The True Imam - How would you verify?

[progticide]

Porus bhai, i have high respect for you and will always be there.

Doctor saheb,
Strangely you have respect for a person who neither respects your articles of Faith nor your Imams nor the Dais nor the dawat which you espouse to be following.

Ahle bayt se walayat ka kya anokha namoona pesh kar rahe ho aap. Wah Wah.

[Adam]

But there are multiple Da'i available, Dawoodi, Sulemani, alavi and Nagpuri.

HEHE. There you go stranger.
So how would you verify the Imam? Which one of the Dais mentioned above would you run to to verify the Imam?

In that Case, How would Imam(as) conclude that which chain of Dai belongs to Truely appointed Da'is till date ?

The Imam is the one who appointed the Duaat. He knows which one is the correct one.

OUR DAI, will verify our Imam for us.

You guys can just continue to be confused.

[abde53]

Porus
1. No Imam ever appointed Dai al-Mutlaq.

Adam
The Imam is the one who appointed the Duaat. He knows which one is the correct one.

adam bhai
now i am confused about if imam appointed dai, who is right? adam bhai tell us that porus is wrong and give him the proof to shut up.

[stranger]

The Imam is the one who appointed the Duaat. He knows which one is the correct one. OUR DAI, will verify our Imam for us. You guys can just continue to be confused.

Bro Adam,
My questions is not WHO will verify true Da'i, it was HOW will Imam verify the true Da'i ?
It is the Imam who appointed Da'i but Our last Imam appointed our first Da'i. After that we have gone thru inter bohra schism many times resulting in multiple sect lead by multiple Da'is. So how will Imam know that which is the True Da'i of today ?

[ghulam muhammed]

Dawoodi Bohra belief.The Dai will verify his followers towards the True Imam

As in case of the first Satr, the Imam send Dais namely Abi Sufyaan AS & Dai Hulwanni RA, Dai Ab al Qasim RA & Dai Abi Adullah RA to carry out the preparations and communication for Zuhoor.

NOW..... ANSWER THIS AND DONT RUN AWAY LIKE A COWARD :-

The topic will definately remain alive unless abdes like Adam are not able to refute the claims of Dai Abe Abdellah's fallibility and his spat with the Imam as questioned by porus !!

[porus]

- As in case of the first Satr, the Imam send Dais namely Abi Sufyaan AS & Dai Hulwanni RA, Dai Ab al Qasim RA & Dai Abi Adullah RA to carry out the preparations and communication for Zuhoor.

So, the Imam will send Dais in preparation for Zuhoor?

Will these Dais be superior in rank to Dai al-Mutlaq?

Which Fatimi book mentions this process?

[anajmi]

The Imam is the one who appointed the Duaat. He knows which one is the correct one.

OUR DAI, will verify our Imam for us.

No, my Dai Futlak will verify our Imam for us because the Imam appointed my Dai Futlak. The Imam knows that my Dai Futlak is the correct Dai and my Dai Futlak will identify the correct Imam. We will know the Imam is the correct Imam because he will verify my Dai Futlak as the correct Dai and we know my Dai Futlak is the correct Dai because he was appointed by the correct Imam whom he will identify as the correct Imam. We will know he is the correct Imam because he will be identified by the correct Dai who is my Dai Futlak.

[Hussain_KSA]

In continuation of Br. Stranger, After Hurat Al Maleka no Dai has known the whereabouts of Imam. So in essence Dai doesn't know who is the Imam or where he is. So how will he verify, if some one claims to be the Imam. Is their any process or tests mentioned in any books.

Syyedi va Molai va Mukasir Sahab; Aaka Khan Ji ibn Feer Ji, Udaipur has given names of Fatimi Imams after Molana Imam Tayyeb (a).

Brother Doctor,
This is really very interesting. Could you kindly back up your claim by providing any reference except waez, majlis or Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raaj saheb's book as the orthos will not accept this proof.

[progticide]

The Imam is the one who appointed the Duaat. He knows which one is the correct one. OUR DAI, will verify our Imam for us. You guys can just continue to be confused.

Bro Adam,
My questions is not WHO will verify true Da'i, it was HOW will Imam verify the true Da'i ?
It is the Imam who appointed Da'i but Our last Imam appointed our first Da'i. After that we have gone thru inter bohra schism many times resulting in multiple sect lead by multiple Da'is. So how will Imam know that which is the True Da'i of today ?

Stranger,
The True Imam is in Satr. You have misunderstood this with ghaib. Understand the difference first. Imam in Satr means the identity of the Imam (Imam uz zamaan and not the 21st Imam with whom satr started) is concealed and it is not known to ordinary people outside his cabinet which includes other higher dignitaries of Dawat who are also in Satr with the Imam. The Imam uz zamaan is very much amongst our midst but we do not know his True identity. Which means he is aware of everything, every decision, every problem, every solution, every news, every affairs of the Dawat. So, ofcourse he already knows who are the false Dais other than the True one who is appointed through his authority. So, the question how the Imam would know which is the true Dai is totally absurd since the authentic Dais, appointed one after another is not outside the knowledge of the Imam of the time.

Thus, coming back to your root question, it is clear that the Imam does not require to find out who the True Dai is since he very well knows his representative in every age and era.

But since we do not know the identity of the True Imam, our only guide and light on the path to reaching and submitting ourselves to the True Imam, whenever the time comes, shall be the Dai-e-Mutlaq of the time. And since this ultimate & critical task assigned to the Dai has to be performed precisely and accurately and flawlessly by the Dai-e-Mutlaq, infallibility becomes a basic characteristic of the Dai-e-Mutlaq's personality.

[Muslim First]

The True Imam is in Satr. You have misunderstood this with ghaib. Understand the difference first. Imam in Satr means the identity of the Imam (Imam uz zamaan and not the 21st Imam with whom satr started) is concealed and it is not known to ordinary people outside his cabinet which includes other higher dignitaries of Dawat who are also in Satr with the Imam. The Imam uz zamaan is very much amongst our midst but we do not know his True identity. Which means he is aware of everything, every decision, every problem, every solution, every news, every affairs of the Dawat. So, ofcourse he already knows who are the false Dais other than the True one who is appointed through his authority.

Fairy tale

[stranger]

Stranger,
The True Imam is in Satr. You have misunderstood this with ghaib. Understand the difference first. Imam in Satr means the identity of the Imam (Imam uz zamaan and not the 21st Imam with whom satr started) is concealed and it is not known to ordinary people outside his cabinet which includes other higher dignitaries of Dawat who are also in Satr with the Imam.

Yea, i know that the Imam is in Satr, not ghaib and Imam uz zaman ( the current Imam of era), who is from the progeny of Imam Taiyeb is present between us, as per the Dawoodi-bohra belief.
Thou thanks for information as you have explained it very fine.

But then always few questions keep on arises in the mind :-
1.) Is Imam uz Zaman in physical contact with our current Da'i (TUS) ?
2.) If Imam uz Zaman was there and each Da'i had been appointed with the authority of Imam of the time then why inter-bohra schism happend at all ?
3.) OK, It happend, then why didn't Imam uz Zaman came forward and encouraged the people to bring to the true fold of dawa'at, why they were left to go astray. ?
4.) If today, our Dai (TUS) or highest echelon of Dawa't are in contact with Imam uz Zaman then why they don't give its proof to the other bohra sects and invite them to the true path of Haq ?
5.) last but not least, what has been keeping Imam uz Zaman to remain in Satr and abstain from his follower ?

[SBM]

The Imam uz zamaan is very much amongst our midst but we do not know his True identity. Which means he is aware of everything, every decision, every problem, every solution, every news, every affairs of the Dawat.

Prog
So my question and please do not take iT in sarcasm or maligned tone but if Imam Uz Zamaan is very much amongst us and he is aware of every decision,every problem,every solution and every news and affair of the dawat then
EITHER HE DOES NOT CARE ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING WRONG IN DAWAT OR MOST IMPORTANT NOT HAPPY WITH THE WAY CURRENTLY DAWAT IS BEING RUN AND MAY NOT WANT TO MAKE ZAHOOR IF HE IS NOT PLEASED AND MAY BE CONVEYING HIS DISPLEASURE TO THE DAIS OF THE TIME THEN WE SURELY KNOW THAT DAI BEING NOT HAPPY WILL NEVER VERIFY THAT TRUE IMAM AS IMAM IS NO DANCING AT THE TUNES OF TAINTED DAI AND HIS GOONS

[anajmi]

And since this ultimate & critical task assigned to the Dai has to be performed precisely and accurately and flawlessly by the Dai-e-Mutlaq, infallibility becomes a basic characteristic of the Dai-e-Mutlaq's personality.

That is precisely the reason why my Dai-e-Futlaq is infallible and he is more infallible than the other Dais because he is the one appointed by the true Imam. And the reason he is infallible is because he can remember which Imam to identify when the Imam comes. God forbid if he identifies the wrong guy as the Imam, then the Imam will have to go back into Satr or the Dai himself might get whacked like Abi Abdullah got whacked by the Imam that he identified. So, my Dai is infallible Dai Futlak more infallible than Abi Abdullah.

[Doctor]

Brother Doctor,
This is really very interesting. Could you kindly back up your claim by providing any reference except waez, majlis or Shaikh Ahmed Ali Raaj saheb's book as the orthos will not accept this proof.

Dear Hussain bhai,

In this website, under menu 'Bohras' go to 'Bohra Literature', there is book with title "Wazkur fil kitaab Ismail", in it go to page# 25, following is mentioned: Moal'e Khanji Pheer sahib (r) ki likhi hoovi eik kitaab me aapne Molana Idrees Imaduddin, 19th Dai-ul-Satar ki sanad se Molana Tayyeb (a) ke baad qayam hone wale Imamo ke yeh naam likhe hai: 1. Ahmed, 2. Mohammed, 3. Abdullah, 4. Hussain, 5. Ma'ad, 6. Nizaar,....

So, it is not Sheikh Ahmed Ali Raj words but from Molana Idrees Imaduddin (r), to which all Bohras including Shabab Bohras too consider correct.

Shabab group (Burhanuddin sahib) group is NOT orthodox bohras, they are FANCY Bohras as they abide by whims and fancies of Kothar.

Roshan Khayal Jamat, Malegaon and Udaipur Bohra Youth are indeed the orthodox Bohras who abide by the tenets of Dawoodi Bohras.

[porus]

O, Dear

This astounding ignorance about the Imam can readily explained. The reason is that Bohras have to reach the ranks of OT-III before they will become aware that Imam is none other than Xenu himself

Now, Xenu has uncharacteristic sonic resemblance to Zainu, the grand-daddy of all the current Dais. Xenu was overthrown from his rightful place by rebels known as Guffar (Laanat). Xenu is hiding in a mountain cave on another planet where he is busy preaching true Islam to his followers who are also hiding with him. Xenu is in telepathic communication with Bayt-e-Zaini, his representatives here on Earth.

Special sabaks are being taught to clear 'select' members of Bayt-e-Zaini for final triumph of Xenu when he returns to earth along with his hidden companions. These 'select' members have already reached the rank of OT-II. So, please let us be patient.

"Inna Xenu ma'a as-sabireen" (sadaqa Xenu)

[Hussain_KSA]

Brother Doctor, There is a little mistake in that book "wazkur fi kitabe ismail" please correct it in next addition. The chain of imam after Imam Mustali is Imam Aamir ( in the book the name of Imam is written " Mansoor") I believe it is typo.

[porus]

Sorry, my mistake. I took sanad to mean dhurriyat.

[Doctor]

Brother Doctor, There is a little mistake in that book "wazkur fi kitabe ismail" please correct it in next addition. The chain of imam after Imam Mustali is Imam Aamir ( in the book the name of Imam is written " Mansoor") I believe it is typo.

Thanks Hussain bhai for suggesting correction. May Almighty Allah bless you.

[porus]

In this website, under menu 'Bohras' go to 'Bohra Literature', there is book with title "Wazkur fil kitaab Ismail", in it go to page# 25, following is mentioned: Moal'e Khanji Pheer sahib (r) ki likhi hoovi eik kitaab me aapne Molana Idrees Imaduddin, 19th Dai-ul-Satar ki sanad se Molana Tayyeb (a) ke baad qayam hone wale Imamo ke yeh naam likhe hai: 1. Ahmed, 2. Mohammed, 3. Abdullah, 4. Hussain, 5. Ma'ad, 6. Nizaar,....

So, it is not Sheikh Ahmed Ali Raj words but from Molana Idrees Imaduddin (r), to which all Bohras including Shabab Bohras too consider correct.

Are these names those of Imams who immediately succeeded Imam al-Tayyib? Has any other Dai, before or after the 19th, mentioned them?

Can you please let us know when Molai Khanji Pheer Sahib lived and what was his relationship with Daawat? Thank you.

[porus]

In the copy available on this website, "Wazkur fil kitaab Ismail" is headed with a letter in his own hand-writing by Rasulullah, which is from a Museum in Hyderabad.

[Doctor]

In this website, under menu 'Bohras' go to 'Bohra Literature', there is book with title "Wazkur fil kitaab Ismail", in it go to page# 25, following is mentioned: Moal'e Khanji Pheer sahib (r) ki likhi hoovi eik kitaab me aapne Molana Idrees Imaduddin, 19th Dai-ul-Satar ki sanad se Molana Tayyeb (a) ke baad qayam hone wale Imamo ke yeh naam likhe hai: 1. Ahmed, 2. Mohammed, 3. Abdullah, 4. Hussain, 5. Ma'ad, 6. Nizaar,....

So, it is not Sheikh Ahmed Ali Raj words but from Molana Idrees Imaduddin (r), to which all Bohras including Shabab Bohras too consider correct.

Are these names those of Imams who immediately succeeded Imam al-Tayyib? Has any other Dai, before or after the 19th, mentioned them?

Can you please let us know when Molai Khanji Pheer Sahib lived and what was his relationship with Daawat? Thank you.

Yes, Porus bhai, these are the names of Imam who immediately succeeded Molana Imam Tayyeb (a).

Approx 300 years ago was the era of Mola'e Syyedi Khan Jo Pheer (r), died on 2nd Mohrram H1118.

He was Mukasir.

[porus]

Yes, Porus bhai, these are the names of Imam who immediately succeeded Molana Imam Tayyeb (a).

Approx 300 years ago was the era of Mola'e Syyedi Khan Jo Pheer (r), died on 2nd Mohrram H1118.

He was Mukasir.

Thank you, Doctor bhai. This book will be interesting reading. Let me read and if I have questions, I will raise theme here. Thanks.

[Humsafar]

Proggies, still not sure or very confused about the answer

Dai: This is your new Imam.
Reformists: OK, that's great.
Dai: Do you accept his as your Imam?
Reformists: Yes, we accept him as our Imam.

[progticide]

Sorry, my mistake. I took sanad to mean dhurriyat.

Similarly, you took;
Mumin to mean Mushrik,
Masoom to mean corrupt,
Satr to mean Never coming,
Qisas Ul Anbiya to mean Fables,
etc..etc...

It is called AIDS (Acquired Imaan Deficiency Syndrome). Symptoms are like yours when one is totally out of mind.

[progticide]

Proggies, still not sure or very confused about the answer

Dai: This is your new Imam.
Reformists: OK, that's great.
Dai: Do you accept his as your Imam?
Reformists: Yes, we accept him as our Imam.

Humsafar,
You have yourself highlighted the difference between you and DBs. I don't know which Dai are you talking about above. Maybe this is a Dai created by you and your types. Therefore, the joke is crystal clear to a naked-eye also.

Humsafar's Dai: This is your new Imam. (So for record purpose kindly tell us how many Imams you keep changing. Because a New Imam would mean that you are replacing some old one with a new one. Also, your Dai is telling you that this is Your new Imam, not Our new Imam, so your Dai himself does not follow this new Imam who he is introducing to you).

I know, you have realised your folly but as always you won't accept. Instead you or one of your Idiotic Chamcha would now post some more rubbish with greater intensity just to repair your damaged ego.

I guess, it's high time for you to leave whatever and whichever so-called Dais you have invented, and start following DB Dai.

[anajmi]

Let me say what Humsafar is trying to say and Humsafar will repeat it.

DB Dai: This is your old/new/original/true/infalible/mustakar/mustauda/haazir/naazir Imam.
Reformists: OK, that's great.
DB Dai: Do you accept him as your Imam?
Reformists: Yes, we accept him as our Imam.

[porus]

Let me say what Humsafar is trying to say and Humsafar will repeat it.

DB Dai: This is your old/new/original/true/infalible/mustakar/mustauda/haazir/naazir Imam.
Reformists: OK, that's great.
DB Dai: Do you accept him as your Imam?
Reformists: Yes, we accept him as our Imam.

More correctly,

DB Dai: This is our old/new/original/true/infalible/mustakar/mustauda/haazir/naazir Imam.
Reformists: OK, that's great.
DB Dai: Do you accept him as our Imam?
Reformists: Yes, we accept him as our Imam.

[Humsafar]

Humsafar's Dai: This is your new Imam. (So for record purpose kindly tell us how many Imams you keep changing. Because a New Imam would mean that you are replacing some old one with a new one. Also, your Dai is telling you that this is Your new Imam, not Our new Imam, so your Dai himself does not follow this new Imam who he is introducing to you).

For record purpose, ask the Dai, he said that.

[Adam]

DB Dai: This is our old/new/original/true/infalible/mustakar/mustauda/haazir/naazir Imam.
Reformists: OK, that's great.

So why don't you currently follow the DB Dai, if you know his judgement is correct?
And you intend to follow the same Dai you insult? And whose beliefs, practices and history you disobey?

[stranger]

Yea, i know that the Imam is in Satr, not ghaib and Imam uz zaman ( the current Imam of era), who is from the progeny of Imam Taiyeb is present between us, as per the Dawoodi-bohra belief.
Thou thanks for information as you have explained it very fine.

But then always few questions keep on arises in the mind :-
1.) Is Imam uz Zaman in physical contact with our current Da'i (TUS) ?
2.) If Imam uz Zaman was there and each Da'i had been appointed with the authority of Imam of the time then why inter-bohra schism happend at all ?
3.) OK, It happend, then why didn't Imam uz Zaman came forward and encouraged the people to bring to the true fold of dawa'at, why they were left to go astray. ?
4.) If today, our Dai (TUS) or highest echelon of Dawa't are in contact with Imam uz Zaman then why they don't give its proof to the other bohra sects and invite them to the true path of Haq ?
5.) last but not least, what has been keeping Imam uz Zaman to remain in Satr and abstain from his follower ?

Knock Knock -- Bro Adam & Bro Progticide looking forward to hear your part of knowledge on above.