What happens when the syedna dies?

[needtobefair]

Hi everyone,
1. Will there be a change in rules?
2. Will it be required to change the picture or put both up? for how long?
3 Will there be some sort of mourning period that all the bohras have to go thru? like attending the mosque everyday ,grows beards, wear black, close their establishments etc etc
4. Is the new heir better than the previous one in terms of being liberal and open minded?

Please let me know. Additional information is welcome.

Thanks
NTBF.

[Muslim First]

In nutshell

Ool ma thi chool ma.

[fearAllah]

To start with there will be huge collection of money to build his zaree temple

[Humsafar]

There will be a mourning period accompanied with endless matam. A new Rodaut Burhaniya will be built with great fanfare, one more place on Bohra ziyarat circuit, one more place for Bohras to empty their pockets. And it will be business as usual. Dais come dais go, Dawat Inc continues.

[profastian]

There will be a mourning period accompanied with endless matam. A new Rodaut Burhaniya will be built with great fanfare, one more place on Bohra ziyarat circuit, one more place for Bohras to empty their pockets. And it will be business as usual. Dais come dais go, Dawat Inc continues.

So let me get this right. You guys have problem with EVERY Dai and the Dawat itself.
Is this your official position.
You guys make such a mockery of you movement and your so called official position.
I mean jokes aside, don't you see the hypocrisy of it all.
On one hand you consider him your DAI, with all the power in all religious affairs(your official position) and then you mock all things religious sanctioned by him (matam, zyarat, sajood, etc).
At least we abdes are not hypocrites( we might be dumb, gullible,slavish etc according to you but not hypocrites). Whatever we do (whether you consider it as un islamic , shirk or Kufr) we are proud of it.

[Humsafar]

Dr. Faust, don't look for an 'official' position in everything we say. It is dawat's "missionary position" - in which borhas are screwed - that matters more.

[needtobefair]

Hi Guys,
Can someone answer my questions seriously and explicitly? For some reason even bohras are curious of whats going to happen. It is not just me alone. So, if you'll have any valid info that will help, please post it.
Thanks
Needtobefair.

[profastian]

Hi everyone,
1. Will there be a change in rules? - Depends on what you mean by rules and what is your definition of changing rules
2. Will it be required to change the picture or put both up? for how long? - This really is a personal call. You can choose to keep 3 too, Taher Saifuddin Maula, Burhanudin Maula and Muffadal Bhai Saheb (untill he become the next Dai, that is) but that depends on home to home
3 Will there be some sort of mourning period that all the bohras have to go thru? like attending the mosque everyday ,grows beards, wear black, close their establishments etc etc - Of course, there will be the obligatory (not mandatory) mourning of 40 days till the Chelum. About the growing of beards, nope. Wearing black, nope, we dont wear black but white, even in a funeral. Closing establishments will also be obligatory for atleast till the 3rd day, but then, you'd probably do it if someone close to you in the family died too. Beyond that is again a personal choice
4. Is the new heir better than the previous one in terms of being liberal and open minded? - Most people, proggies included, figure Muffadal bhai saheb to be more liberal and open-minded. But that is something only time will tell

Please let me know. Additional information is welcome.

Thanks
NTBF.

My replies are in Red, but these are my personal POV's only

I agree with the top 3 points but not the fourth. There is no such thing as a liberal or open minded DAI or one DAI being more so than the other, in the bohra doctrine. Every DAI is the same. He just adapts his strategy according to changing times.

[fearAllah]

2. Will it be required to change the picture or put both up? for how long? - This really is a personal call. You can choose to keep 3 too, Taher Saifuddin Maula, Burhanudin Maula and Muffadal Bhai Saheb (untill he become the next Dai, that is) but that depends on home to home

What if someone wants to hang all the 52 Dai photos? You know and I know thats impossible, because its against Quran, Prophets, ahlal-Bayt teachings, Do you mean to say all the early Dais (who were in line with the prophet Mohammed) were wrong in banning painting of themselves?

[fearAllah]

I agree with the top 3 points but not the fourth. There is no such thing as a liberal or open minded DAI or one DAI being more so than the other, in the bohra doctrine. Every DAI is the same. He just adapts his strategy according to changing times.

Thats the biggest hypocracy in the din of Mohammed. Fabrication will only make you go away from Allah, Christians are the living examples for you, look what happen to their bible/religion by adapting according to changing times.

The word and rules set by Allah are the final words, the final revelation!

[needtobefair]

thanks for the info.
Altho, i do feel that adapting to the current times without losing sight of the goal only helps people stay together. All the holy books were written at a time to suit the then "current" situation. And if you go to see, each one of them actually adapts to each and every era very easily. The Quran, Bible, Geeta etc all have the same foudation of teachings.
But, of late we seem to take scriptures out of context and invest time in being competitive.
Its the teachings that are important.
Do we need the e-jamaat id cards to attend all these gatherings at the mosque?

[Muslim First]

mustafanalwalla and fearallah

You should readup all the pages of ismaili.net

This is how you adopt to changes and assimilate hidu religin in Islam,

Bohras are slowley moving that way.

[fearAllah]

mustafanalwalla and fearallah

You should readup all the pages of ismaili.net

This is how you adopt to changes and assimilate hidu religin in Islam,

Bohras are slowley moving that way.

Absolutely right bro, like the christians too, every certain period priest of highest eminence from their religion set up a panel and remove the words of God claiming that they are outdated and replace/follow it with human words/thinking, the new testament is a classic example, no wonder it has got so many flaws!

Bohra are indeed following the footsteps of this theory.

[fearAllah]

mustafanalwalla and fearallah

You should readup all the pages of ismaili.net

This is how you adopt to changes and assimilate hidu religin in Islam,

Bohras are slowley moving that way.

Absolutely right bro, like the christians too, every certain period priests of highest eminence from their religion set up a panel and remove the words of God claiming that they are outdated and replace/follow it with human words/thinking, the new testament is a classic example, no wonder it has got so many flaws!

Bohra are indeed following the footsteps of this theory.

[anajmi]

Which is exactly why the thread on Sajda to our Dai went into +9 pages. We do Sajda out of respect and love but everyone else wants to know why do we do that when the Quran Sharif does not condone it or encourage it (which i have BTW, gathered from all the posts on the topic).

And even though that thread went into 9 pages, did you learn anything from it about what the Quran and the prophet (saw) say about sajda to a human being? Do you do sajda to your parents out of love and respect? Don't you respect and love them?

[Humsafar]

I agree with the top 3 points but not the fourth. There is no such thing as a liberal or open minded DAI or one DAI being more so than the other, in the bohra doctrine. Every DAI is the same. He just adapts his strategy according to changing times.

Absolutely right, in the usurped and rigged Bohra doctrine of today there is no room for one Dai to be different from the other. These days they all come in the fixed missionary position, intent on screwing gullible herd of slaves. Of course in earlier times Dais were different, they had personality, character and integrity towards the basic tenets of our faith. These days distort religion out of shape and call it "adapt strategy according to changing times".

[profastian]

I agree with the top 3 points but not the fourth. There is no such thing as a liberal or open minded DAI or one DAI being more so than the other, in the bohra doctrine. Every DAI is the same. He just adapts his strategy according to changing times.

Absolutely right, in the usurped and rigged Bohra doctrine of today there is no room for one Dai to be different from the other. These days they all come in the fixed missionary position, intent on screwing gullible herd of slaves. Of course in earlier times Dais were different, they had personality, character and integrity towards the basic tenets of our faith. These days distort religion out of shape and call it "adapt strategy according to changing times".

Usurpsed by whom? The DAI? But the DAI defines the Bohra doctrine, How can he usurp something which is his own
Rigged by whom? The DAI? But the DAI defines the Bohra doctrine, What then is the purpose of rigging something?

[needtobefair]

Thanks!
Well, i dont have a card, never had one and declined from getting my picture clicked for the new one. No idea if my in laws have gone ahead and made one anyway or if thats even possible.
I just wanted to know how this is going to impact my married life and what I need to be prepared for.

[fearAllah]

I agree with the top 3 points but not the fourth. There is no such thing as a liberal or open minded DAI or one DAI being more so than the other, in the bohra doctrine. Every DAI is the same. He just adapts his strategy according to changing times.

Absolutely right, in the usurped and rigged Bohra doctrine of today there is no room for one Dai to be different from the other. These days they all come in the fixed missionary position, intent on screwing gullible herd of slaves. Of course in earlier times Dais were different, they had personality, character and integrity towards the basic tenets of our faith. These days distort religion out of shape and call it "adapt strategy according to changing times".

Wherever I go, all muslims make fun and shame of our bohora cult, they dont consider us as muslims, these days even the Shia's have started mocking our community, even the ithna'shiri have started to hate us and dont consider us as shi'as/muslim too after finding out about the kufars and haram things we do to worship the Dai. I thank Allah that i realized the truth, and i am happy that i am not the only one, many more like me still exists in the community with Safai Chitthi, our "Gheb na Jannar" Dai is not spiritual enough to know about it haha, many of my friends like my type go to the Dai (not believeing him but just in fear of the peers and baraat) with empty covers in their hands to do salam, the Dai doesnt have a bloody clue about it. Alhamdullilah many more are realizing and increasing within the community.

[fearAllah]

One day the entire 1.5 billions muslims will find out about our cult and dummy god and the we will be removed officiallly from the Muslim list, banned from Hajj, who knows even banned from Najaf and Karbala by the Shi'as.

[Humsafar]

Usurpsed by whom? The DAI? But the DAI defines the Bohra doctrine, How can he usurp something which is his own
Rigged by whom? The DAI? But the DAI defines the Bohra doctrine, What then is the purpose of rigging something?

The Dai does not define anything. His role (which he famously neglects) is merely to summon people to faith and guide people of faith - and that faith is defined in the sacred scriptures, the basic tenets of which are absolute and unchanging.

[anajmi]

I agree with profasstian over here. Bohra doctrine is the Dais creation. This one and the ones before him. This doctrine has nothing to do with Islam.

[accountability]

Wherever I go, all muslims make fun and shame of our bohora cult, they dont consider us as muslims, these days even the Shia's have started mocking our community.......................

FearAllah, may I not agree with you, it is wrong that muslims look down upon bohra. In my opinion our community is best regarded by everyone including muslims, for their peaceful behaviour and enterpunership. our community has the highest literacy rate among any muslim community. our community has most doctors, engineer, professionals per capita than even the most advanced societies. Syedna saheb has the credit for transforming our community into a vibrant one. Besides peripherals of religion, our community would be the most observant of islamic rituals, namaz, roza, zakat, hajj, umra etc. it is wrong that we are following suit of the ismailis or agakhanis. Muslim first is mistaken that our community is shifting towards hinduism. The good thing about our community is, we are not taught to hate anyone, including sunnis, shias, christian or hindus. look there are things that i do not agree with administration, and i am very vocal about it even in my jamat. But that is for administrative reasons. I have no problem with religion or its basic tenets. If you want to criticize, which you have every right, you can critcize the administration for their indignified behaviour or their corruption or highhandedness.

profastian wrote:
Usurpsed by whom? The DAI? But the DAI defines the Bohra doctrine, How can he usurp something which is his own

Rigged by whom? The DAI? But the DAI defines the Bohra doctrine, What then is the purpose of rigging something?


The Dai does not define anything. His role (which he famously neglects) is merely to summon people to faith and guide people of faith - and that faith is defined in the sacred scriptures, the basic tenets of which are absolute and unchanging.

Usurpsed by whom? The DAI? But the DAI defines the Bohra doctrine, How can he usurp something which is his own
Rigged by whom? The DAI? But the DAI defines the Bohra doctrine, What then is the purpose of rigging something?

The Dai does not define anything. His role (which he famously neglects) is merely to summon people to faith and guide people of faith - and that faith is defined in the sacred scriptures, the basic tenets of which are absolute and unchanging.

I totally agree with hamsafar, dai does not drfine any doctorine, he is the ultimate sumoner, thats all he has to do. According to our own doctorine Dai is not granted any power to define or change the doctorine, but follow it in letter and spirit.

[needtobefair]

I cannot talk to anyone in the community since I exclude myself from them where these issues are concerned. Neither can I talk to my in laws since they're the ones who harrasesd me in the first place about the card which I stood firm that I wouldnt get done.
Thats the reason i posted my problem on this forum.
It seems that everyone is just as clueless .Petty mudslinging seems to be more of the norm where everyone is waiting in the sidelines to attack each other. Instead of moving forward and have constructive debates, most posts take 2 steps backward.
A suggestion - why dont you'll ignore comments of the those moving from the sublime to ridiculous? It’s just a waste of time. And the end of the day, no point in loosing ones dignity of over those who do not have the maturity to endure a decent discussion.
I may be an outsider but i'm married to a bohra. And I've seen this happenening way too often.

[Muslim First]

AC
Muslim first is mistaken that our community is shifting towards hinduism. The good thing about our community is, we are not taught to hate anyone, including sunnis, shias, christian or hindus.

Sorry, I should have said DBs should abondone Hindu prectices.

Are you sure you are not taught to hate Mainstram Muslims?

By proclaiming hatread for 4+1 you are creating hate for those who respect 4+1.

[Muslim First]

Fearallah
One day the entire 1.5 billions muslims will find out about our cult and dummy god and the we will be removed officiallly from the Muslim list, banned from Hajj, who knows even banned from Najaf and Karbala by the Shi'as.

Look at how you behave in front of millions of Muslims when you are doing Hujj,
You do not pray with your fellow Muslim or pretend to pray.
You have different day for rituals,
Despite knowing this authorities are tolarating you for the unity of Ummah.
Can'nt you just get along?
Remember when one of Imam of Madhab went to masjid of Imam of other Madhab he prayed just like him.
If you visit Mandir you will not offend your host by refusing prasad or tilla!
Wasalaam

[profastian]

Fearallah
One day the entire 1.5 billions muslims will find out about our cult and dummy god and the we will be removed officiallly from the Muslim list, banned from Hajj, who knows even banned from Najaf and Karbala by the Shi'as.

Look at how you behave in front of millions of Muslims when you are doing Hujj,
You do not pray with your fellow Muslim or pretend to pray.
You have different day for rituals,
Despite knowing this authorities are tolarating you for the unity of Ummah.
Can'nt you just get along?
Remember when one of Imam of Madhab went to masjid of Imam of other Madhab he prayed just like him.
If you visit Mandir you will not offend your host by refusing prasad or tilla!
Wasalaam

If Ummah can survive one Sunni in one city celebrating eid on one day and a different person in an adjacent city fasting,(and God forbid the person from the first city were to travel to the other, he is absolutely clueless whether to celebrate eid or keep a 31st fast ) then it can certainly survive bohras doing Haj on the day of their choosing.

[Muslim First]

Prof
If Ummah can survive one Sunni in one city celebrating eid on one day and a different person in an adjacent city fasting,(and God forbid the person from the first city were to travel to the other, he is absolutely clueless whether to celebrate eid or keep a 31st fast )

It is true 2 groups start Ramadan on two dates but they never fast for 31 days. It is prohibited.

I am talking about Hujj. WHole Muslim Umma when they are in SA follows Ulems of SA for hujj ritual dates except Rafadis, especially DBs.

[stranger]

If Ummah can survive one Sunni in one city celebrating eid on one day and a different person in an adjacent city fasting,(and God forbid the person from the first city were to travel to the other, he is absolutely clueless whether to celebrate eid or keep a 31st fast ) then it can certainly survive bohras doing Haj on the day of their choosing.

lolzzz

[BlackSaya]

If Ummah can survive one Sunni in one city celebrating eid on one day and a different person in an adjacent city fasting,(and God forbid the person from the first city were to travel to the other, he is absolutely clueless whether to celebrate eid or keep a 31st fast ) then it can certainly survive bohras doing Haj on the day of their choosing.

lolzzz

I dont know why you guys are laughing. Your misri calender is the worst I've seen. It is rarely ever right, and doesn't use any calculations whatsoever, just a set number of dates for each month based on a moon that was sighted 500 years ago.

Perhaps your Dai was too lazy to go to the sabaks and learn high-level math in order to perform more accurate calculations. LOL