough off an age-old tradition of female genital mutilation

Like many other Bohri women of her generation, she was about to turn seven when she herself underwent ‘khatna’—the excision of her clitoris. “I couldn’t walk. I had to walk with my feet apart for many days.” No one discussed what had happened or why it did. She could walk properly again only by the time her summer holidays ended.

When the 53-year-old Bohri’s eldest daughter was old enough for khatna, she showed her husband the RD article. He asked her to do what she deemed best for the girl. But living in a joint family, there was pressure from her in-laws, generations of them. She showed the article to her mother-in-law, who was also won over to the cause. But she was helpless in front of her grandmother-in-law, an 85-year-old who lived with all of them. “I told her to leave it to me.” Since then, she has had to lie about having had it done. Asked in social gatherings if her daughters have had their naak vindhayu (nose pierced: community code for female genital mutilation), she simply says ‘yes’. So do her daughters, who have been explained the strange circumstances that force them to lie. “From the article, I learnt that it was unscientific,” says the protective mother, “And if you suppress sexual desire, how can you please your husband? You won’t even desire sex.”

While the primitive tribal practice has never had Islamic sanction, unlike male circumcision which is routine, it has lasted in several African and other sub-cultures. In the West, clitoridectomy used to be done by doctors about a hundred years ago (see ‘Caught in the Act’ on page 34). Today, in India, it is peculiar to Dawoodi Bohras, a sub-sect of Shia Muslims.

Dawoodi Bohras are a small, closely networked community, and she fears that letting out the truth would be seen as an act of rebellion and risk having the family shunned by the rest. But the whisper campaign against the practice is getting louder, aided by online activism, and it may not be long before the community has to address it squarely and openly.

Pain is all that 25-year-old Aarefa Johari recalls of her Khatna. “I remember how painful urinating was,” says she. Only after reading about it much later as an adult did she realise that pain was not all she’s had to suffer. She still recoils from the discovery of its intended purpose. “How can you just cut off a child’s organ?” she asks. When upholders of the practice point out that it isn’t as barbaric here as it is in Africa, she gets even more angry. “How can you do it without my consent?” she retorts. “How can you cut off my sexual organ to control my sexuality?”

“No amount of lace or ribbon can make your rida (Bohri burkha) look attractive,” she scoffs, “It is a penguin suit you wear to hide yourself.” To her mind, it is ludicrous that Bohras should see themselves as superior, often sneering at other adherents of Islam as ‘Muslims’. “And what does that make them?” she wonders.

Having left the fold, Aarefa does not fear ex-communication. A journalist with Hindustan Times, she is actively highlighting the need for a ban through articles and online media.

The Bohra religious establishment has a record of using excommunication as a tool to retain its grip. It implies a complete social and financial boycott, which, in a tightly knit business community, could prove crippling. “As I grow older, the fear of excommunication becomes more real,” says Munira, a 34-year-old mother, “You get banned from the weddings and social functions of your loved ones. It is horrible. I want to be part of the community for the sake of my family.”

If Engineer views the Syedna’s unquestioned authority as a problem, Tasleem sees in it an opportunity. “He is the ‘Voice of God’ to Bohras,” she says, “This is one case where a single individual can make a difference instantly and completely.” But the Syedna has had nothing to say on the issue so far, and shows no sign of giving in to the appeals of a handful.

The silence remains, but its nature has begun to change. Some women are using the secrecy around khatna to shield their daughters and granddaughters from it. More importantly, they are using the anonymity of the internet to mobilise the groundswell of Bohra opinion needed to excise the practice once and for all. It’s an idea whose time has come.

http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... revolution

[Muslim First]

Adam
Allah. I do believe in Lakum Dee Nakum

Despite being told that "Lakum Dee Nakum" was Allah's command to Prophet to tell "Kafirs" (non believers in Islam that for him it is Islam and for Kafirs is thir religion.

It should be not used as a resort for scoundrals to hide behind Qur'an's Aya.

[Adam]

Great.
So Human can go and believe his Un-Islamic ways. That's okay with you'll. But when an Abde tries to justify the teaching of the Prophet and the importance of it, the opposition gets all excited!

[Adam]

"THE OPPOSITION"
This is a new term I will use when mentioning people who are not "Abdes" (True Dawoodi Bohras).
I wont use the term "Proggy" because it doesn't apply to every one, as there are Wahabis, Sunnis, Shias, Philosophers, Un Islamic people, confused people) and only one "Proggy" (Udaipuri) on this forum. (I think).

[SBM]

"THE OPPOSITION"
This is a new term I will use when mentioning people who are not "Abdes" (True Dawoodi Bohras).
I wont use the term "Proggy" because it doesn't apply to every one, as there are Wahabis, Sunnis, Shias, Philosophers, Un Islamic people, confused people) and only one "Proggy" (Udaipuri) on this forum. (I think).

Great
.From now on We should not use the word "ABDE" and instead use "REGRESSIVES" since we are on Progressive forum
Adam I think you are finally coming to fulfill your master's wishes of calling DUSHMAN as Kothari Goons have been doing it you are sneaking very nicely by using word Opposition.
Opposition to what: Sajjada to Human Being, Hindu Rasam of Wadhawo, Corruption, bending in front of kid (i.e. you as Taha BS)
[b]Opposition to tyranny of Kothari Goons- Well Remember Imam Hussain did the same thing, so thank you for putting us in the fold of true followers of Imam Hussain[/b].

[Adam]

Opposition to what

At least, just to differ from you

[SBM]

Opposition to what

At least, just to differ from you

Adam
This is your answer what a cope out of answer, just to differ. How about replying to my defination of opposition.
So you agree that you are opposing us just to differ and not on the reality on the ground or to what I said
Profastian: Did Adam put his foot in his mouth as per your understanding.

[Al Zulfiqar]

i agree with sbm,

from now on all abde slave idiots should be referred to as "REGRESSIVES".

whereas the world marches on, the slaves slide into regression.. in their thoughts, dress, behaviour, actions and speech.

su eni niraali shaan chhe....!!! (adam, is this pristine arabic?)

[SBM]

Here is an article regarding MALE circumcision
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2012-02-16 ... tradition/

[Adam]

Does that mean that you'll will reject Male Circumcision also?

[Al Zulfiqar]

adam,

please confirm or deny this:

all dawoodi abdebohra regressives undergo 2 khatnas, one physical and the other spiritual/mental.

in one they donate their khaal for making jootis for syedna (other muslims just have a normal khatna) and in the other khatna they are made to take an oath that they will not read, speak, think or act in defiance of syedna's wishes and farmaans, even if that diktat does not conform with the quran or common-sense.

is this correct?

[Human]

^^^
I think it is more a case of how they bring the kids up. Right from birth and then childhood, they are subject to worshipping the dai. The kids see the love of dai their parents have and believe in all the miraculous stories the parents tell them about the dai. They live a lifestyle that is full of majlis, jaman, namaaz with 2 raqaats for dai's health, etc. If someone is brainwashed right from the start, its hard to falter later on as trusting the dai is something that is engraved on their brains. Its an encoding that is very hard to change. Something like how Jews would believe in miracles of Moses, Christians in miracles of Christ and Non abde muslims in miracles of Mohammed. It is all engraved and hard to change, something that your logical brain is scared of challenging or never challenges in most cases.
Then there are more weird examples of kids brought up with a similar brainwash and made to believe in Star Trek stuff who later on turn out to be proud "Jedi's" and list it as their religion.

[Human]

I should add, instilling fear in people is a pillar of almost any religion!

[ghulam muhammed]

Bro Human,

Read "Why Is The DAI Not Held Responsible For Evils In Bohraism"

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=6888

[Adam]

No 2 Khatnas. This has just been cooked up by your sick/immature mind.

[Al Zulfiqar]

No 2 Khatnas. This has just been cooked up by your sick/immature mind.

adam, let me give you an opportunity to prove yourself right. post here the exact wordings of the misaq in their entirety as administered by the clergy to a bohra child attaining puberty.

do you have the guts? or are you going to hide behind lies, deception and roundabout talk?

[Adam]

I'll try and get the wordings.
But i'm 100% sure there's no mention of "Khatna" in the Misaaq i've been giving for many years!
I don't know who you've been listening to.
Maybe he was a Proggy??
Confusion.

What "Khatna" words are you referring to? Please cite your evidence.

[ozmujaheed]

Adam the is a difference between male and female cicumcision

Male one does not interfe with sexuality, male one is prescribed in Islamic guidelines as Sunnah , even though there are debates over the benefits there is no evidence that it harms the health

Female one is to suppress sexuality , is cultural and scientifically proven to be harmful.

Abdes know it is wrong but are stupid not to standup against the dawaat to correct a wrong

[Adam]

Adam the is a difference between male and female cicumcision

Abdes know it is wrong but are stupid not to standup against the dawaat to correct a wrong

Thank you OZ for your comment.
However my last reply was to Al Zulfiqar s nonsensical comment of 2 Khatnas. Please clarify it with him.

Correcting you: Abdes DO NOT say it is wrong. As it is the farmaan of the Prophet and Ali AS (According to DB texts). Right is what our Prophet and Imams say is right. Wrong is what they deem wrong. Simple as that.

I have mentioned this many times. (Anajmi, even agreed) that first decide whether its the farmaan of the Prophet and Imams. If it is, follow it. If it isn't then don't. We DB according to our faith believe it is.

[Al Zulfiqar]

I'll try and get the wordings.

then get it. please post here the misaq as administered to bohra kids in its entirety and then we will go from there.

let us see how much of a man you are. you profess to have in your possession every damn conceivable bohra scripture, past or present, and you do not have the wordings of the misaaq???

[chokri Bohri]

This practice should be stopped or at least changes where a female who is 18 year or more can take this decision based on her wish. If possible the age should be increased from 18 to 21.

[Human]

FGM is a harmful thing that is proven scientifically/medically. It should be stopped full stop. I've posted URL's from World health organisation reports and research papers on this forum as well.

[ozmujaheed]

Adam where is it written that fgm is Sunnah ?

If you mean since the prophet has not baned it it should be ok ?

Well ice and ecstasy has not be explicitel stated 1400 years ago that it is haram, so does it make it permissible

Why don't the abdes just give in and state it is wrong and the Diai can catchup with reality !

[revertbohra]

Adam where is it written that fgm is Sunnah ?

If you mean since the prophet has not baned it it should be ok ?

Well ice and ecstasy has not be explicitel stated 1400 years ago that it is haram, so does it make it permissible

Why don't the abdes just give in and state it is wrong and the Diai can catchup with reality !

its a sunnah....even mentioned in sunnni books

[chokri Bohri]

its a sunnah....even mentioned in sunnni books

Can you post the proof.

[Adam]

@Al Zulfiqar - The child who gets really excited over tiny things.

you profess to have in your possession every damn conceivable bohra scripture, past or present, and you do not have the wordings of the misaaq???

I have never "professed" that.
I did have the words to the Misaaq, but not at that moment as I was not at home, to refer to it.
Now, back to your silly little question, I asked you to mention which part of the Misaaq you were referring to. As there is no mention of "Khatna" in the misaaq wordings. Please clarify.

@OZ
Senseless arguments because we have to keep repeating everything

Adam where is it written that fgm is Sunnah ?
If you mean since the prophet has not baned it it should be ok
Well ice and ecstasy has not be explicitel stated 1400 years ago that it is haram, so does it make it permissible

Yes it is in the Sunnah.
1. Mentioned in DB texts from the Prophet and Imam Ali AS. (And mentioned in some Sunni and Shia books as I have quoted before, but again this is just for reference, as we DBs don't need Sunni and Shia texts to follow, we follow our own teachings.)
2. The Prophet was for all mankind. If the Prophet banned or allowed something it will continue to exist so.
3. Yes, the words "ecstacy" "cocaine" haven't been mentioned by their "names" in the Sunnah, but the "concept" is the same. The Sunnah clearly states that anything that intoxicates you, is Haram. Simple.
And when in doubt, there's always an authority you refer to for answers. That's why the Prophet appointed Imam Ali in his place. Imam after Imam. (But sadly you have no one to help you understand)

[SBM]

(And mentioned in some Sunni and Shia books as I have quoted before, but again this is just for reference, as we DBs don't need Sunni and Shia texts to follow, we follow our own teachings.)

Adam
Two questions:
Are not you contradicting in your sentence: read the underline sentence and then the next one
Second one What are the teachings of DB. -- Saajada to Syedna (when did it start) Calling Syedna Haqiqi Kaba (when did that start)
I have an old Sahifa (printed by Ali Bhai Sharaf Ali) and I compared it to the new one, there are many alterations so which one is authentic
the one used by previous Dais or the current one altered by 51 and 52.

[Adam]

Adam
Two questions:
Are not you contradicting in your sentence: read the underline sentence and then the next one

Second one What are the teachings of DB. -- Saajada to Syedna (when did it start) Calling Syedna Haqiqi Kaba (when did that start)

No, I am not contradicting. I've stated VERY clearly that WE DAWOODI BOHRAS follow only what our sources tell us. The OTHER (Shia/Sunni) references are just for your information that some other sects believe in it as well. If we assume other sects did not have it, but DB sources did, we'd only follow DB sources as they are our authority.

Second one What are the teachings of DB. -- Saajada to Syedna (when did it start) Calling Syedna Haqiqi Kaba (when did that start)

Sajda - has been mentioned in the Quran and Fatimid texts (Majalis Musayaraat, Kitab ul Himmah) even before the Duat were appointed (Do you follow/believe in Fatimid texts?) Another example, Syedna Abde ALi Saifuddins Kika bhai "Sajda dai karjo salaam"
Haqiqi Ka'aba - Farazdaq has mentioned it (PORUS posted something about it, where I corrected his translation), Syedna Moiyed in Imam Mustansirs time has called him that. (Do you follow/believe in Fatimid texts?)

About the differences between the Sahifas. Please cite a few examples for our knowledge.
Basically, if there are differences, they wouldn't be in the CORE beliefs and practices, maybe in the "Tatawwo"?

[Al Zulfiqar]

adam,

in MY opinion, you are the immature but cunning child here who keeps harping on the same tune, "quote your sources, who is your leader, which are your books" crap. and every time someone contradicts you, you throw tantrums and apoplectic fits and call them cowards!

if you are a man, please post the complete wordings of the misaq as presently administered. why are you beating around the bush and now asking me which sections i want you to quote and where etc?

[Hussain_KSA]

Recently I have come accross the Deewan ( Compliation of poems) of Fardzaq during my reasearch. I was surprise to read that he has written many poems even in praise of those to whom shia or bohras don't like and send laanats, for example sister of yazeed and Ma'awiya. I have scanned the entire book in PDF version.

Here is what is found about him in widipedia

Hammam ibn Ghalib Abu Firas, (Arabic: همام بن غالب ، ابو فراس‎) commonly known as al-Farazdaq (Arabic: الفرزدق‎) (Arabicized form of Persian Parāzda پرازده: "lump of dough")[1] (ca. 641 - ca. 728-730) was an Arab poet.

He was born in Kazma and lived at Basra. He was a member of Darim, one of the most respected divisions of the Bani Tamim, and his mother was of the tribe of Dabba. His grandfather Sa'sa' was a Bedouin of great repute, his father Ghalib followed the same manner of life until Basra was founded, and was famous for his generosity and hospitality.

At the age of 15, Farazdaq was known as a poet, and though checked for a short time by the advice of the caliph Ali to devote his attention to the study of the Qur'an, he soon returned to making verse. In the true Bedouin spirit he devoted his talent largely to satire and attacked the Bani Nahshal and the Bani Fuqaim. When Ziyad, a member of the latter tribe, became governor of Basra in 669, the poet was compelled to flee, first to Kufa, and then, as he was still too near Ziyad, to Medina, where he was well received by the city's emir, Said ibn al-As. Here he remained about ten years, writing satires on Bedouin tribes, but avoiding city politics.

But he lived a prodigal life, and his amorous verses led to his expulsion by the caliph Marwan I. Just at that time he learned of the death of Ziyad and returned to Basra, where he secured the favor of Ziyad's successor Ubayd Allah ibn Ziyad. Much of his poetry was now devoted to his matrimonial affairs. He had taken advantage of his position as guardian and married his cousin Nawar against her will. She sought help in vain from the court of Basra and from various tribes. All feared the poet's satires. At last she fled to Mecca and appealed to the political contender to the Ummayids Abdallah ibn Zubayr, who, however, succeeded in inducing her to consent to a confirmation of the marriage.

Quarrels soon arose again. Farazdaq took a second wife, and after her death a third, to annoy Nawar. Finally he consented to a divorce pronounced by Hasan al-Basri. Another subject occasioned a long series of verses, namely his feud with his rival Jarir and his tribe the Bani Kulaib. These poems are published as the Nakaid of Jarir and al-Farazdaq.

Al-Farazdaq became official poet to the Umayyad caliph Al-Walid I (reigned 705–715), to whom he dedicated a number of panegyrics.[2]

He is most famous for the poem that he gave in Makkah when Ali bin Hussain bin Ali bin Abu Talib (Zayn al-Abidin) entered the Haram of the Kaba angering the emir. The poem is extremely powerful. It is because of this poem that he was imprisoned.[3]