Conceling Religious Khowledge

[Muslim First]

Religious knowledge in in Bohra community is selectively given. What do you think in light of following Hadit?

Guidance from The Prophet (peace be upon him)

Hadrat Abu Hurairah (r.a.) reported:
Related by Abu Dawud and Tirmidhi. ‘The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said, "He who is asked about knowledge (of religion) and conceals it, will be bridled with a bridle of fire on the Day of Resurrection.``

Commentary:
Allah says in the Holy Quran Chapter 2 Surah Al-Baqarah verse 174:
Indeed those who conceal the Guidance that Allah has sent down in His Book and barter them away for paltry worldly gains, fill their bellies with fire. Allah will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection nor will He regard them as pure; and there is a painful torment for them!
If Allah Subhanah has blessed one with knowledge from the Quran and the Sunnah, and one intentionally conceals it from people, or one reveals it only if one is materially rewarded….such scholars have been warned with the unimaginable Wrath and Anger of the Lord Most High

[bensaheba]

Dear Muslim First:
If a 4th grader wants to know all about Differential Equations and you say that you are not mature enough in math as of now so wait, would you consider that as concealing?
Similarly, in our religion the knowledge is doled out to the ones who have achieved enough basic and some higher knowledge before further knowledge is given. Nothing is hidden or concealed, it is all in the books in black and white. but you have to show to the teacher first what all you have learned so far so he can proceed with further lessons. In our religion the seeds of knowledge are not thrown out of a helicopter over the land, as it can land on deep water or a stone or on unfertile land so all the seeds would be wasted. in our religion the philosophy is to cultivate and prepare the land before the seed of knowledge is sown in it.

[incredible]

^^^this is just a silly excuse given by amils when ever you try and find out truth about ismaili belief.they will give you same ridiculous excuse.

all are not so dumb to make out simple beliefs but yet they are stopped from finding out the truth.


bohras are even restricted to read Quraan with understanding coz it will just expose the truth of islaam.

[Muslim First]

Similarly, in our religion the knowledge is doled out to the ones who have achieved enough basic and some higher knowledge before further knowledge is given. Nothing is hidden or concealed,

Dear Sister Bhehn Saheba;

AS

AS you have said "our religion the knowledge" correcly informs me that your religion is different then other Muslims.

it is all in the books in black and white

And I presume books are not available to general public or are in a library accessable to scholars.

If a 4th grader wants to know all about Differential Equations and you say that you are not mature enough in math as of now so wait, would you consider that as concealing?


That is same excuse advanced by all cults.

In our religion the seeds of knowledge are not thrown out of a helicopter over the land, as it can land on deep water or a stone or on unfertile land so all the seeds would be wasted. in our religion the philosophy is to cultivate and prepare the land before the seed of knowledge is sown in it.

Once again u used "our religion" That means your religion is different then mine.


You could have dismisssed this thread just by saying your religin is different then Prophet Muhammads.

Wasalam

[incredible]

bohris are too much busy in them self that they have forgot the true essence of ISLAM.

Imam Ali (alahi salaam) didnt raised sword against those 3 pigs just because he wanted no blood shed between muslims,bohris need to revert back to akhlaaq of Imam Ali(alahi salaam) and Quraan.

[Muslim First]

Imam Ali (alahi salaam) didnt raised sword against those 3 pigs just

All reasonable Bohras should condem this Incredible Shaitan

[aziz]

for once incredible is incredibly right,calling the three pigs is an insult to pigs,and for mf who is right or who is wrong is going to be judged by allah,till then shut up and stop your fanatic preaching

[ghulam muhammed]

calling the three pigs is an insult to pigs,and for mf who is right or who is wrong is going to be judged by allah,till then shut up and stop your fanatic preaching

"Practice before you Preach"......... oops Iam sorry, this proverb is not meant for abde syednas bcoz their master practices just the opposite of what he preaches. Jaisa raja vaise praja.

[porus]

Muslim First,

salaam alayk,

What religious knowledge is being concealed from you? Specifically, what Muslim religious knowledge is being concealed from you? Is it not all clear to you from Quran and Hadith? Surely, you know it all already!

[Muslim First]

Wa-alaykum Salaam Porus;

Well brother there is so much so called Islamic Knowledge and interpretations given out in sectete. I though Hadith I posted would benifit those.

Yes Quran is with us and despite secrete talk no body has come forward with hidden passages or explainations. Ahadith are all of us to read except some more given in secrete.

Look what it does to Human beings. Read post by incredible on Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:13 pm. Do you think it help the cause of Unity?

I invite you to comment on it.

[Muslim First]

Porus

Is it not all clear to you from Quran and Hadith? Surely, you know it all already!

If Prophet SAW made this clear about Sunnah and Qur'an then why this Hadit?

[porus]

Wa-alaykum Salaam Porus;

Well brother there is so much so called Islamic Knowledge and interpretations given out in sectete. I though Hadith I posted would benifit those.

Yes Quran is with us and despite secrete talk no body has come forward with hidden passages or explainations. Ahadith are all of us to read except some more given in secrete.

Look what it does to Human beings. Read post by incredible on Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:13 pm. Do you think it help the cause of Unity?

I invite you to comment on it.

MF,

The question to you is: Is there any knowledge of Islam which is being kept secret from you?

If some sect has a secret interpretation that Islam teaches worship of the Sun and the Moon, what credence would you give it? None. right? Since you consider the Shia as deviants, why would you want to go them for any knowledge of Islam which you say you already have in abundance. Relax, brother. If Bohra divines have secret knowledge, it cannot surely be more important to you than the knowledge of the Quran and Hadith which is freely available to you.

As far as the remark from incredible is concerned, I consider it petty, scurrilous and ignorant.

[anajmi]

There are primararily two reasons to conceal knowledge. One is that you do not want the other person to become as knowledgeable as you and have the same status in the hereafter and the other is that you do not want the other person to ridicule the knowledge that you have because you might be believing in something silly.

Luckily, I remembered discussing a topic with porus sometime back and this is what porus had said

Bohras have a good, plausible justification for why it is the 23rd. I know what that is and you will not learn from me!

This is porus clearly concealing knowledge that he has. Does the prophet's hadith apply to him? Is he concealing what he believes might be real Islamic knowledge?

[porus]

Luckily, I remembered discussing a topic with porus sometime back and this is what porus had said

Bohras have a good, plausible justification for why it is the 23rd. I know what that is and you will not learn from me!

This is porus clearly concealing knowledge that he has. Does the prophet's hadith apply to him? Is he concealing what he believes might be real Islamic knowledge?

The hadith clearly states that Lailat al-qadr is one of the odd nights of the last 9/10 nights of Ramadan. If anyone else states that it is otherwise, why would you consider it Islamic religious knowledge? You already know all there is to know about Islam, as the your hero Umar said, in the book of Allah and the Sunnah.

I am not concealing any part of the Quran or hadith as you understand them. They are all over the internet. So, who is hiding it from you?

[Muslim First]

Porus

As far as the remark from incredible is concerned, I consider it petty, scurrilous and ignorant.

I expected you to say it not after being called for.

where is Adminstritation? I was in dock for something less,

[porus]

anajmi, MF

In what way is your practice of Islam being hampered because some Bohras or some Shia are allegedly concealing God's message from you?

[anajmi]

porus,

One who hides knowledge is only harming himself as per the hadith of the prophet. Now, shias believe that only they have the truth and no one else. And as we have seen in your example, they will not share this "truth" with anybody else.

So if we analyze carefully, the shias are doomed either way. If they have the true knowledge and are hiding it, then they are doomed. If they do not have the true knowledge and still continue to believe in it as the truth, even then they are doomed.

The sunnis are at an advantage in both cases. If the shias have the true knowledge and are hiding it from the sunnis, the sunnis are not to blame. Their status will be better in the hereafter as the shias will be doomed for hiding true knowledge. If the shias do not have the true knowledge, then it is better for the sunnis that the shias are unwilling to share it as they might be misled.

[porus]

anajmi,

I am touched by your concern that the Shia are doomed. But I am not interested in their fate here or in the hereafter. As you and MF already have the truth on your side and you are so confident that whatever the Shia are hiding from you is not Islam, and you are ready to pronounce and predict their doom, let me ask you again. What of God's message are they hiding from you? Don't you have access to the complete message of Islam?

Are they hiding the Quran or Sahih Bukhari, or Sahih Muslim or other authentic Sunni hadith? Are you missing anything of Prophet's teaching? Have the Shia stolen it and keeping it from you? Address these issues, please.

[anajmi]

But I am not interested in their fate here or in the hereafter.

No doubt. But I am. A lot of my relatives are ignorant shias not interested in either their own or others fate here or in the hereafter.

Here is a simple question for you. Do the shias believe that they have the truth and a right to hide it?

What of God's message are they hiding from you?

I actually do not know because I do not claim to have the complete knowledge of God's message. I have already given an example of how one shia is hiding that which he believes to be the truth. What if it is the truth? Do you know the consequences of hiding it? Fire on the day of judgment. Do you really want that? Your duty is to reveal it. Whether one believes in it or not is not your concern.

[Al Zulfiqar]

bensaheba,

your argument is only partially true. yes, all school systems work on a graduated method of education, where you progress to the next level after proving your competency in having absorbed whatever has been taught to you. but the text books are readily available and in the public domain. heck, the kids carry those textbooks in their overloaded satchels everyday! they can read them all they want, and some precocious kids actually do polish them off way ahead of the rest of the class. these texts are not concealed and the kids are not told to take a solemn oath that they will not reveal it to others!

each and every book of knowledge which is published by experts - scientists, engineers, philosophers, doctors, psychologists etc is available in the public domain. you can buy them or go borrow and read them in your public library. whether you are technically capable of understanding them is another matter. if you do original research as part of your doctoral thesis and obtain a PhD, you are not told by your guide or your university to conceal it from others!

but in the bohras, the esoteric texts are concealed and zealously guarded. in fact, the ex-syedna forcibly expropriated all such texts from bohras even upon pain of baraat. he and his agents cleverly engaged leading bohras who maintained extensive collections and if they learnt that some obscure treasures were in someone's possession, they were told to acquire them by all means. sometimes a 'royal' audience was granted to such 'donors, sometimes money, and often a bath-toy-squeaking-duck title of mullah to gain their books. i personally know of a few families who were thus deprived of such scripts.

bohras were a persecuted lot in the past, perhaps even now many of their beliefs are ridiculed by the mainstream muslims, but that is no excuse by the syedna and his establishment to systematically brainwash ordinary bohras by inviting them into their spider's web of sabaks with the devil's seduction of eating from the forbidden fruits of secret hidden texts.

hogwash.

[profastian]

There are primararily two reasons to conceal knowledge. One is that you do not want the other person to become as knowledgeable as you and have the same status in the hereafter and the other is that you do not want the other person to ridicule the knowledge that you have because you might be believing in something silly.

Luckily, I remembered discussing a topic with porus sometime back and this is what porus had said

Bohras have a good, plausible justification for why it is the 23rd. I know what that is and you will not learn from me!

This is porus clearly concealing knowledge that he has. Does the prophet's hadith apply to him? Is he concealing what he believes might be real Islamic knowledge?

There could be a third reason too. Maybe the other person will ridicule, not because the knowledge is silly, but because he may be dumb or the knowledge is beyond his comprehension. (Look what happened to Socrates, Plato, Galileo, Einstein,.. etc)

[anajmi]

profastian,

I do not think it suits you to even take the names of people like Socrates, Plato, Galileo and Einstien. These people are considered today to be amongst the most influential to mankind because they revealed their knowledge to mankind without fearing the consequences. Can you give me the example of one person who is famous because he kept his knowledge hidden? Imagine if these people had kept their knowledge hidden to themselves waiting for people like you to reveal it to!!

[Al-Muizz]

anajmi,

I am touched by your concern that the Shia are doomed. But I am not interested in their fate here or in the hereafter. As you and MF already have the truth on your side and you are so confident that whatever the Shia are hiding from you is not Islam, and you are ready to pronounce and predict their doom, let me ask you again. What of God's message are they hiding from you? Don't you have access to the complete message of Islam?

Are they hiding the Quran or Sahih Bukhari, or Sahih Muslim or other authentic Sunni hadith? Are you missing anything of Prophet's teaching? Have the Shia stolen it and keeping it from you? Address these issues, please.

Porus, you have hit the nail on the head! I might add, that while the Sunnis believe that at Ghadir Rasulallah SAW said that my command is to leave two things for you, the Quraan and my Itrat, the translation of what exactly he meant by saying, never leave these things alone has been, well, whitewashed.

Now the Sunnis believe they have the GOD GIVEN right to say who is kafir and who isn't when they don't follow what God COMMANDED anyways? To MOST SUNNIS, Ghadir is just a small story by the Shias. A small story that Allah Subhanahu COMMANDED Rasulallah SAW to stop and recall the Hajjis.....a small story that Allah COMMANDED Rasulallah to say what he said, and THEN to reveal that "the Religion is now PERFECT and COMPLETE".......all this is trivial to the Sunnis.....it's no wonder they are like shadows in the dark, trying to find where they are:)