Why do Ismailies take pride in calling themselves muslim

[Aarif]

Dear Ismaili Friends,

Please treat this question as one out of healthy curiosity. The other day Br. MF had posted a very good article on Ismailies and their beliefs. In that article the Ismailies do not follow the compulsory five pillars of Islam as mentioned in Quran and the way they are followed by other muslims. However they are part of Islam followers and take pride in doing so. My question is what is their community belief about Islam? What do they like the most about Islam which binds them to the religion inspite of lot of differences in following the same???

It would be really nice if our Ismaily friends can share their community beliefs and passion for the religion of Islam...

[Danish]

Originally posted by Aareef:
the compulsory five pillars of Islam as mentioned in Quran

I'd like to witness these alleged "pillars" claimed to be mentioned in the Quran?

[porus]

It would be more accurate to call these "Pillars", "Rituals of Islam".

Quran does not mention them as being "Pillars of Islam" But it does mention the "Pillars of Everlasting Fire" (104:8)

[Aarif]

Danish,

Please do not bother yourself with that. You are neither an Ismaily nor a muslim... Continue enjoying bacon and crabs in the month of ramzaan. To each his own.

[anajmi]

Quran does not mention them as being "Pillars of Islam"

You need to find the right teacher of Taawil and Baatin. Only he can tell you the secret.

it does mention the "Pillars of Everlasting Fire" (104:8)

Danish,

You will get to witness these pillars. Just have patience.

[Muslim First]

All five pillars are mentioned in Qur'an.

They are popularly known as Pillars but actually they are 5 Basic Duties of Islam

All 5 are referenced in Qur'an. I will refer to Ayas if needed.

Prophet SAW said: Islam is based on 5 things: declaring that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, the establishment of Salah, the payment of Zakah, the Hajj and Sawm in the month of Ramadhan. (Bukhari)

[Muslim First]

Areef

AS

Lots of luck in getting straight answer.

[Muslim First]

In Arabic

"Buniyal Islamu ala khamsin; Shahadati 'an la ilaha illal lahu wa anna Muhammadar rasulul lahi; wa iqamis Salati, wa itaiz Zakati, wl Hajj, wa Sawmi Ramadan." (Bukhari)

(Pardon my transliteration)

[Muslim First]

I believe "Buniyal" is foundation.

Foundations support walls or Pillars.

[porus]

Imam Jaafar al-Sadiq has stated that Islam is based on five pillars.

1. Walaayat
2. Tahaarat
3. Salaat
4. Zakaat
5. Sawm
6. Hajj
7. Jihaad

All the above are mentioned in the Quran, as well as the five 'pillars' bigots keep mentioning. The Wahhabi bigots should understand that no one disputes that these are mentioned in the Quran, only that they are nor called 'pillars' (da'aim) in the Quran.

[porus]

Correction:

Imam Jaafar al-Sadiq has stated that Islam is based on SEVEN pillars.

1. Walaayat
2. Tahaarat
3. Salaat
4. Zakaat
5. Sawm
6. Hajj
7. Jihaad

All the above are mentioned in the Quran, as well as the five 'pillars' the Wahhabi bigots keep mentioning. The Wahhabi bigots should understand that no one disputes that these are mentioned in the Quran, only that they are not called 'pillars' (da'aim) in the Quran.

[anajmi]

only that they are not called 'pillars' (da'aim) in the Quran.

That is because you do not have the right teacher of taawil and baatin.

Imam Jaafar al-Sadiq has stated that Islam is based on SEVEN pillars.

Now imagine some moron going to Imam Jaafar al-Sadiq and telling him that these are not called "pillars" in the quran and where the heck did he get that idea from!!

[Aarif]

1. Walaayat
2. Tahaarat

Br. Porus

Bohras believe in the above two pillers as well. It is really interesting to know that they are mentioned in Quran as well...

[anajmi]

Walaayat and Tahaarat are mentioned in the quran, but unlike the other "pillars", the true meaning of these two can only be understood after you find the right teacher of taawil and baatin.

[Danish]

So what you Arabized religious lot have done is cherry-picked a few words out of a compiled, revamped and garlanded man-made book, titled those words, made pillars out of them and tricked not only their own 'prophet' but the entire world, LOL, ROFL!

Hey, even a child can cherry-pick piggy-wick words out of any book and make "pillars" out of them. Actually, I have my own conveniently cherry-picked Pillars out of the quran above all Islamic Pillars.

But then lets fact it, none of the twisted pillars are compulsory/mandated and as a matter of fact, all of them are invented, nonsensical and manipulated. We can discuss these man-made fanciful pillars one by one.

[Danish]

Originally posted by Muslim First:
All five pillars are mentioned in Qur'an.

Prophet SAW said: Islam is based on 5 things: declaring that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, the establishment of Salah, the payment of Zakah, the Hajj and Sawm in the month of Ramadhan. (Bukhari)

"Buniyal Islamu ala khamsin; Shahadati 'an la ilaha illal lahu wa anna Muhammadar rasulul lahi; wa iqamis Salati, wa itaiz Zakati, wl Hajj, wa Sawmi Ramadan." (Bukhari)

Thanks but no thanks for quoting the Bukhara & Co.'s Quran.

[Africawala0000]

Dear Ismaili Friends,

Please treat this question as one out of healthy curiosity. The other day Br. MF had posted a very good article on Ismailies and their beliefs. In that article the Ismailies do not follow the compulsory five pillars of Islam as mentioned in Quran and the way they are followed by other muslims. However they are part of Islam followers and take pride in doing so. My question is what is their community belief about Islam? What do they like the most about Islam which binds them to the religion inspite of lot of differences in following the same???

It would be really nice if our Ismaily friends can share their community beliefs and passion for the religion of Islam..

Brother Areef,

If you go through the archives you will see I have refuted this MFr's false theories, which you call a good article on Ismailis faith and beliefs. He keeps repeating it thinking there are no Ismailis in this forum who can meet the challenge. However, I would like to know from you, what did you think was "so good" about his article. I haven't seen it and do not care to see it because I have seen it several times on the internet.

What good did you see, or are you one of them too who likes to believe what MFr believes about Ismailis and sells on the internet to ignoramuses? I think you are smarter than these people unless I am wrong.

If MFr says the Ismailis do not follow the five pillars of Islam, you will accept this? You do not have your intellect?

I reverted to this forum to confront this MFr aka Akberally Maherally. It seems he has been dismissed even by his wahabis so he has found to latch on to ignoramuses in this forum, who for some reason harbor malice and contempt for Ismailis.

To answer your question, Ismailis follow 7 pillars of Islam as mandated by Imam Jafar as-Sadiq. The first and foremost pillar is Walaya and then the rest follow. Without Walaya the rest of the 6 are useless.

Walaya: One has to love Imam first in order to follow the Prophet and Allah S.W.T. Imam Jafar as-Sadiq stated that Allah is prayed through us, i.e. Imams. Even the Prophet said so in one of the ahadith. Ask and I'll quote.

Now, I was once a Bohora, so I know bohoras believe this too, so do the Twelvers, so Ismailis are not the only ones who follow this injuction.

Allah S.W.T. has said in the Qur'an to seek a Wasilla. All Shias have sought Wasillas and so have the Ismailis. Wasillas are the Imams. Wasillas are important because they are part of Ahle Bayt and only they can interpret the Qur'an correctly for their followers. (Now watch MFr and PM crawl out of their hell holes and Jamanpasand carrying them on his piggyback).

Ismailis do FAST contrary to what MFr a.k.a. Maherally has been spinning in this and other forums. Intelligent people skip their rhetoric whereas likes of Jamanpasand latch on to it.

In addition to 2.5% Zakah as mandated by the Prophet, Ismailis pay Ushr and some even pay Khums as prescribed (now wait, Potty thinks, it is prescription for his pills, this is how he hijacks the issue) in the Qur'an.

According to the Qur'an this Zakah is to be collected by the Prophet and after him the Commander of the Faithful and part of it to be retained by the Imam and the rest is distributed among the orphans, widows, poor, weak etc. This is all in the Qur'an, and if you want to know the Suras and Ayahs please let me know.

This Zakah is used to build schools, hospitals, universities, parks, habitat, hydrodams, Islamic museums, etc. by our Imam in the Third World countries. In the West he endows Universities to teach Islam and Islamic Architecture. The correct form of Islam and not the kind they have been teaching at present because it is misleading. (This is part of Karzehasana, because Allah S.W.T. wants money distributed to the enemies of Islam so they do not harass Muslims. Our Imam gives money to these Universities, e.g. Harvard, MIT, University of California to teach Islam and Islamic Architecture.

I do not know where you are from. Wherever you are from, go to www.akdn.org and then type in your country and you will see what projects are supported by Aga Khan. All his projects are also supported by United Nations, World Bank, Bill Gates, EU, Canadian, U.S.A., UK, Japan, etc.

Now, as you have seen Jamanpasand calls this "Ali Baba..." this is how the jahaliyas think. As I have said before the Jahaliyas of Ta'if stoned the Prophet so what can I expect from the likes of these 3?

Now tell me truthfully do you know any religious leader who does this for the poor people? Or do you know any government does this for so many countries? I challenge you to find me one religious from the 1.258B most of whom are sitting on Black Gold and making billions and yet their masses are ignorant.

However, the 15 million Ismailis are doing what the 1.258 billions are not doing.

To continue: Hajj : Up until the present Imam, Ismailis were very poor and they could not afford to go on Hajj. Late Imam concentrated much on education and alleviating poverty, which he succeeded well. Mashallah, Ismailis are no longer poor and nowadays they go on Hajj. Hajj is not compulsory but is good if it can be performed. However, according to ahadith one cannot go on Hajj if any member of the family is in debt and in one article I read that you cannot perform Hajj even if your neighbour is in debt. Those who can fulfill these obligations, good luck to them but I doubt many people can do so.

I know my friends of different denominations who buy tickets on Credit Card to go for Hajj. To each his own.
B]Prayers:[/B] LIKES OF MFR ET AL, INSIST THAT Ismailis do not pray 5 times a day. I have proved to these ignoramuses by quoting Bukhari that the Prophet had said that the Asr prayer is not compulsory
However, our Imam tells us to submit to Allah S.W.T. throughout the day at every opportunity we have a free moment and this is also in the Qur'an. It is a small ayah so I can quote here:

LXXIII, 7, 8 True there is for thee by day prolonged occupation with ordinary duties;
But keep in rememberance the name of thy Lord and devote thyself to Him whole-heartedly.

But MFr will not tell you that Ismailis are required to submit to Allah throughout the day. He will only say they do not pray 5 times a day.

Besides the above Sura, we pray early morning, Fajr, Maghrib and Isha. Before Fajr prayer, we perform 1 hour Ibada and before Ibada we do recite ginans and tasbihs for an hour. So for an Ismaili remembrance of Allah S.W.T. starts at 3 a.m.

Tahara: This is cleanliness of body and mind and your nafs before rememberance of God. Cleanliness of your nafs is very important.

In conclusion, Aga Khan has been defending Islam and right after 9/11 he spoke with CNN, and CBC and told them outright that what Bush had said about Axis of Evil was wrong.

On the eve of the Baghdad raid, Aga Khan went to 10 Downing Street in London and White House and plead with both the presidents to not go to war with Iraq and he predicted that the results will be bad.

In fact, Saudis and Jordanians even offered U.S. planes to refuel on their soils!

Judge for yourself who is passion for Islam!

I hope I have answered your questions. I sincerely hope you read this.

Africawala

[salim]

Dear Aareef Bro,

I am a ismaili and I do follow 5 pillars of his sect. Though for us Islam is way more than 5 pillars. Islam is way of life. The article posted by MF is false and wrong. He should stop lying atleast in this month of Ramadan. May be - being honest is not the pillar of his sect so he can lie in the month of Ramadan. While 5 pillar of his sect of islam are good they are not the fundamentals of Islam. Neither they are necessity to be a Muslim.

Now don't take me wrong, I am not saying 5 pillars of his sect of Islam is useless. They are good but definitely not the fundamentals of Islam.

Here is the links to 12ers website that talks about fundamentals of Islam.

http://www.shia.org/fundamental.html

This can be regarded as fundamentals of Islam and it makes more sense. I think even limited Islam to this is not good.

[salim]

You can go and google fundamentals of islam
http://www.google.com/search?q=fundamen ... IN254CA255

[Muslim First]

Br. Areef

AS

I am following the posts on this forum. Let me knw if you got answer to your quest about Ismaili religion.

I am sure you know all about their religion just by looking at photograph of MHI and Mufti!!!!

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by Muslim First:
Br. Areef

AS

I am following the posts on this forum. Let me knw if you got answer to your quest about Ismaili religion.

I am sure you know all about their religion just by looking at photograph of MHI and Mufti!!!!

Your Roza for today is also invalid, O'fat pedophile mullah!!

[turbocanuck]

Originally posted by Aareef:
Dear Ismaili Friends,

Please treat this question as one out of healthy curiosity. The other day Br. MF had posted a very good article on Ismailies and their beliefs. In that article the Ismailies do not follow the compulsory five pillars of Islam as mentioned in Quran and the way they are followed by other muslims. However they are part of Islam followers and take pride in doing so. My question is what is their community belief about Islam? What do they like the most about Islam which binds them to the religion inspite of lot of differences in following the same???

It would be really nice if our Ismaily friends can share their community beliefs and passion for the religion of Islam...

compassion, love, kindness,pluralism, tolerance, fairplay, generosity and respect.........isnt that what islam is all about?

[Aarif]

Dear Friends,

Thanks a lot for posting on this thread. I think Br. Africawalla has made an effort to cover the seven pillers.

Here are a few questions based on that:

Prayers: LIKES OF MFR ET AL, INSIST

Does this mean that Ismailies pray namaz as other muslims? Because it is not clear from this line.

Br. Africawalla,

This was your post after reading the article posted by Br. MF on Ismailism.

Africawalla: I can confirm that is the way Ismailism is practiced. Any questions?
I have a problem with couple of sentences, nothing major.

Now you are saying something exactly opposite of that in this thread that:

Africawalla: However, I would like to know from you, what did you think was "so good" about his article. I haven't seen it and do not care to see it because I have seen it several times on the internet. What good did you see, or are you one of them too who likes to believe what MFr believes about Ismailis and sells on the internet to ignoramuses?

So I am confused. Please pick up one stand on that article otherwise people like me who want to know more about Ismailism might get mislead if you will change your opinion from post to post.

Now a few more questions:
1) Do Ismailies have mosques like other muslims?
2) Do Ismailies follow the moon concept for keeping fast unlike bohras or follow the misri calender like bohras for doing the same??
3) Do Ismailies read Quran as the main book or they refer to other literature for knowledge on Islam?

compassion, love, kindness,pluralism, tolerance, fairplay, generosity and respect.........isnt that what islam is all about?

Br. Turbo,

If you closely observe than every religion preaches what you have mentioned above. Hence, Islam is not an exception. However, my question was on how you follow the religion. E.g. Christians read bible and act accordingly, muslims read Quran and act accordingly. E.g. Hindus follow Ramayana and Mahabharata... Every religion has its unique identification and you need to have that in-order to be part of that religion. Hope you got the point..

[Aarif]

While 5 pillar of his sect of islam are good they are not the fundamentals of Islam. Neither they are necessity to be a Muslim.

Br. Salim,

Can you prove this in light of holy Quran? Because if you do that, than it will change some of my basic understandings about Islam...

[porus]

Necessary, but not sufficient.

[Aarif]

Necessary, but not sufficient.

I would agree to that..

[Danish]

The biggest Pillar of them all:

2:177 ~ Righteousness is not by directing/focusing (qibla) towards the East and the West. Righteous are those who believe in "The God", the hereafter, the universal forces (malaAika), the book and the prophets; and they give their money cheerfully to the relatives and the orphans and the needy and those on the right path and those who appeal and those who are vigilant; and they uphold their obligations/commitments (Salat) and purify themselves (Zakat), and they fulfill their promises whenever they make a promise, and they steadfastly persevere in the times of adversity and hardship and calamity. These are the truthful and these are the righteous.

In spite of the first sentence in the above verse, the Arabized Muslims direct their faces and bow and prostrate towards the East where their biggest "pillars" (the God and the Devil) reside and without which the Arabized Islam will cease to exist.

[anajmi]

Necessary, but not sufficient.

That is why they are the "pillars" of Islam and not Islam itself!!

[Aarif]

Before Fajr prayer, we perform 1 hour Ibada and before Ibada we do recite ginans and tasbihs for an hour.

Can you please tell us what is Ginans and what is Ibada? I guess tasbih is a string of beads and with each bead you recite the name of Allah or Mohammed or other ahle baits...

[Muslim First]

Br. Areef
AS

When you cut and paste from certain Ismailis please delete or correct it. J.K.