The noble souls which rests in peace, who lived with austerity, humility and compassion for mankind. Their graves are decorated with Silver and Gold, How can be justified that this noble and pious personalities wanted these worldly metals on their gravestones ??
Bohra mumin gloat in pride, experiencing grand constructions, facilities and buildings at various dargahs. They have become religious resorts for vacations. I don’t reject the concept of Dargah and Ziyarat, but why spend so so so much of funds in making extravagant resorts around it ?? Instead of making 3 – 5 star hotel types buildings to accommodate Visitors, a humble huge common hall with comfortable and subtle facility for visitors can be built. Providing enough bathrooms, toilets, changing rooms, lockers etc, for comfort of visitors at affordable cost for one and all.
Common rooms provide visitors a chance to mingle with fellow mumins, share space and a sense of togetherness, compassion can be instilled. We live with our families all the times, such visits / trips gives a chance to know others from a different perspective. There can be lot of learning, networking and increase in feeling of brotherhood. A rich and poor coming together, mumin from abroad can interact with mumin from village, we all can grow together in knowledge, compassion, empathy !!
I personally have chosen to stay in common halls whenever I have visited dargahs and every visit my experience with fellow mumins have been really nice, I have met people with different point of views, ambitions, inspirations, compassion, problems, folklores, funny, humorous, achievers, talented, known and unknown !! I had convinced my friends to put up in common hall which they considered below their class, but once we were in, we befriended other youngsters from a remote village and they were in awe of knowing what we had to share, the gizmos, experiences, as if we were a window to another world for them. Similarly we met some elders who gave us another perspective on life, we met some funny and weirdo people, over all every trip was fun !! Except interactions with jamat members, they were pompous, rude and arrogant towards the visitors, their politeness depends on the appearance (Topi, Dhadi, Saya, Kurta quality) of the visitor and Amount of salam !! Top of the rudness was the head of the dargah, The counter clerks observe the visitors and decide which one has to go inside and do salam to the head ponga pandit, depeding on the lucrative salam ponga pandit recommends the room available.
Coming back to the point of Expensive Zaries and Dargah, Why do we need to spend gold, silver and such expensive construction to cover graves stones of pious personalities, we visit the shrines to pay our homage to their sacrifice, martyrdom and contribution. Also take their wasila to please Allah to grant our wishes and needs. This requires simple, normal, humble worship of Allah by reciting Duas, A zaree made of Gold, silver, Stainless Steel, Brass, Aluminum, Chrome, Titanium, Wood, Marble Doesn’t matter !! .. What matters is the faith !!
The extravagant resource expended in making the zarees and resorts around, can be directed to well thought development plans such as world class schools, colleges, Scholarships on merit, Medical Loans / assistance, Seed Capital investments amongst enterprising Bohra Mumin, Vocational Training Insitutes, Cooperative societies to empower men and women.
Note : Experience / Observation stated here are personal. Suggestions are given in good spirit. Any offense is regretted.
Zari of Gold and Silver !! Increases faith ??
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humanbeing
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Hussain_KSA
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Re: Zari of Gold and Silver !! Increases faith ??
Brother Humanbeing,
Welcome to fourm.
Regards
Welcome to fourm.
Regards
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humanbeing
- Posts: 2195
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Re: Zari of Gold and Silver !! Increases faith ??
Dear Hussain
Thanks for the welcome.
DMY
Thanks for the welcome.
DMY
Re: Zari of Gold and Silver !! Increases faith ??
Hello and welcome Sir/madame,
I'll believe you have written all this in good faith, and don't have sinister plans, like to rob us
..
I'm 100% with you about the decorating the graves which is unnecessary, mingling with other mumins with different point of views, ambitions, inspirations, problems, folklores, humorous, achievers, talented, known and unknown..
But I totally disagree with your thought about sharing a common halls and here are my reasons why..
1. Can't share toilets, because of the hygiene.. People have different standards and please don't make me go in details about this..
2. Theft is a problem and will become one, when people of different classes mingle and stay together ..
3. Sleeping difficulty.. Some might snook, others whom will totally ignore, how much noises there children make, and not to forget those who have a problem shutting there mouth and going to bed..
Being in a foreign country and having big plans for the days ahead, and it's nice to have your own little place and get time to reflect over the day..
I'll believe you have written all this in good faith, and don't have sinister plans, like to rob us
.. I'm 100% with you about the decorating the graves which is unnecessary, mingling with other mumins with different point of views, ambitions, inspirations, problems, folklores, humorous, achievers, talented, known and unknown..
But I totally disagree with your thought about sharing a common halls and here are my reasons why..
1. Can't share toilets, because of the hygiene.. People have different standards and please don't make me go in details about this..
2. Theft is a problem and will become one, when people of different classes mingle and stay together ..
3. Sleeping difficulty.. Some might snook, others whom will totally ignore, how much noises there children make, and not to forget those who have a problem shutting there mouth and going to bed..
Being in a foreign country and having big plans for the days ahead, and it's nice to have your own little place and get time to reflect over the day..
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humanbeing
- Posts: 2195
- Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am
Re: Zari of Gold and Silver !! Increases faith ??
Hi Boom
“I'll believe you have written all this in good faith, and don't have sinister plans, like to rob us”
I did not understand this phrase in your post ! Which part of my write-up sounds sinister.
Yes I understand your concern. But I feel that Dargahs are places for short visit, Common Hall is merely a convenience to spend some time. For Vacations we can choose other exotic locales to introspect / retrospect.
“1. Can't share toilets, because of the hygiene.. People have different standards and please don't make me go in details about this..”
Agreed !, I couldn’t write everything in detail. ‘N’ number of bathrooms and toilets can be made, a cleaning staff can be hired to up keep of the toilets, instructions posters can be pasted on walls to maintain discipline, cleanliness and hygiene. A decent fee to cover maintenance cost.
As a decent community we can always strive to educate everyone. Now learning is upto one’s conscience and attitude ! We live in this world of imperfections, We can be little tolerant and also take self care of our hygiene. We are visiting Dargahs for our selfish reasons !
“2. Theft is a problem and will become one, when people of different classes mingle and stay together ..”
Common hall can be provided with Lockers of decent size to hold valubles. Large size Luggage, Baggage can be secured by our own responsibility (Locks, Chains etc). If we maintain humility of our vists to dargahs, we may not be worried of our valuables. After all we go to Dargah to seek peace and relax. Why worry !!
3. Sleeping difficulty.. Some might snook, others whom will totally ignore, how much noises there children make, and not to forget those who have a problem shutting there mouth and going to bed..
Yes, this is one challenge difficult to resolve. I too faced several issues, but I think, we have to be tolerant.. It teaches us patience and humility, Compassion in true sense. Sharing test out human behaviour. We are responsible for our conducts !! On a practical note, we can use eyes flaps, ear plugs to cut out distractions, carry our own bedsheet, blankets, portable pillow for our comforts. For children infant, toddler, teenager, we can teach them to accept difficult conditions, let them experience different views on life at early age. Let them see different people.
My vision of common hall is not some crowded shabby big hall. My imagination is of a well laid, planned and spacious, a architectural marvel, with huge pillars, scenic roofs, streamlined, state of art lockers, bathrooms, toilets, washrooms, changing rooms, soft cushy carpets common hall for men and women respectively. And I don’t assume that everyone shall be stuffed in one common hall, to spread out the influx of visitors, there can be 2 – 3 common halls built and distribute evenly to avoid crowding !
Well we can go on discussing !! but the ones who have the power and resource are not interested. So we can dwell and debate on other issues. I thought It could be relevant to reforms. After all our way of life is the identity of the community !!
“I'll believe you have written all this in good faith, and don't have sinister plans, like to rob us”
I did not understand this phrase in your post ! Which part of my write-up sounds sinister.
Yes I understand your concern. But I feel that Dargahs are places for short visit, Common Hall is merely a convenience to spend some time. For Vacations we can choose other exotic locales to introspect / retrospect.
“1. Can't share toilets, because of the hygiene.. People have different standards and please don't make me go in details about this..”
Agreed !, I couldn’t write everything in detail. ‘N’ number of bathrooms and toilets can be made, a cleaning staff can be hired to up keep of the toilets, instructions posters can be pasted on walls to maintain discipline, cleanliness and hygiene. A decent fee to cover maintenance cost.
As a decent community we can always strive to educate everyone. Now learning is upto one’s conscience and attitude ! We live in this world of imperfections, We can be little tolerant and also take self care of our hygiene. We are visiting Dargahs for our selfish reasons !
“2. Theft is a problem and will become one, when people of different classes mingle and stay together ..”
Common hall can be provided with Lockers of decent size to hold valubles. Large size Luggage, Baggage can be secured by our own responsibility (Locks, Chains etc). If we maintain humility of our vists to dargahs, we may not be worried of our valuables. After all we go to Dargah to seek peace and relax. Why worry !!
3. Sleeping difficulty.. Some might snook, others whom will totally ignore, how much noises there children make, and not to forget those who have a problem shutting there mouth and going to bed..
Yes, this is one challenge difficult to resolve. I too faced several issues, but I think, we have to be tolerant.. It teaches us patience and humility, Compassion in true sense. Sharing test out human behaviour. We are responsible for our conducts !! On a practical note, we can use eyes flaps, ear plugs to cut out distractions, carry our own bedsheet, blankets, portable pillow for our comforts. For children infant, toddler, teenager, we can teach them to accept difficult conditions, let them experience different views on life at early age. Let them see different people.
My vision of common hall is not some crowded shabby big hall. My imagination is of a well laid, planned and spacious, a architectural marvel, with huge pillars, scenic roofs, streamlined, state of art lockers, bathrooms, toilets, washrooms, changing rooms, soft cushy carpets common hall for men and women respectively. And I don’t assume that everyone shall be stuffed in one common hall, to spread out the influx of visitors, there can be 2 – 3 common halls built and distribute evenly to avoid crowding !
Well we can go on discussing !! but the ones who have the power and resource are not interested. So we can dwell and debate on other issues. I thought It could be relevant to reforms. After all our way of life is the identity of the community !!
Re: Zari of Gold and Silver !! Increases faith ??
Br. Humanbeing
What you described about common hall, well it is being practiced by Muslim Ummah, while performing Hajj, you do share a common tent during stay in Mina.
What you described about common hall, well it is being practiced by Muslim Ummah, while performing Hajj, you do share a common tent during stay in Mina.
Re: Zari of Gold and Silver !! Increases faith ??
Hello Humanbeing,
I see you didn't get my jokehumanbeing wrote:Hi Boom
“I'll believe you have written all this in good faith, and don't have sinister plans, like to rob us”
I did not understand this phrase in your post ! Which part of my write-up sounds sinister.
Yes , I agree with you, that dargahs are for short visit but this is also a vacations for many.. I doubt, the common bohras has neither the time or the money to afford a vacation to a exotic place..humanbeing wrote:Yes I understand your concern. But I feel that Dargahs are places for short visit, Common Hall is merely a convenience to spend some time. For Vacations we can choose other exotic locales to introspect / retrospect.
We can make all kinds of rules and instructions, but this community will never learn.. A fine example is the toilets in our mosque.., and when this people can't keep them clean, how do you expect they are going to do any better in those halls your talking about??humanbeing wrote: “1. Can't share toilets, because of the hygiene.. People have different standards and please don't make me go in details about this..”
Agreed !, I couldn’t write everything in detail. ‘N’ number of bathrooms and toilets can be made, a cleaning staff can be hired to up keep of the toilets, instructions posters can be pasted on walls to maintain discipline, cleanliness and hygiene. A decent fee to cover maintenance cost.
I agree with everything you have said above, apart from we are not a decent community, but a barbaric one..humanbeing wrote:As a decent community we can always strive to educate everyone. Now learning is upto one’s conscience and attitude ! We live in this world of imperfections, We can be little tolerant and also take self care of our hygiene. We are visiting Dargahs for our selfish reasons !
Why should I go in all this trouble, when I could just lock my room and don't have to worry about any of the above you have mentioned .. It's as simple as that..humanbeing wrote: “2. Theft is a problem and will become one, when people of different classes mingle and stay together ..”
Common hall can be provided with Lockers of decent size to hold valubles. Large size Luggage, Baggage can be secured by our own responsibility (Locks, Chains etc). If we maintain humility of our vists to dargahs, we may not be worried of our valuables. After all we go to Dargah to seek peace and relax. Why worry !!
Why should we go into all that trouble, when we could avoid all this, by having our own rooms?? I have no need to test my tolerance with ignorant and backwards people by sleeping/sharing with them..humanbeing wrote: 3. Sleeping difficulty.. Some might snook, others whom will totally ignore, how much noises there children make, and not to forget those who have a problem shutting there mouth and going to bed..
Yes, this is one challenge difficult to resolve. I too faced several issues, but I think, we have to be tolerant.. It teaches us patience and humility, Compassion in true sense. Sharing test out human behaviour. We are responsible for our conducts !! On a practical note, we can use eyes flaps, ear plugs to cut out distractions, carry our own bedsheet, blankets, portable pillow for our comforts. For children infant, toddler, teenager, we can teach them to accept difficult conditions, let them experience different views on life at early age. Let them see different people.
Re: Zari of Gold and Silver !! Increases faith ??
Humanbeing,
You expect this people not to steal, behave with compassion, humility, patience, tolerant and respect one another, when this people even can't show none of those character to each other in the mosque?? Most of the abdes are very aggressive, egoist, ill mannered and the hygiene is something I really don't want to get into and you know why..
I don't know, if you are aware of this problem, but this people will even not leave those shoes/sandals you had on your way to prayers and you expect us to believe you that, this people are not going to steal from those halls your talking about??
Now don't tell me, it's my own fault for wearing normal sandals to mosque, when I should have gone bearfooted right??
You expect this people not to steal, behave with compassion, humility, patience, tolerant and respect one another, when this people even can't show none of those character to each other in the mosque?? Most of the abdes are very aggressive, egoist, ill mannered and the hygiene is something I really don't want to get into and you know why..
I don't know, if you are aware of this problem, but this people will even not leave those shoes/sandals you had on your way to prayers and you expect us to believe you that, this people are not going to steal from those halls your talking about??
Now don't tell me, it's my own fault for wearing normal sandals to mosque, when I should have gone bearfooted right??
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humanbeing
- Posts: 2195
- Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:30 am
Re: Zari of Gold and Silver !! Increases faith ??
@OB : Thanks for your support. It would be easier to share common facilities during Hajj, one is caring bare minimum valubles.
@ Boom : I agree with your POV also. But all fingers are not same. I too faced embarrassing, uncomfortable situations few times, Just that I don’t remember them. I keep only good memories. But your points are also valid. It’s a human nature or sad truth, we have to accept it. Well then, its better to have 3 star hotel facility at Dargah resorts, what I suggested is just a wishful thinking. But you agree right ?? That Zari made of Gold & Silver is no good !!
Regarding Chappal Chori from outside masjids and markaz !! I m sooooo cheeeesed off . pissed off and feel sick about it !! I totally agree with you ! I have lost many, I don’t promote this chappal chori at any cost. I have walked back bare footed be it rain, winter or sweltering summer !! This issue is also one serious reform Bohri Community needs to bring. I mean we are not so poor, that cant afford a chappal !! Its sheer laziness and “Kaminapan” to walk away wearing someone else’s footwear not giving a thought of inconvenience it would cause.
I was so irritated once, that I spoke to a Sheikh and told him to take up this matter with higher-ups, I also told him with a hint of taunt and sarcasm to convey this problem to Sayedna saheb to issue a farman to maintain discipline and refrain from Chappal Chori !! Then only ardent chappal chor bohri’s will listen and comply.
@ Boom : I agree with your POV also. But all fingers are not same. I too faced embarrassing, uncomfortable situations few times, Just that I don’t remember them. I keep only good memories. But your points are also valid. It’s a human nature or sad truth, we have to accept it. Well then, its better to have 3 star hotel facility at Dargah resorts, what I suggested is just a wishful thinking. But you agree right ?? That Zari made of Gold & Silver is no good !!
Regarding Chappal Chori from outside masjids and markaz !! I m sooooo cheeeesed off . pissed off and feel sick about it !! I totally agree with you ! I have lost many, I don’t promote this chappal chori at any cost. I have walked back bare footed be it rain, winter or sweltering summer !! This issue is also one serious reform Bohri Community needs to bring. I mean we are not so poor, that cant afford a chappal !! Its sheer laziness and “Kaminapan” to walk away wearing someone else’s footwear not giving a thought of inconvenience it would cause.
I was so irritated once, that I spoke to a Sheikh and told him to take up this matter with higher-ups, I also told him with a hint of taunt and sarcasm to convey this problem to Sayedna saheb to issue a farman to maintain discipline and refrain from Chappal Chori !! Then only ardent chappal chor bohri’s will listen and comply.
Re: Zari of Gold and Silver !! Increases faith ??
Hello Humanbeing,
The way I see it, we see eye to eye on most of the things we've discussed, and we disagreed on very small details
And I hope you didn't get me wrong about your vision, which I like.. I'm quite similar like you and love to mingle with others and like to know, the unknown.. But at the end of the day, I must have my own little place to put all the bits and pieces I've picked during the day.. I don't know, but maybe, I'm to westernized 
Regarding the Zari's made of gold & silver.. It's waste of wealth, and it can't be good for the soul neither, to go and worship someone's grave and spend all that money on dead people.. All I've really seen (in Cairo) was, people kissing gold and silver and chanting, those pious persons name, who were against such things..
I have to salute you, for not continuing the evil & vicious cycle of stealing chappal..
It's been many, many years ago, I've lost my chappal hehe
I don't know, why they don't start having lockers for shoes, because I've seen another trend of caring/taking the shoes/sandals/chappal in the mosque, which can't be a good thing really..
One comes to the mosque in good faith to worship Almighty Allah, on his way out, the devil has sett up a trap, to lure us in this vicious cycle of stealing chappal from one another, make us evildoer
The way I see it, we see eye to eye on most of the things we've discussed, and we disagreed on very small details
And I hope you didn't get me wrong about your vision, which I like.. I'm quite similar like you and love to mingle with others and like to know, the unknown.. But at the end of the day, I must have my own little place to put all the bits and pieces I've picked during the day.. I don't know, but maybe, I'm to westernized Regarding the Zari's made of gold & silver.. It's waste of wealth, and it can't be good for the soul neither, to go and worship someone's grave and spend all that money on dead people.. All I've really seen (in Cairo) was, people kissing gold and silver and chanting, those pious persons name, who were against such things..
I have to salute you, for not continuing the evil & vicious cycle of stealing chappal..
It's been many, many years ago, I've lost my chappal hehe
I don't know, why they don't start having lockers for shoes, because I've seen another trend of caring/taking the shoes/sandals/chappal in the mosque, which can't be a good thing really.. One comes to the mosque in good faith to worship Almighty Allah, on his way out, the devil has sett up a trap, to lure us in this vicious cycle of stealing chappal from one another, make us evildoer
Re: Zari of Gold and Silver !! Increases faith ??
They have decided for us what to wear in the masjids.Why not buy shoes and chappals for the poor.They collect enough from inside the mosque.How about pay your zakat with foot wear for your unfortunate brothers.If you loose your chappals ,give cheerfully.If I had to steal chappals from a house of God,I would not be happy about it.We all are guilty of spending our zakat money in the wrong place.
Safaie chitthe will not get us to promise land.Only our deeds.
Safaie chitthe will not get us to promise land.Only our deeds.