A Good read by Asghar Ali Engineer

[Hanif]

You buy it, I don't.

According to you then, the prophet (saw) is not qualified to be a prophet as he didn't explain the meaning of Alif Laam Meem. So, it doesn't really matter whether you buy it or not, that is the fact!! And any Imam who pretends to know and give you the meaning of Alif Laam Meem, is a liar.

How do you know the Prophet SAW did not explain the meaning of Alif Laam Meem. Just because your Mualim says so? And how do you know that any Imam who gives the meaning thereof is a liar when You Yourself don't know the meaning?

Give us the meaning then we can compare to what my sheikh taught us so that we can judge who is a liar and who is not.

[Hanif]

Your knowledge of Arabic does not impress me.

My knowledge of Arabic is not to impress you, but to understand what God wants from us so I don't have to rely on being judged on arbitrary standards set by weaklings and cowards who can't fast for the sake of Allah.

Have you ever noticed that "Allah will be the judge" argument is always presented by people who want to wiggle out of the commandments of Allah? People who don't want to fast will say "Allah will be the judge", people who don't want to pray will say "Allah will be the judge". This inspite of the fact that Allah says in the Quran that it is the Furqaan. It is the book that differentiates between what is right and what is wrong. The judgement is already there in the Quran!!! Allah will be the judge, yes, for that which is not clear. For things that are clear, the judgement is clear too!! Allah says in the Quran that you should fast so that you may attain taqwa. Allah says fasting is better for you. The prophet (saw) has listed down all the advantages of fasting and then we still have people saying "Allah will be the judge"!! A person who avoids fasting for no reason is not going to attain taqwa. Plain and simple. And for those who do not wish to attain taqwa, the judgement is clear.

The problem with these "Allah will be the judge" people is that they do not consider fasting to be an act of worship. They consider it to be a ritual. A ritual that can be substituted or made easier. It is not a ritual. It is an act of worship.

Sorry to say, nothing you say impresses me. You think you know it all, but you don't. You just read what you want to read. I said I fast but not not for 15 to 20 hours. I have never missed a fast in my life. But I fast 12 hours max. Now this is between me and Allah SWT not because I want to wiggle out of stupid argument with you but because I know Allah SWT is Most Merciful and Most Compassionate and loves us dearly. Like a parent who does not want to inconvenience his child, Allah loves everybody and he looks at your deeds and your niyah.

People like you are despised by Allah SWT because you are cruel, mean, judgemental, foul mouth and despicable.

You do not know how to debate without putting anybody down.

Brother Muslim First,

Thank you for providing the link. I studied the link no. 2 sometime ago. There is nothing crazy in that. It is just an explanation of Alif, Laam Meem. Brother Anajmi always thinks or is afraid that there must be something in such stuff because the Bohoras question ? He tremebles that it would refer to their Dai or their Imam.

Hope he reads it and pacifies himself.

[anajmi]

I have never missed a fast in my life. But I fast 12 hours max.

Unfortunately for you, every day that was longer than 12 hours is a missed fast. You might not like that, but that is the truth. Truth normally doesn't impress people accustomed to falsehood.

I know Allah SWT is Most Merciful and Most Compassionate and loves us dearly.

Apparently, he doesn't love you enough. I met another guy who fasts only for 3 hours. Allah obviously loves him more. And accty doesn't fast as all, he is obviously the most loved one.

How do you know the Prophet SAW did not explain the meaning of Alif Laam Meem.

Well, if he did, then you wouldn't have to ask me or my muallims for its meaning now would you?

Give us the meaning then we can compare to what my sheikh taught us so that we can judge who is a liar and who is not.

Any meaning that your sheikh has given you is either a speculation as in the links given by bro Muslim First, or an outright lie. I am leaning towards lie, because he has ok'ed your 12 hour fasts!! Ask your sheikh to quote the prophet (saw).

Allah says in the Quran, and I know this is not going to impress you for the reasons I have stated before, and again right at the beginning of surah baqara

2:2 THIS DIVINE WRIT - let there be no doubt about it is [meant to be] a guidance for all the God-conscious.
2:3 Who believe in [the existence of] that which is beyond the reach of human perception, [3] and are constant in prayer, and spend on others out of what We provide for them as sustenance
2:4 And who believe in that which has been bestowed from on high upon thee, [O Prophet,] as well as in that which was bestowed before thy time: [5] for it is they who in their innermost are certain of the life to come! -

So you see, for the muttaqeen, the requirement is to believe in that which was bestowed from Allah to the prophet (saw) as well as in that which was bestowed before the time of the prophet (saw). A muttaqee is not required to believe in what was bestowed onto your sheikh!!

[anajmi]

He tremebles that it would refer to their Dai or their Imam.

I already know that the bohra meaning of Alif Laam Meem refers to their Dai or their Imam. The bohra meaning of Alif Laam Meem has been discussed on this board before. Do a search. And now that you mention it, I am trembling. I guess I should go do some salaam and feet kissing!!!

[sixfeetunder]

If verse 2:184 is to interpreted in the manner of Brother 'Accountability', no rich person would ever fast! Every rich person would feed one poor person and remain gluttonous! But Allah's commands are for all - Rich and poor alike. He does not differentiate. Piety is the only criteria for him.

Allah is merciful, sure! That is the reason why he has exempted old, weak, expecting mothers, people with certain diseases and lactating mothers etc. from fasting!! Fasting long days is tough, agreed. But Allah's reward would also be handsome! The tougher the fast, the more the benefits. One would develop super self-restraint. One cannot make rules like a '12 hour fast'! Look at the Christians - how most of them make a mockery of fasting during 'Lent'.

Allah is the judge - Sure, he is! But interpreting the verses to suit ones desires is wrong. If you are interpreting on your whims and making man-made laws, then don't expect his great mercy as you never obeyed him in the first place!

[Aymelek]

I said I fast but not not for 15 to 20 hours. I have never missed a fast in my life. But I fast 12 hours max. Now this is between me and Allah SWT not because I want to wiggle out of stupid argument with you but because I know Allah SWT is Most Merciful and Most Compassionate and loves us dearly.

Br. Hanif,

At one place we believe that Quran contains all the knowledge and that Muhammad is a prophet for all people for all times. So how did it happen that thru both these sources, Allah never mentioned that fast for 12 hours max, coz Allah for sure knew difference in day lengths in different regions.

So if despite knowing the long ad short day hours, Allah commanded to fast from dawn to dusk and not specific hours, HE clearly wanted his faithfuls to fast long hours and short hours whatever applicable. You can't override HIS command, based on your assumptions. On the other hand, if you have a medical condition which prohibits you from fasting longer than 12 hours then for sure Allah is most merciful.

[Muslim First]

One cannot make rules like a '12 hour fast'! Look at the Christians - how most of them make a mockery of fasting during 'Lent'.

Why look at Christion, just look at Agkhani Ismailies. They do nt fast bacuse some Imam of theirs declared 'qayamat' and ordered no fasting in Ramadan. They mock Islamic Fasting like Hanif and AC.
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... ht=fasting

kmaherali
Posts: 9299
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:53 pm    Post subject: Fasting

Ali_765 wrote:
"As Ismailis we were released from all shariati binds by Imam Alazikhrisalaam approximately 1000 yrs ago."
Is this true...and if so, what for what reasons?
Fasting for the month of Ramadan is one of the pillars of Islam and is written in the Qu'ran, we are Muslims so why wouldnt we fast in Ramadan?

I did refer you to my article on our interpretation of faith when answering your question about Namaz. Did it help in understanding the issues?

As I mentioned in it, our Sharia is not based on the Sunna, rather it is based on the Firmans of the Imam.

As mentioned elsewhere, HazarImam does not have to give a reason to change the practise of faith.

[ghulam muhammed]

Someone on this forum had expressed a sudden liking for the Bahai sect as they too believed in the hidden Imam although their logic was absurd. Now see how the Bahais fast religiously to align themselves with muslims but at the same time make a mockery of it :-

The Bahá'í Fast

As has been the case with other revealed religions, the Bahá'í Faith sees great value in the practice of fasting as a discipline for the soul . Bahá'u'lláh designated a nineteen-day period each year when adult Bahá'ís fast from sunrise to sunset each day. This period coincides with the Bahá'í month of Ala (meaning Loftiness), from March 2 to 20, inclusive. This is the month immediately preceding the Bahá'í new year, which occurs the day of the vernal equinox; and the period of fasting is therefore viewed as a time of spiritual preparation and regeneration for a new year's activities. Women who are nursing or pregnant, the aged, the sick, the traveler, those engaged in heavy labor, as well as children under the age of fifteen, are exempt from observance of the Fast.

"The fasting period, which lasts nineteen days starting as a rule from the second of March every year and ending on the twentieth of the same month, involves complete abstention from food and drink from sunrise till sunset. It is essentially a period of meditation and prayer, of spiritual recuperation, during which the believer must strive to make the necessary readjustments in his inner life, and to refresh and reinvigorate the spiritual forces latent in his soul. Its significance and purpose are, therefore, fundamentally spiritual in character. Fasting is symbolic, and a reminder of abstinence from selfish and carnal desires."

http://info.bahai.org/article-1-4-7-2.html

[Hanif]

One cannot make rules like a '12 hour fast'! Look at the Christians - how most of them make a mockery of fasting during 'Lent'.

Why look at Christion, just look at Agkhani Ismailies. They do nt fast bacuse some Imam of theirs declared 'qayamat' and ordered no fasting in Ramadan. They mock Islamic Fasting like Hanif and AC.
http://www.ismaili.net/html/modules.php ... ht=fasting

kmaherali
Posts: 9299
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:53 pm    Post subject: Fasting

I did refer you to my article on our interpretation of faith when answering your question about Namaz. Did it help in understanding the issues?

As I mentioned in it, our Sharia is not based on the Sunna, rather it is based on the Firmans of the Imam.

As mentioned elsewhere, HazarImam does not have to give a reason to change the practise of faith.

Brother Muslim First, I did not mock fasting. I believe the Qur'an was was revealed in Saudi Arabia where days are not so long so Allah SWT did not fix the time of fasting instead He said from dawn to dusk. But had the Qur'an been revealed in North Pole or South Pole, the message might have been diferent. That is why he has said to use our Aql. Now tell me how do the people in the North Pole observe Ramadhan?

Unlike you I do not base my judgement of a religion on the basis of their bloggers. There are a lot of Sunni bloggers who believe in the most stupid things.

Having siad that, I think there are 10 million Ismailis in the world or may be more. For every one Ismmaili, I can provide you two Sunnis or twelvers who do not fast. I know a Bangladeshi couple who spends their time in the Casino during Ramadhan. However, I am not going to judge them. That is up to Allah SWT.

One thing about the bohoras is, that they sincerely observe their fasts. May be they are small in numbers, but I believe that at least 80% of them fast. They are very disciplined.

[anajmi]

Brother Muslim First, I did not mock fasting. I believe the Qur'an was was revealed in Saudi Arabia where days are not so long so Allah SWT did not fix the time of fasting instead He said from dawn to dusk. But had the Qur'an been revealed in North Pole or South Pole, the message might have been diferent. That is why he has said to use our Aql. Now tell me how do the people in the North Pole observe Ramadhan?

This could mean one or more of several things,

1) When Allah says that the Quran has been revealed for all of mankind, he was probably joking.
2) The Quran was revealed in Saudi Arabia because Jibrael wasn't able to find the north pole.
3) The Quran was revealed in Saudi Arabia because Allah didn't know about the existence of north pole and the earth's shape.
4) When the Quran was revealed, Allah hadn't created North Pole yet.

Jokes, aside, for places where day is indistinguishable from night, the fatwa by popular Ulemas is for the people to follow the fast timings of Mecca. Where the days are so long that fasting may lead to health issues, the fatwa is to fast on other days when it is manageable and pay fidya. Where I live, the dawn is at 4:49 and Maghrib is at 8:40. My mother is 70 years old and she is eagerly awaiting Ramadan. She came to spend Ramadan with us over here even though I told her to come after Ramadan as the day is shorter in India. And we have able people making silly excuses!!

Having siad that, I think there are 10 million Ismailis in the world or may be more. For every one Ismmaili, I can provide you two Sunnis or twelvers who do not fast. I know a Bangladeshi couple who spends their time in the Casino during Ramadhan. However, I am not going to judge them. That is up to Allah SWT.

Assuming that none of the Ismaili adults fast (60%), there are 12 million mainstream muslims who do not fast out of more than 1.2 billion muslim adults. (http://muslimpopulation.com/World/). That is less than 1%. These numbers are not scientific. Only as scientific as yours.

And it looks like the Bangladeshi couple read your posts about Allah being loving and merciful and decided to spend Ramadan in the Casino because Allah is even more loving and merciful in Ramadan!!

By the way, I went for Isha prayer today and decided to come home after two rakats. For those who do not know, Isha is supposed to be 4 rakats, but since Allah is loving and merciful, it is ok!!

[humanbeing]

Hi
A genuine question.
How does one fulfill a fast in places where days are exceptionally longer. Like 16 – 18 hours and time between Sunset to Sunrise is like 5 – 6 hours only.

[anajmi]

I already live in a place where the days are about 16 hours long. I fast from dawn to dusk as specified in the Quran and by the prophet (saw). I fast 3 days every month. Last month, the day was even longer and the fasts were harder. But I didn't fall sick Alhumdulillah. If you get sick because of fasting, then skip fasts till you get healthy again and cover up missed fasts on other days. If you genuinely believe that you will fall sick if you keep such long fasts (and Allah knows if your belief is genuine or fake to avoid fasting), then you can fast on other days and pay fidya. The bottom line is the weight of your faith. The stronger your faith, the easier your fast. The weaker your faith, the more difficult your fast.

[Muslim First]

Hi
A genuine question.
How does one fulfill a fast in places where days are exceptionally longer. Like 16 – 18 hours and time between Sunset to Sunrise is like 5 – 6 hours only.

Hanif
Brother Muslim First, I did not mock fasting. I believe the Qur'an was was revealed in Saudi Arabia where days are not so long so Allah SWT did not fix the time of fasting instead He said from dawn to dusk. But had the Qur'an been revealed in North Pole or South Pole, the message might have been diferent. That is why he has said to use our Aql. Now tell me how do the people in the North Pole observe Ramadhan?

There is plenty of information on web. One must reserch first and conversation will be more beneficial.

The Ramadan Pole Paradox
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Ramadan_Pole_Paradox

[Hanif]

Thanks for the link brother MF.

However, my question to the diehards on this forum is:
Where is this stated in the Qur'an?

Where is this stated in the ahadith?

And what authority do these Muslims have to set out such rules.

Brother Anajmi, you may respond but my time is precious. I do not read your nonsense on this forum.

[anajmi]

This is what makes me laugh. I live on the equator, but choose not to fast because it is not clear how people on the north pole would fast!! There are some other such fools on earth who do not want to pray because they are not clear about how to find mecca from the moon. Stop praying after you settle on the moon and stop fasting after you move to the north pole!!

And what authority do these Muslims have to set out such rules.

The authority of the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw). Have you heard of something called jurisprudence or fiqh? I guess not. Maybe your sheikh forgot to mention it!!

[anajmi]

http://30mosques.com/wp-content/uploads ... G_8924.jpg

[Muslim First]

And what authority do these Muslims have to set out such rules.

anajmi
The authority of the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw). Have you heard of something called jurisprudence or fiqh? I guess not. Maybe your sheikh forgot to mention it!!

Hanif and Salim happens to be of same persuasion. Their Shaikh is Agakhan and something called "Ginan" and as per their Imam SMS it is "tafseers par excellence of Qur'an."

They are here to mock you, Qur'an and Sunnah.

[Hanif]

anajmi
The authority of the Quran and the Sunnah of the prophet (saw). Have you heard of something called jurisprudence or fiqh? I guess not. Maybe your sheikh forgot to mention it!!

Hanif and Salim happens to be of same persuasion. Their Shaikh is Agakhan and something called "Ginan" and as per their Imam SMS it is "tafseers par excellence of Qur'an."

They are here to mock you, Qur'an and Sunnah.

I was about to defend Bahaullah the Bahai guy but then I saw your post.

As usual you come out with cheap shots. You say Ismailis do not fast. I say I fast and am a Bohora. Now you are telling us that Salim and I are of the same persuasion.

Problem with you is, you play the guessing game. And then you brought out something about Ismaili Ginans and tafseers. I do not know what they are but I will find out by going to the link you provided. And I will come back to you after Ramadhan because unlike you I study everything. I don't google and run to Wikipedia.


May be Salim and I and others on this board are of the same persuasion in that , we do not criticise others beliefs and do NOT SLANDER RELIGIOUS LEADERS OUT OF JEALOUSY. we give credit where it is due. No progressive nor Abdes on this forum criticise anybody's beliefs unless you and the looney start attacking theirs and that too very rarely.

YOU HAVE NOT PROVED AND WILL NEVER PROVE THAT AGHA KHAN TOOK BRIBES FROM MUSLIM leaders. the fact that you have not come up with a response tells us what a liar you are. MUkh ma Mohammed SAW ane Bagal ma churi. Look at people as they are and not as you are. Just because you and the looney bribe forums to keep you alive, doesn't mean everybody is like you. I did not say this, somebody else on the forum said this some time ago.

Sometime back you told me that I was an abde because I defended the DAi, when you wrote the Dai and his litter? Remember that?

Just go fast and when you go in ruku and sujood let my words haunt you, that you are a slanderer and slanderers are despised by Allah SWT.

My 12 hour fasts are better than your 20 hours fasts.

If anybody has mocked the Qur'an and Sunnah it is you. Below is the proof:

You are a slanderer and you have not defended it yourself.

Qur'an says to produce 4 witnesses. Now, wait, uloo will jump up and say he is your witness and will not be able to prove whom the AK bribed. You will need 3 more? Can you find anybody on this forum? If not, bring them from your Sunni forum. I challenge you, nobody will vouch for you.
I quoted you several ayahs from Sura Nur, and you and uloo don't seem to follow. You guys recite the Qur'an like parrots, thats all and so you are the ones mocking the Qur'an.

PNow tell me when did the Prophet SAW ever mock anybody? When did the Asahabas mock anybody? If you can't prove that then you are not following the Sunnah of the Prophet.

So go now and start looking for Chand so you can start your 20 hours fast and mock the Qur'an and Sunnah of the Prophet.

Now, look at my response about the Bahais, because I am now a Bahai.

[Hanif]

Brother GM, Bahais are peaceful people. They believe in Tawheed, and all the Prophets of Islam, and other Prophets i.e. they consider Zoatrastra a Prophet, Hindu s Ram, Buddha, etc. as Prophets. There have been 124,000 prophets in the world and Allah SWT has said that He has sent a Prophet to every nation.

I believe, and I may be wrong, they are a splinter group from the Nizaris. Much much later. May be brother Salim can help us here.Their Imam went into seclusion. I have to go back and look it up.

You are right their fasting ends on 20th of March and they celebrate Norooz . Norooz falls on March 21 of each year and it was observed during the Fatimid Imamat in Egypt also. Fatimid Imams respected all religions and observed their religious Days. Norooz is also observed by some Middle Easterners, Iranians, Afghanis, Central Asians and Armenians.

Bahais are very educated people, and have good family values. They treat their men and women equally. That is something I cannot say about some of our sister faiths. They think they are the chosen ones while committing atrocities against women, innocent people and committing suicide bombings in the name of religion. Then they criticise other peaceful people. These are the ignoramuses with whom we have to share the platform of Islam.

It is always good to learn about other religions without criticising them. What they do and what they believe in is their business. Prophet SAW respected the Christians and Jews during his Naboowat although the former did not.

[anajmi]

Fatimid Imams respected all religions and observed their religious Days.

That would make the Fatimid Imams either mushriks or hypocrites.

The prophet (saw) saw the jews fasting on Ashura and asked their Rabbi why they fast. The Rabbi told him about how Musa saved them from the Pharoah on that day. The prophet (saw) then commented that the prophet Musa (as) was closer to him than the jews and commemorating him was a duty of the muslims as well. However, the prophet (saw) asked them muslims to fast 2 days, a day before or after ashura along with ashura so that we could distinguish ourselves from the practice of the jews. I guess the Fatimid Imams never learnt this lesson from the prophet (saw)!!

It is good for people to learn about other religions, but it is more important for them to learn about their own religion first.

[ghulam muhammed]

Bahais are very educated people, and have good family values. They treat their men and women equally. That is something I cannot say about some of our sister faiths.

Brother GM, Bahais are peaceful people. They believe in Tawheed, and all the Prophets of Islam, and other Prophets i.e. they consider Zoatrastra a Prophet, Hindu s Ram, Buddha, etc. as Prophets. There have been 124,000 prophets in the world and Allah SWT has said that He has sent a Prophet to every nation.

Bro Hanif,

Bahais are educated and peaceful people so are the parsis and I dont dispute your remarks but the moot question is that they are a splinter group of shia islam which originated from Iran and also claim to follow Islamic doctrines and shia doctrines of Imamat. They also quote quranic verses to justify their beliefs. Hence it becomes objectionable when they claim to be muslims and simultanously corrupt the Islamic teachings by various innovative methods which are alien to Islamic faith. Their headquarters are at Haifa, ISRAEL where their founder leader is buried. They are a missionary just like christians who convert mostly adivasis and other scheduled caste hindus in remote villages in India. I have personally attended their lectures and seen the ground reality. Their organisers recieve huge funds from abroad just like how the saudis pump in petro dollars with the sole aim of converting people to their faith. There are also some rich and educated converts most of whom are parsis and also many Dawoodi bohras !!!

[aliabbas_aa]

Their organisers recieve huge funds from abroad just like how the saudis pump in petro dollars with the sole aim of converting people to their faith. There are also some rich and educated converts most of whom are parsis and also many Dawoodi bohras !!!

How can you compare an apostate religion like Bahaism with Islam that is practiced in saudi, it is the most puritanical Islam. Don't be so blind .

[salim]

This could mean one or more of several things,

1) When Allah says that the Quran has been revealed for all of mankind, he was probably joking.
2) The Quran was revealed in Saudi Arabia because Jibrael wasn't able to find the north pole.
3) The Quran was revealed in Saudi Arabia because Allah didn't know about the existence of north pole and the earth's shape.
4) When the Quran was revealed, Allah hadn't created North Pole yet.

Allah can't be wrong but you can be wrong. So may be you need to do more research to understand what Allah said.

[salim]

MF and Anajami,

Quran is not limited to saudi and Quran is not limited to the time when prophet was alive.

Quran should be good for people living in saudi, people living on polar region, or people living in space. Quran was good for the people at the time of prophet, quran is good now and Quran should be good till the day of qayamat.

If we have to modify quran ayat for those who are in space or in polar region then there is something wrong. Since Quran can't be wrong, its how you are interpreting it is wrong.

[salim]

Brother Hanif,

ismaili.net is not the official website of Ismailis. Huge majority of ismailies (almost every ismaili) do not believe the concepts preached there. Aga khan had recently sued them for using his farmans.

Ismailis believe that one should not force anyone to follow anything. Ismaili islam is against Force and compulsion. This is the reason ismaili.net people are still ismailis. While I do not agree with their opinions, I believe that they have right to believe whatever they want to believe in. I have approched them, argued with them and showed them the path which I feel is right. But for ismaili it ends here. We do not release fathwas and force people to believe in our religion.

MF knows about this. I had a long discussion about this in the past, with him. But he still keeps bring ismaili.net as if they represent ismailis. I think Muslims First went to that website and discussed with them about his religion and got ripped off. They showed him enough proofs that his religion is wrong. This hurt him so bad that, now he is going to the places where ismaili.net people don't visit and say bad about them to satisfy his own ego.

[Adam]

Brother Hanif
You've struck the nail right on the head.
What you're saying isn't new. Many, including me, have repeated this multiple times, but "the people you mentioned" will not stop.
They are cynics and their daily practices are only to criticize others. (Throughout this from - The DBs and now the Ismailis).
The Quran teaches us to mind our own business. لكم دينكم و لي دين

I have realized through your posts that you are not a follower of the DB faith (you may have in the past).
You are free to believe whatever you want.
But I respect you for your just, unbiased way of dealing with things.

[anajmi]

Adam,

Do not be worried my brother. I respect you too. People like you have lost all respect being in a constantly bent condition in front of a human with folded hands. People like you should get some respect. You won't get any from your Dai and his goons so I will give you some. May Allah help you stand up straight and raise your hands in front of no one except the one and almight Allah (swt).

[Muslim First]

Salim wrote
MF knows about this. I had a long discussion about this in the past, with him. But he still keeps bring ismaili.net as if they represent ismailis. I think Muslims First went to that website and discussed with them about his religion and got ripped off. They showed him enough proofs that his religion is wrong. This hurt him so bad that, now he is going to the places where ismaili.net people don't visit and say bad about them to satisfy his own ego.

Let me rephrase what Br GM wrote and apply to belief of Koja Ismailis

Ismaili Kojas of Ismaili.net are educated and peaceful people so are the Bahais and parsis and I dont dispute your remarks but the moot question is that they are a subset Of Fatemi shia islam which originated from Africa and also claim to follow Islamic doctrines and shia doctrines of Imamat with living Hazir Imam Agakhan 49. They also quote quranic verses to justify their beliefs. Hence it becomes objectionable when they claim to be muslims and simultanously corrupt the Islamic teachings by various innovative methods which are alien to Islamic faith.

Aga khan sued 2 Ismaili Khojas for publishing his farmans, not for their beliefs. He could not care as long as they keep giving him 12.5%.  He even cannot get them change their Dua to Namaaz.

My goal is to defend Qur'an and Sunnah and Islam as per Prophet. If anybody has problem prove it by Qur'an and authentic Ahadith. Not by shouting Wahabi, Wahabi.

No I do not argue with them on their web site. They do not welcome it.
BTW Ismaili net will not let anybody post AK farmans except few chosen people.

Salim Bhai you are welcome to post true Agakhan Nizaris imamami beliefs in Islam section.

[salim]

If you are defending quran I am always with you. But many times you are not. Sometimes you are trying to impose your dogma that has no base in quran upon others.

[Hanif]

Bahais are very educated people, and have good family values. They treat their men and women equally. That is something I cannot say about some of our sister faiths.

Brother GM, Bahais are peaceful people. They believe in Tawheed, and all the Prophets of Islam, and other Prophets i.e. they consider Zoatrastra a Prophet, Hindu s Ram, Buddha, etc. as Prophets. There have been 124,000 prophets in the world and Allah SWT has said that He has sent a Prophet to every nation.

Bro Hanif,

Bahais are educated and peaceful people so are the parsis and I dont dispute your remarks but the moot question is that they are a splinter group of shia islam which originated from Iran and also claim to follow Islamic doctrines and shia doctrines of Imamat. They also quote quranic verses to justify their beliefs. Hence it becomes objectionable when they claim to be muslims and simultanously corrupt the Islamic teachings by various innovative methods which are alien to Islamic faith. Their headquarters are at Haifa, ISRAEL where their founder leader is buried. They are a missionary just like christians who convert mostly adivasis and other scheduled caste hindus in remote villages in India. I have personally attended their lectures and seen the ground reality. Their organisers recieve huge funds from abroad just like how the saudis pump in petro dollars with the sole aim of converting people to their faith. There are also some rich and educated converts most of whom are parsis and also many Dawoodi bohras !!!

Brother Gulam M.
What makes you the judge of these peaceful people. You say they corrupt Islam,. Do you think they have corrupted Islam more than those who call themselves Muslims and

1. Create wars in the month of Ramadhan

2. Subjugate their women and female girls

3. Commit suicide bombers and kill innocent Shia Muslims going for pilgrimage to Najaf and Kerbala?

4. Create Suicide bombers as young as 14 and 16 years old and BRIBE, their parents with money because these parents do not know better
5.Judge other Muslims and people of different beliefs and kill them like the killing of the Ithnas, Sikhs, Christians in Pakistan
6. Kill innoncent people in Churches, Synagoguse, Temples, etc.

Now tell me whether the Bahai version, or Bohora version, or Ithna version is more corrupt than these.

I have no problem with the Parsis, Hinuds , Ismailis, Ithnas, Bohoras, etc.
However, I have a BIG problem WITH SLANDERERS, PARROTS ON THIS BOARD AND JAHALIYAS who call themselves MAIN STREAM MUSLIMS but are nothing more than chuwas of the gutters.

I do not know of what persuasion you are but I wish you would not be so judgemental of other people's beliefs.


Now, we are all splinter groups. There are 72 sects, which means we have all broken from each other. Do you belong to the one that is the most valid one? Tell me about it. If not then please learn about other faiths instead of judging them.

Most importantly you have just gone against the word of Allah SWT.
In the Holy Qur'an Allah SWT says that He created all of us differently so we can learn about each other and live in harmony. And He said on the day of judgement, He will tell the wrong does where they erred. So leave that to Allah SWT. and learn to live in harmony. That is more better in the eyes of Allah SWT.

All all I see on this Board is pointing fingers at each other and finding faults with other beliefs. So show me a belief you think is the true belief. I will wait to hear from you.

Learn Taqwa brother .