IDDATT

[SBM]

In Islam (main stream whether Sunni or Shia) a woman of marriageable age has an Iddat of 3.5 months which requires her not to marry but in Bohras, a woman regardless of her age is put in isolation.
My question, does not this fall in the category of false imprisonment and torture. Why a woman who just lost her husband and grieving is isolated and punished. Can this be referred to Women's Right Groups in India or elsewhere (Non Muslim Countries) for torture and human rights violations.
In India Atty Setalvad might be a good source to refer this case to
Before I dig deeper into this. let me hear from other members on this Board regarding this act
I THINK IDDAT IN BOHRAS IS EQUIVALENT TO SAATI IN HINDUS.

[mutmaeen]

bro oma

equating iddat to sati is like comparing obama to osama.iddat in islam for the lwoman who loses her husband is not without reason.the married woman maybe pregnant when she loses her husband as such she cannot marry another man tilll she delivers.therefore till she delivers or till such time that its apparent that she is not pregnant she can not remarry.a woman may deliberately conceal the fact that she is pregnant and so a lapse of 4.25 months is prescribed so as she cant conceal her pregnancy willfully.

in south indian sunni comunities the women are prohibited from just remarrying till 4.25 months-they arent confined to a secluded spot in their homes.they are free to move about and carry on their daily routine.

[SBM]

Mutmaeen
I did not equate Iddat to Sati but I equated BOHRA IDDATT to SATI
Big difference in Bohra Iddat as to the rest of Muslim community IDDAT

[mutmaeen]

it still is a compaison of apples and oranges-the bohra widow is secluded for 4.25 months after which she is free to re marry but a penchant to condemn and see ill in whatever is bohra distorts the view of the bigots.when your prisms are obscured thats bound to happen

[SBM]

it still is a compaison of apples and oranges-the bohra widow is secluded for 4.25 months after which she is free to re marry but a penchant to condemn and see ill in whatever is bohra distorts the view of the bigots.when your prisms are obscured thats bound to happen

But explain the reason why is she secluded specially a 70 year old widow who is not allowed to receive telephone calls, not allowed to look in the mirror and not allowed to talk to non mehrem men. In countries like USA and Europe where the family may not have extended support from other family members, how is a woman who has young children is supposed to take care of them.
MUTMAEEN, I AM ASKING FOR LOGIC BEHIND THIS ISOLATION. HAVE YOU EVER TRIED TO ISOLATE YOURSELF IN A SMALL ROOM WITHOUT YOUR MOBILE, TV AND OTHER WORLDLY ACTIVITIES AND THEN LET ME KNOW HOW YOU FEEL? I TRIED AND COULD NOT TAKE AFTER 24 HOURS?

[TBG]

I agree with omabharti,

The bohras iddat is very different from a normal iddat. islam has not said that the window cannot even look at a non mehram and cannot even hear their voices. So if on teh last day of the iddat for whatever reasons a window sees a non mehram she has to do the whoel thing again. How does that make sense and how is it logical and islamic? Its actually ridiculous. Basically even if she is dying she cannot goto the hospital as she would have to hold the iddat period again.
The purpose of the iddat in islam is totally different from what bohras practice unfortunately.

[mutmaeen]

bro oma

an iddatised widow can speak to and see the mehremdar mards in her family and all the ladies in the world so she is not isolated as u portray.when shariat was laid down there were no mobiles and tv -why our grandparents did very well without these gadgets so there is no reason why a woman cannot dispense with it for 4.25 months

a woman who has no mehramdar mard can put on her burqa and shop for essentials by pointing to them with a stick or some long object

as for she not hearing a non mehramdars voice its a fallacy-she can hear she cant be heard-rasulallah[saw] talked to umme salamah when she was in iddat from the other side of a curtain-the prophet spoke as umme salamah heard-now if rasulallah[saw[] has prescribed something u cant pick holes in it]

tell me mr oma and tbg is the iddat by progressives any different?

[Maqbool]

If Oma is comparing Iddat with Sati, there is nothing wrong. This method is as evil as sati. To check pregnancy in this age is not that difficult. To keep women in isolation for 4.5 months is torturing and must be stopped immediately.

[Hussain_KSA]

bro oma

tell me mr oma and tbg is the iddat by progressives any different?

Yes! Progressive widows don't keep photo of Aqua Moula while in period of Iddat.

[mutmaeen]

hussain bhai

u can verify thiswith ur mainstream brethren-but the dawoodi bohra widow in iddat cannnot see the photo of syedna-its either removed from her room or covered

[SBM]

a woman who has no mehramdar mard can put on her burqa and shop for essentials by pointing to them with a stick or some long object

Mutmaeen
Can you explain that to me. In the same post you mentioned that an iddatised woman is not supposed to see Non Mehramdar Mard but you quoted that she can put Burqa and shop for essential,Is that means she can go out in Bhendi Bazar, do the shopping and not see a single Non Mehramdar Marad in the street. Where in the World can you do the shopping without opening your mouth especially in India where every thing is bargained.

[SBM]

Mutameen
A woman in iddat is not supposed to hear the voice of Non Mehramdar Marad. I just had death in my family and my 72 year old mother in law was forced to sit in Iddat and she was told that she cannot speak to me on the phone from USA to India as there might be some background noise from Non Mehramdar
Let be honest, please check your facts
I have told and put in writing that my wife not be forced in Bohra Iddat upon my death and that will be given to my attorney and if anyone forces her, he or his firm will be able to file charges against that Aamil or anyone for Human Rights Violation in USA.

[mutmaeen]

dear oma

i said she cant see gair mehram -yes-but in the rare case that she has no one to sustain her she can put her burqa on and shop-in that case it wud suffice that she isnt seen-and i state catagorically-an iddatised widow cn hear non mehram but she can not be heard-so if u wanted to speak to ur mom in law u can but she cant reply-she has just to listen

as for not letting ur wife go thru the bohra iddat its ur choice-may Allah grant u a long life

[Sajid Zafar]

Bohra iddat is nothing but 4.25 months solitary punishment for none of her crime (imagine she is already gone through an ordeal and broken with the grief & sorrow after her husband's death).

To seclude a women (irrespective of her age and physical condition) for more than 4 months period is just another tyranny. I failed to understand that why religious scholars do not intervene and amend this iddat period when the medical science has gone to a limit where the physical state of women can be easily verified within a certain period (which is much lesser than the current iddat period). If they woman's menses cycle is already stopped, or women is infertile, this is even not required.

If this is the only reason, it shall be changed. After all, Islam has suggested "IJTEHAD” for such issues and issues which did not exist during holy prophet's (pbuh) time.

[ghulam muhammed]

What is even more shocking is that even if a one year old non mehramdar male child enters the woman's room, her iddat is broken and she has to undergo the process all over again.

Quite sometime back a lady in bhendi bazaar area was widowed and it was found that she was 2 months pregnant. Imagine the ordeal that she had to undergo because her iddat period was extended till the date of delivery which was almost 7 months.

Further, the widow's relatives go to the local amil to take 'raza' before she confines herself to iddat. One more example of twisting the religion to suit its leader and strengthen his vice like grip over his followers.

[Fatwa Banker]

My question, does not this fall in the category of false imprisonment and torture. Why a woman who just lost her husband and grieving is isolated and punished. Can this be referred to Women's Right Groups in India or elsewhere (Non Muslim Countries) for torture and human rights violations.

You are going down a slippery slope if you are concerned about prosecuting Bohra violation of women's right, torture or human rights. There are for more egregious and rountine violations of all of the above in "true muslim" societies that you appear to be favoring, so you may be laughed out of court.

[mutmaeen]

well a woman not being educated by wahabis is ok and a bohra iddat is a torture? this is the wahabi bias-and gms claim of takin an amils raza for iddat is a lie-my sister had to sit in iddat and we didnt have to take any raza and most mumineen i kno here have not taken any raza for their relatives who had to sit in iddat

[anajmi]

Who said "a women not being educated by wahhabis is ok"? brother gm is not against education of women. In your zeal to label gm as a wahhabi you have to now resort to lies!! What a pity.

[ghulam muhammed]

gms claim of takin an amils raza for iddat is a lie

Bro Mutmaeen,

Just 6 months back a distant relative of mine staying in bhendi bazaar expired. Before sitting in iddat her wife's relatives went to the local amil and badri mahal to take 'raza'. This is a fact which I can vouch for. Whether you believe it or not is totally your prerogative. Probably in coimbatore things may be different like karde hasanah which you mentioned in some other post.

[mutmaeen]

my aunt who underwent an iddat in sidhpur also was not required to taka raza from the local amil

[Fatwa Banker]

Who said "a women not being educated by wahhabis is ok"? brother gm is not against education of women.

Brother GM, does not have issues with the Talibaan or Wahabis either based on his posts...therefore, ignore selective outrage.

[anajmi]

fart,

Now you are farting more than usual. Go back and read brother gm's post. Besides, there is no point in raising issues that you might have with the wahhabis or the taaliban on this board unless you think its members are either taaliban or wahhabis, which only the average morons and farts think.

[Fatwa Banker]

You are a Wahabi, therefore, the post is relevant

[SBM]

ANJAMI AND FATWA
Could you be kind enough to take your fights on some other forum or do it privetly. Every topic on this forum always gets diverted because two of you make it name calling and personal.
Administration: IT IS HIGH TIME THAT ANY MESSAGE WHICH DIVERTS THE ORIGINAL TOPIC TO NAME CALLING SHOULD NOT BE POSTED OR BE DELETED

[anajmi]

fart,

I am not against education of women. So that makes you a fart or an average moron.

[Fatwa Banker]

OM, You chose to ignore my post addressed to you and on topic. I reviewed my posts on this thread so please highlight the one you are referring to as being personal , engaging in name calling or otherwise diverting from the topic at hand.

[SBM]

Fatwa
When I said PERSONAL. I am trying that the forum becomes a debate between you and Anjami, every topic ends up in Wahabi and Shiaism between you and Anjami
I am not blaming you alone. It refers to everyone when the debate is one on one.
I would appreciate that regardless of differences, it does not serve us in splitting our Ummah any further, I think Western Countries are doing a fantastic job in this regard with the help of ruthless Muslim rulers. We can have difference of opinion, philosophical differences but DO WE REALLY HAVE TO END UP IN CALLING NAMES AND MAKING DEBATE ONE ON ONE.

[anajmi]

oma,

WHY DON'T YOU PEOPLE UNDERSTAND, THAT WITH fart THERE IS NO "OUR UMMAH". HE IS A PART OF THE WESTERN COUNTRIES YOU MENTIONED!!!

[SBM]

Anjami
Again please stop these fart and name calling. Let us rise above these petty arguments.
Like Sir Iqbal Said
Khuda Ek, Quran Ek, Kabba Ek
Kiya khota jo hote Musalmaan Ek

[anajmi]

Oma

the point I am trying to make is that fart is not a musalmaan.