are 'closet' reformists a hindrance to the 'open' re

[Al Zulfiqar]

of late i am noticing that many of the openly declared reformists on this site and elsewhere are using rather demeaning terms for those amongst us who are of strong reformist bent but prefer to remain within the community and fight by not cooperating with the evil amils and their chamchas. we have been termed the 'closet' reformists, as if we lack valour and are becoming a hindrance to the avowed openly declared reformists. it also implies as if the 'closet' reformists are some lower form of denizens who have compromised their soul to the devil and simply come here to let off hypocritical steam!

in fact, it is these very people whom you tend to look down upon, who are bringing more energy, input and strength in numbers to this board than the openly declared reformists themselves. we are the people who are giving more sleepless nights to the evil kothar as we are operating a resistance movement and sabotaging them from 'inside'. they fear us much more as we remain hidden moles and they hate those rebels they dont know and cannot find out. as i have said before, those who are 'out' are no longer a threat, they cannot do any damage. whereas those of us who remain within the community and expose them are able to cause much more havoc.

yet, our efforts are constantly derided and belittled as if we are the gutless ones and dont matter. i dare say, that it takes more guts to remain 'inside', yet resist, disobey and not slavishly bend to the kothar's commands. as far as my thinking goes, why shud i 'leave' when it is my birthright to be what i am? who has the guts to kick me out? i wud prefer to remain within and be a thorn in their sides and to hell with their raza's and crap. i can deal with it innovatively, resolutely and resourcefully.

if we are such a hindrance and an embarassment to the open reformists, let us know and we will gladly stop visiting this board and providing any further input. but please do not arrogate to yourselves the mantle of being on the higher paved road while we (cowards in your opinion) traverse the lower dirt road!

[anajmi]

AlZ,

Although I thought Humsafar was dissing the suffering insiders I sincerely believe that, that is not what Humsafar had in mind. The reformists need as many insiders as possible if they want the reform movement to go anywhere. He was simply trying to defend the reform movement in front of tripplehorn. Most reformists would've remained "insiders", if the indignity that they suffered at the hands of the kothar had remained within sufferable limits.
If a revolution is to happen, it will happen only from the inside.

[Aftab]

If a revolution is to happen, it will happen only from the inside.
________________________________________

Who says we are outsiders? We are in fact as much bohras as any other inside bohris. The fact that we are openly defying them does not mean we are less inside. The fact that a revolution has already started is because of us - so do not wear the cap if it does not fit.

[Aftab]

If a revolution is to happen, it will happen only from the inside.

Why do we have to term this as an inside or an out side job. We are not in the second world war fighting the Nazis to warrant an under ground resistance movement. What are you afraid of what do you have to fear?

[Humsafar]

Zulfiqar,

The whole issue is pointless. Please let's not get hung up on who's 'inside' and who's 'outside'. All of us have a role to play and we need to work together and not compete with one another in guts and heroism.

Anajmi is right, I was only trying to explain the "reformist" activity on this board. However, it is a fact that most of the anti-sayedna abuse comes from the so-called "closet" reformists because they act as individuals and feel little obligation towards the reform movement.

All reformists - inside or outside - have the obligation to understand the official reformist agenda and policy and act accordingly. Only with this common understanding and solidarity can we act together in unison towards the same goal.

I'm sorry if I've offended my "closet" reformist friends in any way. Your every act of defiance, resistance and non-cooperation no matter how small paves the way towards our ultimate goal. We are all inside or outside, either by choice or circumstance it doesn't matter so long as we keep doing the right thing. We need more of you inside, as anajmi said. More power to you.

[Aftab]

Humsafar,

Let us not mince our words or offer an apology. It really hurts them when we expose them as fencers - let us call a spade a spade.

[anajmi]

Aftab,

What are you afraid of what do you have to fear?

I don't fear anything or anybody, least of all the kothar. I am not an insider or a reformist as I agree with neither. I have been "baraated" a long time back and I don't give a $hit.

[Aftab]

I don't fear anything or anybody, least of all the kothar. I am not an insider or a reformist as I agree with neither. I have been "baraated" a long time back and I don't give a $hit.

Blatant lie - If you did not give a shit, why are you on the site and wasting your time and energy? We are definately here for a reason and it is suprising to note that you are so much here and do not care!

[anajmi]

All right, I give a $hit. Now shut up and let the others have a meaningful discussion.

[Aftab]

All right, I give a $hit. Now shut up and let the others have a meaningful discussion.

What else is new? By shutting me up you are just a wee short of lanaat.

[observer]

I do not contribute much these days but I read the board. Now Aftab the change movement is not a competition and we all have to work together to gnaw at the decadent institution we are fighting. No point challenging insiders to come out and calling them fence sitters. Lately, I have reflected a lot on the movement and agree with Anjami that if change is going to come it is going to be from the inside. The institution has to implode. It is too powerful to change by confrontation because the level of understanding of our religion and rights is limited because it is driven through our mothers who are always worried about marriages and death and that piece of paper you need to take with you when you die. Also the Kothar is laying the groundwork for a long battle ahead and a perpetual brainwashing of our children at the madressas and teaching them the worship of a demigod. Producing their Jamea clones who tehy send all over teh world. It is a long road ahead and will not happen during our lifetime I think, but we have started. Hopefully as the level of education in the community increases the memeber on the inside will ask the questions without fear. Kothar sells fear and they package it nicely and do not leave room for the followers to think for themselves. Look at how many majlis we have to draw the crowd almost two or three times to the mosque. Also who had heard about a 40 day celebration from Milad to Milad. When I was young the only time I went to masjid was during Muhurram. We are in this one for the long haul becasue we are up against a very powerful institution. They control knowledge, process and are very rich. Patience is what we need. It may happen earlier if the institution implodes from the inside not through the efforts of the insiders but if some Bhaisaheb rises up (remember Taizoon Bhaisaheb who was just about killed) Anajmai has a point. We cannot rise up because this is not a peoples' revolution where one group is displaced and another takes over power. It is not about replacing people. It is about replacing a group that has held on to religious knowledge and kept it in the family. If we rise up and have a confrontation what next? We cannot run this institution because we do not have the religious knowledge except for a few among us. But if we take over we have to deliver. How do we do that? We do not hae the religious knowledge. We will have to split. Since we beleive in the institution of the Dai we have to remain here and work from the iniside and may be Allah will be kind on us down trodden Bohoras and provide a leader from within the institution to challenge their own. So struggle on my friends victory is not even in sight.

[anajmi]

By shutting me up

I am not shutting you up. Only the Admin can do that. I am simply telling you to shut up.

Now please, (this time I am asking) shut up. Let this be the bigger issue that it is and do not make it an easy target for the abdes.

[East Africawalla]

Aftab, shut up

[Aftab]

Regular
Member # 661

posted April 28, 2008 01:23 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What was the reason that you became a reformist?

Anajmi – this simple question of yours has made me ponder further. I am a reformist because of my circumstance in life and my conditioning. Similarly, Al Zulfiqar is an insider for the same conditioning as mine and that applies to you as well for what ever stance you have taken. We are here because of our pain, I have been pained for being excommunicated and Al Zulfiqar is facing the same pain from staying inside. That does not make any body’s pain smaller or larger, it still is a pain. We should be fighting this pain collectively and not fighting each other.

I have also reflected on your statement that if there is any change that will happen, it will have to come from with in. I now believe that that is so true. I have the same quarrel with other issues with my family and after reflection; we come to realize that the fight is unnecessary. Nobody’s war is greater than anybody else’s wars.

I am deeply sorry to you Anajmi and Al Zulfiqar to have offended you. I have realized that I have mentioned humility and have shown none. This is nothing but hypocrisy from my part. I am truly obliged to both of you to have come on this board and opened my eyes. We are the family of this web. Please keep on posting and enlighten us. We definitely need that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 52

[Al Zulfiqar]

aftab,

let me clarify that i have personally not suffered any pain at the hands of the kothar, but i have seen my father pained. not so much at the harassment they caused him, but more at all the dismantling of all that we had always held dear, our integrity as a community, our religious traditions, and our values.

the culture of sycophancy which resulted from the likes of taher saifuddin and after him his son, the lies and deceit, the shameless loot and the terrorising of simple bohras, these were issues that deeply affected his psyche and often he felt that even Allah had abandoned him, although his faith upto the end remained firm.

as i have already explained, i have no circumstances holding me back within the community, i have sytematically reduced most of my ties to this community, in terms of business, residence, friendships or communal involvement. i also do not pay anything into the coffers of the evil kothar. the only thing holding me back is the single thought... why should i leave when i am right? let those thugs and criminals who have usurped my house leave! why should i give up without a fight to take back what is mine?

[Aftab]

Al Zulfikar – our stance is similar to your father’s stance. It is not so much as to what has been done to us personally but what has been done to the community. As mentioned before, we will not rest until each and every bohra is freed from his clutches. And there are many bohras who are not in the kind of fortunate circumstances as we are to oppose this tyrant. I am so relieved to know that you are non conformist and you do not pay as increasing their coffers result in further violence.

Humsafar has asked you some relevant questions and he suggests that you might be more on the out side than from inside. However, that is not the larger issue. The larger issue is not to conform and I applaud you for that.