So, who's right? ;)

[anajmi]

A reformed bohra. I used to be a bohra, but reformed and became a muslim. My family still has some bohras although none of them are abde idiots. There is some hope for bohras, but their Dai is definitely hell bound.

[profastian]

A reformed bohra. I used to be a bohra, but reformed and became a muslim. My family still has some bohras although none of them are abde idiots. There is some hope for bohras, but their Dai is definitely hell bound.

So a person who doesn't believe in the concept of Imamat let alone the Dauts, is a bohra(reformed or not) by any stretch of the imagination. Shouldn't you call yourself a reformed Muslim.
Doesn't the reform movement have any objection with the likes of such a member?

[anajmi]

profastian,

Are you the best people that the kothar has supporting them on this board? Didn't they find anyone else with even half a brain?

[profastian]

deleted

[ghulam muhammed]

So a person who doesn't believe in the concept of Imamat let alone the Dauts, is a bohra(reformed or not) by any stretch of the imagination. Shouldn't you call yourself a reformed Muslim.

You have misunderstood anajmi, either knowingly or unknowingly because he clearly meant that he is an ex-bohra having left the bohra fold for good.

[Human]

human = Not sure what he believes and I do not care.

I love it, how he hates my guts
Human = A dawoodi bohra on paper (has an e-jamat card and still pays all the dues) who knows that Dai and royal family is nothing but mere experts in ripping off people and expert scam artists.
A rational thinker who believes in factual explanations rather than 'beliefs' (that are more fiction like).
A man of science who doesn't buy in religious beliefs as they are mere belief's for mass human control.
A man who proudly believes in 'HUMANITY' and that if you are good to fellow humans, animals, birds, any living creature and the earth; you do not need to be slaves of any religious beliefs. Just be good to everyone.
Knows that this world would be a better place if no religions existed and people didn't bay for each other's blood over religion; if everyone was just a human with kindness for everyone.

[anajmi]

A man who proudly believes in 'HUMANITY' and that if you are good to fellow humans, animals, birds, any living creature and the earth; you do not need to be slaves of any religious beliefs. Just be good to everyone.

Consider the irony of this statement. If there is no God, then religion was created by HUMANS. So much for "HUMANITY"!!

[Human]

A man who proudly believes in 'HUMANITY' and that if you are good to fellow humans, animals, birds, any living creature and the earth; you do not need to be slaves of any religious beliefs. Just be good to everyone.

Consider the irony of this statement. If there is no God, then religion was created by HUMANS. So much for "HUMANITY"!!

I never said "there is no God" and won't do until science can answer certain pointy questions. But at least they admit they don't know yet and are trying to find factual evidence rather than making assumptions and beliefs about the ultimate truth. So regarding God, even if he's there I refuse to believe that all he wants us to do is to follow religion/s and worship him; very irrational.
Good play of words by the way, but by humans (of humanity) I meant those who are kind to all and do everyone's good regardless of their religious beliefs. There's always going to be people who will do stuff for their own selfish gains. Can put Dai in this category on any religious leader per se.
Inventing a religion is simple! Just take the existing popular religious texts, digest the knowledge, and write some remixed text that will scare the hell out of everyone. See where I'm going with this?
Following a so called religion and taking heart that you're safe in your en-route to heaven as you do whatever your religion asks you to, is just silly while you ignore billions of other suffering people in the world. Be a human and help them out. Heaven and Hell are fictitious, but I'm sure that even if they existed; God would put you in heaven for being helpful to others while not going to church/mosque/temple/etc and praying.

[anajmi]

even if he's there I refuse to believe that all he wants us to do is to follow religion/s and worship him; very irrational.

Inventing a religion is simple! Just take the existing popular religious texts, digest the knowledge, and write some remixed text that will scare the hell out of everyone. See where I'm going with this?

Which still means that religion was created by HUMANS. So much for HUMANITY!!

[Human]

even if he's there I refuse to believe that all he wants us to do is to follow religion/s and worship him; very irrational.

Inventing a religion is simple! Just take the existing popular religious texts, digest the knowledge, and write some remixed text that will scare the hell out of everyone. See where I'm going with this?

Which still means that religion was created by HUMANS. So much for HUMANITY!!

"So much for HUMANITY!!" will always be true while people like you exist unfortunately.
You've once again proved your masterful art of diverting from the topic. But that is exactly what I expected from you anyways, apparently that's all you're good for.

[Adam]

@Profastian

@Adam,
Do you really think that they will ever answer this question?

No, I don't think any of the opposition ever will. I've said it many times, they're too scared to admit it. My post was just to confirm that statement.
They think the enemy of the enemy is their friend, when in reality they are enemies in belief themselves and NOT on the same side.
Anajmi vs Human above is a perfect example.
Sad story for the opposition.

[anajmi]

There is a nice saying in urdu ki doobte ko tinke ka sahara kafi hai.

That is your condition right now. After being hammered by all and sundry you are now trying to point to the differences amongst the opposition. If the argument between me and Human is a sad story, consider the argument between me and you and imagine how sad that must be for you.

[Humsafar]

It's natural that Dai worshipping abdes are sad because others lack similar enthusiasm in human worship.

[accountability]

Porus wrote "Porus = seeker, aware that every belief is a mere hypothesis begging rigorous examination. Belief can never be 'truth'"

Adam would you please elobrate on it.
I would like to add to it, "religion(s) do not and cannot stand the test of truthfulness". What is truth, according to oxford truth is defined as "a fact or belief that is accepted as true:". now there are two parts, one is fact, which is accepted as truth, the other one is belief (does belief need to be measured against facts to stand as truth). narration cannot be termed as facts, facts has to have foundation in ground.

[Human]

They think the enemy of the enemy is their friend, when in reality they are enemies in belief themselves and NOT on the same side.
Anajmi vs Human above is a perfect example.
Sad story for the opposition.

Our views might be different in every other aspect, but the one thing we do agree is the wrongdoings of Dai. Have you ever seen us arguing in regards to the Dai? Dai and manhoos are just money printing machines with the ink provided by gullible foolish abdes, just look up the 'Ziyafats' thread that GM updates regularly.

[Adam]

Adam would you please elobrate on it.

I don't know what much to elaborate on it.
Belief is Iman, Iman is a characteristic of a Muslim.

@Human
I know you'll agree on going against the Dai.

Coming back to the Thread Topic.
Now, why don't you'll decide on who is right? There are drastic differences between the opposition.
The Quran describes you, the opposition perfectly (al Hashr 14)
بأسهم بينهم شديد تحسبهم جميعاً وقلوبهم شتى ذلك بأنهم قوم لا يعقلون
(thou wouldst think that they are united, whereas [in fact] their hearts are at odds [with one another]: this, because they are people who will not use their reason.)

Sad Story.

[ghulam muhammed]

Now, why don't you'll decide on who is right? There are drastic differences between the opposition.

The Quran describes you, the opposition perfectly (al Hashr 14)

بأسهم بينهم شديد تحسبهم جميعاً وقلوبهم شتى ذلك بأنهم قوم لا يعقلون

(thou wouldst think that they are united, whereas [in fact] their hearts are at odds [with one another]: this, because they are people who will not use their reason.)
The same can be said about abdes and this forum is loaded with evidence to prove the same. Hence it is a matter of perception and debates are all about it.



Sad Story.

[anajmi]

You are good at quoting incomplete ayahs and out of context to suit your own agenda aren't you?

This is what the complete ayah says.

59:14 Never will they fight you, [even] in unison, otherwise than from within fortified strongholds or from behind walls. Severe is their warlike discord among themselves: thou wouldst think that they are united, whereas [in fact] their hearts are at odds [with one another]: this, because they are people who will not use their reason.

But we are united in fighting with you. Besides, the ayah is talking about the hypocrites and idol worshippers and it has been demonstrated on this board time and time again that the Dai and the kothar are the hypocrites and the abdes are the idol worshippers.

The previous ayah says this.

59:13 Nay, [O believers,] you arouse in their bosoms a fear more intense than [even their fear of] God: this, because they are people who fail to grasp the truth.

The Dai obviously arouses no such fear in anyone other than his own abde idiots. He ran in a police car and then apologized on national TV and he also bows down in front of Modi and other criminals. You are not that dumb to actually believe that these ayahs are referring to your Dai are you?

[Adam]

Still focusing on others. Look at your own self and you you're pairing up with? Who's right?
You or Human? Anajmi or Al Zulfiqar? Gulam Mohammed or S.Insaf?
Who's on the righteous path! They're all different!

[anajmi]

We should first try to figure out who's wrong. It seems that we have a consensus that you and your Dai are wrong.

Second, anyone who follows the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw) and believes in the Tawheed of Allah and doesn't associate partners with Allah is from amongst those that are righteous. We agree that abde bohras do not belong to this category.

[Al Zulfiqar]

Look at your own self and you you're pairing up with?

i pair you with iblis, the biggest kafir of all.

[Adam]

So...... No one in "the opposition" claims they are RIGHT?
Sad story Indeed!

[anajmi]

They are all right as far as your Dai is concerned. That is the happiest part about it.

[Adam]

They are all right as far as your Dai is concerned.

What about them concerning their own self? That's definitely more important.
PROGGYS? Anyone out there?

[anajmi]

What about them concerning their own self?

It was with their own self that they were able to figure out the Dai and his goons. They didn't have to go and take raza from someone!!

[Adam]

You're getting tiresome and extremely immature.
You know exactly what is being discussed but choose to divert because you're too scared of the outcome.

I already stated (right from the beginning), that "The opposition" is very clear about their stance against the Dai. So leave that aside for just one thread. (But maybe straight intelligence doesn't penetrate a thick skull of arrogance!)
What next?
Who's right now? They are all mixed practices.
Are they all right? Are you right and them wrong? Are you wrong?

S. Insaf =
gulam mohammed =
human =
humanbeing =
Porus =
Al Zulfiqar =
Muslim First =

[anajmi]

because you're too scared of the outcome.

Yeah. I am shivering in my pants about what porus is going to say!!!

[Adam]

I already stated (right from the beginning), that "The opposition" is very clear about their stance against the Dai. So leave that aside for just one thread. (But maybe straight intelligence doesn't penetrate a thick skull of arrogance!)
What next?
Who's right now? They are all mixed practices.
Are they all right? Are you right and them wrong? Are you wrong?

S. Insaf =
gulam mohammed =
human =
humanbeing =
Porus =
Al Zulfiqar =
Muslim First =

[ghulam muhammed]

Who's right now? They are all mixed practices.

Are they all right? Are you right and them wrong? Are you wrong?
S. Insaf =
gulam mohammed =
human =
humanbeing =
Porus =
Al Zulfiqar =
Muslim First =

I fail to understand as to what exactly do you want to prove ? Every member cannot agree to each and every opinion of another. Do you fully agree with your father, wife or children ? Answer must surely be NO but even then dont you have a cordial relationship with them ? Hence it is all about ones own perceptions which he is at liberty to follow.

[Adam]

I pretty sure you did understand what I was saying. Just in case you didn't, i'll clarify it a bit more.

I'm talking about BELIEFS in ISLAM. (For your example: My entire family may disagree on some issues, but our BELIEFS are the same, thus according to us we are right)

(i'm not referring to their opinions/beliefs of the Dai, leave that aside for this thread).
All the "Opposition" on this Forum have very obvious differences in BELIEFS. And as the Quran mentions your either right or wrong.

Who's right now? They are all mixed practices.

Are they all right? (Can't be) Are you right and them wrong? Are you wrong?
S. Insaf =
gulam mohammed =
human =
humanbeing =
Porus =
Al Zulfiqar =
Muslim First =