competition of constructing More masjids

[Kulsumbai]

These guys are bussy in constructing more and more musjids in different part of the world

http://www.dubaijamaat.org/masjid/deira/masjid.php

and also

http://akdn.org/graphics/dubai/MODEL.JPG

Is there a competition going on or what?

[mumineen]

The rumours from the Kothari Bohris are that the present Aqa Moula wishes to make it to the Guiness Book of World Records for the person who constructed the most number of mosques.

[anajmi]

Well, I wouldn't mind his constructing a lot of mosques. I just wish they would allow all muslims to pray, cause unless they do that, it is not a house of god but a house of syedna.

Of course for other muslims to come and pray they would have to remove the syedna's idols from inside the mosques.

[Average Bohra]

I just wish they would allow all muslims to pray, cause unless they do that, it is not a house of god but a house of syedna.

You mean like they do in the Wahabi Mecca Saudi Arabia ? You guys allow all Muslims to worship as they please there ?

[Average Bohra]

You mean if Agakhani children were victims of fire, you guys would rescue them in spite of them not wearings Burkahs ?

[sinsaf]

Our beloved Sayedna Saheb has not contributed an inch of land. He is demolishing the old structures and constructing new mosques on the same land. He also, in the process usurp lots adjoining lands and properties. Also he wipes out name of original doners and acquire new mosques in his name. He also collects crores of rupees from the community to built mosques exploiting the community's religious sentiments.
The individuals who are befefited by this construction process are always remain loyal to him.

[Muslim First]

.
Quote form Average Bohra:

You mean like they do in the Wahabi Mecca Saudi Arabia ? You guys allow all Muslims to worship as they please there ?

Br. Average Bohra:

One of three sacred Masjid of Islam. Worship of Allah in His Masjid can be done only in a way as shown by the Prophet of Allah. Prayers are performed in Mecca and in Madina continually since the days of Prophet SAW. Any deviation will be noticed and will not be tolerated. There are many deviant sects who have introduced the innovations to suite the whims of their leaders.

When I go to Bohra Masjid, I must respect their way of worship even though I might not agree with it. I have option to participate or respectfully sit on side. You cannot insist that the way Agha Khanis pray can be tolerated in Mecca.

Your

You mean if Agakhani children were victims of fire, you guys would rescue them in spite of them not wearing Burkahs ?

Not rescuing School girls from fire was a colossal mistake and a lesson for SA authorities. It was condemned. And hope it will not be repeated.

Wasalaam

.

[Muslim First]

.
Br.anajmi wrote:

Well, I wouldn't mind his constructing a lot of mosques. I just wish they would allow all muslims to pray, cause unless they do that, it is not a house of god but a house of syedna.

I do not think majority of Muslims are clamoring to go and pray in Bohra Masjid. It is accepted fact that one can pray in Shia or Sunni Masjid without hindrance. Only Bohra and ASga Khanis prevent other Muslims form coming to their place of Worship. Who cares?

Wasalaam

.

[Muslim]

Worship of Allah in His Masjid can be done only in a way as shown by the Prophet of Allah.

Using this logic, the Sunni prayer itself is "deviated" with additions to the adhaan ("prayer is better than sleep"), introducing new types of prayers (taraweh) and countless differences in prayer between the 4 schools of thought introduced according to the "whims of their leaders", but I don't see all these being banned. So please don't flatter yourself into thinking the fanatics are interested in prayer the "way as shown by the Prophet of Allah." The real problem is their intolerance towards Shia, or for that matter, anyone who does not agree with their way of thinking.

--------

Anajmi,
Non-Bohras are allowed to pray in Bohra mosques as long as they follow the dress-code. The fact that they don't normally do doesn't mean they are not allowed.

Of course for other muslims to come and pray they would have to remove the syedna's idols from inside the mosques.

What do you mean?

-------

S. Insaf,

I agree, mosque-building is good but any requirement for constructing a mosque should be assessed and managed by a representative local jamaat rather than the kothar. At the moment, the only time the local community is involved is paying for it.

[khuzema]

Islam is full of Pluralism. Unless we understand and respect other sects of Islam we are not at all tolerant towards other sects. Shies are different then Sunnis, Indian Muslims are different then Saudi Muslims, Chinese Muslims are different then Pakistani Muslims, Indonesian Muslims are different then Syrian Muslims. The rituals followed by them are very different from one another. All of them claim that they are most correct. But no one should claim that other sects are wrong.

Though there is lots of Pluralism in Islam but we all believe in one Allah and the muhammad as his last prophet.

[anajmi]

I am sorry guys, I made a mistake in wishing that one muslim sect would allow another muslim sect to worship allah in a mosque they have built. Whether it be shias or sunnis, the reason that they are getting kicked in their backsides these days is because they are sunnis and shias first and muslims next.

And the biggest irony over here is that the rest of the world coniders the Muslims, whether they be shias or sunnis, as one. Terrorsits.

Shame on us Muslims. Look at one muslim leader captured from a spider hole. This fuck had 22 palaces, for what. How many palaces do you need to live in? Then there is this Syedna. I am sure his end is going to be similar.

Look at the calamity that struck the muslims of Iran - 40000 dead in one stoke. Has god given up on Muslims. if he has, why?

Allah has made Saddam an example for us muslims to learn from. I don't think that is happening though.

The prophet (sas) said that the example of muslim ummah is like that of 73 prisoners with 72 destined to die in the morning and each one beating a drum saying that it is he who is going to survive. Not one amongst them believes that it is he who is going to die even though the probability of being dead is 72 times that of being alive the next day.

May Allah help us all.

[anajmi]

Br. Muslim,

You said "Non-Bohras are allowed to pray in Bohra mosques as long as they follow the dress-code. The fact that they don't normally do doesn't mean they are not allowed."

What dress code is this? The prophet has allowed prayer in the nude if you cannot afford to buy clothes. If I am near a bohra mosque and it is time to pray, do I think about what I am wearing or do I worry about missing my prayer?

And when I spoke about Syedna idols, I meant his pictures.

[Muslim]

<i>The prophet has allowed prayer in the nude if you cannot afford to buy clothes. </i>

In a mosque?

<i>If I am near a bohra mosque and it is time to pray, do I think about what I am wearing or do I worry about missing my prayer? </i>

The problem then is not the fact that you have to change clothes, but that you are LATE. You have to think about doing Wudhu right? So go earlier.

<i>And when I spoke about Syedna idols, I meant his pictures. </i>

That's interesting. I've yet to see Syedna's photo in the prayer area in any Bohra mosque I've been to.

[mumineen]

Anjami: "That's interesting. I've yet to see Syedna's photo in the prayer area in any Bohra mosque I've been to."
*************************************************
Respose: Please see:

Bohri Saifee Masjid in Toronto: PICTURE No.6

http://www.torontojamat.com/Photos/eidpictures.htm

(picture no.6)

[Muslim]

am sorry guys, I made a mistake in wishing that one muslim sect would allow another muslim sect to worship allah in a mosque they have built.

They are allowed in. The problem is that some people can't stand the fact that another community has slightly different rules or customs. That's intolerance and that's the problem.

Whether it be shias or sunnis, the reason that they are getting kicked in their backsides these days is because they are sunnis and shias first and muslims next

I don't agree. The different divisions are a reality so we should accept this and respect each other's views. Also, debate between them is healthy. What is not healthy is the hatred and intolerance preached by some on each side.

And the biggest irony over here is that the rest of the world coniders the Muslims, whether they be shias or sunnis, as one. Terrorsits.

Not really. I think most people are smart enough to distinguish between a minority of terrorists and the majority of law-abiding Muslims. Terrorism itself is due to intolerance.

[Muslim]

Sorry, that doesn't look like the main prayer area but the side of the hall area, as you can see from #2. It is possible there would be one in the main prayer area, but I have not seen that yet.

Originally posted by mumineen:
Anjami: "That's interesting. I've yet to see Syedna's photo in the prayer area in any Bohra mosque I've been to."
*************************************************
Respose: Please see:

Bohri Saifee Masjid in Toronto: PICTURE No.6

http://www.torontojamat.com/Photos/eidpictures.htm

(picture no.6)

[anajmi]

Br. Muslim,

Yes, the prophet has allowed prayers in the nude in the mosque. The only condition on the person performing the prayer is that he is not supposed to stand but complete his prayers in a sitting position.

<The problem then is not the fact that you have to change clothes, but that you are LATE. You have to think about doing Wudhu right? So go earlier.>

OK, now I think you must be joking. The azaan is there for a reason. The fard prayer starts a few minutes after the azaan to give people enough time to perform wudhu or to perform sunnah if you are there ahead of time, and that is why the facility to perform wudhu is normally provided inside a mosque. Bottom line, there is no dress code from the prophet(sas). Although there are a few guidelines from him. The bottom part of your dress should be above the ankles. Clothes should be clean, but there is a hadith which indicates that the prophet performed prayer in clothes which were stained, so that is not a fard so to say. The head should be covered but prayers can be offered even if it is not. Maximum points for a turban and minimum points for not covering it at all.

As far as Syedna's photos in the prayer area are concerned, I haven't been to a bohra mosque in a long time, so I guess things are improving.

<They are allowed in. The problem is that some people can't stand the fact that another community has slightly different rules or customs. That's intolerance and that's the problem.> -
You are right, are you also one of them?

<I don't agree. The different divisions are a reality so we should accept this and respect each other's views. Also, debate between them is healthy. What is not healthy is the hatred and intolerance preached by some on each side. >
I don't agree. The different divisions are a reality and that is why we need to change this reality. Debate between them would be healthy if at the end, one could accept the other's point of view and follow it as his own.

One thing is for sure, either 90% of the people who belive in Allah and his rasul are going to hell, or 10% of the people who believe in Allah and his rasul are going to hell. Either way, Muslims loose.

<Not really. I think most people are smart enough to distinguish between a minority of terrorists and the majority of law-abiding Muslims. Terrorism itself is due to intolerance. >
Which most people are you talking about? Most people on this board cannot see the difference!!

[Muslim First]

.
Br. Muslim
AS
you said;

Using this logic, the Sunni prayer itself is "deviated" with additions to the adhaan ("prayer is better than sleep"), introducing new types of prayers (taraweh) and countless differences in prayer between the 4 schools of thought introduced according to the "whims of their leaders",

Let me clarify your misconception about Adhan. Adan was a system devised to call people to prayers. Hadith goes as follows;

(From Sunan of Abu-Dawud (Hadith No.199)

Narrated Mu'adh ibn Jabal

Prayer passed through three stages and fasting also passed through three stages. The narrator Nasr reported the rest of the tradition completely. The narrator, Ibn al-Muthanna, narrated the story of saying prayer facing in the direction of Jerusalem. He said: The third stage is that the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) came to Medina and prayed, i.e. facing Jerusalem, for thirteen months. Then Allah, the Exalted, revealed the verse: "We have seen thee turning thy face to Heaven (for guidance, O Muhammad). And now verily We shall make thee turn (in prayer) toward a qiblah which is dear to thee. So turn thy face toward the Inviolable Place of Worship, and ye (O Muslims), wherever ye may be, turn your face (when ye pray) toward it" (ii.144). And Allah, the Reverend and the
Majestic, turned (them) towards the Ka'bah. He (the narrator) completed his tradition. The narrator, Nasr, mentioned the name of the person who had the dream, saying: And Abdullah ibn Zayd, a man from the Ansar, came. The same version reads: And he turned his face towards the qiblah and said:
Allah is most great, Allah is most great;
I testify that there is no god but Allah, I testify that there is no god but Allah;
I testify that Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah, I testify that Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah; come to prayer (he pronounced it twice),
come to salvation (he pronounced it twice); Allah is Most Great,
Allah is most great.

He then paused for a while, and then got up and pronounced in a similar way, except that after the phrase "Come to salvation" he added.

"The time for prayer has come; the time for prayer has come."

The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) said: Teach it to Bilal, then pronounce the Adhan (call to prayer) with the same words.—(Hadith goes on to describe Fasting).

As Hadith says, prayer passed thru several stages. Four Scholars of Islam arrived at some differences in fine points of prayer movements due to different sources. But you miss the whole point of Salah. Salah is for the worship of Allah SWT only. Masjid is a place where only Allah SWT should be worshipped. Heretic sects of Islam also worship Taghoots along with Allah in Masjids. I have personally observed Bohras sing ‘Ghanu Jivo, Ghanu Jivo between Magrib and Isha prayers. I have seen them sing song in memory of Hussain and beat their chest in between prayers. I have seen them offering 2 Rakah prayers for their Sultan immediately after prayers.

Who says Bohras are not allowed to offer prayers in Mecca and Madina. Of course they are. They are not allowed to do sing songs and Maatam that they think is part of (Islamic) worship.

Wasalaam

.

[Muslim]

Anajmi: You can believe what you want but the Prophet didn't allow nude prayers in a mosque or any such sick notion. He did allow that in private, for a person who cannot afford clothes to illustrate the importance of prayers. If you cannot afford clothes, by all means go nude. If you have time to do wudhu or pray sunnat, even after the adhan, surely you have time to quickly change your clothes.

Secondly, by telling me the minimum requirements for prayer, you are missing the point. You are able to pray anywhere you like by following those rules, but since you want to go to a Bohra mosque, you have to follow their rules. You may not like, I may not like, however legitimate the reasons, but the fact is that it is a Bohra-run mosque and if they choose to adhere more strictly to the Prophet's "guidelines", that is their choice.

I personally agree with you from a religous point of view that the dress-code is not necessary, but if I insist on going to a Bohra mosque, I have to follow their rules and wear the kurta-topi because they see it differently.

MF:
" prayer passed thru several stages "

Let's cut the BS. That is just a nice way of saying: "Our leaders deviated, fabricated and altered the prayer as they saw fit." I suggest you stop being a hypocrite and contact the Saudi government and ask them to ban the Umar-devised adhan before coming here and criticizing others' rituals.

[hur]

conviction to the faith

the main topics/arguments of this thread is:

1.) The dai building too many mosque...you don't hear that as a complaint too often.

2.) Whether one should be allowed to pray with as little or clean clothes (possibly naked) or fully dressed in sunnah clothing to the point of changing clothes to enter the mosque.

3.) How much one sect has deviated versus their own...without actually referencing the Quran and traditions in all cases.

NICE WORK YOU GUYS.

[Muslim]

3.) How much one sect has deviated versus their own...without actually referencing the Quran and traditions in all cases.

The sectarian debate has been going on for over a thousand years with each side producing great deal of literature in their defence. It is not necessary for me to repeat all that, nor is this the primary focus of this forum. Someone who is interested in these issues can lookup the references in the many resources online and in libraries.

In any case, the importance and interpretation of any reference quoted is relative to a person's viewpoint. For example, I am Shia. Abu Dawood, Bukhari, etc are not necessarily relevant for me. Apparently MF doesn't get that.

[Muslim]

Secondly, many of the topics are repetitions and references have been quoted. It is not necessary to repeat all of them.

[mumineen]

Muslim: "Sorry, that doesn't look like the main prayer area but the side of the hall area, as you can see from #2. It is possible there would be one in the main prayer area, but I have not seen that yet."
*************************************************
Picture No. 6:
http://www.torontojamat.com/Photos/eidpictures.htm

It seems to be one side of the prayers hall. The members of congregation are sitting on their Mussallah (prayer rugs) in the "saf" order. Even the young kid standing at the back apperars to be looking for a place to sit - with the prayer rug in his hands.

[Muslim]

In Bohras there is this concept of the prayer area being "waqf"(?) and considered a proper part of the mosque. The back hall usually is not, but if there is no space inside, people pray there anyway. This is what I was referring to, that appears to be the case for those pictures.

Anyway, I agree that there is no need for such excessive devotion with photographs of Syedna being put up in every home let alone near a mosque. However its one thing to say that, and another to claim that a photo on the hall of a mosque is an "idol". Remember, certain fanatics consider ANY photograph of a person is "haraam" (see below).

-----------

Question: A Muslim man owns a camera, and (now) Allaah has guided him to knowing the truth regarding taking pictures. So is there any sin upon him if he was to was to rid himself of it by selling it since it is still new, and also, he is in need of the money?

Response: Taking pictures of (all) that which has a soul (from amongst the humans and animals) is absolutely haraam, unless there arises a (genuine) need such as a photograph for the passport for example. So selling the camera to whoever will use it in taking haraam pictures is (in itself) haraam. And selling it to whoever will use it in taking photographs of (all) that which has a soul (from amongst the humans and animals) or other than that, where a (genuine) need has arisen is permissible.

http://www.fatwa-online.com/fataawa/cre ... 0513_8.htm

[anajmi]

Br. Muslim,

I have not been to a bohra mosque in years and have no need to do anytime soon. There are enough muslim mosques around where I can offer my prayers and nobody questioned me or has asked me to follow their own rules. I am not the one loosing out over here.

As far as praying in the nude is concerned, you too can believe what you like - isn't that what we are good at?

<If you have time to do wudhu or pray sunnat, even after the adhan, surely you have time to quickly change your clothes.>

That is the problem that I first mentioned. I have to worry about what I am wearing in order to enter a bohra mosque. Is it any wonder that I do not anymore?

[Muslim First]

.
Br.Muslim Said;

Let's cut the BS. That is just a nice way of saying: "Our leaders deviated, fabricated and altered the prayer as they saw fit." I suggest you stop being a hypocrite and contact the Saudi government and ask them to ban the Umar-devised adhan before coming here and criticizing others' rituals.

Its not up to SA Govt. to ban Adhan in Macca. Same Adhan was called even when Prophet was there. Abu Bakr Answered it, Umar answered it, Usman answered it and Ali answered it. You might not like it that it was inspired by Umar but Prophet approved it. (There is a Hadith in Bukhari about it). I know it does not cut your muster. Tough my brother. I hope you will stop worshipping Taghoots and start worshipping Allah alone.

Wasalaam

.

[MOHD HUSSAIN]

You have all gone out of track as usual as we are talking about the costuction of Masjids by the Syedna & assoc- Latest I heard from a friend in Dahod is that the Amil there ran away with Rs 1.5 crores & built a big house in Surat for his family---& while he left he burnt all the papers related to the account of construction of the masjid there 2 yrs ago which was inugrated by the Sultan Syedna at the tune of 1 crore Rs salams --So the moral is who benifits with the construction of Masjids? go figure it out!