I have struggled for many years to find an analogy with our condition within the community and it finally came to me.Now tthat we understand it we can find solutions. Tell me what you think:
We are all in an abusive relationship with the community where we are sufferring from mental cruelty inflicted upon us by the Kothar. We, however, continue to stay in this relationship for the sake of our children otherwise they will not be able to marry nor will our elderly parents be buried etc. Sound similar. Yes! we continue to stay in and not seek a divorce and find a new spouse (religion) because the odds are the same as what a wife in an abusive relationship experiences and the options she is faced with. We are all abused spouses! How do you break this cycle? One could leave the realtionship and seek a divorce but that is easier said than done when your community is not only your religious base but also your social sphere. We could divorce our leader but that is not possible. He is too powerful like an Afghani war lord and he will evict us from the house. The only way we can break this cycle is to empower our women. Our women must be educated so that they can stand up along side their husbands and say to the Kothars "We shall not take your BS". When tehy demand more money our wives will tell teh Amil NO more! Until that happens we shall all remain abused spouses going to majlis meekly for more torture. Educate your daughters. Make sure they do not come under the knife like so many of our sisters who went sheepishly to have their sex drives stilted. Wake up my friends. Confronting this juggernaut is not the way to reform this community. Educate and empower yor daughters and give tehm a way to look at life differently. Once our wives are educated we shall bring this monster down.
<small>[ 12-20-2003, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: Admin ]</small>
abused spouses we are!
Re: abused spouses we are!
The "abusive relationship" analogy is excellent. The solutions you offer are correct. But I don't think confrontation can be avoided. You will have to confront your abuser sooner or later. But it is better to confront from the position strength.
This strength can be achieved by, as you rightly suggest, education of women. (The Udaipur reformist movement has lasted for more than 30 years solely because of the commitment of women. Without their support and conviction the movement would have crumbled long ago. And generally reformist women in Udaipur are more educated than their "orthodox" sisters.)
I would also add 'awareness' to education. To combat an abusive relationship you need to be aware of your rights. Given our situation, we all (men and women) need to be aware of our religion, the fatimid doctrine from source books, cut through the esoteric crap Kothar feeds us with. Confront your local mullahs with your superior knowledge of your religion. Laugh in their face when they talk about mola's hikmat or the usual 'baatin' BS.
Know the law of the land where you live, threaten greedy amils with lawsuits and charges of extortion, prevent the Sayedna from acquiring community property (which Canadian reformists did so brilliantly), threaten to expose them to the Muslim world for their unIslamic practices.
There is so much we can do ... all you need is a little imagingation, awareness, courage and the will.
This strength can be achieved by, as you rightly suggest, education of women. (The Udaipur reformist movement has lasted for more than 30 years solely because of the commitment of women. Without their support and conviction the movement would have crumbled long ago. And generally reformist women in Udaipur are more educated than their "orthodox" sisters.)
I would also add 'awareness' to education. To combat an abusive relationship you need to be aware of your rights. Given our situation, we all (men and women) need to be aware of our religion, the fatimid doctrine from source books, cut through the esoteric crap Kothar feeds us with. Confront your local mullahs with your superior knowledge of your religion. Laugh in their face when they talk about mola's hikmat or the usual 'baatin' BS.
Know the law of the land where you live, threaten greedy amils with lawsuits and charges of extortion, prevent the Sayedna from acquiring community property (which Canadian reformists did so brilliantly), threaten to expose them to the Muslim world for their unIslamic practices.
There is so much we can do ... all you need is a little imagingation, awareness, courage and the will.
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OnCrack4BeingHere
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:01 am
Re: abused spouses we are!
You are on crack!
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MOHD HUSSAIN
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: abused spouses we are!
Crack- We are on track! Very good comments Br Humsafar & Br Observer- We have to bring a revolution in the community-One idea I thought was to go protesting in groups of men & women in front of masjids Or devris with placards inviting news media to publicise the events- Called Dharnas as done by Ms Zehra Cyclewala in Surat &as was done by Noman Contractor & Sanchawalas in 60's-Massive ciculation of leaflets & relevant booklets will be helpful- We can mobilise the group from Udaipur to start with---ofcourse this requires a lot of financial backing!
Re: abused spouses we are!
Mohd Hussain:
That is a great idea. Wish you so called Reformists can come out in Dharnas and show your shameful faces. That will be a good chance to Thrash the daylights out of you. So you will know, RIGHT from WRONG. Don't keep hiding behind these forums and attack like women in purdah. Come out in the open if you have the courage.
That is a great idea. Wish you so called Reformists can come out in Dharnas and show your shameful faces. That will be a good chance to Thrash the daylights out of you. So you will know, RIGHT from WRONG. Don't keep hiding behind these forums and attack like women in purdah. Come out in the open if you have the courage.
Re: abused spouses we are!
Ignore the idiot mamluk786. It is for the likes of such idiots taht we are in such dire straits.
Some very interesting comments which will allow us to take this movement a nothc up. I think we have to brainstorm and see what the Movement can do to achieve its objectives and tehn work on some action plans.
I hear the following suggstions:
1. Education of our sisters and daughters to empower them.
2. Understanding our religion so that we do not gobble up the crap as it is fed to us by Kothar and knowledge which will give us teh ability to argue.
3. Understanding the laws of the land so that we can articulate our case to the authorities.
4. Demonstrations - this is a good idea on the face of it but is not workable because of the consequences of divorce upon coming out in the open and the fear of punishment. We will get evicted from the house.
Think reformists. We can them take these ideas and prepare a course of action and work in unison.
I am past diagnosing this community. We all know what the ailment is which makes us slaves. How do we go about breaking the hold. Members have to take control back.
Some very interesting comments which will allow us to take this movement a nothc up. I think we have to brainstorm and see what the Movement can do to achieve its objectives and tehn work on some action plans.
I hear the following suggstions:
1. Education of our sisters and daughters to empower them.
2. Understanding our religion so that we do not gobble up the crap as it is fed to us by Kothar and knowledge which will give us teh ability to argue.
3. Understanding the laws of the land so that we can articulate our case to the authorities.
4. Demonstrations - this is a good idea on the face of it but is not workable because of the consequences of divorce upon coming out in the open and the fear of punishment. We will get evicted from the house.
Think reformists. We can them take these ideas and prepare a course of action and work in unison.
I am past diagnosing this community. We all know what the ailment is which makes us slaves. How do we go about breaking the hold. Members have to take control back.
Re: abused spouses we are!
3. Understanding the laws of the land so that we can articulate our case to the authorities.
The discussion is healthy and welcome. I fully agree with most of the points raised above.
I am not a lawyer but I think with number of people coming out in open defiance of Kothar's high-handedness, the time has come to prepare a booklet "KONOW YOUR RIGHTS" giving legal remedies under the law to fight the Kothar and to take help of police, other law enforcing agencies, Human Rights Commissions, Minorities Commissions, national and international laws.
Also a team for 'King Operation' with hidden cameras and audio/video tap must come out to record the atrocities of Aamils, Shahzadas, Tanzeem etc including Outrageous revelry of Sayedna and his family, especially when they meet political leaders and organize grand functions during Sayedna’s birthday, Ramadan and Moharram.
The booklet must be modified as prevailing law in each country and must reach to every Bohra house or shop.
The discussion is healthy and welcome. I fully agree with most of the points raised above.
I am not a lawyer but I think with number of people coming out in open defiance of Kothar's high-handedness, the time has come to prepare a booklet "KONOW YOUR RIGHTS" giving legal remedies under the law to fight the Kothar and to take help of police, other law enforcing agencies, Human Rights Commissions, Minorities Commissions, national and international laws.
Also a team for 'King Operation' with hidden cameras and audio/video tap must come out to record the atrocities of Aamils, Shahzadas, Tanzeem etc including Outrageous revelry of Sayedna and his family, especially when they meet political leaders and organize grand functions during Sayedna’s birthday, Ramadan and Moharram.
The booklet must be modified as prevailing law in each country and must reach to every Bohra house or shop.
Re: abused spouses we are!
Dear brothers and sisters
first about quote from Mumluk 786
REFORMIST CAN COME OUT IN DHAMAS AND SHOW YOUR SHAMEFUL FACES THAT WILL BE A GOOD CHANCE TO THRASH DAYLIGHTS OF YOU>
So the Coward MUMLAK 786 says!! what a hypocrite these so called Kothart and Chamchas of Mr Mohammed Burhaniddin and Amils what you have seen from Gujarat communial riots and many bohras property gutted by fire and many lost their Businesses and their lives by Hindu Thugs as i have said on this forum that Bohras were so scared and Kothar were panicing that done farman not to say any thing that might create problem for Bohras with right wing Nazi Hindus, so Mr mohammed burhannuddin Appease mr Modi chief minister Buther of Gujarat and even gave some donation to nazi hindu party for good cause for gujarat!!!
If it is some one who protest against wrong doing of kothar and Amils with blessing of Kothar and Dictator mohammed Burhannuddin will set his gundas on the individual to keep him or her quiet. Well you have seen what happen to friend of Mr mohammed burhannudin (sadaam Hussein in Iraq)Sadaam was arrogant and untouchable but now he is pathetic.Sadaam secret police and Thugs use make people Disappear if you spoke out against his regime that god Mr Mohammed Burhannudin is not Head of State or in Power!!
about Bohra women they are so much brain washed by Mr Mohammed Burhannuddin that they just know him, funny thing is when ever i meet our Bohras and greet them with(salaam malikum) they never reply my salaam!! other thing the Bohri women are brain washed completely when i say with (Allah's grace i am fine) they look at me with suspicious they always reply me that (Aka Maula ni Duaa thi saru che) now i think our Bohri women even educated is brain washed, some of the Bohri womens make their Husband life miserable they just think of Mr Mohammed Burhannudin DEDAR and they Drag their Husband against their will for DEDAR of Mr Mohammed Burhannuddin. The KOTHAR likes that to control Bohri womens through brain washing propaganda machine. The Bohri Women some of them have fought Kothar and Kothar have to Bow down,If Bohri women's protest,it will bring revolution and will release Bohras from clutces from Evil Minded Kothar and Mr Mohammed Burhannuddin. The other thing reformist hasn't got that much finacial Backing from well wisher that the funding require to take Kothar to Court or Humanright commission or to Euopean court of Human rights as it helps as Kothar is clever that masjid is registered as Charitable institute, so we have got more rights to challege Kothar and their Atrocities,The CANADIAN reformist has shown how it is done. Udaipur has shown with strong willed Bohri Ladies how to Challenge Kothar Atrocities and intimidation.
Just out their in E africa, UK,Europe, America their are many Bohras some of them very well of are fed up of constant demand of Kothar for fund and Donation they can help Reformist with fund to fight Kothar and their arm twisting and intimidation, I am sure we will bring reform in Bohra communities you all musn't forget that it is our monies that Mr Mohammed Burhannudin and his 380 members of families are depending on and that they are living life of luxury it is your hard earned monies so you out there you can do something to bring refom in Bohra Community and change the Arrognce of Kothar,Amils,and members of so called Jumat committe who make Bohras life miserable like Blocking Burial,Weddings,Excommunication,intimidation and other atrocities.
Wasalaam
first about quote from Mumluk 786
REFORMIST CAN COME OUT IN DHAMAS AND SHOW YOUR SHAMEFUL FACES THAT WILL BE A GOOD CHANCE TO THRASH DAYLIGHTS OF YOU>
So the Coward MUMLAK 786 says!! what a hypocrite these so called Kothart and Chamchas of Mr Mohammed Burhaniddin and Amils what you have seen from Gujarat communial riots and many bohras property gutted by fire and many lost their Businesses and their lives by Hindu Thugs as i have said on this forum that Bohras were so scared and Kothar were panicing that done farman not to say any thing that might create problem for Bohras with right wing Nazi Hindus, so Mr mohammed burhannuddin Appease mr Modi chief minister Buther of Gujarat and even gave some donation to nazi hindu party for good cause for gujarat!!!
If it is some one who protest against wrong doing of kothar and Amils with blessing of Kothar and Dictator mohammed Burhannuddin will set his gundas on the individual to keep him or her quiet. Well you have seen what happen to friend of Mr mohammed burhannudin (sadaam Hussein in Iraq)Sadaam was arrogant and untouchable but now he is pathetic.Sadaam secret police and Thugs use make people Disappear if you spoke out against his regime that god Mr Mohammed Burhannudin is not Head of State or in Power!!
about Bohra women they are so much brain washed by Mr Mohammed Burhannuddin that they just know him, funny thing is when ever i meet our Bohras and greet them with(salaam malikum) they never reply my salaam!! other thing the Bohri women are brain washed completely when i say with (Allah's grace i am fine) they look at me with suspicious they always reply me that (Aka Maula ni Duaa thi saru che) now i think our Bohri women even educated is brain washed, some of the Bohri womens make their Husband life miserable they just think of Mr Mohammed Burhannudin DEDAR and they Drag their Husband against their will for DEDAR of Mr Mohammed Burhannuddin. The KOTHAR likes that to control Bohri womens through brain washing propaganda machine. The Bohri Women some of them have fought Kothar and Kothar have to Bow down,If Bohri women's protest,it will bring revolution and will release Bohras from clutces from Evil Minded Kothar and Mr Mohammed Burhannuddin. The other thing reformist hasn't got that much finacial Backing from well wisher that the funding require to take Kothar to Court or Humanright commission or to Euopean court of Human rights as it helps as Kothar is clever that masjid is registered as Charitable institute, so we have got more rights to challege Kothar and their Atrocities,The CANADIAN reformist has shown how it is done. Udaipur has shown with strong willed Bohri Ladies how to Challenge Kothar Atrocities and intimidation.
Just out their in E africa, UK,Europe, America their are many Bohras some of them very well of are fed up of constant demand of Kothar for fund and Donation they can help Reformist with fund to fight Kothar and their arm twisting and intimidation, I am sure we will bring reform in Bohra communities you all musn't forget that it is our monies that Mr Mohammed Burhannudin and his 380 members of families are depending on and that they are living life of luxury it is your hard earned monies so you out there you can do something to bring refom in Bohra Community and change the Arrognce of Kothar,Amils,and members of so called Jumat committe who make Bohras life miserable like Blocking Burial,Weddings,Excommunication,intimidation and other atrocities.
Wasalaam
Re: abused spouses we are!
It is extremely pathetic to hear the sad discussion that is taking place here by a few so called "Reformists".
LISTEN very CLEARLY "MUMIN BOHRAS DO NOT NEED ANY REFORM. THEY ARE PERFECTLY HAPPY IN THE 'THANDA SAYA' OF AQA MOULA TUS. YOU CAN GO AND FIND YOUR OWN RELIGION. THERE ARE THOUSANDS IN THIS WORLD."
GET THE HELL OUT !!!!!!!! GET IT !!!!!!
LISTEN very CLEARLY "MUMIN BOHRAS DO NOT NEED ANY REFORM. THEY ARE PERFECTLY HAPPY IN THE 'THANDA SAYA' OF AQA MOULA TUS. YOU CAN GO AND FIND YOUR OWN RELIGION. THERE ARE THOUSANDS IN THIS WORLD."
GET THE HELL OUT !!!!!!!! GET IT !!!!!!
Re: abused spouses we are!
YOU CAN GO AND FIND YOUR OWN RELIGION. THERE ARE THOUSANDS IN THIS WORLD.
Dear friend if you are mumluk786 and not abde-Sayedna then you should know that the very purpose of Dai and Dawal is to discuss and convince people and call them towards true Islam and NOT to throw away people from the faith through sheer frustration of not convincing them and meer fear that they will damage the Dawat.
What Sayedna Saheb and his other officials are supposed to do is done by this forum.
Dear friend if you are mumluk786 and not abde-Sayedna then you should know that the very purpose of Dai and Dawal is to discuss and convince people and call them towards true Islam and NOT to throw away people from the faith through sheer frustration of not convincing them and meer fear that they will damage the Dawat.
What Sayedna Saheb and his other officials are supposed to do is done by this forum.