Aarif wrote:
Pardesi,
You still remember my one statement that you have been misqouting every time you write any post against me.
Brother Aarif,
That one statement made me suspicious of your beliefs. You had said that you were a Bohra and then you made that statement. I can paste the whole conversation here if you like. The bottom line is you said what you actually believed and I will always remind you about it.
However you have forgotten the hundreds of statements that I have written justifying my stance as far as Prophets and Imams are concerned.
I would really like to see where you actually did that. You have never really supported any Imams of any sect. If you have then show me those hundreds of statements you are talking about.
For people like you Islam is all about hazar Imam. It starts with him and ends with him. I am sure you will become my friend the day I start singing praises of your hazar Imam. Now that shows your level of understanding about Islam.
Hazar Imam is "Hazar" for those who believe in his Imamat. However, I have tried to make you understand our beliefs in Imamat but you refuse to engage. For us Islam begins with Allah and his Prophets continued to guide the believers and when the last of the Prophets left this world he appointed an Imam to continue the teaching and guidance. This "Hazar" Imam is from that same line of Imams that the Prophet left behind, unfortunately you guys failed to get with the program. If you have any doubts about my understanding of Islam which you hold so dear as your personal property why not engage in a topic of your choice and let others decide about my level of understanding of "your" Islam? Remember, I was brought up with mostly Memons of Karachi and not mostly Ismailis other than my family.
As far as leaving debates is concerned I have told you very clearly that if I stop replying to your idiotic posts you should immediately understand that I do not want to waste my time on you.
It is unfortunate that you feel that way. Our conversation is over as soon as I start asking you questions.... Why is that? You ask questions and I answer and then I ask questions and you answer. Isn't it the way it is supposed to work. But when I ask questions you feel that your authority to judge has been challenged and you get all annoyed. The reason why we have not arrived at any platform in the first place is that we have not gotten over the hump of trusting each other. Let me suggest a solution to that. I have accepted you the way you are. Can you do the same for us Ismailis as far as our beliefs are concerned. May be we can then go further into learning from each other. Clean heart and mind is a must for any discussion or learning. As I have told you earlier leave your baggage out when you enter. You will be surprised to learn how much you do not know about others!
For me you and your cohorts are equivalents of those blind syedna followers like Gulp and Jayanti. Now I do not expect any sensible debates with those blind syedna followers who keep doing Moula Moula all the times. You guys fall in the same category... To me you never made any sense because you never talked any sense...
Again, it is unfortunate you feel that way. I can not speak about your co-religionists (Gulf and Jayanti) or your Dai but me and my "cohorts" are trying to answer but you are not willing to hear because what we are saying is not what you want to hear, hence it is "rubbish and lies".
Here is a small qoute from a Meherally article. Can you logically debate and refute his argument in light of Islam???
The Ismailis are not instructed to offer the Islamic Salaah, observe Saum or perform Hajj. They have replaced Salaah with certain shirk-infested Dua'as (thrice a day). They are told that their Hajj is a personal "Glimpse" (Deedaar) of Karim Aga Khan.
I extended you the invitation to debate "logically" earlier. Define logic first and accept its preconditions. Like my other Ismaili friends said there is a lot of discussion done on this board on the subject of Salaat, Saum and Hajj. In the interest of not getting bogged down by repititive arguments read them up. Read Meherally's views on his site about Salaat (5 times vs 3 times), Ahadith collections and their authenticity, as I am sure you will base your arguments on those two sources. This will help you save your face. You have also brought articles from the internet and posted them here re the Ismailis and their past history but never did your homework as to what those articles were actually saying and therefore, when pointed out to you, never followed up to discuss them with us.
Any discussion has to have a starting point. If your contention is the Imamat and like Anajmi you want to discuss only my Imam then you will have to discuss my Imam and his activities in light of Imams and their activities of the past. This will take us back to "YOUR IMAMS", the Musta Alians. Willing to discuss "YOUR" Imams? For that you will have to prove you are a Bohra. And to discuss Musta Ali line of Imams we will have to go back in history and discuss previous Imams going as far back as Ali. Now you will argu about Ali's appointment so for that matter we will have to discuss the Prophet. This is what Znan was trying to tell you in a previous post. I believe that Prophet Mohammad would be the right starting point. And to start there we will have to look at what Quran is saying about all this and for that it is very important you know which Ayats were last revealed to the Prophet and in which context.
If you do not intend to continue debating with us then the least you could do is stay quiet for a while and let this topic rest. If you keep repeating your rhetoric we will be just going in circles.