Is vision the only criteria to believe in something.Have you seen this Imam? Has he been teaching anything to you?
This is still a honest answer, that there is a science of hadis which separates true hadis from the false. Using this science false claims could be negatedYeah I know there is a science of hadis and what it is called. Is that the best you answer you could come up with for my question? "I have no clue" would've been a more honest answer!!
If his guidance reaches us similar to the sun's rays which reach us when covered with clouds. Why his representative (Dai) is screwing (sorry to use this word) you guys royally? If his guidance reaches you and other shias why are shias not most just and god fearing community?Our imam is the one who will establish justice and equality on the earth which will be filled with injustice and tyranny. He is alive and his guidance reaches us similar to the sun's rays which reach us when covered with clouds. By the will of allah(swt) he is in Occultation.So who is your Imam? What is his name? Where does he live? If he is hiding then why?
"Whomsoever I am the master Ali(As) is his master"It is easy to follow clear direction from the prophet(pbuh), that is what we are doing. He said- "Whomsoever I am the master Ali(As) is his master" .It is hard not to follow clear direction from Prophet SAW.
That is sweeping accusation can you give one example?Some were actually very intelligent to twist and fabricate the hadis of prophet(pbuh).You mean to say Majority of Sahabas were dumb!!
In other words, you have no clue. Imam has to be present on earth. But he can be unseen? Can you show me where your scientifically authentic hadis talk about faith in unseen Imams?Is vision the only criteria to believe in something.
Let me repeat my original question.This is still a honest answer, that there is a science of hadis which separates true hadis from the false. Using this science false claims could be negated
The existence of shaytan is not a matter of debate because his existence and his misguidance are clearly mentioned in the Quran. Unseen Imams and Dais are not mentioned in the Quran are they? If I were to go by your logic, I will have to believe in hobbits and elves as well!!Where is Shaytan. How does he misguide you. Why do you curse him when you do something wrong. If you can believe in existence of Shaytan a source of misguidance, why not believe in a Imam who is a source of Guidance
Allah(swt)'s infinite mercy reaches everyone on the earth but still People create mischief, that doesn't negate the existence of Allah(Swt)'s mercyIf his guidance reaches us similar to the sun's rays which reach us when covered with clouds. Why his representative (Dai) is screwing (sorry to use this word) you guys royally? If his guidance reaches you and other shias why are shias not most just and god fearing community?
You are correct. Had muslims followed the footsteps of Ali(as), this world would have been a much better place. the small period of Ali(As) khilafat is an example of the sameReally? Looking at shia world it seems Ali's guidance is ignored just as rest of Muslim Ummah.
You have hit the hammer on the nail. Atleast you have a thought that righteousness is associated with following a Master appointed by the prophet(pbuh)It seems Shia would be more rightous since they have a Master annoited by Prophet SAW and also receiving Guidance from invisible Imaam but that is not a fact and there is no difference between them and rest of Ummah.
Prophet(pbuh) said I leave behind two things, quran and ahlulbait...., some sahabi said hasbe-kitabullah (quran is sufficient). This is one of the cause of most of the miseries of muslims.Some were actually very intelligent to twist and fabricate the hadis of prophet(pbuh).
That is sweeping accusation can you give one example?
If you deny event of ghadeer and hadis of mankunto, then probably you should throw out every hadis because the event of ghadeer is the most well documented event by both shias and sunnisI can give one example right away, one about "Whomsoever I am the master Ali(As) is his master"
The issue is not on the debate of shaytan's existence but it was used to explain the rationale of existence of someone who is not seen.The existence of shaytan is not a matter of debate because his existence and his misguidance are clearly mentioned in the Quran. Unseen Imams and Dais are not mentioned in the Quran are they? If I were to go by your logic, I will have to believe in hobbits and elves as well!!
This is not a question which can be answered in one liner. If you are sincere in understanding shiites, please read shia literature on this. One of the links for you.In other words, you have no clue. Imam has to be present on earth. But he can be unseen? Can you show me where your scientifically authentic hadis talk about faith in unseen Imams?
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I am asking you specifically about Imams and Dais from the teachings of the first five shia ahlul bayt.
What is more relevent. Hadit of Quran and ahlubait or Quran and Sunnah. Ahlubait is not here except Aga Khan and who would take religious direction from hom.Prophet(pbuh) said I leave behind two things, quran and ahlulbait...., some sahabi said hasbe-kitabullah (quran is sufficient). This is one of the cause of most of the miseries of muslims
Do you believe in hobbits and elves? They too are unseen, except in the head of someone!!The issue is not on the debate of shaytan's existence but it was used to explain the rationale of existence of someone who is not seen.
I have read a lot of shia literature and a lot of links and short of asking me to believe in hobbits and elves, they give nothing new. So I am asking you one more time, is there any hadis from any of the first 5 shia ahlul bayt supporting hidden Imams and their required presence on earth? Just give me the hadis and do not worry about explaining it. Just tell me which hadis makes you believe in this!!This is not a question which can be answered in one liner. If you are sincere in understanding shiites, please read shia literature on this. One of the links for you.
Br PorusFor some time he will be hidden from the eyes of the people in such a way that the greatest searcher of the day will not be able to find a trace of him, however exhaustive the search.
Something which does not exist cannot be concealed or hid from eyes because by its nature of non-existence it is not visible."For some time he will be hidden from the eyes of the people" doesn't necessarily mean that he is alive today and hiding, and has been for a thousand years and will be for a thousand more till the time comes for him to reveal himself. I think it simply means that he will be hidden like Musa (as) was hidden till it was time for him to reveal himself.
Just some out of manyI am also sure there is a speech by Hz Ali predicting number of Imamas plying hide and seek with different groups of Shias.
The speech is reproduced in "Textual Sources for the study of Islam". Look up page 135. Here is a link for the book's description.anajmi wrote: By the way, do you know from what source porus produced the speech? When I asked him, he ran away.
The source is mentioned on page 202 in the Bibliography which starts on page 199.anajmi wrote:Yes, I managed to do that much research to figure that out. But the book doesn't mention the source of this speech, or at least in the portions of it that I read online.
Good atleast you agree there will be a Imam who will come out when it is time. This is sufficient to prove you accept that imamat as a Divinely appointed post because he will come out not by his own but by will of Allah(Swt). If you agree on this why not agree on Ali(as) as a divinely appointed imam.The Imam will come out when it is time. He is not guiding anyone from hiding. If he were, he wouldn't have to come out to eradicate tyranny. Obviously, his guidance from hiding is not working very well!!
In the context of time of earth, some time could be even a million years. Here we are just talking about 100 of years.Besides Hazrat Ali says he will be hidden For some time and not for hundreds of years. Do you know what "some time" means in normal language?
Wrong things if shouted out loudly doesn't make it right. For shias, Imam is a creation of Allah(swt), so basically a creator and creation cannot be compared. What makes prophet(pbuh) different from other human beings is that he was the chosen one from Allah(swt), likewise imams are also chosen creation of Allah(swt). Shias give due acknowledgment to their status which other muslims do not , hence it makes them feel that shias worship them.People who believe in hidden Imams guiding them, are idol worshippers. Unless of course like the shaytan, Imam is also a jinn
This is a false allegation. Imam is not going to live forever. He has only been given a longer life which is scientifically possible. Allah(swt) has many qualities, for eg if he is Merciful, any human can have this quality which doesn't mean he is Allah(swt). Humans can have attributes of Allah(swt) but the distinction is humans having attributes in its finite sense while Allah(swt) possesses them in infinite quanta.They consider him to be forever living. What this means is that they have attributed Allah's qualities to the Imam.
Any proof in Qur'an? Show mw a single Aya which says there will be chosen people called Imams after Prophet SAW.likewise imams are also chosen creation of Allah(swt).
Muslim First wrote:Any proof in Qur'an? Show mw a single Aya which says there will be chosen people called Imams after Prophet SAW.likewise imams are also chosen creation of Allah(swt).
Why most important aspect of Islam after Prophethood is not mentioned in Qur'an?