no one has so far answered this question...
if the dai and his henchmen are collecting money in the name of the imam-uz-zaman and claim thet syedna knows his whereabouts and is in constant touch with him, then would'nt it be posible to file a writ of habeas corpus on the syedna to produce said hidden imam in court?
we have records of all the vaez's from last several decades and can further tape the present ones, add to it the emails and forms where they openly demand salaams for the imam etc. shouldnt that be enough proof that a massive fraud has been committed on a naive and gullible bohra community over decades?
and if the dai says that he exists, then we legally demand to see him. if he denies it then we can demand a full refund with interest of all our accumulated payments and moreover boot out the entire corrupt establishment and flush them down the drains. if that spells the end of the bohra faith, then so be it.
isnt this an absolutely beautiful legal conundrum? anyone here to bell the cat?
writ of habeas corpus on the syedna to produce hidden im
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Al Zulfiqar
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kaki akela
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Re: writ of habeas corpus on the syedna to produce hidden im
Bro Al Zulfiqar:
I think you are mistaken in thinking that "syedna has claimed he knows where Imam-uz-zamaan is physically." In my recollection he has never done that. He claims he gets Taeed from the Imam. Taeed is like telepathy, and he is not in constant touch as you claim. he gets taeed when he asks Imam's help or guidance and he gets it or when Imam decides to give him guidance. So your Habeas Corpus would be a waste. The money he collects for or in the name of Imam is used to do the things Imam would do if he were present,i.e.,making zarih on Imam Husain, Molatena Fatema,or re-constructing all Imam's masjids in Cairo etc. As ex-momin if you worry as to how he spends this money, don't you think as a Dai he is not worried to spend it wisely and properly. you have lost faith in his judgment and you seem to be filled with so much anger(which is obvious from your language) towards dawat and dai that is not very healthy for your
mental health and sanity, and you should seek professional help and soon.
Faith is to believe what we don't see, and the reward of faith is to see what we believe. we have faith in our Dai and Imam which you have lost and you will be the sorry one when the rewards are handed out.
I think you are mistaken in thinking that "syedna has claimed he knows where Imam-uz-zamaan is physically." In my recollection he has never done that. He claims he gets Taeed from the Imam. Taeed is like telepathy, and he is not in constant touch as you claim. he gets taeed when he asks Imam's help or guidance and he gets it or when Imam decides to give him guidance. So your Habeas Corpus would be a waste. The money he collects for or in the name of Imam is used to do the things Imam would do if he were present,i.e.,making zarih on Imam Husain, Molatena Fatema,or re-constructing all Imam's masjids in Cairo etc. As ex-momin if you worry as to how he spends this money, don't you think as a Dai he is not worried to spend it wisely and properly. you have lost faith in his judgment and you seem to be filled with so much anger(which is obvious from your language) towards dawat and dai that is not very healthy for your
mental health and sanity, and you should seek professional help and soon.
Faith is to believe what we don't see, and the reward of faith is to see what we believe. we have faith in our Dai and Imam which you have lost and you will be the sorry one when the rewards are handed out.
Re: writ of habeas corpus on the syedna to produce hidden im
Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for the lost faith in ourselves.
Eric Hoffer
Eric Hoffer
Re: writ of habeas corpus on the syedna to produce hidden im
KAKI Akela wrote:
will be the sorry one when the rewards are handed out.
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WHEN ARE THE REWARDS BEING HANDED OUT
Right now the rewards seems to be going to KOTHARIS only
From your name it seems you are VERY AKELA.someone who has so much faith in Syedna should not be AKELA.
will be the sorry one when the rewards are handed out.
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WHEN ARE THE REWARDS BEING HANDED OUT
Right now the rewards seems to be going to KOTHARIS only
From your name it seems you are VERY AKELA.someone who has so much faith in Syedna should not be AKELA.
Re: writ of habeas corpus on the syedna to produce hidden im
But then the Kotharis, like the radical islamists would counter the argument that they follow the religious law or Sharia - not the man-made common, civil, criminal, constitutional or any statutory law or legal instruments such as the "writ of habeas corpus".
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Al Zulfiqar
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Re: writ of habeas corpus on the syedna to produce hidden im
""As ex-momin if you worry as to how he spends this money, don't you think as a Dai he is not worried to spend it wisely and properly..""
exactly kaki..!!
when the dai and his family are living lavishly on the money extorted from the community, enjoying thousands of ziyafats, travelling in chartered flights first class, going for hunting trips and killing endangered animals, uttering laanats on all those who dare to question them, inflicting suffering and misery on widows and the poor etc, then the dai is not worried about the hidden imam or even Allah?!
when the ex-tyrant dai taher saifuddin was proved to be a liar in court or indulged in extra-marital affairs, (proof is that his wife's urus is not celebrated, and no mention is made of her, whereas burhan's wife's is celebrated with great fanfare) when the women of udaipur were raped and betaen up in galiyakot in front of the dai, when YN was caught smuggling diamonds and precious stones and when the dai was banned from tanzania for money laundering, did he have any fear of the imam or Allah?
re: all the masjids that the dai is inaugurating all over the world, show how much the dai and his family have contributed in even one of them with audited accounts, if you have the guts and the conscience. it is all the hard-earned money of the community and he takes the credit??
when Ali ibne Abi Talib himself welcomed any enquiries about the baitul maal, who is this ordinary dai that he dares silence any voices of enquiry?
as for the rewards.., we can see who is getting all the worldly rewards from the contributions of the community! the parasites of the so called royal family. who has made them royal? they themselves, at the cost of a gullible community whom they are deceiving in the name of religion!
shame on you, you liar!
exactly kaki..!!
when the dai and his family are living lavishly on the money extorted from the community, enjoying thousands of ziyafats, travelling in chartered flights first class, going for hunting trips and killing endangered animals, uttering laanats on all those who dare to question them, inflicting suffering and misery on widows and the poor etc, then the dai is not worried about the hidden imam or even Allah?!
when the ex-tyrant dai taher saifuddin was proved to be a liar in court or indulged in extra-marital affairs, (proof is that his wife's urus is not celebrated, and no mention is made of her, whereas burhan's wife's is celebrated with great fanfare) when the women of udaipur were raped and betaen up in galiyakot in front of the dai, when YN was caught smuggling diamonds and precious stones and when the dai was banned from tanzania for money laundering, did he have any fear of the imam or Allah?
re: all the masjids that the dai is inaugurating all over the world, show how much the dai and his family have contributed in even one of them with audited accounts, if you have the guts and the conscience. it is all the hard-earned money of the community and he takes the credit??
when Ali ibne Abi Talib himself welcomed any enquiries about the baitul maal, who is this ordinary dai that he dares silence any voices of enquiry?
as for the rewards.., we can see who is getting all the worldly rewards from the contributions of the community! the parasites of the so called royal family. who has made them royal? they themselves, at the cost of a gullible community whom they are deceiving in the name of religion!
shame on you, you liar!
Re: writ of habeas corpus on the syedna to produce hidden im
There are hundreds hacking at the branches of evil but who is striking at its root.
Re: writ of habeas corpus on the syedna to produce hidden im
Telepathy? Telepathy? What rubbish is this?Taeed is like telepathy, and he is not in constant touch as you claim
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Al Zulfiqar
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Re: writ of habeas corpus on the syedna to produce hidden im
if the dai doesnt know the physical whereabouts of the imam-uz-zamaan but knows that the progeny of imam-ut-tayeb continue to flourish, including right now, shoudn't he convey the message to imam of this zamaan that there is no more danger to him and thet he should reveal himself and come out in the open? or is it that this poor hidden imam is waiting for the syedna's permission?
either way, it is as fantastic a tale as the creation and belief in the elephant-headed god ganesh!
i still ask, what about the moneys collected in the name of this hidden imam?
and is the dai getting vahi from the imam like the prophet got from Allah through Gibrael? so why not then declare the dai as the prophet himself and make it easier for him to loot more openly? which doesnt imply of course, that this is what the prophet did, but it will simplify this tortorous and convoluted story for all the sheep bohras.
either way, it is as fantastic a tale as the creation and belief in the elephant-headed god ganesh!
i still ask, what about the moneys collected in the name of this hidden imam?
and is the dai getting vahi from the imam like the prophet got from Allah through Gibrael? so why not then declare the dai as the prophet himself and make it easier for him to loot more openly? which doesnt imply of course, that this is what the prophet did, but it will simplify this tortorous and convoluted story for all the sheep bohras.
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Al Zulfiqar
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Re: writ of habeas corpus on the syedna to produce hidden im
lonely kaki,
1. has the hidden imam never told the dai during these taeed sessions why we cannot celebrate the urus of taher saifuudin's first wife (burhan's mother)?
2. are you going to do the honourable thing and settle the outstanding amounts owed to taherbhai poonawala by the coward amil hatim of poona since 30 years, when taherbhai was made baraat? i am asking u this because u are so much in favour of the kothar and the dai and this shameful debt is a slur on the kothars name...
when u get a taeed, pls reply.
1. has the hidden imam never told the dai during these taeed sessions why we cannot celebrate the urus of taher saifuudin's first wife (burhan's mother)?
2. are you going to do the honourable thing and settle the outstanding amounts owed to taherbhai poonawala by the coward amil hatim of poona since 30 years, when taherbhai was made baraat? i am asking u this because u are so much in favour of the kothar and the dai and this shameful debt is a slur on the kothars name...
when u get a taeed, pls reply.
Re: writ of habeas corpus on the syedna to produce hidden im
"if the dai and his henchmen are collecting money in the name of the imam-uz-zaman and claim thet syedna knows his whereabouts and is in constant touch with him, then would'nt it be posible to file a writ of habeas corpus on the syedna to produce said hidden imam in court?"
Can Saifuddin Insaf or Dr.Asghar Ali Engineer shed some light on the above subject?
Can burhan and and his henchmen be prosecuted for the above crime?
Can Saifuddin Insaf or Dr.Asghar Ali Engineer shed some light on the above subject?
Can burhan and and his henchmen be prosecuted for the above crime?
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Al Zulfiqar
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Re: writ of habeas corpus on the syedna to produce hidden im
bhai sajjad,
the silence of the higher ups in the reformist movement on this particular question is.... as one would say "highly eloquent" !!!
i dont know why no one wants to face this vexatious issue, why is the imam hiding and why is the dai not revealing him? if the imam has some reasons to fear for his life (maybe from the dai and his cosa nostra family), then why does he authorise this dai to collect money on his behalf???
when will this timid imam and his family reveal himself, when the entire world is bohra or when the ismailies convert to our brand of non-islam? when the ismaili imam is openly moving about is prospering and has never hidden himself, why our imam is underground?
when Maulana ali, and his sons and their families openly challenged tyranny and accepted self-sacrifice, why does this imam's family hide? do they not have the brave and daring blood of Ali and Imam Hussain running through their veins?
the silence of the higher ups in the reformist movement on this particular question is.... as one would say "highly eloquent" !!!
i dont know why no one wants to face this vexatious issue, why is the imam hiding and why is the dai not revealing him? if the imam has some reasons to fear for his life (maybe from the dai and his cosa nostra family), then why does he authorise this dai to collect money on his behalf???
when will this timid imam and his family reveal himself, when the entire world is bohra or when the ismailies convert to our brand of non-islam? when the ismaili imam is openly moving about is prospering and has never hidden himself, why our imam is underground?
when Maulana ali, and his sons and their families openly challenged tyranny and accepted self-sacrifice, why does this imam's family hide? do they not have the brave and daring blood of Ali and Imam Hussain running through their veins?
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udaipurresident
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Re: writ of habeas corpus on the syedna to produce hidden im
Janab zulfi,Originally posted by Al Zulfiqar:
when Maulana ali, and his sons and their families openly challenged tyranny and accepted self-sacrifice, why does this imam's family hide? do they not have the brave and daring blood of Ali and Imam Hussain running through their veins?
does this also mean that the 3 mastoor imams who had preceeded before imam abdallah were not inherting "brave and daring blood of Ali and Imam Hussain running through their veins?"Bcoz whatever knowledge i(and including majority of bohras be it reformists or orthodox) have these imams went into seclusion.Brother i think you should be duly awarded from bringing up this xtreme exposay(pls dont mind the vocabulary).
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Al Zulfiqar
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Re: writ of habeas corpus on the syedna to produce hidden im
udaipurwala,
the 3 mastoor imams existed in a time, when actual threats probably existed to their survival, but it was for a short period only. after the 21st imam taiyeeb went into hiding, its been almost 800 years+, and all we have is the assurances and promises of the syednas that their progeny exist and from among them one is chosen as the legitimate successor, the imam-uz-zaman, and that this imam communicates with the dai of the time blah blah blah....
until such time that the dai's were people of integrity and did real work of calling people to the faith, carried out actual sincere work of dawaah and lived simple, austere and exemplary lives, we took them at their word on all matters religious, incl. this theory of the hidden imams, but since the days of taher saifuddin and his reign of terror, exploitation, power and money grabbing, throwing all the principles of our deen and morality on the garbage heap, we doubt whether his assurances or his equally inept and tyrannical son's claims about the imam-uz-zaman can be taken seriously.
let us assume that this hidden imam does exist why doesnt he reveal himself and why does he allow such a dai and his abusive family to reign in his name? where are his principles and integrity that he silently witnesses the injustices and outright loot of the bohras?
this was my point but instead of trying to understand this simple issue, you want to pick an argument, simply for the sake of acting belligerent. either u are a dimwit or u are a fanatic abde-syedna in disguise.
the 3 mastoor imams existed in a time, when actual threats probably existed to their survival, but it was for a short period only. after the 21st imam taiyeeb went into hiding, its been almost 800 years+, and all we have is the assurances and promises of the syednas that their progeny exist and from among them one is chosen as the legitimate successor, the imam-uz-zaman, and that this imam communicates with the dai of the time blah blah blah....
until such time that the dai's were people of integrity and did real work of calling people to the faith, carried out actual sincere work of dawaah and lived simple, austere and exemplary lives, we took them at their word on all matters religious, incl. this theory of the hidden imams, but since the days of taher saifuddin and his reign of terror, exploitation, power and money grabbing, throwing all the principles of our deen and morality on the garbage heap, we doubt whether his assurances or his equally inept and tyrannical son's claims about the imam-uz-zaman can be taken seriously.
let us assume that this hidden imam does exist why doesnt he reveal himself and why does he allow such a dai and his abusive family to reign in his name? where are his principles and integrity that he silently witnesses the injustices and outright loot of the bohras?
this was my point but instead of trying to understand this simple issue, you want to pick an argument, simply for the sake of acting belligerent. either u are a dimwit or u are a fanatic abde-syedna in disguise.
Re: writ of habeas corpus on the syedna to produce hidden im
^
Good quesion going unanswered. If we accept the principle that the Syedna is responsible for the actions of his kothar, by the same logic, should not the Imam uz zaman be asked about what is happening in his name?
Either he is not there or is an abettor.
Can all the knowledgeable people answer?
Good quesion going unanswered. If we accept the principle that the Syedna is responsible for the actions of his kothar, by the same logic, should not the Imam uz zaman be asked about what is happening in his name?
Either he is not there or is an abettor.
Can all the knowledgeable people answer?