Burial Places of Imams

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Sajid Zafar
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Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:01 am

Burial Places of Imams

#1

Unread post by Sajid Zafar » Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:56 pm

Can someone shed light about the burial places of our Imams (so-called) after Imam Jafer-us- Sadiq? I am not aware of any of burial sites from Imam Ismail bin Jafer till Imam Amir neither heard of pilgrimage to such place by savvy bohra grave worshipers.



Aarif
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Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:01 am

#2

Unread post by Aarif » Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:26 pm

SJ,

Good question... Even I would like to know the answer to this.. I think Porus, Husain Bhai or Mr. Insaf might be able to shed some light on this.



makberi
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#3

Unread post by makberi » Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:59 am

As per dawoodi bohra beliefs the Fatimid Imams are buried in the Masjid in Cairo, Egypt where the Ras Ul Hussain is......behind a door......nobody knows where exactly which Imam is buried behind the door....so no one enters the room including the syedna...u just pay ur respects from outside



Hussain_KSA
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#4

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:02 am

Brother Sajid Zafr & Aarif Bhai,

Here is brief history of our Imams. However there are still some controversy about the history which will never end.

Mohammed Bin Abdullah bin Abumuttalib (PBUH) Prophet born in Makkah on 12th Rabiul Awwal Aam ul Feel (Elephant Year) (20th of April 571 Monday) – Death : 28th of Safar 11 Hijri (8th of June 632) Age : 63 period 23 year. Place of burial : Masjid ul Nabwi In Madina al Munawara ( Saudi Arabia).

Ali Bin Abu Talib bin Abu Mutallib, Wasi (successor nomitted by Prophet (PBUH) born in Makkah (Inside of Kaaba) (13 Rajab Aam ul Feel 30) Death : 21st of Ramzan 40 Hijri Age :63 Total Year of Rule as wasi 30 years and khilafat 4 years. Place of Burial : Najaf ul Asharf : Iraq

1. Hasan bin Ali bin Abu Taleb, First Imam, Born : 15th of Ramadan 3 Hijri Death : 28th of Safar 49Hijri Age : 46 Year of Imamat is from 40th Hijri to 49 Hiji total Years : 9 years. Burial in Jannatul Baquee in Madeena – Saudi Arabia.
2. Hussain bin Ali Bin Abul Taleb, Second Imam, Born : 4 th of Shaban 4 Hijri. Death : 10th of Muharram 61 Hijri (Martyr in Karbala) Age : 57 Period of Imamat is from 49 Hijri to 61 Hijri (12 years) burial Place : Karbala – Iraq
3. Imam Ali bin Hussain bin Ali (Zainul Abdeen) Third Imam, Born : 5th of Shabn 38 Hijri 18th Moharram 94 Hijri Age : 57 period of Imamat from : 61 Hijri 94 Hijri (33 years) burial Place : Jannatul Baquee – Madina : Saudi Arabia.
4. Mohammed Al Baquer bin Ali Bin Hussain, Fourth Imam, Born on 3rd of Safa 57Hijri Death: 10th of Zilhaj 114Hirjri Age : 57 Period of Imamat : 94Hijri to 114Hijri (19 years) Place of Burial : Jannatul baquee in Madina – Saudi Arabia.
5. Jafar bin Mohammed (Jafar us Sadiq) , Fifth Imam, Born on 17 Rabiul Awwal 83Hijri Death: 23rd of Rajab 148 Hijri Age: 65 Period of Imamat : from 114 Hijri to 148 Hijri (34 years) Burried at : Jannatul Baquee in Madina – Saudi Arabia.
6. Ismail bin Jafar us Sadiq, Sixth Imam, Born : 110 Hijri Death : 149 Hijri (Controversial as history shows that he was died while Imam Jafar was alive Hence separating Shia Ithna Ashri who follows his younger brother Imam Moosa Kazim as their 6th Imam however Khoja and Bohras (Dawoodi, Suleman {hussaini & Muhaisini}, Alvi, Nagoshi, Mehdi baugh wala,{ Badri, vakili,} Nagpoori, Roshan Khayal Jamat etc are among those who followed Imam Ismail ) Age : 48 Period of Imamat : from 148 to 157 Hijri (10 years) buried at : Jannatul Baquee in Madina – Saudi Arabia. (His grave is not visible which used to be first at right hand of the Jannatul Baquee grave yard according to old historical evidence)
7. Mohammed (Al Shakir) bin Ismail bin Jafar us Sadiq, Seventh Imam, Born: 122 Hijri Death : 197 Hijri, Age; 75 years, Period of Imamat : from 157 Hijri to 197 Hijri (41 years) Buried at : Jannatul Baquee in Madina – Saudi Arabia (Grave does not exist)
8. Abdull Mastur, 08th Imam, Born :179Hijri Death:212 Hijri Age: 33 years Period of Imamat : from 197 Hijri to 212 Hijri ( 16Years) Buried at : Salamia in Syria ( as per Ismaili history)
9. Ahmed Mastur, 09th Imam, Born : 198Hijri Death:225 Age :27 years, Period of Imamat: from 212Hijri to 214Hijir ( 13Years) Buried at : Salamia In Syria ( as per Ismaili history)
10. Hussain Mastur, 10th Imam, Born : 219Hijri Death: 268 Hijri Age : 49 Year, Period of Imamat 225 Hijir to 268 Hijri (43 Years) Buried at : Askar in Syria ( as per Ismaili history)
11. Abdullah Mehdi,11th Imam, Born :12th of Shawwal 260Hijri Death: 15 Rabi Awwal 322 Hijri, Period of Imamat, From 268 Hijri to 322 Hiji ( 53 Years) Buried at : Mehdia in Tunisia ( as per Ismaili history)
12. Mohammed Qaim,12th Imam, Born : 380 Hjri Death: 13th of Shawwal 334 Hijri , Age : 54 Years Period of Imamat : from 322 Hijri to 334 Hijri ( 12Years) Buried at : Mehdia in Tunisia ( as per Ismaili history)
13. Ismail Mansoor,13th Imam, Born : 302 Hijri Death: 28 Shawwal 341 Hijri, Age : 39 Years, Period of Imamat Frin 334 Hijri to 341 Hijri ( 7Years) Buried at : Mansooriya in Egypt ( as per Ismaili history)
14. Moiz Dinullah,14th Imam, Born : 21st of Ramdan 319 Hijri Death: 364 Hijri Age; 45 eyars, Period of Imamat: from 341 Hijri to 364 Hijri ( 24Years) Buried at : Cairo in Egypt ( as per Ismaili history)
15. Nizar Inil Aziz,15th Imam, Born : 14th of moharam 334 Hijir Death:12th of Ramdan 386 Hijri Age: 36 Years, Period of Imamat ( 21Years) Buried at :Cairo in Egypt ( as per Ismaili history)
16. Mansoor Al Hakim, 16th Imam, Born : 23 Rabiul Awwal 375 Hijri Death: 27th of Shawwal 411 Hijri, Age : 36 years, Period of Imamat: frin 386Hijri to 411 Hijri ( 25Years) Buried at : unknown ( as per Ismaili history)
17. Ali Zahir,17th Imam, Born : 10th of Ramdan 395 Hijri Death: 10th of Shaban 427 Hjri, Age : 32 years, Period of Imamat: from 411 Hijri to 427 Hijri (15 Years) Buried at : Cairo in Egypt ( as per Ismaili history)
18. Maad Inil Mustansir,18th Imam, Born : 16thh of Ramdan 420Hijri Death: 17th of Zilhaj 487Hijri, Age: 67 Years , Period of Imamat: from : 427 Hijri to 487 Hijri ( 60Years) Buried at : Cairo in Egypt ( as per Ismaili history) Khojas follow his elder son Nizar hence creating first division in Ismaili chain.
19. Ahmed al Mustaali,19th Imam, Born : 20th of Moharram 466 Hijri Death: 17th of Safar 495Hijri, Age : 27 years, Period of Imamat Frm 487 Hijri to 495 Hijri ( 7 Years) Buried at : Cairo in Egypt ( as per bohra history)
20. Mansoor Al Aamir,20th Imam, Born : 13th of Moharram 490 Hijri Death: 4 zilqad 526 Hijri, Age : 36 years, Period of Imamat: from : 495 Hijri to 526 Hijri ( 31Years) Buried at :Cairo in Egypt ( as per Bohra history)
21. At Tayyeb Abil Kasim : 21st Imam Born : 4th Rabiul Aakher 524Hiji Imamat Started from : 526 Hijir : no details about his life/Death etc as it is believed by Bohras that chain of Imamat is continued from his progeny and one day his successor will come in front of Mumineen.



porus
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#5

Unread post by porus » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:59 pm

Husain_KSA,

Thank you for an informative post. This informtion is also briefly listed in Saheefa Gharra, the current edition compiled from selections of the late wife of Sayedna.

There is a slight difference between your list and the list in the Saheefa in two items:

According to the Saheefa, the 7th Imam is buried in Ferghana and the 13th Imam is buried in Mehdiya.



Aarif
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#6

Unread post by Aarif » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:22 pm

Husain Bhai and Porus Bhai,

Thanks a lot for this nice post. I have already copied it in a word doc. In future if someone asks me I will be able to use it. :)



Sajid Zafar
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#7

Unread post by Sajid Zafar » Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:51 pm

Brothers:

Thanks for the input. No doubts that these burial places are listed in history books. I want to know that are there any evidence one can find like tomb,etc. and do people visit these place for ziarat? Perhaps time has completely eradicated the presence of these burial sites.



Hussain_KSA
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#8

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:21 am

Originally posted by porus:
Husain_KSA,

Thank you for an informative post. This informtion is also briefly listed in Saheefa Gharra, the current edition compiled from selections of the late wife of Sayedna.

There is a slight difference between your list and the list in the Saheefa in two items:

According to the Saheefa, the 7th Imam is buried in Ferghana and the 13th Imam is buried in Mehdiya.
Brother Porus

Thanks for your information. I have great respect for your knowledge and I always try to learn from your posting.

As far as seventh Imam is concern, I don't know about the sources of Saheefa but in General historical books and from the Arabic history of Madina and Jannatul Baquee, It is mentioned that He was buried at Jannatul Baquee. Even in a old map of Jannatul Baquee his place of burial is mentioned. So is written in Ismaili literature too. I would like you to go through it (as you are very good in Arabic language and literature too).

It is possible that burial place of 13th Imam is Mehdiya as 12th Imam is also buried there but Mansooriya is also very near to Mehdiya. As I mentioned in my post that some places and dates are controversial. I will re check it inshallah. Thanks for your post again.



Hussain_KSA
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#9

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:27 am

Originally posted by Sajid Zafar:
Brothers:

Thanks for the input. No doubts that these burial places are listed in history books. I want to know that are there any evidence one can find like tomb,etc. and do people visit these place for ziarat? Perhaps time has completely eradicated the presence of these burial sites.
Brother Sajid Zafar

There were tombs on grave of Ahle Bait (AS) in Jannatul Baguee and Jannatul Ma'ala grave yards but Abdul Wahab with Al Saud demolished those tomb in 12 Century Hijri. The details can be find in history of Abdul Wahab and Al Saud nexus even on internet.

Imams buried in Iraqs are already have tombs and millions go for their ziyarat.

However in Egypt, Tunis and Syria no tombs are found. Recently Syedna has found some places and work was in progress to built tomb. I did not hear any further about it.



Danish
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Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 5:01 am

#10

Unread post by Danish » Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:21 pm

Originally posted by Hussain_KSA:
Recently Syedna has found some places and work was in progress to built tomb.
How, by what means and measures and with what evidence, did this THUG find those burial places of imaams buried hundred of years ago as allegedly claimed? :roll:



Hussain_KSA
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Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

#11

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:07 am

Originally posted by Danish:
Originally posted by Hussain_KSA:
How, by what means and measures and with what evidence, did this THUG find those burial places of imaams buried hundred of years ago as allegedly claimed? ;) ;)



babu
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:01 am

#12

Unread post by babu » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:21 am

well ......Ask Peeru mulla in udaipur , sure he will tell u abt the " GAIB NO ILM" .

peerumulla@udaipur.dawoodi-bohras.com



Sajid Zafar
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:01 am

#13

Unread post by Sajid Zafar » Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:51 am

Husain:

Thanks for your input. I have seen the photographs of the tomb of Imam Hasan during Ottoman Turks rule. I did also get a chance to see the burial sites of Bibi Fatma and Imams (till Jafer Sadiq) at Baqih during performing Hajj. It would be significant to know about the exact burial sites of Ismiali imams for the reason that it is our history (especially during Fatimid rule in Egypt). Why there burial sites disappeared despite of being rulers? On the contrary, if we look at twelvers, the burial sites and actual tombs (after jafar sadiq) are present on the earth as of this date and attract a large crowd.



Hussain_KSA
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Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

#14

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:12 pm

Originally posted by Sajid Zafar:
Husain:

Thanks for your input. I have seen the photographs of the tomb of Imam Hasan during Ottoman Turks rule. I did also get a chance to see the burial sites of Bibi Fatma and Imams (till Jafer Sadiq) at Baqih during performing Hajj. It would be significant to know about the exact burial sites of Ismiali imams for the reason that it is our history (especially during Fatimid rule in Egypt). Why there burial sites
disappeared despite of being rulers? On the contrary, if we look at twelvers, the burial sites and actual tombs (after jafar sadiq) are present on the earth as of this date and attract a large crowd.
Brother Sajid Zafar

The disappearance of the burial sites after Imam Jafar us Sadique is mostly due to controversy of the successor. I mean majority have followed Imam Musa Kazim after the death of Imam Jafar us Sadique. Very few have followed Imam Ismail and Imama Mohammed. This is the first reason that Shia Ithna Ashri successfully protected the graves of their Imams (out side of Saudi Arabia and mainly in Iraq as population is 60% shia). On the contrary our Imams starting from Imam Mohammed till eleventh Imam were in hiding. Leave about their graves we even don't know anything about their daily life or related to there whereupon. The preaching of Ismilism was also done as a secrete mission. In brief there were lot of people who wanted to root out Ismilism and its followers. Whatever we find in history about them is all hearsay. So is the case with Imams of Nizari (Khoja) faction. Its all depends on your faith and believes otherwise, prima facie the total Ismaili sect is like a secrete cult. In Arabic history or Islamic historical books the ruling period of Fatimi Imams has been referred as "Batini Firqua". The same term has been used by Islamic history book by Mufti Shaukat ali Fahmi "Mukammil tareekh e Islam".



Aarif
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#15

Unread post by Aarif » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:06 pm

This is a very interesting thread. My sincere thanks to Husain bhai, Porus and SJ...



Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

#16

Unread post by Muslim First » Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:13 pm

The preaching of Ismilism was also done as a secrete mission. In brief there were lot of people who wanted to root out Ismilism and its followers. Whatever we find in history about them is all hearsay. So is the case with Imams of Nizari (Khoja) faction.
Beveqoof

Note this



Muslim First
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#17

Unread post by Muslim First » Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:18 pm

Its all depends on your faith and believes otherwise, prima facie the total Ismaili sect is like a secrete cult.



porus
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

#18

Unread post by porus » Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:31 pm

Originally posted by Hussain_KSA:

Whatever we find in history about them [Ismailism] is all hearsay.
Husain_KSA,

Please read, at least, The Isma'ilis: Their History and Doctrines by Farhad Daftary.

After having read it, let us know if you still hold that opinion.

[Incidentally, regarding the locations of the burial places of the 7th and 13th Ismaili Imams, I was just pointing out the differences between your post and the Saheefa. Nothing beyond that.]



Sajid Zafar
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#19

Unread post by Sajid Zafar » Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:12 pm

Bhai Hussain_KSA:

Your opinion regarding covert operation of Ismaili Imams makes sense and I had the same feeling before posting this thread. But I still could not swallow the disappearance of their graves in Egypt despite the fact that they were in power. Can one attribute it to hatred of Egyptians to Ismaili rule? It makes some sense as despite of long Ismaili rule there are no traces of Ismailis in Egypt after Saladin seal their fate.



porus
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Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:01 am

#20

Unread post by porus » Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:53 pm

At some level all that is not personally witnessed by you is 'hearsay'. This applies to photographs and newsreels too.

History is primarily hearsay. So is the Quran and all hadith, Sunni and Shia.

Hence there is no need to quarrel on these, but to regard with respect all the different interpretations. Bigotry begone.

Sajid Zafar,

Graves do disappear because of neglect and may be found later as was the case of the tomb of Tutankhamun.

Most Egyptians remained Sunni even during the Fatimid rule. Fatimids were cerebral and only invited people to the faith intellectually, attracting the learned Muslims and Non-Muslims.

People are resistant to change is well known in these circumstances. Even the great British Raj did not manage to covert the religions of the Indians.



Muslim First
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am

#21

Unread post by Muslim First » Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:06 pm

Fatimids were cerebral and only invited people to the faith intellectually, attracting the learned Muslims and Non-Muslims.
Very Profound

So they gave IQ test before they let anybody into Ismailism.

Cerebral Ismailis:

Maulana Burhnuddin Saheb TUS

Prince Maulan Hazir Imam



anajmi
Posts: 13402
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#22

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:08 pm

History is primarily hearsay.
That is a very bold statement to make. If you look at history which is as old as you, the name of your father becomes hearsay too since, and I guarantee it, that you haven't verified the information that your mother gave you. People should not make these general statements without thinking about the implications.

Things are hearsay only if you choose not to believe in them.



Hussain_KSA
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#23

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:15 pm

As I have mentioned clearly that its depend on your faith. I am not an authority on Ismailism. There are many facts which is better be left alone. If we dig more deeper we shall get more confused. Whatever I wrote its my understanding. As far as Dr. Farhad Daftary's book is concerned, it is also not spared by critics:

Please check this :

http://www.mostmerciful.com/musa-kazim.htm



porus
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#24

Unread post by porus » Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:17 pm

Husain_KSA,

Granted that there is a difference of opinion amongst scholars about the succession of Imam Ismail bin Jaafar. This issue should not completely invalidate Daftary's book. A lot of valuable research is incorporated in that book.

The official Bohra view is as follows:

Jafar al-Sadiq proclaimed nass on Ismail, who in turn had nominated his son Muhammad to succeed him. (This is not so strange as, Bohras believe, both Hasan and Husain had been nominated as Imams during Ali's lifetime.)

When Ismail predeceased Jafar, he had nominated his younger son, Musa, to be a caretaker, a mustawda imam, until Muhammad came of age. Following Jafar's death, Musa continued to protect Muhammad's identity as the Imam by not refuting his status as the mustaqar Imam. For this, he paid with his life. So far, there is no record of Imam Jafar al-Sadiq having pronounced nass on Musa al-Kazim

In the meanwhile, Muhammad and his 3 successors as Imams remained hidden until the appearance of Imam al-Mahdi, who founded the Fatimid Caliphate.

I agree with you that the version you accept depends primarily on your faith in the persons relating the story. Scholars can weigh scanty evidence and consider as true what appears most probable to them.

My own view is that to be accepted as Imam, al-Mahdi must have had a following which included those with intimate knowledge of his family's history.

For those of us who are rational, we must view all claim as equally valid. And study the faith of various sects based on their own received history. We can learn from others and accept the rich sectarian diversity of Muslims. Condemning and ridiculing others is bigotry.



anajmi
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#25

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:11 am

For those of us who are rational, we must view all claim as equally valid.
That is being completely opposite of rational. When all claims are viewed as equally valid, reasoning has already taken a back seat!!
Condemning and ridiculing others is bigotry.
Wahhabis are an exception though. You can condemn and ridicule them as much as you want, infact if you want to condemn and ridicule someone, make sure you label them as wahhabis.



anajmi
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Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

#26

Unread post by anajmi » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:23 am

For those of us who are rational, we must view all claim as equally valid.
Infact, I would go so far as to say that a person who says that he views all claims as valid is actually a liar because in reality in doesn't view any claim as valid.

A person who says "no claim is valid" is more believable.



Thai
Posts: 182
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#27

Unread post by Thai » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:39 am

all claims valid---or no claims valid

Isn't the end result the same either way? That is, if we approach with the attitude that all are right or none are right, we take out the elements of superiority, ego, division and are able to view others with less bias and with more equality?



Hussain_KSA
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Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:01 am

#28

Unread post by Hussain_KSA » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:47 am

Originally posted by porus:
Husain_KSA,

Granted that there is a difference of opinion amongst scholars about the succession of Imam Ismail bin Jaafar. This issue should not completely invalidate Daftary's book. A lot of valuable research is incorporated in that book.

The official Bohra view is as follows:

Jafar al-Sadiq proclaimed nass on Ismail, who in turn had nominated his son Muhammad to succeed him. (This is not so strange as, Bohras believe, both Hasan and Husain had been nominated as Imams during Ali's lifetime.)

When Ismail predeceased Jafar, he had nominated his younger son, Musa, to be a caretaker, a mustawda imam, until Muhammad came of age. Following Jafar's death, Musa continued to protect Muhammad's identity as the Imam by not refuting his status as the mustaqar Imam. For this, he paid with his life. So far, there is no record of Imam Jafar al-Sadiq having pronounced nass on Musa al-Kazim

In the meanwhile, Muhammad and his 3 successors as Imams remained hidden until the appearance of Imam al-Mahdi, who founded the Fatimid Caliphate.

I agree with you that the version you accept depends primarily on your faith in the persons relating the story. Scholars can weigh scanty evidence and consider as true what appears most probable to them.

My own view is that to be accepted as Imam, al-Mahdi must have had a following which included those with intimate knowledge of his family's history.

For those of us who are rational, we must view all claim as equally valid. And study the faith of various sects based on their own received history. We can learn from others and accept the rich sectarian diversity of Muslims. Condemning and ridiculing others is bigotry.
Agreed and no doubt Dr. Farhad has done a marvelous work by writing this book. His research is really commendable. I personally like his writing.

I do repect official position of Dawoodi Bohra. As you mentioned in your previous post that we must respect other dogmas and their perception, I am trying to study theology of other sects too. I am working on "Comparative study of various sect in Islam" I hope you can help me in this regard.

What is your personal openeion about the mansoos Sydna Mohammed badruddin (46th Dai). Earliear dai (from 47 to 50) used to write the title of Dai ul Mustaoda with their names as they were considering themselve care taker. How come all of sudden (from 51 dai) they became "Dai ul Mutlaq".

Secondly Sydena Abdullah Badruddin (50th dai) has nominated Syed Tayab (his Mukasir). Syed Tayyab was murdred by poisoning. Within two years Syedna Abdullah Badruddin also passes away. Than came 51th dai Taher Saifuddin Saheb and the whole system was over hauled.

Ismailis did not follow Musa Kazim and his successors as Moosa Kazim was Care taker so how come boharas following the dais who were care takers? Secondly what was the need to appoint Musa Kazim as a care taker while Imam Jafar us Sadiq was alive as Imam.



jamanpasand
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#29

Unread post by jamanpasand » Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:43 pm

You may have your own interpretations of the history. However, you can not ignore the basic
fact that it is the power of a person at that point of time which creates a history-- wrong or right. Is declaration of Mehdi as imam any different from Tahir Saifuddin becoming a Dai-e-Mutlaq ?



jamanpasand
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#30

Unread post by jamanpasand » Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:10 pm

Most of the historians were on the payroll of their Masters in different era. Daftary got his pay check from Aga Khan. There is no such thing as true history. That is why the masses are confused today as to whom to believe. The more you go into it, the more confused you get. Finally you draw you own biased tilt in any one direction. Then you advocate you philosophy on others.