Deedar (Darshan) of Maula

[anajmi]

Yeah, I don't have answers. How can I give answers from the hidden quran. That is the reason why you don't have any answers either. The answers you give simply hammer your Imam. Didn't you prove that your Imam is foolish and unjust? HAHAHHAA!!

[anajmi]

Who is Shakir? Is he your hidden Imam with the hidden quran? Is he hiding with Amir-Moezzi. HAHAHAHA!!

[znanwalla]

Najmi,

I showed you from one of your own texts....I can show you from other texts too and you will be able to see the variances easily....now that I have shown you that you were twisting the expressions earlier on, you are behaving like an imbecile.....you guys don't even know the Quran ! what can you teach anyone anything?.....

"The acquisition of knowledge is a duty incumbent on every Muslim, male or female. [Soofi/ETSM127]-- Prophet Mohamed....but most of you have remained ignorant and paganistic folks.....zn

[anajmi]

How can I know the hidden quran? Isn't it supposed to be hidden? I only know the quran that is easily available on Amazon and you are quoting fabrications. And there are no fabrications in the quran that I have. Even jawanmardan agreed with me. HAHAHAHAHAH!!

[znanwalla]

What did JM agree with you? show me ? everyone knows you are a liar and a first class pervert ! so reading on amazon is not the Quran...it is a like thereof which most refer to...but it is not the complete Final message ! true unfortunate for you morons !...zn

[Africawala0000]

Anajmi,

It is a shame that you had to go to wikipedia to find the meaning of Gnosticism. You probably never heard the word before. Like you never heard of esoteric aspect of Islam.

Gnosticism in the simplest terms means spiritual knowledge of philosophy and doctrines, which you, Aarif and MF do not know of as your knowledge is limited and mind consumption is none. To achieve knowledge you have to read books and keep an open mind. A close mind refuses to read or absorb anything. That is why you have been chasing your own tails. What you guys need is brain translplant which is not available at the moment.

There are four aspects of Islam, Sharia, Tariqah, Haqiqa and Marifa. You are still in first grade and with the way you are progressing or regressing, you will not move beyond Sharia as you have shown no inclination to do so. So you will never understand any other faith besides Jahalyaism.

Allah guides to His Light whom He pleases. The three of you have lucked out!

[anajmi]

It is a shame that you had to go to wikipedia to find the meaning of Gnosticism.

What is the shame in that? I will go to china if I have to, to show everyone how full of crap the Ismailis are.

You probably never heard the word before.

That is correct. Ismailis use words not commonly heard to fool people. It becomes difficult to disagree with something you've never heard of before. Thanks to wikipedia, the Ismaili bluff can be called most of the times.

Gnosticism in the simplest terms means

Keep that explanation for the dumb Ismailis.

keep an open mind.

yeah, we saw an example of an open mind when you spoke about wikipedia.

You are still in first grade

Well, looks like even a first grade education is enough to deal with the Ismailis. All half a dozen of them at the same time!!

[znanwalla]

Najma, do you know where is China? the best you know is Maherally and Mir Bose confabulations......infact if you go to China you might learn something worthwhile...so stop boasting ! we know your hole !....zn

[znanwalla]

Najma,

When you have not been able to prove anything using your interpolated texts and man made ahadiths then what can Wikeipedia/ Amazon sites prove except that you all are imbeciles and ignorant folks who do not know if you are coming or going?...You haven't been able to even explain why Umar likes to see your veggies move around naked in the houses when his own never did? so explain that to us first pal !...zn

[znanwalla]

Lo ! najma, time and again we have proved to you how inferior you guys are.....you have not even been able to answer most of our questions except making cheesy remarks which even an urchin in the slums of tataland can make.....so your boastfulness makes me laugh hysterically.....now make sure you go to China first !.....and don't eat with your hands using your fingers - they will laugh on you !..zn

[anajmi]

When you have not been able to prove anything

With a moron like you, I don't need to prove anything. You have proved everything I wanted to prove, just like how you disclosed your identity like an idiot. HHHAHAHAHHAHHAHHA

[znanwalla]

Now how can dumbos like you prove anything to anyone? they have no Quran ! No proper Pillars of faith ! No access to the TWO precious things....so how can you even know you are dumb or clever? you are not even listening to Umar who said that your veggies at home should be kept naked....you claim falsely that touching the hands of a woman is wrong and yet when asked you are unable to tell me if touching her elsewhere is okay....so frankly you are wasting everyone's time with your irrelevant comments...zn

[jawanmardan]

anajmi, wikipedia gives an introduction to Christian gnosticism, Isma'ili represent an Islamic Gnosticism, there are many traditions in the Mahayana Buddhist traditions like Tibetan that espouse Gnosticism. Because one simply has not heard hardly invalidates a belief system let alone a culture.

to show everyone how full of crap the Ismailis are.

Thats a shame, because I feel Isma'ilism is beautiful, Indian Ginans, or Persian Rubaiyats, Arabic or Tajik Qasidas, Chinese Gong un, are enigmatic deeply spiritually uplifting to listen to. When I was in Tokiyo I was surprised to see Japanese Isma'ili dressed in brightly colored Kimonos, reciting kōan (expressions of enlightenment); a complete revelation, to see another race with a different history, culture and understanding of my faith yet part of my jamaat. The way Isma'ilism absorbs different cultures and peoples into Islam is a thing of beauty.

[znanwalla]

The Quran is a criterion for the entire humankind and not just for the muslims.....Ismailism thus offers the flavour of different faiths under the banner of Prophet's Islam and does not hold any bigotry or absolutist views as there is no compulsion in faith either but then can people from the latrines know all this and more so if they are dumb or clever? God made everyone from a single clot of blood !.....if Christians and Jews are more successful than these folks even with their "idol worshipping" and "infidelity" then how do these imbeciles explain this phenomena to us if they are so pious and righteous folks of God (which I sincerely doubt)?....maybe they should explain if God is so unjust towards them despite them being so "religious" and fervent followers of the deen ?....or does God like Jews and Christians more than them?...just wondering?...or is Allah truly chastising them now that Muhamad is no longer amongst them (as per the Quran)?...zn

[anajmi]

jawanmardan,

Unfortunately, I haven't been to tokyo. I am talking about Ismailis and Ismailism represented on this board by people like znan and turbocanuck. That is full of crap.

[anajmi]

The Quran is a criterion for the entire humankind and not just for the muslims

You mean the quran that Hazrat Ali is hiding with himself? The quran that he refuses to share with the entire humankind?

jawanmardan,

See how full of crap these Ismailis are?

[znanwalla]

why? isn't Allah's final message a criterion for the entire mankind? it is for it was meant to be but then kaffirron betrayed the prophet and his family...so what do we do? and what can JM do as he is not responsible for your actions and that of your ancestors...zn

[Muslim First]

JM

Isma'ili represent an Islamic Gnosticism

There is no such thing as "Islamic Gnosticism".
[Honestly I do not even understand “Gnosticism” completely. Nor do I care to.]
Can you show it in Qur'an or in sunnah of Prophet SAW?

I feel Isma'ilism is beautiful, Indian Ginans, or Persian Rubaiyats, Arabic or Tajik Qasidas, Chinese Gong un, are enigmatic deeply spiritually uplifting to listen to. When I was in Tokiyo I was surprised to see Japanese Isma'ili dressed in brightly colored Kimonos, reciting kōan (expressions of enlightenment); a complete revelation, to see another race with a different history, culture and understanding of my faith yet part of my jamaat.

It is no problem for us Muslims. We are opposite to what you say diversity. Muslims of all race and culture worship Allah SWT in same way [Salaat, Saum and Hajj (Granted minor differences)]. Have same rituals and that is the beauty of Islam. Ismailis have decided to forsake this and have gone their own way. We have nothing in common (except Ismailis have Islamic names). As per ZN your Qur'an is different than what Muslim Ummah (Both Shia and Sunni) has.

I have no problem with Ismailis.

Take care.

[znanwalla]

MF...if you don't understand what is Gnosis then go back to some better institution and learn before you come to talk to us ! the fact that you don't know does not mean it does not exist !

"And truly it is a revelation of the Lord of the Worlds which the faithful Spirit hath brought down upon thy heart..."

So what does this ayah tell you? that even the Prophet's awareness of the divine has nothing to do with the activities of the outward senses or the like - rather and on the contrary this awareness is cast by the angel into the heart and so such realities cannot be explained in conventional means of analysis.

Thus the descent of revelation is one of the manifestations of the UNSEEN which can be properly assimilated by faith and yet its intrinsic reality may remain mysterious and the Quran says..." Those who believe in the unseen..."

So MF, if you wish to measure everything according to your own material standards and using only empirical perception, tend to confine the verities of the Unseen within their own limited framework of the senses....

Frankly you have no basis to argue on Gnosis !

zn

[Muslim First]

MF...if you don't understand what is Gnosis then go back to some better institution and learn before you come to talk to us !

ZN

I had enough of your BS.

We will have thing to talk when you can prove that ismail out lived Imam Jafar. History records that Ismail died before Jafar. So he was never a Imam. So your MHI is a empty suite. RememberThere can be only one Imam at a time.

[znanwalla]

MF.....keep on worshipping Allah ! as long as you worship just Allah it is okay ! but make sure you actually worship only Allah but then with just five pillars you may NOT find the path to Allah though you may claim you do worhsip HIM.....for all you know you may be worshipping Iblis..why would the Prophet call you guys "minnions of satan"? was the Prophet wrong? No !

You had enough of my BS....wow ! you are retarded and I am not ! I have told you about Imam Ismail and I don't have to convince a Wahabbi more than what I have said...if Bohras or Twelvers need to debate let them do so with us directly as it is none of your business.....

Your ploy to pit Sh'ias against one another and cause dissent amongst ourselves will not work here because you want me to talk about our Imamat at the expense of the other Sh'ia belief and so then you want them to become upset...right?

You think we are fools like you .....Najmi starts doing the same style....he wants me to react and become abusive so that admin gets upset with me....we are not as retarded as you are...we are not depending on the alms of Wahabbis....we have no obligation to prove anything to you and if we have to then you will have to first prove to us (a) that God Exists (b) where is HE if HE is really existing? (c) How does HE look? (d) and how you are able to have an umediated relationship with HIm - the Exalted ? don't give us your fairy tales MF...we are too intelligent for you ! prove to us you are not lying about God !..c'mon MF !...zn

[znanwalla]

And per chance MF....if you do find a "like thereof", make sure you don't start thinking it's the Supreme God...for this Supreme God cannot be imagined or comprehended ! Now this is also "Gnosis"

HE cannot be described or named !but the ignorant at the exoteric level have described HIM and named HIM which is okay as long as they move upwards but they don't wish to ! and so they end up restricting this Supreme God within their own imagination....

Now ofcourse what I am saying is not making sense to you...do you know why? that level of your Gnosis or mystycism is virtually non existent to help you understand that He ! the Supreme God ! the Exalted ! stands ALONE !!! He is unique !!! THAT IS WHY we ALL SAY He is Unique ! Unique ! HE is Unique !

I hope that retarded though you are, you appreciate what I am saying !

HE is Unique ! but you folks are making God - the exalted as "un-unique"....by partnering 99 different attributes to HIM who is beyond all these said attributes and so why are you confining them to HIM - where is the "negation" ? for HE is the whatever HE is and beyond and beyond....Mullahs will not understand all this pal....that is why a Sufi scholar will not even discuss with you guys this subject....wherever your intellect and power of reasoning reaches it is Everything else except GOD - the Supreme !and yet you are trying to convince the world that you have an unmediated relationship with GOD....don't make us laugh !

You are partnering so many things to God who stands alone and so you are in breach of Real Tawhid....the difference being that it is due to Mulla ignorance and not on purpose...and so God is Forgiving and Merciful and yet HE is NOt just forgiving and merciful but much more than you Mullahs can imagine in your wildest dreams ! so stop barking....we are more knowledgeable than you are .....zn

[znanwalla]

MF.....are you making empty statements or can you provide evidence about Imam Ismail's death? the onus is upon you....so please be my guest and move forward...I am challenging you to bring forth the evidence and put it on the table...you have not been able to answer even a simple question about where his tomb or shrine is? arabia or syria?...you cannot withstand my line of questioning on this issue as I have, in front of me, overwhelming evidence from the twelver books and ahadith of their own Imams to show they are all in a state of confusion...so we say let it now be just a matter of belief....but if you think you are too smart....then c'mon pal, take me on even on this issue....put forth your sunstantiation and I will negate it and tear it to pieces....otherwise go in peace and ride your scooters with najmi enjoying your warmth...zn

[anajmi]

So according to znan, worshipping Allah is the same as worshipping iblis. Is that what your Imam has taught you?

[znanwalla]

How can worshipping Allah be the same as Worshipping Allah? only an insane imbecile would say this? all I said is that make sure that you actually worship Allah and not Iblis ! or don't imagine that Iblis is Allah ! many people from the latrines are obsessed and in the clutches of the devils as per the Prophet and so they are following the dictates of the satan but somehow they tend to believe they are worshipping Allah...if they were then they would listened to their own beloved prophet and not abandoned him or his loving and beloved family....the prophet would not have been dened a parchment and a pen....Bibi fatima would have received her fadak....etc etc etc....go and read history....Maherally's books will only mislead you unduly...zn

[znanwalla]

CORRECTION !

"How can worshipping Iblis be the same as Worshipping Allah"? Allah is Allah ! Iblis is a satan who has been banished and his children are many in this world...zn

[anajmi]

znan,

There were some who accused the prophet of being possessed by the devil and worshipping the devil. They also said that the quran was from satan (remember satanic verses). You are one of those hypocrites. The curse of Allah is on the likes of you.

[znanwalla]

Najmi,

You are making incompetent arguments outside the scope of the narrower issues of this subject matter.....Munafiqun and those who thought Islam will come to an end are the ones who were hoping that after the death of the Prophet..."an accident of time" will occur as the prophet's only biological son had died.....but Allah revealed Sura al Kawthar...go and read this Sura and then directed the Prophet to appoint Ali as his worthy and rightful successor.....so how can we be the Munafiqun when we not love the prophet and his family but never abandoned him?.....who buried the prophet? do you know? his legitimate and rightful successor as the rest had gone to........okay....so who is blabbering? go and read history and stop reading maherelly concoctions....zn

[anajmi]

The Ismailis have given up what the prophet and Hazrat Ali thought in lieu of what the Hazar Imam has taught. So you have abandoned the prophet. You sing ginans in place of namaz. You are only pretending to follow the prophet when you have worshipped a human instead of Allah.

[pardesi]

ZN

I had enough of your BS.

We will have thing to talk when you can prove that ismail out lived Imam Jafar. History records that Ismail died before Jafar. So he was never a Imam. So your MHI is a empty suite. RememberThere can be only one Imam at a time.

MF,

So you do agree there has to be an Imam of the time, only one at a time. So lets assume Ismail died in the time of his father. Now there has to be an Imam so why don't you accept Musa Kazim as your Imam. Empty suites do not go the distance. Musa Kazim's ended within 4 generations after him. It is a myth and not a proven fact that Ismail actually died. Some say that his twin Abdullah died, others are of the opinion that Imam Jafar Sadiq held a mock funeral to keep the next Imam out of harms way. Nevertheless history also records that Ismail moved to towards Syria and died there. After him it was his son Mohammad became Imam and the line continues.

What is "history"? For every fact there is also fiction. Do you believe everything you read in the books of history? For every event of history written by one there is another contradicting it. How many historians in the past have been labelled as liars? The scribes of Ahadith were technically historians too, weren't they? Yet your own scholars have rebuked thousands of hadiths. Most historians are in the business of only getting "their" point across. They are not interested in factual narrations. Most are influenced by the rulers or the higher ups who finance their works. Marco Polo was a traveler and historian who wrote second and third hand accounts. Atta Malik Juwaini, another so called historian who mixed facts and fiction with false claims. Anybody now a days can produce a work based on past events and pass it as complete truth. It is upto the readers to sift through the events surrounding a particular one and come to their own conclusion.

Its a different thing your eyes are shut by Allah and your heart is sealed. By the way Znan is right, what business do you have whether our Imam's lineage is intact or broken. We have never invited you to join us. I would rather keep you in you state that you are in which is, in Africawala's words, Jahaliya.