Have Bohras Prospered Under the 51st and 52nd Dai's Era ?
-
- Posts: 11653
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm
Have Bohras Prospered Under the 51st and 52nd Dai's Era ?
A lot of abde syednas are of the view that people in the bohra community have prospered tremendously under the 51st and 52nd dai's era. Now lets look at the ground level and examine the financial status of certain bohras, especially in Mumbai:-
1) The Plywood market at Abdul rehman st and Jamli Mohalla was once controlled by bohra traders but since quite a few years it is now dominated by hindu gujaratis.
2) The Ball Bearing business especially at Nagdevi st was once controlled by bohra traders but again it has been taken over by gujaratis and marwaris and only a handful of bohras are left.
3) The Industrial and Building Hardware business at A.R.St, Nagdevi st and khokha bazar was once under the domain of bohra traders but again this too is now a virtual monopoly of gujaratis and marwaris.
4) The Glass Business was a virtual monopoly of the bohras like Dastoor, Kohinoor brand mirrors and Crown mirrors but now the bohras have almost no say in this business and the trade is controlled by kutchis, gujratis etc. The Kohinoor brand mirror used to enjoy an almost a monopoly status some years ago and the bohra owners were hardcore fanatics of kothar but ultimately they came to blows and split.
5) The Ship breaking business at darukhana was once the monopoly of the likes of Bagasrawalas, Upletawalas, Vahanvatis and other rich bohras but now these names are hardly remembered.
6) The famous Drum and bucket factory, "Tayyabi Bucket Factory" owned by Baldiwalas closed down 2 decades ago. Another very old drum factory "Bombay Drums Mfrs" closed down a decade ago.
7) The very famous and the biggest stationery store of Mumbai, "Bombay Stationery Mart" at P.M. Road, Fort which was owned by a bohra family closed down 2 decades ago.
The Dhrangadhrawalas who had a few shops at Nagdevi and who once owned the famous Radio Hotel near Musafirkhana are almost nowhere to be seen.
9) The landmark store "Akbarallys" owned by khorakhiwalas are facing very tough times due to the mushrooming of various malls accross the city. Their pharmacuetical arm, "Wockhardt" has a huge debt of more then 2000 crores.
10) The once very rich Lacewala family who had a bunglow at Nepeansea Road which is the most prime area of mumbai are in a very deep financial mess and the siblings are staying in rented houses in poona. This family was EXTREMELY close to the dai and have showered crores to the dai during their heydays. The head of the family, Mr.Akbarbhai couldnt get a place for himself in nariyalwadi kabrastan due to his ill financial health and was ultimately buried at Kurla kabrastan which is known as the poor mans kabrastan in bohras. The crores that he showered on the dai and his zaadas turned out to be a wasteful expenditure.
11) The glamour and pomp of the once famous Mohamedbhai Munim who owned York House in upmarket colaba and who was once a diehard dai fan is no more visible.
12) The Matcheswala family of Nagdevi st who were shipowners and who had given scores of ziafats to the 51st dai and who had an exclusive and beautifully furnished room at nagdevi specially for the dai which was otherwise locked for the rest of the year saw their empire crumble and at which time the zaadas and dai vanished like "ghade ke sar pe se sing". Even their head of the family was refused burial at naryalwadi but after much coaxing, cajoling and crying by his son, kothar relented.
13) The famous Bamboat family who owned a bungalow at Carter road, Bandra where the 51st dai made innumerable appearences had to sell off their bungalow to the late actor Rajendra Kumar who then sold it to Rajesh Khanna and which is now known as "Aashirwad Bungalow".
The Mumbai list itself is endless so just think about the rest of the world. When these abdes claim that bohras of today have prospered more then they are living in fantasyland and have only to study the graph and statistics of various communities worldwide and see for themselves as to how rapidly others have prospered as compared to bohras. Even the Backward class and Scheduled tribes and dalits have increased their wealth tenfolds. The recent examples of Mayawati and A.Raja who are both dalits is a fit case for study, not to forget the umpteen number of high ranking beauracrats and govt officials who are dalits and who have amassed wealth highly disproportionate to their known source of income.
1) The Plywood market at Abdul rehman st and Jamli Mohalla was once controlled by bohra traders but since quite a few years it is now dominated by hindu gujaratis.
2) The Ball Bearing business especially at Nagdevi st was once controlled by bohra traders but again it has been taken over by gujaratis and marwaris and only a handful of bohras are left.
3) The Industrial and Building Hardware business at A.R.St, Nagdevi st and khokha bazar was once under the domain of bohra traders but again this too is now a virtual monopoly of gujaratis and marwaris.
4) The Glass Business was a virtual monopoly of the bohras like Dastoor, Kohinoor brand mirrors and Crown mirrors but now the bohras have almost no say in this business and the trade is controlled by kutchis, gujratis etc. The Kohinoor brand mirror used to enjoy an almost a monopoly status some years ago and the bohra owners were hardcore fanatics of kothar but ultimately they came to blows and split.
5) The Ship breaking business at darukhana was once the monopoly of the likes of Bagasrawalas, Upletawalas, Vahanvatis and other rich bohras but now these names are hardly remembered.
6) The famous Drum and bucket factory, "Tayyabi Bucket Factory" owned by Baldiwalas closed down 2 decades ago. Another very old drum factory "Bombay Drums Mfrs" closed down a decade ago.
7) The very famous and the biggest stationery store of Mumbai, "Bombay Stationery Mart" at P.M. Road, Fort which was owned by a bohra family closed down 2 decades ago.
The Dhrangadhrawalas who had a few shops at Nagdevi and who once owned the famous Radio Hotel near Musafirkhana are almost nowhere to be seen.
9) The landmark store "Akbarallys" owned by khorakhiwalas are facing very tough times due to the mushrooming of various malls accross the city. Their pharmacuetical arm, "Wockhardt" has a huge debt of more then 2000 crores.
10) The once very rich Lacewala family who had a bunglow at Nepeansea Road which is the most prime area of mumbai are in a very deep financial mess and the siblings are staying in rented houses in poona. This family was EXTREMELY close to the dai and have showered crores to the dai during their heydays. The head of the family, Mr.Akbarbhai couldnt get a place for himself in nariyalwadi kabrastan due to his ill financial health and was ultimately buried at Kurla kabrastan which is known as the poor mans kabrastan in bohras. The crores that he showered on the dai and his zaadas turned out to be a wasteful expenditure.
11) The glamour and pomp of the once famous Mohamedbhai Munim who owned York House in upmarket colaba and who was once a diehard dai fan is no more visible.
12) The Matcheswala family of Nagdevi st who were shipowners and who had given scores of ziafats to the 51st dai and who had an exclusive and beautifully furnished room at nagdevi specially for the dai which was otherwise locked for the rest of the year saw their empire crumble and at which time the zaadas and dai vanished like "ghade ke sar pe se sing". Even their head of the family was refused burial at naryalwadi but after much coaxing, cajoling and crying by his son, kothar relented.
13) The famous Bamboat family who owned a bungalow at Carter road, Bandra where the 51st dai made innumerable appearences had to sell off their bungalow to the late actor Rajendra Kumar who then sold it to Rajesh Khanna and which is now known as "Aashirwad Bungalow".
The Mumbai list itself is endless so just think about the rest of the world. When these abdes claim that bohras of today have prospered more then they are living in fantasyland and have only to study the graph and statistics of various communities worldwide and see for themselves as to how rapidly others have prospered as compared to bohras. Even the Backward class and Scheduled tribes and dalits have increased their wealth tenfolds. The recent examples of Mayawati and A.Raja who are both dalits is a fit case for study, not to forget the umpteen number of high ranking beauracrats and govt officials who are dalits and who have amassed wealth highly disproportionate to their known source of income.
Re: Have Bohras Prospered Under the 51st and 52nd Dai's Era
Brother GM - very insightful post.
Would be interesting to hear about those diehard Abdes who have prospered due to their proximity to the Sultan's family and easy access to Karz Hasana and other funds. Families that come to mind are the Hebatullas of Nairobi, Kenya (glass business) and Kachwallas of Toronto. Can anyone else comment?
Would be interesting to hear about those diehard Abdes who have prospered due to their proximity to the Sultan's family and easy access to Karz Hasana and other funds. Families that come to mind are the Hebatullas of Nairobi, Kenya (glass business) and Kachwallas of Toronto. Can anyone else comment?
Re: Have Bohras Prospered Under the 51st and 52nd Dai's Era
Try counting numerous properties that belong to Dawwodi Bhoras and was used by Bohras only.Zadas should pay in blood.Wipe these dirty spots of the face of humanity.
-
- Posts: 11653
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm
Re: Have Bohras Prospered Under the 51st and 52nd Dai's Era
The bohras are petty shopkeepers/traders and there is no big industrial house of which bohras can be proud of. After Independence there is not a single name which features in the list of the top industrial houses of India. Whenever bohras had prominent personalities amongst them like Adamji Peerbhoy, Sir Tyebji etc. it was always at the time when kothar's grip over the community was loose and the forceful wajebat syndrome was the least of a headache for bohras.
In contrast if one looks at the parsi community which is shrinking and has a population of hardly 1/10th of bohras we find names like Tata, Godrej, Dubash, Shapoorji Pallonji, Wadias etc who figure in the list of top industrial houses of India. Even with regard to professionals we find the best of doctors like Dastoor (eye surgeon), Wadia (homeopath), Keki Mistry (Orthodentist) in parsis and no bohra doctor comes close to them. In the legal world, there are the likes of Palkhiwala, Fali Nariman, Soli Sorabjee, Ponda and judges like Setalvad, Sarosh Kapadia etc. Even in the army they had Field Marshal Maneckshaw but I dont think there are any bohras in the military. As for the police force there is one bohra, Mr.Khandwala who heads the gujrat police force (remember his posting by narendra modi after the gujrat genocide was supposed to be highly contraversial).
The only LARGE & WEALTHY GROUP which outbeats all the parsi industrial houses put together is......... K O T H A R.
In contrast if one looks at the parsi community which is shrinking and has a population of hardly 1/10th of bohras we find names like Tata, Godrej, Dubash, Shapoorji Pallonji, Wadias etc who figure in the list of top industrial houses of India. Even with regard to professionals we find the best of doctors like Dastoor (eye surgeon), Wadia (homeopath), Keki Mistry (Orthodentist) in parsis and no bohra doctor comes close to them. In the legal world, there are the likes of Palkhiwala, Fali Nariman, Soli Sorabjee, Ponda and judges like Setalvad, Sarosh Kapadia etc. Even in the army they had Field Marshal Maneckshaw but I dont think there are any bohras in the military. As for the police force there is one bohra, Mr.Khandwala who heads the gujrat police force (remember his posting by narendra modi after the gujrat genocide was supposed to be highly contraversial).
The only LARGE & WEALTHY GROUP which outbeats all the parsi industrial houses put together is......... K O T H A R.
Re: Have Bohras Prospered Under the 51st and 52nd Dai's Era
GM,
Since you are talking about hardware and other businesses that were traditionally run by bohris, let me tell you that bohris in general are very honest and hardworking when it comes to doing business. The reason for bohris loosing out mainly to kutchi gujaratis is because the market route adopted by Kutchis. These shrewd people import all the duplicate hardware stuff from China and Taiwan who are willing to put any company mark on fake and cheap products. Since, the Kutchis get the products at half the prize of original they sell the same fake brands for a much cheaper prize than bohri business man selling original stuff. This is the main reason why in Mumbai and other business hubs bohras are losing out to others. Traditionally bohras had a monopoly in hardware but since people are always looking for cheaper options there is nothing much they can do. Many other businesses have suffered in the same way.
Since you are talking about hardware and other businesses that were traditionally run by bohris, let me tell you that bohris in general are very honest and hardworking when it comes to doing business. The reason for bohris loosing out mainly to kutchi gujaratis is because the market route adopted by Kutchis. These shrewd people import all the duplicate hardware stuff from China and Taiwan who are willing to put any company mark on fake and cheap products. Since, the Kutchis get the products at half the prize of original they sell the same fake brands for a much cheaper prize than bohri business man selling original stuff. This is the main reason why in Mumbai and other business hubs bohras are losing out to others. Traditionally bohras had a monopoly in hardware but since people are always looking for cheaper options there is nothing much they can do. Many other businesses have suffered in the same way.
Re: Have Bohras Prospered Under the 51st and 52nd Dai's Era
GM Bhai,
What about the completely new markets being developed all over the world, viz a viz Dubai, Kuwait, other Gulf countries, few countries in US and UK, not forgetting African countries where DB's where non existent 50 years back or were not in good condition and now are prospered and very much present in there.
What about the completely new markets being developed all over the world, viz a viz Dubai, Kuwait, other Gulf countries, few countries in US and UK, not forgetting African countries where DB's where non existent 50 years back or were not in good condition and now are prospered and very much present in there.
Re: Have Bohras Prospered Under the 51st and 52nd Dai's Era
Aarif Bhai
It is not that Gujrati & kutchi people are shrewd and out bohras are straight (as jalebi ) so they are ahead. But now you will see the bohra traders have become more arrogant in thier approach towards their customers. They keep their profit margin high as they have double exp to bear (1) of their own house hold and of their Royal Family. Gujrati/ Marwari/Sindhis never let their customers go, also they support the other family members to grow. But our bohra brothers are more happy in pulling down the person who is growing.
Also young generation are busy in their Tolobat/Burhani Guargs/Burhani Scout round the year.
In Professional front also we are declining because to bear the expensive cost of medical/engineer field is out of reach of middle and poor class people, which is majority class in our bohra community.
It is not that Gujrati & kutchi people are shrewd and out bohras are straight (as jalebi ) so they are ahead. But now you will see the bohra traders have become more arrogant in thier approach towards their customers. They keep their profit margin high as they have double exp to bear (1) of their own house hold and of their Royal Family. Gujrati/ Marwari/Sindhis never let their customers go, also they support the other family members to grow. But our bohra brothers are more happy in pulling down the person who is growing.
Also young generation are busy in their Tolobat/Burhani Guargs/Burhani Scout round the year.
In Professional front also we are declining because to bear the expensive cost of medical/engineer field is out of reach of middle and poor class people, which is majority class in our bohra community.
-
- Posts: 1034
- Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm
Re: Have Bohras Prospered Under the 51st and 52nd Dai's Era
dear aqs,aqs wrote:GM Bhai,
What about the completely new markets being developed all over the world, viz a viz Dubai, Kuwait, other Gulf countries, few countries in US and UK, not forgetting African countries where DB's where non existent 50 years back or were not in good condition and now are prospered and very much present in there.
I dont know if u have ever been to these country like Dubai and UK,but if u get chance to go there and see how bohris are dealing in this businesses u will be so much surprise,bohris in these countries are adopting every possible haraam way to earn money,u will be surprise how many sheik and NKD tittle owner deals in interests and other haraam ways,and let me tell you amil of these countries are well informed about this deals but they are still mum just coz they are getting pocket full of money from this traders.
in bohra community rich are getting richer and poors are getting poorers exactly how Imam Ali said about the era of lain muaviyaa.
Re: Have Bohras Prospered Under the 51st and 52nd Dai's Era
incredible wrote: dear aqs,
I dont know if u have ever been to these country like Dubai and UK,but if u get chance to go there and see how bohris are dealing in this businesses u will be so much surprise,bohris in these countries are adopting every possible haraam way to earn money,u will be surprise how many sheik and NKD tittle owner deals in interests and other haraam ways,and let me tell you amil of these countries are well informed about this deals but they are still mum just coz they are getting pocket full of money from this traders.
in bohra community rich are getting richer and poors are getting poorers exactly how Imam Ali said about the era of lain muaviyaa.
Dear Incredible,
To some extent i agree that few businessmen in Dubai and other Gulf countries are involved in fake goods product but Riba or interest is a far call for maximum out their, few bad people does not represent the whole community of hard working people. So again dont use a wide brush to paint whole community as unscrupulous people.
And yes i have been to these countries i am talking about and reside in one of them currently, so a lot of it is first hand experience.
-
- Posts: 1034
- Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm
Re: Have Bohras Prospered Under the 51st and 52nd Dai's Era
aqs wrote:
Dear Incredible,
To some extent i agree that few businessmen in Dubai and other Gulf countries are involved in fake goods product but Riba or interest is a far call for maximum out their, few bad people does not represent the whole community of hard working people. So again dont use a wide brush to paint whole community as unscrupulous people.
And yes i have been to these countries i am talking about and reside in one of them currently, so a lot of it is first hand experience.
I am not sure if u are really unaware of situation or u intentionally trying to hide the truth...major traders in Dubai deals in riba and the truth came out when in 2008 recession hit Dubai and major traders went bankrupt,they had took major loans on interest and given money on interest, 40% of traders in Dubai had to leave Dubai.and most of them were owning sheikh and NKD titles.
-
- Posts: 1034
- Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm
Re: Have Bohras Prospered Under the 51st and 52nd Dai's Era
Right wrote:Aarif Bhai
It is not that Gujrati & kutchi people are shrewd and out bohras are straight (as jalebi ) so they are ahead. But now you will see the bohra traders have become more arrogant in thier approach towards their customers. They keep their profit margin high as they have double exp to bear (1) of their own house hold and of their Royal Family. Gujrati/ Marwari/Sindhis never let their customers go, also they support the other family members to grow. But our bohra brothers are more happy in pulling down the person who is growing.
Also young generation are busy in their Tolobat/Burhani Guargs/Burhani Scout round the year.
In Professional front also we are declining because to bear the expensive cost of medical/engineer field is out of reach of middle and poor class people, which is majority class in our bohra community.
cant agree more on that...this is what i said syedna and his followers are double standard they dont do what they preach or say.
Re: Have Bohras Prospered Under the 51st and 52nd Dai's Era
incredible wrote:aqs wrote:
Dear Incredible,
To some extent i agree that few businessmen in Dubai and other Gulf countries are involved in fake goods product but Riba or interest is a far call for maximum out their, few bad people does not represent the whole community of hard working people. So again dont use a wide brush to paint whole community as unscrupulous people.
And yes i have been to these countries i am talking about and reside in one of them currently, so a lot of it is first hand experience.
I am not sure if u are really unaware of situation or u intentionally trying to hide the truth...major traders in Dubai deals in riba and the truth came out when in 2008 recession hit Dubai and major traders went bankrupt,they had took major loans on interest and given money on interest, 40% of traders in Dubai had to leave Dubai.and most of them were owning sheikh and NKD titles.
40%?? man you have a real wild imagination, not even 40 left leave alone a staggering 40%. or is it again like the comment you put where 40-50 people were living in a single room, Again i offer you that just tell me when you are due in Dubai next time and i'll make sure that you have a visit to markets out there and talk to local people including non DB's and verify your fictitious claims
-
- Posts: 1034
- Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm
Re: Have Bohras Prospered Under the 51st and 52nd Dai's Era
hahaha so now u agree upon traders in dubai deals in riba,why do u try and hide facts when we all knows the truth.what are u affriad off? even non bohris knows the ugly truth of this community.
Re: Have Bohras Prospered Under the 51st and 52nd Dai's Era
incredible wrote:hahaha so now u agree upon traders in dubai deals in riba,why do u try and hide facts when we all knows the truth.what are u affriad off? even non bohris knows the ugly truth of this community.
and which of my line did you take as my agreement to that all traders in Dubai deal in interest
-
- Posts: 1034
- Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:44 pm
Re: Have Bohras Prospered Under the 51st and 52nd Dai's Era
aqs wrote:incredible wrote:hahaha so now u agree upon traders in dubai deals in riba,why do u try and hide facts when we all knows the truth.what are u affriad off? even non bohris knows the ugly truth of this community.
and which of my line did you take as my agreement to that all traders in Dubai deal in interest
how many families left Dubai coz of recession in 2008?
Re: Have Bohras Prospered Under the 51st and 52nd Dai's Era
Did only Bohras left??incredible wrote:aqs wrote:
and which of my line did you take as my agreement to that all traders in Dubai deal in interest
how many families left Dubai coz of recession in 2008?
as per the popular rumor out there almost 6 lac people left Dubai. Due to which Rents have dropped nearly 50-60% in most parts of Dubai, so only DB's were not affected but whole of Dubai got affected due to recession
Re: Have Bohras Prospered Under the 51st and 52nd Dai's Era
I do not agree with this. In the past decade or two the number of professionals in our community have increased. In my family many of my cousins have become doctors and engineers and their parents are mostly middle class. Actually if you will see nowadays all the traditional business communities are trying to get their children well educated since there is not much you can do today without proper education...In Professional front also we are declining because to bear the expensive cost of medical/engineer field is out of reach of middle and poor class people, which is majority class in our bohra community.
-
- Posts: 11653
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm
Re: Have Bohras Prospered Under the 51st and 52nd Dai's Era
Bro aqs,aqs wrote:GM Bhai,
What about the completely new markets being developed all over the world, viz a viz Dubai, Kuwait, other Gulf countries, few countries in US and UK, not forgetting African countries where DB's where non existent 50 years back or were not in good condition and now are prospered and very much present in there.
In no way do I mean to say that bohras are poor or beggars. I can give you a list of crorepati bohras also who have prospered much like everyone other community on this globe, thanks to the economic boom. The reason for starting this debate is not to prove that bohras are poor but the figment of imagination of certain abdes that bohras have prospered a lot only in this dai's era and that they are not in a financial mess. It is to present the other side of the story which is never highlighted by kothar or fanatic bohras. The above mentioned examples are a few and I can quote much more worrisome figures amongst present day bohras. The plight of the poor ones who live in unhygeinic slums of mumbai, surat and other cities is well known. Just find out as to how many bohras lived in slums years ago as compared to today.
-
- Posts: 11653
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm
Re: Have Bohras Prospered Under the 51st and 52nd Dai's Era
Bro bohri,bohri wrote:Would be interesting to hear about those diehard Abdes who have prospered due to their proximity to the Sultan's family and easy access to Karz Hasana and other funds
The maximum benefit of karze hasanah is taken by bohras who reside abroad especially in Dubai. I know many bohras of dubai who use karze hasanah as their seed capital and have turnover in millions, especially the building hardware trade. I have met people (even in places like canada) who are ready to buy the sheikh title even if it means shelling out close to not less then 52 lacs, their only purpose being that once they get this title it will be easy for them to loot the karze hasanah funds in a big way. Their calculations are simple, the millions spent for getting titles are an investment which gives them access to millions of interest free funds and the rules too are relaxed or broken for them. They even gain close proximity to the zaadas who too are on a constant lookout of bohras whom they can trust and who can park their billions in their businesses.