Collateral Murder..US Military Killing innocent civilians

[ghulam muhammed]

COLLATERAL MURDER.

WikiLeaks has released a classified US military video depicting the indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people in the Iraqi suburb of New Baghdad -- including two Reuters news staff. Reuters has been trying to obtain the video through the Freedom of Information Act, without success since the time of the attack. The video, shot from an Apache helicopter gun-site, clearly shows the unprovoked slaying of a wounded Reuters employee and his rescuers. Two young children involved in the rescue were also seriously wounded. For further information please visit the special project website http://www.collateralmurder.com/

Please click and watch. You have never seen like this before. After initial commentary, main 15-minute video begins. You may fast-forward a little bit

http://wikileaks.org/

[ozmujaheed]

GM the moral of the story is that Western liberties have allowed wikileaks to bing the issue to public domain and the government has taken a wacking for it, no body from wikileaks has bee threatened, no one has disappeared or killed !

The Muslim or Developing nations do not have similar freedom to discuss, imagine if similar incidents ever happened in their own ares such as Kashmir, Pakistan, Gujarat, Middle East dictatorships, Iran, Africa

[anajmi]

oz,

Hopefully, you are not suggesting that it is ok to kill innocents as long as you keep leaking information about the killings to wikileaks!!

[ozmujaheed]

Innocent people die in all major wars , that is what is war whether by Americans, British, Indians or Arabs.

Difference is Westerners are open to discussing and disclosing the innocent deaths !

[Al Zulfiqar]

oz, this thread too has got nothing to do with bohras (as you have complained in another thread) and as such you should have an issue with it. yet i see you participating in it gladly?

the conclusion? you definitely have hidden issues with ismailies, where the mention of just their name gives you allergies...

[anajmi]

oz,

So westerners are better killers of innocents than others are? The discussion wasn't about who is more open about their murders. The discussion was about innocents that were murdered. As Al Z properly pointed out, you have your wiring mixed up.

[Fatwa Banker]

If you run over a pedestrian by accident is it the same as pulling up next to him, blowing his brains out, and then dragging his body behind your car for everyone to see ?

[anajmi]

Well, if you are running over pedestrians at the rate the westerners do, someone should suspend their driving license.

Besides, according to oz, his entire point was based upon the fact that other countries hide the murder of their innocents and the west does not, so if anything, it seems that it is the west that is dragging the bodies behind the car for everyone to see!!

[Fatwa Banker]

That's twisted logic.... all deaths of innocents are tragic, however, it's disingenuous to not differentiate between those who actually target innocent civilians. Until that differentiation is made by Muslims, violence , terrorism and brutality will continue to be the Islamic modus operandi.

[anajmi]

If you are responsible for millions of innocent deaths without even targetting them then obviously you are a bunch of morons with deadly weapons. Anyway, your arguments are a bunch of crap. As is evident from hundreds of documentaris and talk shows and leaked military materials, the Americans murderer do not distinguish between inncents and "terrorists" when it comes to Muslims in mislim lands. If you die, then you are a terrorist as per the Americans.

[anajmi]

Untill someone leaks the information.

[Fatwa Banker]

Since when did you Wahabis care about "innocent deaths" ?

[anajmi]

Well, it seems life for those who murder innocents would be easy if people just didn't care about them now wouldn't it??

[Al Zulfiqar]

can we agree whether both; the militaries of arrogant govts who kill innocents and call it collateral damage, and those misguided zealots who murder innocents in the name of islam or some legitimate or non-legitimate causes, all are criminals?

not one of these 2 groups can claim to be less evil than the other, or claim moral superiority over the other.

[Fatwa Banker]

Not quite that simple, but good enough for the Muslim masses. Some wars are a necessary evil and there is an absolute difference between collateral damage and targeted and indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians.

[anajmi]

Some wars are a necessary evil and there is an absolute difference between collateral damage and targeted and indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians.

Correct. The only problem is when indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians is passed off as collateral damage and innocent civilians are labelled as terrorists until someone exposes the lies. But that is good enough for dumb American zombies.

[ozmujaheed]

AZ and anajmi live in a parallel hypothetical world ! Where did I state the West is guilt free ? you concluded or interpreted.

My point and if I have to elaborate like explaining to kids...Muslims , Indians, Arabs should stop throwing stones as they live in glass houses..we spend so much time blaming others and turn a blind and deaf to our own when we do the same.

Look around you do you see effigy being burnt because women get gang raped in Pakistan to settle tribal issues, do you see people dowsing themselves in petrol because a 13 year old girl is married to a 60 year old ? Where were the Muslim global demonstrations when Neda the innocent Iranian was shot ?

So if Muslims and Easterners want to get credibility in raising issues we should consistently rather than being hypocritical ?

I am not sucking up to the west but I respect their integrity to face up to their mistakes whether it is the Church or Govt.

At present their system of freedom is helping me in my agenda and I needy them more than I need supporting your whining

[Al Zulfiqar]

ozzy,

what are you doing on this thread? it doesnt have anything to do with bohras, and according to you bohras have enough problems of their own. so why waste your time and energy here, as you mentioned in the thread about ismailies? i have asked you this question twice before and you keep avoiding it.

you must complain to admin and have all such threads removed..

[ozmujaheed]

AZ No I will not ask the Admin to delete threads because it is better people see that the resistance has diverse membership, has morales and ethics..we are not here to mud sling or create topics for passing time for semi retired..there is a purpose, agenda and mission

[anajmi]

Look around you do you see effigy being burnt because women get gang raped in Pakistan to settle tribal issues

Maybe you should take the lead. Others will follow.

The church isn't facing up to their mistakes and neither is the govt. But because you are too shallow and pathetic, you won't see it. They throw crumbs at you and here you are defending their "integrity". Your word just lost its weight.

[ozmujaheed]

Anajmi ..correction I am the Western style down under, we are One, I live here, they provide me freedom, livelihood, when I fall sick they provide health, they collect my taxes, I elect them as my represenatatives and I am defending our integrity from racist bigots like you

[anajmi]

That is a fine example of integrity. A give and take integrity. You give me healthcare and I will vouch for your integrity. Fortunately, the day they refuse to provide you healthcare, you will be the first one cursing them. You deserve them and they deserve you.

[ozmujaheed]

Anajmi I do not know where you live, it will be sad if you are still in the West...but your in built hatred of the West or its system is similar to the frustration seeded by extremist viewpoints floating around in emails and discussions in Muslim circles or one sided publications.

Many immigrants are victim of some disadvantage either in employment or difficulty assimilating in the west because of their character and always find faults in western lifestyle while ridiculously assumes their birth place is better.

Your point if my elected government does not deliver services I expect yes I will protest and criticise but there are instruments like courts, representative, demonstrations..that is democracy

In Australia there is a very applicable saying.."mate if you don't like it here, please return no one forced you, you went and applied at the embassy for a visa ..don't create your mini Asia or mini Middle East here and import your tribal issues".

Back to the point I do not believe that the Western Governments intentionally sit in a board room and instruct troops to kill innocent Muslims, if that happens it is accidental and never sanctioned from the top..it is a complex mess ie war when troops hesitate they will be shot as the opponent does not wear military uniform and is not a duel , they disguise within the public , I understand their reaction. I can also understand the anger for those who are directly affected.

But I have issues with those on the sideline poking, spinning and seeding hatred for the rest.

What I admire is nowadays the Western civilization have a process and many times they punish the troops who were careless and irresponsible in performing their duties. However I do not read about that similar high morale in Middle Eastern and Asian administration.

[anajmi]

oz,

I don't hate the west. I just despise people like you who will suck up to the powerful because of the crumbs that they throw at you and are willing to paint themselves white for them. I am not interested in continuing this conversation with you.

[rania]

GM the moral of the story is that Western liberties have allowed wikileaks to bing the issue to public domain and the government has taken a wacking for it, no body from wikileaks has bee threatened, no one has disappeared or killed !

The Muslim or Developing nations do not have similar freedom to discuss, imagine if similar incidents ever happened in their own ares such as Kashmir, Pakistan, Gujarat, Middle East dictatorships, Iran, Africa

Salam ,

It is a known fact that Wikileaks the Whistleblower Website has been threatened and harassed by the US and Swedish Authorities.So much so that the US Government banned it for a considerable amount of time.Also , the Australian Government had banned Wikileaks website in March , 2009.

There is a considerable amount of Censorship in American Media.To say otherwise is laughable and completely void of facts and truth.

[rania]

Innocent people die in all major wars , that is what is war whether by Americans, British, Indians or Arabs.

Difference is Westerners are open to discussing and disclosing the innocent deaths !

I am afraid discussing and disclosing the deaths of innocents does nothing to the families of the innocents killed.It would make a difference when such culprits who intentionally set out to harm Innocents are brought under the rules and law of Geneva Convention.

I remember German Chancellor apologizing when the German Army Commander ordered a hit in Afghanistan and several innocent women and children were killed.An inquiry was set up and at the end the Commander had set down if memory serves me right.To get away with Murder in this day and age is extremely sad and disgusting to say the least.

[ozmujaheed]

Anajmi thank God you don't live here

If loyalty and rationality is sucking up to you then so be...the crumbs you talk about is priceless..it is in the form of freedom, tolerance, secularism, equity .

As Rania stated exactly the west takes responsibility even if it takes time and is shrouded in politics

I remember German Chancellor apologizing when the German Army Commander ordered a hit in Afghanistan and several innocent women and children were killed.An inquiry was set up and at the end the Commander had set down if memory serves me right.To get away with Murder in this day and age is extremely sad and disgusting to say the least.

I have not heard Mr Man Mahon Singh taking responsibility as PM for murders in Gujarat !

[rania]

As Rania stated exactly the west takes responsibility even if it takes time and is shrouded in politics

I remember German Chancellor apologizing when the German Army Commander ordered a hit in Afghanistan and several innocent women and children were killed.An inquiry was set up and at the end the Commander had set down if memory serves me right.To get away with Murder in this day and age is extremely sad and disgusting to say the least.

I have not heard Mr Man Mahon Singh taking responsibility as PM for murders in Gujarat !

Are you talking about the Riots which happened in Gujarat at the start of 21st Century ? I don't think he was even the Prime Minister at that time.

The difference between both the analogies which you have presented albeit quite incorrectly is that one is an act of an Army approved by the Government of Germany and for this reason the responsibility fell on the shoulders of the Chancellor.Regarding riots in India , it was not carried out with the permission of the Prime Minister of India.

Do you hold the Prime Minister or Chancellor responsible for every crime done by individuals in that particular country ?

Well then a lot of statements should be coming out of the office of Prime Minister of Australia for rapes , murders , pedophilia and so on .

[ozmujaheed]

rania the PM is not an individual but an institution...yes in Gujarat the state and federal machinery watched and stood by when innocent were murdered so the government may not be responsible for murder but regret their inactions and apologize

and for your information the Oz PM and then Canadian PM said sorry to the treatment of Aborigines due to state laws, Germany said sorry for treatment of Jews .

Again back to the point a squadron or company or a few soldiers may be at fault but we cannot blame the US government or military as per your own logic

[Human]

As stated by Oz in his posts, it is very true that we are only good at finger pointing when a western nation does something wrong. We fail to look in our own backyard where a lot of evil is happening. A person can only understand this point of view if he's neutral enough. All the one eyed extremists would see this as anti-islamic conspiring agenda, but sadly enough its the truth.