Progressive Bohras and Ahmed Ali Raj

[murtaza2152]

Admin Dont delete this post of mine as you have did Earlier ,It does not deals with 46th Dai issue.

@Progressives

When you go for Zyarat in Udaipur ,,Do
you do ZYARAT of Ahmed
Ali??

Is Every year at Ahmed Alis
Death day Behram or Urs or
Tilvatul Quraan Majlis is coducted by Progs?? If Yes,
Why?


Ahmed Ali also used to be
the Pesh Imam of Progs Masjid for many years after Expelled from Jamia ,
and delivered vaaz in
Moharram and many
Occassions in Udaipur.


ADMIN DONT DELETE IT

[Humsafar]

See my answers in red. Why do have this annoying habit of wrapping your sentences after every few words? Please write in straight sentence and let the words wrap naturally. Thanks.

Admin Dont delete this post of mine as you have did Earlier ,It does not deals with 46th Dai issue.

@Progressives

When you go for Zyarat in Udaipur ,,Do
you do ZYARAT of Ahmed
Ali??
NO

Is Every year at Ahmed Alis
Death day Behram or Urs or
Tilvatul Quraan Majlis is coducted by Progs?? If Yes,
Why?
NO

Ahmed Ali also used to be
the Pesh Imam of Progs Masjid for many years after Expelled from Jamia ,
and delivered vaaz in
Moharram and many
Occassions in Udaipur.


ADMIN DONT DELETE IT

[murtaza2152]

Is this your view? Or All the Progs of Udaipur?



If you dont go for his Zyarat, dont celebrate his Urs,
So why are you concerned about his Qabr??

Remember Our's and Your's (as official) 52 nd Dail Mutlaq says him a MANAHIS and sends LANAT on him.

[Humsafar]

It's not a view, idiot. This is the way things are.

If you don't do ziyarat and celebrate Urs then it's ok to destroy a grave, huh??? Where do you get your logic and humanity from? I'm hoping not from your masters?

[profastian]

It's not a view, idiot. This is the way things are.

If you don't do ziyarat and celebrate Urs then it's ok to destroy a grave, huh??? Where do you get your logic and humanity from? I'm hoping not from your masters?

But there was no such outrage expressed at the Destruction of Raudat Tahera thread. Or is that ok?

[Al Zulfiqar]

Remember Our's and Your's (as official) 52 nd Dail Mutlaq says him a MANAHIS and sends LANAT on him.

that shows the low calibre and cowardliness of the dai you refer to as god on earth! the dai's attempts to cover his own criminality, lies, deception and fraud on his followers in the name of religion and our deen which he and his father have perverted and distorted beyond recognition, lies which people like sheikh ahmed ali was privy to and had strongly objected about, having caught this syedna and his father red-handed playing god with our faith and beliefs is the real reason why syedna utters laanats on this great ustaad.

the pity is that fools and immature upstarts like you with no knowledge of our religion, history or past dai's, come here to expose your stupidity, thinking that whatever you see today is the truth. you are the perfect example of an ignorant runt, who shoots his mouth of with nothing in his brain but ghanu jeevo b.s.

[murtaza2152]

@Humsafar and Progs

If you don do his Zyarat ,Why are you concerned??

Report quoted,
"challenged the
sentiments of the believers
especially the Dawoodi bohra Jamaat (Bohra Youth)."


http://www.udaipurblog.com/ attempt-to-destroy-holy- grave-aroused-anger-in-
entire-udaipur.html


Believers of Ahmed Ali??
So what are the Sentiments for Ahmed Ali in Youth Bohra Progressives??

Humsafar said No Progs Do his zyarat,
If no one does Zyarat ,how were flowers on his so called HOLY grave??

[Al Zulfiqar]

If no one does Zyarat ,how were flowers on his so called HOLY grave??

that is a moajiza, the same type performed by syedna all the time. only this was done by the imammuzzaman himself.

[ghulam muhammed]

If you don do his Zyarat ,Why are you concerned??

Stupid ideology from a stupid abde... I presume that you must not have done ziarat of your grandfather or great great grandfather but if at all you come to know that their grave is descreted then will you be a mute spectator or voice your concern ? There is something which is known as humanity which the abdes lack bcoz if not for anything then atleast on humanitarian grounds one would flamicind the act of descreting the graves as inhuman and even unislamic.

So what are the Sentiments for Ahmed Ali in Youth Bohra Progressives??

Although Iam not a member of Progressive Bohras but from my interaction with them I have known that Shk Ahmed Ali Raj for them was a respected and knowledgeable person who had managed to spill beans with regard to dawat which caused much embarassment to the kothar and as a face saving tool they boycotted him from the community and carried out an exercise of mass propoganda against him.

If no one does Zyarat ,how were flowers on his so called HOLY grave??

Bro AZ has given you a good reply but on a serious note it may have been done by his family or some well wishers.

[stranger]

There is something which is known as humanity which the abdes lack bcoz if not for anything then atleast on humanitarian grounds one would flamicind the act of descreting the graves as inhuman and even unislamic.

Bro Ghulam,
what ab reformist replies( including yours ) under thread 'do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished'..where was your islamic ethics and Humanity that time ?

[Al Zulfiqar]

stranger,

i see where you are trying to go with this.

please read br. gm's reply again. he has talked of desecrating and disrespecting graves which is what has been done with sheikh ahmed ali's grave. unlike the last dai, he was not a tyrant, robber or liar, nor a person convicted in a court of law, not a person who lived a life of ayyashi at his followers' expense, neither did he seek fanciful titles like sardar or went out and bought ceremonial posts of vice-chancellor by bribing people and institutions. in fact he was the ustad of the present syedna and has taught him much of what the syedna touts today.

demolishing the raudat tahera would be justified knowing the sort of evil character the last dai was, unfit to lead our community or anyone else's. having said that, no reformist would ever contemplate such an act. the thread is a purely a theoretical exercise in provoking debate and rational thinking. the reformists have never ever desecrated any graves nor indulged in unleashing hired goons against their opponents and getting them murdered, like the last 2 syednas have done.

[profastian]

stranger,

i see where you are trying to go with this.

please read br. gm's reply again. he has talked of desecrating and disrespecting graves which is what has been done with sheikh ahmed ali's grave. unlike the last dai, he was not a tyrant, robber or liar, nor a person convicted in a court of law, not a person who lived a life of ayyashi at his followers' expense, neither did he seek fanciful titles like sardar or went out and bought ceremonial posts of vice-chancellor by bribing people and institutions. in fact he was the ustad of the present syedna and has taught him much of what the syedna touts today.

demolishing the raudat tahera would be justified knowing the sort of evil character the last dai was, unfit to lead our community or anyone else's. having said that, no reformist would ever contemplate such an act. the thread is a purely a theoretical exercise in provoking debate and rational thinking. the reformists have never ever desecrated any graves nor indulged in unleashing hired goons against their opponents and getting them murdered, like the last 2 syednas have done.

Hmm... Now what sort of rational thinking would the demolition of Raudat Tahera invoke... I guess your sort...

[ghulam muhammed]

Bro Ghulam,
what ab reformist replies( including yours ) under thread 'do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished'..where was your islamic ethics and Humanity that time ?

Bro stranger,

"Humanity" is for Humans and not for people who treat fellow humans as inhuman and "Islamic ethics" are for the ones who treat others as human and/or follow Islam in its right perspective. If Osama or Dawood Ibrahim came with a gun to murder you, I dont think you will act humanly with those inhumans or if a tapori or bhai showers gaalis on you I dont think you will talk with him in tehzeeb bhari urdu bcoz they wont understand that language, jiska jaisa sawal usko vaisa jawab dena chahiye.

[stranger]

Bro Ghulam,
what ab reformist replies( including yours ) under thread 'do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished'..where was your islamic ethics and Humanity that time ?

Bro stranger,

"Humanity" is for Humans and not for people who treat fellow humans as inhuman and "Islamic ethics" are for the ones who treat others as human and/or follow Islam in its right perspective. If Osama or Dawood Ibrahim came with a gun to murder you, I dont think you will act humanly with those inhumans or if a tapori or bhai showers gaalis on you I dont think you will talk with him in tehzeeb bhari urdu bcoz they wont understand that language, jiska jaisa sawal usko vaisa jawab dena chahiye.

Bro Ghulam,
Let me make it Simple.
Osama : For One section - He is evil, murderer and inhuman, as u said but for lakhs of muslim he is Icon, Messiha and soldier of Islam.
Sydena taher Saifuddin - For you he is __________ but for DB he is their 51th Dai, and a holy figure.
Sheikh Ahmed Ali : For DB he is ________ but among reformist he is respected, pioneer and intrusmental figure againts kothar's tyranny and injustice.
My point is evryone have their own views, faith and sentiments..You can not disrespect and hurt them just coz you dont fall in the same category..I hope you are getting me.

[canadian]

Bro Ghulam,
Let me make it Simple.
Osama : For One section - He is evil, murderer and inhuman, as u said but for lakhs of muslim he is Icon, Messiha and soldier of Islam.
Sydena taher Saifuddin - For you he is __________ but for DB he is their 51th Dai, and a holy figure.
Sheikh Ahmed Ali : For DB he is ________ but among reformist he is respected, pioneer and intrusmental figure againts kothar's tyranny and injustice.
My point is evryone have their own views, faith and sentiments..You can not disrespect and hurt them just coz you dont fall in the same category..I hope you are getting me.

Stranger:

Is it o k for bohras to curse the first three khalifas who are respectd by majority of muslims?

[stranger]

Stranger:

Is it o k for bohras to curse the first three khalifas who are respectd by majority of muslims?

As i Said..evryone have their own beliefs and view to see things..So as the majority of muslims and so as we bohra's have..right.
What we are doing, is doing inside our mosque,in our wahaz,on our belief..My point is What you do and thinks.Keep it with you & within those peoples, who agrees with u..dont tell us.

[SBM]

stranger
What we are doing, is doing inside our mosque,in our wahaz,on our belief..

Br. If we can not do it in public and do behind then it is called GHIBAAT, my point is as Muslim Ummah we have enough enemies, do we need to create more fissure among ourselves. Let Allah be the judge, we do not have to praise three Khalifas but do we really need to curse them? If Kothar can sing praises of Narendra Modi and Bal Thackrey instead of cursing them, (known enemies and murders of Muslims including Mumineens) then atleast those Khalifas were relatives and advisers of Our Beloved Nabi and Prophet Mohammed(saw) do you think Prophet made mistake in making them as his relatives or advisers and if you think so, then the whole concept of Masum of Ahl-Bayt goes down the drain because then Prophet made mistake according to our curses.

[Conscíous]

Bro Ghulam,
Let me make it Simple.
Osama : For One section - He is evil, murderer and inhuman, as u said but for lakhs of muslim he is Icon, Messiha and soldier of Islam.
Sydena taher Saifuddin - For you he is __________ but for DB he is their 51th Dai, and a holy figure.
Sheikh Ahmed Ali : For DB he is ________ but among reformist he is respected, pioneer and intrusmental figure againts kothar's tyranny and injustice.
My point is evryone have their own views, faith and sentiments..You can not disrespect and hurt them just coz you dont fall in the same category..I hope you are getting me.

Br Stranger,
Most of us are from this cult & we find nothing wrong in criticizing & ridiculous OUR OWN bogus culture..

[stranger]

stranger
What we are doing, is doing inside our mosque,in our wahaz,on our belief..

Br. If we can not do it in public and do behind then it is called GHIBAAT, my point is as Muslim Ummah we have enough enemies, do we need to create more fissure among ourselves. Let Allah be the judge, we do not have to praise three Khalifas but do we really need to curse them? If Kothar can sing praises of Narendra Modi and Bal Thackrey instead of cursing them, (known enemies and murders of Muslims including Mumineens) then atleast those Khalifas were relatives and advisers of Our Beloved Nabi and Prophet Mohammed(saw) do you think Prophet made mistake in making them as his relatives or advisers and if you think so, then the whole concept of Masum of Ahl-Bayt goes down the drain because then Prophet made mistake according to our curses.

Dear Oma,
THanks for enlightment but can u please tell me what you have to say on, most of the you doing here againts last two Dais ? Arent you judging and cursing them ?

[Doctor]

Is this your view? Or All the Progs of Udaipur?



If you dont go for his Zyarat, dont celebrate his Urs,
So why are you concerned about his Qabr??

Remember Our's and Your's (as official) 52 nd Dail Mutlaq says him a MANAHIS and sends LANAT on him.

Even an 'adna mumin' should not utter 'gaali', it is bad than worst if claimant of position of 'Dai': Burhanuddin sahab gives 'gaali' ("MANAHIS") to Sheikh Ahmed Ali Raj! It infers, Burhanuddin sahab do not even qualify to be called (basic) 'mumin' .

Command of Quran is, "Laanat on liers". In reference to Chanda Bhai Gull case, in court: Bade Mulla Taher Saifuddin sahab spoke lies thus per command of Quran: Allah curses Laanat on Taher Saifuddin sahab.

[murtaza2152]

@Doctor,
Can you present a Single proof that Muqaddas Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA Spoke lie in Court??


You have also not presented proof of Saiyadi Sadiq Ali Sahebs Nasihat, ie Matlaa of Nasihat and last 5 Stanzas of it...
You have just copy pasted from Insafs Post..!!

[Doctor]

@Doctor,
Can you present a Single proof that Muqaddas Syedna Taher Saifuddin RA Spoke lie in Court??


You have also not presented proof of Saiyadi Sadiq Ali Sahebs Nasihat, ie Matlaa of Nasihat and last 5 Stanzas of it...
You have just copy pasted from Insafs Post..!!

Why no response on point of Burhanuddin sahab uttering 'gaali' - which was your limelight point?

If I present proof right now that Taher Saifuddin spoke lies then what will you do next? Will u follow the suit of Quran in sending laanat on Taher Saifuddin sahab?

[SBM]

stranger

Dear Oma,
THanks for enlightment but can u please tell me what you have to say on, most of the you doing here against last two Dais ? Arent you judging and cursing them ?

Two wrongs do not make one right. I am against cursing anyone and I am not one of the person on this forum using abusive language or insulting remarks for any Dais or Syedna or anyone.In past I may have done it but I realized that uncivilized manners are not the way to reform or have dialogue

[stranger]

Two wrongs do not make one right. I am against cursing anyone and I am not one of the person on this forum using abusive language or insulting remarks for any Dais or Syedna or anyone.In past I may have done it but I realized that uncivilized manners are not the way to reform or have dialogue

will you not curse Yazid-ibn-Muawiya (cbuh) and Shimr-Ibn-Jawshan (cbuh) ?

[SBM]

Stranger
Now you are acting like a spoiled child. There is time and place for everything. and yes I did call you a SPOILED CHILD who wants to argue for the sake of argument and I am going to leave at that....

[SBM]

Stragner
I am glad you did not ask me if I curse Narendra Modi and Bal Thackrey who abdes and Kotharis worship like savior and their record is no better than Hitler and Shimar, Yazid et al....]WHY DO NOT YOU CURSE NARENDRA MODI WHO IS BANNED FROM EUROPE AND USA DUE TO HIS HUMAN RIGHT RECORDS OR I SUPPOSE IT PERFECTLY MESHES WITH SOME OF THE KOTHARI GOONS

[stranger]

Stranger
Now you are acting like a spoiled child. There is time and place for everything. and yes I did call you a SPOILED CHILD who wants to argue for the sake of argument and I am going to leave at that....

Awwwww Oma....Dont get frustated Its fine.
Neway,
Let me summarise in single line : Everyone who oppressed Panjantans deserves curse...If you are selective on it, its ur wish !!!

[SBM]

Stranger
You did not answer if you would curse NARENDRA MODI? or would you felicitate like Kothari Goons do even though he has blood of Mumineen(followers of Panjatan Pak) on his hands.

[Muslim First]

Cursing has been discussed extensively on this forum.

You might want to serch using "cursing"

Here is one you might want to read

Cursing companions
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... it=cursing

[stranger]

Stranger
You did not answer if you would curse NARENDRA MODI? or would you felicitate like Kothari Goons do even though he has blood of Mumineen(followers of Panjatan Pak) on his hands.

Dear Oma,
If you will ask my personal opinion then i would say 'YES' i will but its not ab what you thinks and what i thinks..we have a realy shorter prespective vision to see things..when a religious leader do something then there must be some reason behind it, some better reason i must say, which is beyond our understanding right now..or may be we cant think what he thinks coz neither we have that responsility of carrying the community or niether our act will do any harm to entire community but He carries all those responsibilities and his decision and remark can hurt and can bore fruits as well..so he knows better.
I know what i am writing here is of no use and all of you are going to come up with some sarcastic or crticism remarks and comments but still let me try a bit.
may be for a moment, for a second, if i can let you even think beyond hatred and critism then i will think my work is done.
We all know our history well enough.
IMAM Hasan (A.S.) makes treaty and peace with Muawiya (cbuh). He had done what he thought was the best for people, their safety and Islam and its future that time.
IMAM Hussain (A.S.) didn not pledge allegiance to Yazeed (cbuh) and sacrifice his life. He had done what he thought was best for people, Islam and its future that time.
Pardon me but I am not comparing any personality with anyone here, NO...I am just trying to stimulate the point that it will be unfair to judge the decision of any leader at any point of time..They had done and for sure doing which is best, at particular time..We should keep put rather Faith, not questions on them.

Let me tell you something...During the Gujarat Riots there was pressure on Gujarat Govn to spare the life, property, business and prayer place of Bohra's
( I know, Its hard for you to digest this but its true.) and it did work also but unfortunately, not entirely.. That why bohra's have suffered compratively much less than Majority ..in term of life, property, mosque and Dargah's..evrything.
The States Name which you have stated are both highly sensitive and powered and kinda ruled by Safron color flags and in both of the states bohras can be found in pretty large numbers.
You have to see lot of things before you speak and Do..The Peace, Harmony and life of your followers and community will be at stake on your move.
Are not u seeing, what Majority of Muslims in india are facing today cause few of their leaders just stands up and spoke whatever comes in their mouth.
but having negligible in numbers but still Bohra's are treated with Respect, seen as Peace loving n innocent community..by Pubilc and by Police as well..Mind It.
Its very easy to protest, criticise and judge anything but my dear its realy difficult to nurture, protect and lead anything..Ummmmm....say community