Bohri masjid in Kuwait will give more problems than to solve them. I think we are better with our current Huseniya in Ardiya which fulfills almost our all needs, car parking being the biggest of them.
All we dont have is just a minaret and I think we can live without that. I dont understand what is the need to create such an issue amongst the locals which can even raise a question mark on our future stay in Kuwait.
I have seen many people(Locals and Foreigners) hating me just because of this Bohri Sticker with me.
What are we upto here?? Spreading hatred??
Hozefa Ghadiali
Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
Bohra mosque plan triggers row in Kuwait (Middle East News Times)
KUWAIT CITY -- Plans to build a mosque in Kuwait for Bohra Muslims - an offshoot of Shiite Islam - have triggered a row between liberals and Islamists in the Sunni-ruled Gulf state.
Kuwait's minister of Islamic affairs Abdullah Al Maatuq is under fire for pushing forward the mosque project, even though it has already been rejected by the emirate's municipal council.
MP Waleed Al Tabtabai of the hard-line Salafist group Tuesday threatened to quiz the minister in parliament if he does not withdraw his request to allocate 6,500 square meters (70,000 square feet) of government land for the mosque.
Maatuq said he made the request on behalf of the Kuwaiti cabinet, which recently approved a decision to grant Bohras government land for the project.
But the municipal council's technical committee last week rejected the request on the basis that none of estimated 25,000 Bohras in the Gulf state is a Kuwaiti national.
Tabtabai said the mosque plan violates "Sharia [Islamic law], country laws, and national interests," and questioned whether the Bohras, an offshoot of Shiite branch of Islam, were true Muslims.
Several other Islamist lawmakers and hard-line clerics welcomed the rejection and cast doubt on the Bohra faith.
But the Kuwait Human Rights Association said the council's rejection violated the constitution that stipulates religious freedom, and called on Prime Minister Sheikh Nasser Mohammad Al Ahmad Al Sabah to revoke the "irresponsible" decision.
It noted that Bohras have mosques in the neighboring states of the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain as well as places of worship in the United States and Britain.
Kuwait is a conservative Sunni-ruled state, but about one-third of its native population of 1 million are Shiites. It also has about 2.2 million foreign residents, most of them Asians and Arabs.
KUWAIT CITY -- Plans to build a mosque in Kuwait for Bohra Muslims - an offshoot of Shiite Islam - have triggered a row between liberals and Islamists in the Sunni-ruled Gulf state.
Kuwait's minister of Islamic affairs Abdullah Al Maatuq is under fire for pushing forward the mosque project, even though it has already been rejected by the emirate's municipal council.
MP Waleed Al Tabtabai of the hard-line Salafist group Tuesday threatened to quiz the minister in parliament if he does not withdraw his request to allocate 6,500 square meters (70,000 square feet) of government land for the mosque.
Maatuq said he made the request on behalf of the Kuwaiti cabinet, which recently approved a decision to grant Bohras government land for the project.
But the municipal council's technical committee last week rejected the request on the basis that none of estimated 25,000 Bohras in the Gulf state is a Kuwaiti national.
Tabtabai said the mosque plan violates "Sharia [Islamic law], country laws, and national interests," and questioned whether the Bohras, an offshoot of Shiite branch of Islam, were true Muslims.
Several other Islamist lawmakers and hard-line clerics welcomed the rejection and cast doubt on the Bohra faith.
But the Kuwait Human Rights Association said the council's rejection violated the constitution that stipulates religious freedom, and called on Prime Minister Sheikh Nasser Mohammad Al Ahmad Al Sabah to revoke the "irresponsible" decision.
It noted that Bohras have mosques in the neighboring states of the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain as well as places of worship in the United States and Britain.
Kuwait is a conservative Sunni-ruled state, but about one-third of its native population of 1 million are Shiites. It also has about 2.2 million foreign residents, most of them Asians and Arabs.
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
MP Hussain Al-Muzyed calls for removal of temporary Bohra Husseiniya
Published Date: October 19, 2007
By B Izzak, Staff writer
KUWAIT: The campaign against the Bohra community in Kuwait and their request for a separate mosque took a new turn yesterday when a tribal MP called on the government to remove a temporary Husseiniya used by the community. MP Hussein Muzyed said the presence of the temporary worship place in a residential area in Ardiya along the fifth ring road had been causing major traffic jams and disturbing residents of the area. The Husseiniya, which was at a rented house, had been in operation for several years as
a place for Bohras to mark their religious occasions.
Muzyed said that residents of the area have complained that the presence of the worship place had caused them lots of problems. Islamist MPs have been campaigning against the ministry of Awqaf and Islamic affairs for requesting the municipal council to allocate a government land, also in Ardiya, to build a mosque for Bohras.
The request was rejected by the technical committee but the final say on the issue will be made by the full 16-member council next week. The council of ministers had already approved to give a license to Bohras to build a mosque. Muzyed and other Islamist lawmakers said that being Muslims, Bohras should pray at any mosque in Kuwait and should demand one of their own. Some Sunni clerics branded the community as not true Muslims.
In another development, Islamist MP Adel Al-Saraawi yesterday issued a strong warning to Minister of Social Affairs and Labor Sheikh Sabah Al-Khaled Al-Sabah for failing to tackle the issue of financial and administrative wrongdoings at the Public Authority for Youth and Sports.
The lawmaker said that based on official information, the director general of the authority and one of his deputies are responsible for wide range violations. Al-Saraawi said that the National Assembly has asked the Audit Bureau to conduct an investigation into those violations and it is expected to submit its report soon.
The MP said that Sheikh Sabah Al-Khaled has so far failed to refer a report to the public prosecution on financial violations committed during the the 16th Gulf Football Cup hosted by Kuwait. The assembly's last term recommended the report to be referred.
Al-Saraawi warned that the minister must do his constitutional responsibilities by implementing the law. The minister has repeatedly come under fire because of controversies over the sports sector which is witnessing wild rivalry between various factions.
Kuwait Times
Published Date: October 19, 2007
By B Izzak, Staff writer
KUWAIT: The campaign against the Bohra community in Kuwait and their request for a separate mosque took a new turn yesterday when a tribal MP called on the government to remove a temporary Husseiniya used by the community. MP Hussein Muzyed said the presence of the temporary worship place in a residential area in Ardiya along the fifth ring road had been causing major traffic jams and disturbing residents of the area. The Husseiniya, which was at a rented house, had been in operation for several years as
a place for Bohras to mark their religious occasions.
Muzyed said that residents of the area have complained that the presence of the worship place had caused them lots of problems. Islamist MPs have been campaigning against the ministry of Awqaf and Islamic affairs for requesting the municipal council to allocate a government land, also in Ardiya, to build a mosque for Bohras.
The request was rejected by the technical committee but the final say on the issue will be made by the full 16-member council next week. The council of ministers had already approved to give a license to Bohras to build a mosque. Muzyed and other Islamist lawmakers said that being Muslims, Bohras should pray at any mosque in Kuwait and should demand one of their own. Some Sunni clerics branded the community as not true Muslims.
In another development, Islamist MP Adel Al-Saraawi yesterday issued a strong warning to Minister of Social Affairs and Labor Sheikh Sabah Al-Khaled Al-Sabah for failing to tackle the issue of financial and administrative wrongdoings at the Public Authority for Youth and Sports.
The lawmaker said that based on official information, the director general of the authority and one of his deputies are responsible for wide range violations. Al-Saraawi said that the National Assembly has asked the Audit Bureau to conduct an investigation into those violations and it is expected to submit its report soon.
The MP said that Sheikh Sabah Al-Khaled has so far failed to refer a report to the public prosecution on financial violations committed during the the 16th Gulf Football Cup hosted by Kuwait. The assembly's last term recommended the report to be referred.
Al-Saraawi warned that the minister must do his constitutional responsibilities by implementing the law. The minister has repeatedly come under fire because of controversies over the sports sector which is witnessing wild rivalry between various factions.
Kuwait Times
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ponga bhori
- Posts: 410
- Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 4:01 am
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
Hozefa,
Can you elobrate on the hate.
What for.
And do not the Bhori have religious freedom ?
It would be in order to get a Bhori Masjid in Kuwait. Why not ?
Can you elobrate on the hate.
What for.
And do not the Bhori have religious freedom ?
It would be in order to get a Bhori Masjid in Kuwait. Why not ?
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
Bohras in Kuwait: Sunni Perspective
From: Kuwait Times | Date: 10/17/2007
Oct. 17--KUWAIT -- Sunni cleric Sheikh Mohammad Al-Hamoud, who is a member of the Jamiyat Ahiya Al-Torath, a local Salafist organization, spoke to Kuwait Times about the Bohra religion and some of the practices which separate it from the mainstream Muslim community.
Last week, the Municipality denied a request made by the government on behalf of local Bohras, who number somewhere between 25,000 to 50,000, to be allocated government land to build a house of worship. The request to build a Bohra place of worship raised a controversy, with Islamists arguing that the request should be denied based on the fact that no Kuwaiti nationals were members of the Bohra sect as well as the fact that residents in Ardiya opposed the building in their area. The unspoken reason for the opposition was more than likely based on the fact that local Muslims do not believe Bohras to be a legitimate sect of Islam. Bohras (which is linguistically traced to the Gujarati word meaning 'to trade') have roots in Gujarat, India where they were converts to Ismaili Shiism. In the eleventh and twelfth centuries, they broke from the branch following the Fatimi Tayyibi dawah of Yemen. They then broke into several offshoots on multiple occasions and came to be known as Aliyah Bohras, Dawoodi Bohras, Jafari Bohras and Sulaymani Bohra among others.
Bohras believe in seven pillars of their religion and not the five pillars of Islam which are mentioned in the Holy Quran. The first and most important of their seven pillars is that of walayah, which is love and devotion for Allah, the Prophets, the Imam, and the da'i.
Sunni Muslims do not believe in the worship of any God but Allah and do not call on followers to devote themselves to anyone but Allah. Sheikh Mohammad said the group has historically brought with it "a lot of movement that has harmed Islam in the past and present". "The Ismailia sect, which Muslim scholars believe is a sect which has strayed, believe in an imam who is without sin," he said. This belief is contrary to the belief of Sunni Muslims that only the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was sinless. "They bel ieve the imam is a descendant of Imam Ismail bin Jaafar," he added.
Notably, the current da'i or leader of the Dawoodi Bohras, Sayyedna Mohammad Burhanuddin, is 52nd in a long line of da'i mutlaqs which can be translated to 'absolute preacher or summoner'. He is revered for his supposed ancestry and position which is contrary to Sunni beliefs, which do not allow religious reverence for anyone but Allah.
Sheikh Mohammad stated that the Bohras believe, "Whomever does not know the Imam of his time will die as a non-believer and non-Muslim." This belief flies in the face of Sunni Muslim beliefs which do not require reverence for imams or any religious heads as a prerequisite for being a Muslim. "They do not pray in Sunni or Shiite mosques (because) either they do not believe we are Muslims or they do not believe these are legal mosques," the cleric said.
Notably, among differences in Islam and Bohra beliefs is their belief in reincarnation. On Bohra beliefs on reincarnation, Sheikh Mohammad said, "If someone is righteous and he dies, Bohras believes his spirit will live on in another person." As to the possibility of Bohra building a place of worship in Kuwait, Sheikh Mohammad summed up the issue stating: "If these are their beliefs, then we should not help them build a temple because this is opposite to Islam and there are fatwas forbidding this." Specif ically, he noted that a fatwa was issued by a religious committee in Saudi Arabia. "Their belief is a mixture of philosophy, interpretations, and Shiite practices," he said. Huzaifa Yusef, a spokesman of the local Bohra community, refused to comment on any of the topics discussed in this article.
From: Kuwait Times | Date: 10/17/2007
Oct. 17--KUWAIT -- Sunni cleric Sheikh Mohammad Al-Hamoud, who is a member of the Jamiyat Ahiya Al-Torath, a local Salafist organization, spoke to Kuwait Times about the Bohra religion and some of the practices which separate it from the mainstream Muslim community.
Last week, the Municipality denied a request made by the government on behalf of local Bohras, who number somewhere between 25,000 to 50,000, to be allocated government land to build a house of worship. The request to build a Bohra place of worship raised a controversy, with Islamists arguing that the request should be denied based on the fact that no Kuwaiti nationals were members of the Bohra sect as well as the fact that residents in Ardiya opposed the building in their area. The unspoken reason for the opposition was more than likely based on the fact that local Muslims do not believe Bohras to be a legitimate sect of Islam. Bohras (which is linguistically traced to the Gujarati word meaning 'to trade') have roots in Gujarat, India where they were converts to Ismaili Shiism. In the eleventh and twelfth centuries, they broke from the branch following the Fatimi Tayyibi dawah of Yemen. They then broke into several offshoots on multiple occasions and came to be known as Aliyah Bohras, Dawoodi Bohras, Jafari Bohras and Sulaymani Bohra among others.
Bohras believe in seven pillars of their religion and not the five pillars of Islam which are mentioned in the Holy Quran. The first and most important of their seven pillars is that of walayah, which is love and devotion for Allah, the Prophets, the Imam, and the da'i.
Sunni Muslims do not believe in the worship of any God but Allah and do not call on followers to devote themselves to anyone but Allah. Sheikh Mohammad said the group has historically brought with it "a lot of movement that has harmed Islam in the past and present". "The Ismailia sect, which Muslim scholars believe is a sect which has strayed, believe in an imam who is without sin," he said. This belief is contrary to the belief of Sunni Muslims that only the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was sinless. "They bel ieve the imam is a descendant of Imam Ismail bin Jaafar," he added.
Notably, the current da'i or leader of the Dawoodi Bohras, Sayyedna Mohammad Burhanuddin, is 52nd in a long line of da'i mutlaqs which can be translated to 'absolute preacher or summoner'. He is revered for his supposed ancestry and position which is contrary to Sunni beliefs, which do not allow religious reverence for anyone but Allah.
Sheikh Mohammad stated that the Bohras believe, "Whomever does not know the Imam of his time will die as a non-believer and non-Muslim." This belief flies in the face of Sunni Muslim beliefs which do not require reverence for imams or any religious heads as a prerequisite for being a Muslim. "They do not pray in Sunni or Shiite mosques (because) either they do not believe we are Muslims or they do not believe these are legal mosques," the cleric said.
Notably, among differences in Islam and Bohra beliefs is their belief in reincarnation. On Bohra beliefs on reincarnation, Sheikh Mohammad said, "If someone is righteous and he dies, Bohras believes his spirit will live on in another person." As to the possibility of Bohra building a place of worship in Kuwait, Sheikh Mohammad summed up the issue stating: "If these are their beliefs, then we should not help them build a temple because this is opposite to Islam and there are fatwas forbidding this." Specif ically, he noted that a fatwa was issued by a religious committee in Saudi Arabia. "Their belief is a mixture of philosophy, interpretations, and Shiite practices," he said. Huzaifa Yusef, a spokesman of the local Bohra community, refused to comment on any of the topics discussed in this article.
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ponga bhori
- Posts: 410
- Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 4:01 am
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
It would be best for the Bhoris should carify their beliefs. Is what the Kuwaitis saying about their beliefs true?
Let the Khotar do their work.
Let the Khotar do their work.
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
Mr. Hozefa,Originally posted by Hozefa:
Bohri masjid . I think we are better with our current Huseniya in Ardiya which fulfills almost our all needs, car is just a minaret and I in Kuwait. I have seen many people(Locals and Foreigners) hating me just because of this Bohri Sticker with me.What are we upto here?? Spreading hatred??
Hozefa Ghadiali
I think you don't still know the meaning of constructing a masjid in a town I think you don't know the difference between Masjid and Markaz.
My dear countryman with the construction of Masjid in Kuwait Khuda will malamaal you and resident with his barakat in all the things, Barakat in rozi will be millions of times which you will feeling it and see it Not only this We are Muslims and we have full rights of having a Masjid and as in Dubai we never stop any one praying in the masjid and they are also invited for the food freely
I am proud of born in Bohra family. so if you feeling like a sticker then we don't need you also and leave our small and happy family and join others then u will feel the reality of the outside.
Gulf
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
those articles were an interesting read as they point out most apprehensions that sunnis muslims have about beliefs of bohras......i do believe though that we bohris have a right to construct a mosque...whether we shud get the benefits which common mosques in the gulf enjoy (being registered under the awqaf commitee) is a different matter.....but as all humans shud have the freedom to practice their religion...so shud we....if their can be shurches in kuwait....then y not a bohra mosque...whether others view us as "true muslims" or not is irrelvant.....
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
Previously posted by Gulf
It is quite clear that with the money extracted from thousands of unsuspecting Bohris used to build masjids all over the world, God has blessed Burhanuddin with millions. Would you care to elaborate why Bohris all over the world are not rich and fat like your Kotharis who have never built anything with their own money?
Oh wait! They are Blessed Among The Lord and reap the benefits of namaaz and roza and ziyaarats all over the world, no doubt paid for with the money of their flock whom they purportedly are bringing closer to God.
Keep doing your puja to them and kiss their feet when you see them, and drink their phuuke loo paani. Thus God will surely reward you with lots of 'barakats' and you too will travel first class and never have to cook another meal again. Next time you're doing purjosh maatam, pray God blesses you with some brains.
Gulf (ever widening),My dear countryman with the construction of Masjid in Kuwait Khuda will malamaal you and resident with his barakat in all the things, Barakat in rozi will be millions of times which you will feeling it and see it
It is quite clear that with the money extracted from thousands of unsuspecting Bohris used to build masjids all over the world, God has blessed Burhanuddin with millions. Would you care to elaborate why Bohris all over the world are not rich and fat like your Kotharis who have never built anything with their own money?
Oh wait! They are Blessed Among The Lord and reap the benefits of namaaz and roza and ziyaarats all over the world, no doubt paid for with the money of their flock whom they purportedly are bringing closer to God.
Keep doing your puja to them and kiss their feet when you see them, and drink their phuuke loo paani. Thus God will surely reward you with lots of 'barakats' and you too will travel first class and never have to cook another meal again. Next time you're doing purjosh maatam, pray God blesses you with some brains.
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Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
the arabs have always looked upon bohras with a mixture of ignorance, suspicion and confusion..what exactly are they, is what they ask. they observe that bohras are never to be found in the general mainstream masjids, they seem to isolate themselves, they allow intermingling of men and women in their masjids, they see them being secretive and they see them deliberately not participating in namaaz with them, when azaan is called..
these are things which many of my arab friends used to tell me openly and they always had a question for me, what sort of muslims are the bohras, can u pls explain? i used to try my best in as diplomatic a way as possible, but could see that they were not fully satisfied or had more questions than when we started.
the sunnis in india, pakistan or far east are far more accomodating or content in accepting bohras. societies and cultures there are so diverse and we fly under the radar. with thousands of hindu sects, muslims of all hue and colour, every religion and language on earth present there, nobody really bothers about the bohras, they are just another intersting and colourful piece in the mosaic.
in dubai, the arabs and the govt are liberal and too busy making money to have ever bothered to find out our religious practices. all they know is that this is a peaceful community of traders and businessmen who keep to themselves, have no political ambitions and are generally law-abiding. bahrain used to be very liberal too, but ever since the shia uprising they have become wary and watch us closely.
kuwait and saudi have always been the most vehement of the wahabis, deeply distrustful of the shia's and tend to be very self-centred in their view of themselves and their brand of islam. bohras have somehow managed to fit in, chief among the reasons being their business acumen and general non-aggressiveness. they are generally looked upon as being good muslims, with their beards, kurtas and topis, women in ridhas..(although they do find them of a strange variety!) the general ignorance of the arabs traditionally and their self-absorption has worked in our favour uptil now. but of late their levels of education, awareness of the rest of the world, better intelligence gathering and maturity has risen considerably.
i dont know how many bohras are aware, (the kothar certainly does) but when the first 'invasion' of arab countries in modern times by bohras took place, in egypt, in 1981 at the time the masjid ul anwar was renovated and syedna went there and encouraged bohras to visit in their thousands, the egyptians were alarmed and perplexed about who we were. there were many questions raised in their highest circles and finally at their behest, the saudis undertook a detailed study on the bohras. their origins, their beliefs and practices, their social customs and traditions, their leadership etc. this was a secret study financed by the saudi dept of islamic affairs and awqaf. the results were later published in their official newsletter " al-muslimoon", of which i managed to get a translated copy.
the report damns the bohras as being a totally non-islamic sect, with outward beliefs which conform to islam, but internally engaging in practices which are uncompletely un-islamic and contrary to the teachings of the prophet and the quran, as outlined above in the kuwaiti news reports. surprisingly, no real action was taken to act on this report, probably money exchanged hands and the report was buried. but copies of the report were of course provided to the egyptian and other arab govts who do know everything in intimate details about the happenings within our community.
if their attitude has been of laissez faire so far, doesnt mean they are fools or ignorant as the common arab on the street maybe. there have been many instances when bohras have suffered in the past though, such as the deportation of the amils from jeddah and mecca in the 90's, the insistence of the saudi's on bohras celebrating eid ul fitr with the rest of the muslims etc.
perhaps the time had come for these issues to come to a head. it will be interesting to see how the wily kothar handles this. they are quite past masters in such matters.. but their political foresight is very weak and no comparison with the Aga Khan and his advisors who carefully analyse and study future political and economic trends in order to steer a smooth course for his community. in our case, our kothar only looks out for itself and let the community go to hell, they can fend for themselves.
if the bohras get into problems, they are just unlucky or plain stupid, but our aqa maula will still pray for us. if they succeed due to their own hard work and inherent brains, (which we have inherited from the gujrati baniys's BTW) it is due to HIS dua and blessings!! to earn his benedictions, u give more and more vajebaat, ziyafats, salaams and so on..either way he is the winner! heads i win, tails u lose...
these are things which many of my arab friends used to tell me openly and they always had a question for me, what sort of muslims are the bohras, can u pls explain? i used to try my best in as diplomatic a way as possible, but could see that they were not fully satisfied or had more questions than when we started.
the sunnis in india, pakistan or far east are far more accomodating or content in accepting bohras. societies and cultures there are so diverse and we fly under the radar. with thousands of hindu sects, muslims of all hue and colour, every religion and language on earth present there, nobody really bothers about the bohras, they are just another intersting and colourful piece in the mosaic.
in dubai, the arabs and the govt are liberal and too busy making money to have ever bothered to find out our religious practices. all they know is that this is a peaceful community of traders and businessmen who keep to themselves, have no political ambitions and are generally law-abiding. bahrain used to be very liberal too, but ever since the shia uprising they have become wary and watch us closely.
kuwait and saudi have always been the most vehement of the wahabis, deeply distrustful of the shia's and tend to be very self-centred in their view of themselves and their brand of islam. bohras have somehow managed to fit in, chief among the reasons being their business acumen and general non-aggressiveness. they are generally looked upon as being good muslims, with their beards, kurtas and topis, women in ridhas..(although they do find them of a strange variety!) the general ignorance of the arabs traditionally and their self-absorption has worked in our favour uptil now. but of late their levels of education, awareness of the rest of the world, better intelligence gathering and maturity has risen considerably.
i dont know how many bohras are aware, (the kothar certainly does) but when the first 'invasion' of arab countries in modern times by bohras took place, in egypt, in 1981 at the time the masjid ul anwar was renovated and syedna went there and encouraged bohras to visit in their thousands, the egyptians were alarmed and perplexed about who we were. there were many questions raised in their highest circles and finally at their behest, the saudis undertook a detailed study on the bohras. their origins, their beliefs and practices, their social customs and traditions, their leadership etc. this was a secret study financed by the saudi dept of islamic affairs and awqaf. the results were later published in their official newsletter " al-muslimoon", of which i managed to get a translated copy.
the report damns the bohras as being a totally non-islamic sect, with outward beliefs which conform to islam, but internally engaging in practices which are uncompletely un-islamic and contrary to the teachings of the prophet and the quran, as outlined above in the kuwaiti news reports. surprisingly, no real action was taken to act on this report, probably money exchanged hands and the report was buried. but copies of the report were of course provided to the egyptian and other arab govts who do know everything in intimate details about the happenings within our community.
if their attitude has been of laissez faire so far, doesnt mean they are fools or ignorant as the common arab on the street maybe. there have been many instances when bohras have suffered in the past though, such as the deportation of the amils from jeddah and mecca in the 90's, the insistence of the saudi's on bohras celebrating eid ul fitr with the rest of the muslims etc.
perhaps the time had come for these issues to come to a head. it will be interesting to see how the wily kothar handles this. they are quite past masters in such matters.. but their political foresight is very weak and no comparison with the Aga Khan and his advisors who carefully analyse and study future political and economic trends in order to steer a smooth course for his community. in our case, our kothar only looks out for itself and let the community go to hell, they can fend for themselves.
if the bohras get into problems, they are just unlucky or plain stupid, but our aqa maula will still pray for us. if they succeed due to their own hard work and inherent brains, (which we have inherited from the gujrati baniys's BTW) it is due to HIS dua and blessings!! to earn his benedictions, u give more and more vajebaat, ziyafats, salaams and so on..either way he is the winner! heads i win, tails u lose...
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
i agree with zulfiqar's observations regarding the general arab view towards bohras....i guess the kothar has been working very hard to make an outward appearance of bohras being pious muslims like keeping beards...wearing white dress (which is similar to the arab dress) etc.....i heard once that the syedna wasnt invited to sme islamic conference....basically becuz bohras were not considered muslims as per the organisers...n that really pissed him off.....n since then he has been making a lotta effort to make bohras follow the sunnat of the prophet atleast outwardly n raise his status in the islamic community....i m not sure abt this....maybe someone cud shed more light on the this.......
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
50 lawyers threaten to sue minister Al-Sarraf; Bohra mosque issue takes new turn
KUWAIT CITY: The controversy over the Bohra mosque took a new turn with 50 lawyers threatening to sue Minister of State for Municipal Affairs Mussa Al-Sarraf, if he tried to get the proposal approved, say sources. Meanwhile, reliable sources claim that Minister of Awqaf and Islamic Affairs Abdullah Al-Matouq got an official letter sent by the Chairman of the Municipal Council Abdul Rahman Al-Humaidan asking him to withdraw the demand of allotting a site for Bohra mosque. Reportedly, the letter, which was signed by Assistant Undersecretary for Mosques Affairs Waleed Al-Shaeb, ‘begged’ to freeze the matter for the time being until new regulations are framed.
Furthermore, some MPs asked the Municipal Council to reject the proposal altogether and MP Hussein Mezyed warned Al-Sarraf against interfering in council’s decisions. “Al-Sarraf should respect democracy and the results of the voting on the issue, else he will face political interrogation, which could lead to his grilling,” he added.
He asserted that the matter took its natural course and the Technical Committee at the council rejected the proposal on technical grounds. “The minister might put the Municipality in an awkward situation with his interference and why does he insist on opposing the democratic way?” asked Mezyed. From his side, MP Jaber Al-Muhailbi asked the Cabinet to respect the majority’s opinion and reminded that mosques are spread all over the country. On the other hand, spokesman of the Salafist Movement Bader Nasser Al-Shabib said all those supporting the Bohra mosque issue are ‘deplorable’ and demanded that Al-Matouq be grilled for referring the proposal to the Municipal Council, reports Al-Watan daily.
Speaking on the issue, Municipal Council member Zaid Al-Azmi said all the noise over the issue is aimed at destroying Kuwait’s transparency and love for others. Indicating that the refusal was made both on technical and patriotic grounds, Al-Azmi said, “the proposed site is in an industrial zone and the mosque will cause disturbance if Bohra community keeps entering and leaving the area everyday.”
From his side, another council member Majed Al-Mussa asked Al-Matouq to cancel the demand and hailed council members for resisting all external pressures and rejecting the proposal. Al-Sarraf will meet chairman and members of the council Sunday to discuss all matters concerning the Municipality and the council.
By Ayad Al-Enezi, Abdul Nasser Al-Aslami and Jaber Al-Hammod
Special to the Arab Times
KUWAIT CITY: The controversy over the Bohra mosque took a new turn with 50 lawyers threatening to sue Minister of State for Municipal Affairs Mussa Al-Sarraf, if he tried to get the proposal approved, say sources. Meanwhile, reliable sources claim that Minister of Awqaf and Islamic Affairs Abdullah Al-Matouq got an official letter sent by the Chairman of the Municipal Council Abdul Rahman Al-Humaidan asking him to withdraw the demand of allotting a site for Bohra mosque. Reportedly, the letter, which was signed by Assistant Undersecretary for Mosques Affairs Waleed Al-Shaeb, ‘begged’ to freeze the matter for the time being until new regulations are framed.
Furthermore, some MPs asked the Municipal Council to reject the proposal altogether and MP Hussein Mezyed warned Al-Sarraf against interfering in council’s decisions. “Al-Sarraf should respect democracy and the results of the voting on the issue, else he will face political interrogation, which could lead to his grilling,” he added.
He asserted that the matter took its natural course and the Technical Committee at the council rejected the proposal on technical grounds. “The minister might put the Municipality in an awkward situation with his interference and why does he insist on opposing the democratic way?” asked Mezyed. From his side, MP Jaber Al-Muhailbi asked the Cabinet to respect the majority’s opinion and reminded that mosques are spread all over the country. On the other hand, spokesman of the Salafist Movement Bader Nasser Al-Shabib said all those supporting the Bohra mosque issue are ‘deplorable’ and demanded that Al-Matouq be grilled for referring the proposal to the Municipal Council, reports Al-Watan daily.
Speaking on the issue, Municipal Council member Zaid Al-Azmi said all the noise over the issue is aimed at destroying Kuwait’s transparency and love for others. Indicating that the refusal was made both on technical and patriotic grounds, Al-Azmi said, “the proposed site is in an industrial zone and the mosque will cause disturbance if Bohra community keeps entering and leaving the area everyday.”
From his side, another council member Majed Al-Mussa asked Al-Matouq to cancel the demand and hailed council members for resisting all external pressures and rejecting the proposal. Al-Sarraf will meet chairman and members of the council Sunday to discuss all matters concerning the Municipality and the council.
By Ayad Al-Enezi, Abdul Nasser Al-Aslami and Jaber Al-Hammod
Special to the Arab Times
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accountability
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Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
"I am proud of born in Bohra family. so if you feeling like a sticker then we don't need you also and leave our small and happy family and join others then u will feel the reality of the outside."
Gulf: who are you to ask anyone to leave or remain in the religion. Religion is not owned by anyone, and one single person can not claim the ownership.
Gulf: who are you to ask anyone to leave or remain in the religion. Religion is not owned by anyone, and one single person can not claim the ownership.
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
Huzefa is a bohra you are not. Sorry to break your myth.Originally posted by Gulf:
I am proud of born in Bohra family.
Gulf
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
Shut up! tahir and read this..
KUWAIT: Member of the municipal council Fawziya Al-Bahar expressed her regret over statements made by some MPs on the construction of a Bohra mosque in Ardiya. She indicated that the issue of the mosque's construction was finalized after voting in council and that there was no need to discuss and escalate the issue any further. She said she was sorry to read what was published in the newspapers about the issue and added that everyone knew that Bohra Muslims are Shiites and that there are a lot of mosques 'Hussainiyas' for Shiites in Kuwait as there are a lot of mosques for Sunnis too. She also said that the municipal council announced that they would discuss and finalize the issue of the mosque next Monday.
*****Insha'Allah Khair with duwa mubarak of Aqa Moula*****
KUWAIT: Member of the municipal council Fawziya Al-Bahar expressed her regret over statements made by some MPs on the construction of a Bohra mosque in Ardiya. She indicated that the issue of the mosque's construction was finalized after voting in council and that there was no need to discuss and escalate the issue any further. She said she was sorry to read what was published in the newspapers about the issue and added that everyone knew that Bohra Muslims are Shiites and that there are a lot of mosques 'Hussainiyas' for Shiites in Kuwait as there are a lot of mosques for Sunnis too. She also said that the municipal council announced that they would discuss and finalize the issue of the mosque next Monday.
*****Insha'Allah Khair with duwa mubarak of Aqa Moula*****
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
Sweetie Gulf
You quoted the following: In the first part it is said it is fianlized and the last sentence says that it they would discuss and finalize the issue next Monday
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
She indicated that the issue of the mosque's construction was finalized after voting in council and that there was no need to discuss and escalate the issue any further……………………….She also said that the municipal council announced that they would discuss and finalize the issue of the mosque next Monday
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
SO WHICH IS TRUE THE FINALIZE OR TO BE FINALIZED
You quoted the following: In the first part it is said it is fianlized and the last sentence says that it they would discuss and finalize the issue next Monday
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
She indicated that the issue of the mosque's construction was finalized after voting in council and that there was no need to discuss and escalate the issue any further……………………….She also said that the municipal council announced that they would discuss and finalize the issue of the mosque next Monday
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
SO WHICH IS TRUE THE FINALIZE OR TO BE FINALIZED
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
From Arabtimes
Report
Meanwhile, Secretary General of Thawabit Al-Ummah group Mohammed Hayef Al-Mutairi has issued a report claiming that the Bohra sect is not an Islamic sect. The report included comments of Shiite clerics and the names of references and said “there is a consensus among religious scholars that there is no doubt about the infidelity of Bohras.”
Report
Meanwhile, Secretary General of Thawabit Al-Ummah group Mohammed Hayef Al-Mutairi has issued a report claiming that the Bohra sect is not an Islamic sect. The report included comments of Shiite clerics and the names of references and said “there is a consensus among religious scholars that there is no doubt about the infidelity of Bohras.”
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
Sorry but copy pasting a piece from a newspaper doesn't prove you are a bohra.Originally posted by Gulf:
Shut up! tahir and read this..
KUWAIT: Member of the municipal council Fawziya Al-Bahar expressed her regret over statements made by some
*****Insha'Allah Khair with duwa mubarak of Aqa Moula*****
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
Gulf if you truly believed and knew in your heart that your Aqa Moula was genuine and really deserving of wondrous praise for his marvels, you wouldn't have felt the urge to post the long and irrelevant "marvels" of his life. Obviously you feel the need to defend him in some way.
I suggest that you look inside and decide if you yourself even believe the drivel passed down to you from the golden and namaazi sujni-covered takht.
Chances are that your faith and belief in this corrupt system has long since waned, and you're just trying to convince only yourself that it's still all good.
I suggest that you look inside and decide if you yourself even believe the drivel passed down to you from the golden and namaazi sujni-covered takht.
Chances are that your faith and belief in this corrupt system has long since waned, and you're just trying to convince only yourself that it's still all good.
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
U GUYS ARE FOOLS N IDIOTS WHAT R U TRYING TO JUSTIFY HERE BY POSTING THIS ISSUES N NAGGING I HAVE FEW QUESTIONS PLS ANSWER YRSELF THEN TO ME
DO U CLAIM TO BE A DAWOODI BOHRA OR NOT?
DO U FEEL ITS RIGHT TO MAKE A MOSQUE?
Y R U GUYS THEN FIGHTING IN UDAIPUR FOR A MOSQUE?
TILL FEW YRS BACK YOU ALL STARTED SAYING BAD THINGS ABOUT AAMILS N SYEDNA S FAMILY.
THEN YOU ALL STARTED SAYING BAD THINGS ABOUT SYEDNA (TUS)HIMSELF.
NOW WHEN A NON BOHRA PEOPLE HAVE PROBLEM WITH THE BOHRA'S YOU GUYS START JOINING THEM AND START SAYING BAD ABOUT YR OWN COMMUNITY.
SO JUST THINK FOR WHILE WHAT IS YR MOTIVE IN DOING ALL THIS JUST REVENGE WITHOUT ANY AIMS
DO U CLAIM TO BE A DAWOODI BOHRA OR NOT?
DO U FEEL ITS RIGHT TO MAKE A MOSQUE?
Y R U GUYS THEN FIGHTING IN UDAIPUR FOR A MOSQUE?
TILL FEW YRS BACK YOU ALL STARTED SAYING BAD THINGS ABOUT AAMILS N SYEDNA S FAMILY.
THEN YOU ALL STARTED SAYING BAD THINGS ABOUT SYEDNA (TUS)HIMSELF.
NOW WHEN A NON BOHRA PEOPLE HAVE PROBLEM WITH THE BOHRA'S YOU GUYS START JOINING THEM AND START SAYING BAD ABOUT YR OWN COMMUNITY.
SO JUST THINK FOR WHILE WHAT IS YR MOTIVE IN DOING ALL THIS JUST REVENGE WITHOUT ANY AIMS
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ponga bhori
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Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
Raaz,
Before anything else please stop shouting.
No need to get excited.
Before anything else please stop shouting.
No need to get excited.
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
I need to do that because i think this whole forum is filled with double standard people who themself dont know where lead and trying to lead others
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
raaz,
i think the mistake ur making is assuming that everyone on this forum share the same view.....there r a range of views shared by the participants on this forum n i guess they have a right to differ with each other.....dont try to generalise the views on this forum n assume that to be the "reformist" view.....
i agree with u that its wrong on the part of the kuwaitis to create so much hassle over bohras havin their place of worship....we hav our own beliefs n viewpoints n they shud respect that.....
but a question we bohras shud ask ourselves is how open minded we are......???? we dont eat food cooked by hindus....like to stick together within ourselves......insult in public with abusive language individuals who are revered by other muslims.....etc.....i guess if we were openminded ourselves v cud expect the same frm others.....
i think the mistake ur making is assuming that everyone on this forum share the same view.....there r a range of views shared by the participants on this forum n i guess they have a right to differ with each other.....dont try to generalise the views on this forum n assume that to be the "reformist" view.....
i agree with u that its wrong on the part of the kuwaitis to create so much hassle over bohras havin their place of worship....we hav our own beliefs n viewpoints n they shud respect that.....
but a question we bohras shud ask ourselves is how open minded we are......???? we dont eat food cooked by hindus....like to stick together within ourselves......insult in public with abusive language individuals who are revered by other muslims.....etc.....i guess if we were openminded ourselves v cud expect the same frm others.....
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
You too are apparantly a non bohra but 'we' are not joining you. Btw, what is your definition of a bohra?Originally posted by RAAZ:
NOW WHEN A NON BOHRA PEOPLE HAVE PROBLEM WITH THE BOHRA'S YOU GUYS START JOINING THEM AND START SAYING BAD ABOUT YR OWN COMMUNITY.
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ponga bhori
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Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
"TILL FEW YRS BACK YOU ALL STARTED SAYING BAD THINGS ABOUT AAMILS N SYEDNA S FAMILY.
THEN YOU ALL STARTED SAYING BAD THINGS ABOUT SYEDNA (TUS)HIMSELF."
Then it was said that syedna is masoom and the surrounding him people were corrupt etc, to be blamed. Now the Bhoris have realised that is not true.So they started with him too.
But the fact remains that Bhoris are Bhoris and it was for this very reason that they are voiceing the wrong that is being going on in their beliefs. Nothing to be so upset about. It is only natural.
THEN YOU ALL STARTED SAYING BAD THINGS ABOUT SYEDNA (TUS)HIMSELF."
Then it was said that syedna is masoom and the surrounding him people were corrupt etc, to be blamed. Now the Bhoris have realised that is not true.So they started with him too.
But the fact remains that Bhoris are Bhoris and it was for this very reason that they are voiceing the wrong that is being going on in their beliefs. Nothing to be so upset about. It is only natural.
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ponga bhori
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Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
"WHAT IS YR MOTIVE IN DOING ALL THIS JUST REVENGE WITHOUT ANY AIMS"
Revenge is certainly not the aim.
Aims are to bring Dawooi-Bhora religion back to where it was: Islamic.
To stop the collection of moneys in the name of Allah (religion) for personal gains.
To stop exploiting the people and lead the "SHEEP" out of the jaws of the hungry "Lions"
And many more aims, look up the site for more information, and may be the Reformist Leaders can tell you more.
Revenge is certainly not the aim.
Aims are to bring Dawooi-Bhora religion back to where it was: Islamic.
To stop the collection of moneys in the name of Allah (religion) for personal gains.
To stop exploiting the people and lead the "SHEEP" out of the jaws of the hungry "Lions"
And many more aims, look up the site for more information, and may be the Reformist Leaders can tell you more.
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ponga bhori
- Posts: 410
- Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 4:01 am
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
"NOW WHEN A NON BOHRA PEOPLE HAVE PROBLEM WITH THE BOHRA'S YOU GUYS START JOINING THEM AND START SAYING BAD ABOUT YR OWN COMMUNITY"
They are desperately asking for help from all quaters. What else can a oppressed person do but turn outwards for help. It is only natural.
They are desperately asking for help from all quaters. What else can a oppressed person do but turn outwards for help. It is only natural.
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ponga bhori
- Posts: 410
- Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 4:01 am
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
Raaz,
Finally: "U GUYS ARE FOOLS N IDIOTS"
You saying so does not make that.
We are not, but you sure have made a fool of yourself and made out to be an idiot.
Finally: "U GUYS ARE FOOLS N IDIOTS"
You saying so does not make that.
We are not, but you sure have made a fool of yourself and made out to be an idiot.
Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
Pongabora (may be other version of biyatch omabharti),
Listen....
We dawoodi bohras are not, but you and your progressive jamaat sure have made a fool of yourselves and made out to be idiots.
idiots
Listen....
We dawoodi bohras are not, but you and your progressive jamaat sure have made a fool of yourselves and made out to be idiots.
idiots
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ponga bhori
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Re: Bohra Masjiid issue In Kuwait
Gulf,
Where have I said that Dawoodi Bohras are fools.??
I have just quoted Raaz (
Where have I said that Dawoodi Bohras are fools.??
I have just quoted Raaz (