The True Imam - How would you verify?

[stranger]

there is another dai in Baroda he claims same thing.

lol...
Bro MF, you can create a documentry on bohras, seriously.

[stranger]

Looks like they have given him a a lot of morphine to relieve the old man frm the pain in his butt.
MF, let go of life support and end your miserable life.

Hey Profastian,
That was rude dear. Do not attack on someone's physical ability. MF is a good man, a nice human being.

[Muslim First]

Imamah

The major difference between the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah and their Shia brothers is the doctrine of Imamah. The articles below will show that the concept of Imamah is the negation of the central tenet of Islam–namely that Prophet Muhammad is the seal of the Prophets.
The Quran Challenge
For hundreds of years, the Shia scholars have not been able to answer the “Quran Challenge.” The Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama’ah has repeatedly challenged the Shia to produce even one single verse in the Quran that outlines the Shia concept of Imamah.

Take challange
http://www.schiiten.com/backup/AhlelBay ... mamah.html

[Muslim First]

stranger Posts: 433Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:27 pm
That was rude dear. Do not attack on someone's physical ability. MF is a good man, a nice human being.

Thnx Brother stranger.
I have received new equipment which is quite portable. Including batteries it weighs only 12 pound and batteries last six hours. With spare batteries I can go anywhere (I have to make sure there is a hospital nearby with equipment support and yes there is even one in Jeddah so I am looking forward to Umrah in near future, IA)

Wasalaam

[Hussain_KSA]

stranger Posts: 433Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:27 pm
That was rude dear. Do not attack on someone's physical ability. MF is a good man, a nice human being.

Thnx Brother stranger.
I have received new equipment which is quite portable. Including batteries it weighs only 12 pound and batteries last six hours. With spare batteries I can go anywhere (I have to make sure there is a hospital nearby with equipment support and yes there is even one in Jeddah so I am looking forward to Umrah in near future, IA)

Wasalaam

Send me a pm before you come to Umra. Would love to see and meet you. May almighty Allah make your dream come true Ameen.

[AliRahbar]

Looks like they have given him a a lot of morphine to relieve the old man frm the pain in his butt.
MF, let go of life support and end your miserable life.

Hey Profastian,
That was rude dear. Do not attack on someone's physical ability. MF is a good man, a nice human being.

nice human being?

dont u feel shy? have u killed your gaairat?

person who praises killers of your Imam and ahlulbayt, is a good human being for you?

dont you know the hadith of Imam which says.........

http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=3677

[AliRahbar]

MF is already witnessing hell in this world and Inshallah if he dont repent there is a bigger torture for him in hereafter Ameen.

[AliRahbar]

shameless progs and there lovers dont feel shy to make fun of 101 year old syedna's physical ability.......how humanist is that?

[Muslim First]

MF is already witnessing hell in this world and Inshallah if he dont repent there is a bigger torture for him in hereafter Ameen.

Br Ali
AS
Few years ago I suffered failure of vital organ and I was near death. I was saved by a experimental electro mechanical device. I attribute this to mercy of Allah SWT, perhaps my deeds, Prayers of my family, prayers of my brothers and sisters of many Masajids for which I have performed Khidmat, well wishers on this forum and skill of doctors, surgeons and care givers.

Beside need for power support, I live very comfortable life. I have regained my privilege to drive. I have lived to see 4 new grand children. I go to my office and has resumed managing duties and am there at least for 4 hours. I have been to Zoos, children Museums, concerts and many eating places. I go to prayers and lectures frequently. And believe me, nobody carries me in Palkhi and make me a "Numaish (exhibition piece)".

If this is hell then I would wish this kind of hell for every human being who is facing certain death and this includes my Shia brothers and even you. May Allah SWT have mercy on you and never put you thru this kind of test.

According to Prophetic Hadith Allah tests you in this duniya so it is easy for after life.

Please brother do not wish ill for anybody even if he is your enemy.
Wasalaam

[anajmi]

shameless progs and there lovers dont feel shy to make fun of 101 year old syedna's physical ability.......how humanist is that?

This wouldn't happen if the abde idiots and the kothari goons were to avoid putting on a dog and pony show with the Dai every now and then to milk abde idiots!!

[AliRahbar]

MF is already witnessing hell in this world and Inshallah if he dont repent there is a bigger torture for him in hereafter Ameen.

Br Ali
AS
Few years ago I suffered failure of vital organ and I was near death. I was saved by a experimental electro mechanical device. I attribute this to mercy of Allah SWT, Prayers of my family, prayers of by brothers and sisters of many Masajids for which I have performed Khidmat and skill of doctors, surgeons and care givers.

Beside need for power support, I live very comfortable life. I have regained my privilege to drive. I have lived to see 4 new grand children. I go to my office and has resumed managing duties and am there at least for 4 hours. I have been to Zoos, children Museums, concerts and many eating places. I go to prayers and lectures frequently. Nobody carries me in Palkhi and make me a "Numaish (exhibition piece)".

If this is hell then I would wish this kind of hell for every humman being who is certain death including my Shia brothers and even you. May Allah SWT have mercy on you and never put you thru this kind of test.

According to Prophetic Hadith Allah tests you in this dunniya so it is easy for after life.

Please brother do not wish ill for anybody even if he is your enemy.
Wasalaam

shaitaan

keep your dua and well wishes for your self.....we dont need any thing from u, Alllah and ahlul bayt are enough for us.

[Muslim First]

shaitaan
keep your dua and well wishes for your self.....we dont need any thing from u, Alllah and ahlul bayt are enough for us.

Ali
This shows in your upbringing, your teaching, and your faith which teaches to hate your Muslim brothers for events 1400 years before and for which they have nothing to do.

[profastian]

Ali
This shows in your upbringing, your teaching, and your faith which teaches to hate your Muslim brothers for events 1400 years before and for which they have nothing to do.

We don't hate you for your beliefs We hate you for the hatred you spew against our beliefs.

[anajmi]

Not hatred, just pure Quranic evidence against idol worship. Like over here.

Imamers, abdes or Ismailis or Aga Khanis or Alavi Bohras normally quote this ayah of the Quran when they try to justify the existence of an Imam for all ages.
36:11
إِنَّا نَحْنُ نُحْيِي الْمَوْتَى وَنَكْتُبُ مَا قَدَّمُوا وَآثَارَهُمْ وَكُلَّ شَيْءٍ أحْصَيْنَاهُ فِي إِمَامٍ مُبِينٍ
The rest of us say that إِمَامٍ مُبِينٍ simply refers to your book of records. I found another interesting ayah in the Quran which confirms the understanding of the rest of us.
وَكُلَّ شَيْءٍ أَحْصَيْنَاهُ كِتَابًا
Surah An Naba - 78:29

[SBM]

shaitaan

keep your dua and well wishes for your self.....we dont need any thing from u, Alllah and ahlul bayt are enough for us.

AliRahbar

Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:05 am

The name ALI does not suite you, Can I ask a simple question if no one needs Dua then why Syedna and his Goons are asking for 100 hours of Maatam, 100 Darees and two Rakat Namaz for Syedna's health if only Allah and Ahlul Bayat are enough for you. It seems for them Allah and Ahlul bayt are not enough and need other people's Dua too

[Peace]

@Humanbeing
My POV is the same of the Shias.
Each person will have to subject himself to the Imam, and intercession is only through him. That is the first step, secondly each will be categorized according to their own deeds.

@Muslim First
We know you're a Sunni, so don't let this thread divert. We are discussing the Imam in accordance to Shia thoughts. Sunnis don't accept it, so don't.
Just as your Sunni beliefs will support your Sunni/Wahabi agendas (like destroying the Qabr of AhululBayt AS and trying to demolishing the Grave of the Prophet), Shia beliefs will support Shia beliefs.
Simple.
It's all about authority. Follow what you may.

In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

Dear Adam,
Please stop this shia & sunni thing. Categorizing (also called stereotype) viewpoint to shia or sunni then discard it if its not belong to your sect. That is the dilemma which muslim ummah is facing.

In order to aquire knowledge/truth you must have to lower/minimize your personal biases. Although it is in human nature but it can be minimized. For example if you are wearing green colored spectacles then majority of the things will look to you green but in reality it can be of other color. so try to analyze which colored spectacle you are wearing? Try different types of spectacles in order to get more accurate information. Truth will remain absolute you can only delude yourself.

That is why Allah s.w.t. has given us thinking brain to find and reach to the truth.

Whenever I debate with my DB friend and he tell me any thing which i feel can be correct then i accept it and it is vice versa. Although i m also a DB but dont believe in many DB's belief but i also accept their belief whenever i find that it can be right.

So try to analyze any viewpoint neutrally.

May Allah s.w.t show us "Sirat-e-Mustaqeem". Ameen.

[stranger]

Thnx Brother stranger.
I have received new equipment which is quite portable. Including batteries it weighs only 12 pound and batteries last six hours. With spare batteries I can go anywhere (I have to make sure there is a hospital nearby with equipment support and yes there is even one in Jeddah so I am looking forward to Umrah in near future, IA)
Wasalaam

Nice to hear the same bro, May Allah (SWT) bless you with better health and may your plans come true.

[stranger]

dont u feel shy? have u killed your gaairat?
person who praises killers of your Imam and ahlulbayt, is a good human being for you?

A good human being is good for his deeds, not for his caste. A good person is good for how he behaves not for what he follows.
Now reply to your query :-
Sunni faith and sources says that 1st three khalifa was not involved in the oppressing and torturing ahlul bayt. Shi'a on their faith and sources believe that they are indeed responsible for the same.
Its not that Sunnis believes they did wrong and they still follow them. They just don't believe that 3 khalifas tortured and surprassed Ahlulbayt.
Is it too difficult to understand ?
There is a huge difference between "to believe someone is wrong and still follow".. and "to believe that they are right and then follow ".. and Sunni Muslims belongs to later league.

I follow and believe in shi'a faith and i do send curse on 1st 3 khalifs, Hence logically Bro MF should have problem with me not vice versa. But you see he still call me "bro". That makes him a nice human being or perhaps better.

dont you know the hadith of Imam which says.........
http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=3677

and Do you know what Imam Hussain (AS) said/ordered when he was surrounded by the troops led by Hazrat Hurr and realise that they and their horses are thirsty, inspite of knowing well that they are enemies troops and gonna kill him and his household ?
Imam Hussain (as) inspires and teaches us biggest religion on the planet, the essence of Islam = "HUMANITY".

[SBM]

Br. Stranger
A very good and very touching response. Thanks

[ghulam muhammed]

shaitaan

keep your dua and well wishes for your self.....we dont need any thing from u, Alllah and ahlul bayt are enough for us.

Height Of WISHFUL THINKING...... "Allah and Ahle Bayt are with people who display such wicked and inhuman qualities"!!! Even shias/bohras wont agree to this.

[ghulam muhammed]

The lunatic AR who claims to be a proud abde has very proudly quoted a reference in his defence : http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=3677. Although I do not want any sunni/shia ruckus but nevertheless lets see what his masters have to quote :-

Once I came to the Prophet, peace be upon him and his progeny, and asked: "O messenger of Allah, who is your successor?" He said that the Prophet kept silent for a while, not answering me. Then he said: "O Jabir, may I not answer your question?" So I said: "My father and my mother be your ransom; By Allah, you maintained a silence, till I thought you were not pleased."
He said: "O Jabir, I was not displeased with you. I was waiting for what the heavens would reveal, and then Jibraeel came to me saying: O Muhammad, your Lord sends you salutations and says unto you: Surely, Ali b. Abi Talib is your executor and your successor over your kinsfolk and the Ummah; and a protector of your Pool (al-Hawdh). He is the bearer of your standard, preceding you into Praradise."

IF THE ABOVE WAS A WAHI FROM ALLAH (SWT) SENT THRU JIBRAEL THEN WHY WASNT IT MENTIONED IN THE QURAN LIKE OTHER WAHIS ?.

I saw the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him and his progeny, stroke the shoulders of Ali b. Abi Talib, peace be upon him and say: "O Ali, whoever loves us is from pure Arab breed and those who hate us are the non-Arab infidels.

WHERE DO THE HINDU DESCENDANT BOHRAS FIT IN THE ABOVE ?

The Prophet, peace be upon him and his progeny, told Ali b. Abi Talib, peace be upon him: "O Ali, I and you, and your two sons Hasan and Husain and nine descendants of Husain are the pillars of faith and buttress of Islam. Those who will follow us will be saved and those who turn away from us, their way is to hellfire."

NO MENTION OF 21 IMAMS, ONLY NINE AFTER PANJATAN PAK (A.S.)

[Muslim First]

Br GM
"O Ali, I and you, and your two sons Hasan and Husain and nine descendants of Husain are the pillars of faith and buttress of Islam. Those who will follow us will be saved and those who turn away from us, their way is to hellfire."
NO MENTION OF 21 IMAMS, ONLY NINE AFTER PANJATAN PAK (A.S.)

Br GM
You miscalculated. Ali RA+ Hassan RA + Hussain RA + Nine descendants = 12
You just proved claim of Twelver Imami Shia.

chalo ek bar firse confuse ho Jaye, chalo ek bar firse confuse ho Jaye

[progticide]

The Progressives have miserably failed to address the key aspect of the Shia Fatemi Ismaili Tayyibi Mustalavi Dawoodi Bohra doctrine of Imamat.

Hence, in the light of the above posted arguments and the failure of the progressive scholars to come up with any sound doctrine to address the questions raised in the topic above, it can be safely concluded that the Progressive movement is a farce, based only on a political agenda to serve the personal aspirations of its leaders who were marginalised because of their misconduct and in the process it has lost touch with the fundamental core-values and teachings of Shia Islam in general and DB faith in paricular.

[anajmi]

Abde Idiot - What is the color of the sky and what is the color of grass?
Progressive - The color of the sky is blue and the color of grass is green.
Abde Idiot - Let me ask the same question a different way. What is the color of grass and what is the color of the sky?
Progressive - The color of grass is green and the color of the sky is blue.
Abde Idiot - Since the progressives have miserably failed to answer the question, progressive movement is a farce.

[AliRahbar]

Abde Idiot - What is the color of the sky and what is the color of grass?
Progressive - The color of the sky is blue and the color of grass is green.
Abde Idiot - Let me ask the same question a different way. What is the color of grass and what is the color of the sky?
Progressive - The color of grass is green and the color of the sky is blue.
Abde Idiot - Since the progressives have miserably failed to answer the question, progressive movement is a farce.

I can understand ur frustration, even if i was at ur place and If i was kicked out of such wonderful community I would have behaved in the same way.I would have lose my mental balance same way u have lost it.

my condolence to you.

[Humsafar]

Abde Idiot - What is the color of the sky and what is the color of grass?
Progressive - The color of the sky is blue and the color of grass is green.
Abde Idiot - Let me ask the same question a different way. What is the color of grass and what is the color of the sky?
Progressive - The color of grass is green and the color of the sky is blue.
Abde Idiot - Since the progressives have miserably failed to answer the question, progressive movement is a farce.

anajmi, this is so true. It is really fun to watch this progticide raise a paper tiger, shoot it with his toy gun and then jump and down celebrating his victory. Not different from his masters who go into the "fateh mubin" mode everytime they face defeat.

[AliRahbar]

Abde Idiot - What is the color of the sky and what is the color of grass?
Progressive - The color of the sky is blue and the color of grass is green.
Abde Idiot - Let me ask the same question a different way. What is the color of grass and what is the color of the sky?
Progressive - The color of grass is green and the color of the sky is blue.
Abde Idiot - Since the progressives have miserably failed to answer the question, progressive movement is a farce.

anajmi, this is so true. It is really fun to watch this progticide raise a paper tiger, shoot it with his toy gun and then jump and down celebrating his victory. Not different from his masters who go into the "fateh mubin" mode everytime they face defeat.

defeat?

which defeat are u talking about?

syedna won 27 hard core cases against the fanatics, and every day he is winning some thing, while progs are still whinning to win a small case in udaipur, i posted some comments on that thread but as usual admin deleted it, before any one can read it.

so we all know who is tryint to save there ass.....just shut the crap and crawl back to rock where u come from ROFL.

[AliRahbar]

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=5685
cant even win such a easy clear case?

shame on you.

[Adam]

The shia interpretation is wrong according to the Quran itself. There is no need to interpret that which is absolutely clear in the Quran. The Quran itself has given us the interpretation of "Imam" to mean a "Kitaab". Every other interpretation can be thrown in the garbage dump.

So you claim the Sunni interpretation is right? How so? You can't deny that the Sunni s are in fact interpreting the Quran.
For example و ما كان الله ليضيع ايمانكم where the word "Iman" according to Shia AND Sunni interpretation means "Salat/Namaz". Therefore, the Quran has been interpreted, and it needs to be, in order to understand it. That's what's called "Tafseer". Each Tafseer follows their own agenda, right or wrong. And when there is confusion (which there always is) the Quran has very simply said to ask the Ahl al Zikr when you don't know. فاسئلوا اهل الذكر ان كنتم لا تعلمون
- If the Quran in fact wanted to talk about a physical Book, why didn't it just say كتاب مبين in this specific Ayat?

It's all about Authority. We follow ours, you stick to your awesome Imam in the Masjid.

[anajmi]

So you claim the Sunni interpretation is right?

As I have demonstrated, through ayahs of the Quran, that the Sunni interpretation is in line with the Quran. Actually, there is no interpretation required because the Quran makes it completely clear beyond any doubt.

And when there is confusion (which there always is)

Actually, the confusion is created by people to further their own agenda. For eg. your Dai creates this confusion to promote himself as an infallible. Otherwise the Quran is pretty clear.

why didn't it just say كتاب مبين in this specific Ayat?

The best way to understand the Quran is through the Quran itself. Some ayahs of the Quran are explained by other ayahs of the Quran. Why Allah didn't say something somewhere is not for me to question. When you read those two ayahs of the Quran, it becomes pretty clear ("mubin"), that it is referring to a book.

the Quran has very simply said to ask the Ahl al Zikr when you don't know.

When you don't know!!! But here in this particular case, we do know. The Quran makes it pretty clear. Besides, the ahl al zikr that you refer to, has created this confusion in the first place. I would ditch this ahl al zikr and find someone better.