How do you think children should be taught Islam? What concepts should be taught to them, and at what age do you think children should start learning about God, etc. ?
I think the education of children, and the control over their minds starting at a very young age has a lot to do with why the Bohra clergy and most other clergy of other sects have such a tight control on the community. Maybe a new approach to how parents teach their children about religion should be thought up.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
sh
Teaching children about Islam
Re: Teaching children about Islam
Well maybe the children should be taught about Islam more and about the Dai less.
Re: Teaching children about Islam
That is only if you want them them to be harmful and misguided, as opposed to harmless and misguided.
If you truly mean a new approach teach them the universal right and wrong, existence of a higher being, expose them to various religions (mosque, church, temple, etc.) and respect their choice when they mature and guide them if they stray from the universal right and wrong, but not from a particular belief.
If you truly mean a new approach teach them the universal right and wrong, existence of a higher being, expose them to various religions (mosque, church, temple, etc.) and respect their choice when they mature and guide them if they stray from the universal right and wrong, but not from a particular belief.
Re: Teaching children about Islam
That is only if you want them them to be harmful and misguided, as opposed to harmless and misguided.
Sad but true.
If you truly mean a new approach teach them the universal right and wrong, existence of a higher being, expose them to various religions (mosque, church, temple, etc.) and respect their choice when they mature and guide them if they stray from the universal right and wrong, but not from a particular belief.
There were a bunch of people my age that I was talking to at this convention – I distinctly remember two of them saying that the Jewish God and the Christian God were not the same God as the Muslim God, and that anyone that believed so was going to hell (I’m talking about kids who are in their Mid-twenties to early thirties, so they really can’t claim childhood ignorance). That struck me as total idiocy because if one was to believe in the Quran (and actually read it) then one would know that the Muslim God was the very same God as the Christian and Hebrew one. Shows you how little they know about their “own” religion, never mind “other” religions.
I think if parents are smart, they’ll teach their children to question everything – especially things that people throw at them in the form of “objective truths.” I think we should teach children about religion in a structured manner – first start off with what is considered right and wrong up until the age of 10+ or so, because I don’t think children can really appreciate the concept of a higher being until they have seen the world and have had various experiences. Obviously children will hear about “God” from kids in school and such – but that doesn’t happen to often unless you go to a catholic school or something. Then after the child has grown up – teach the children about a higher being that so many people believe in and show them that all cultures, everywhere in the world – at one point or an other has had a belief in a higher being. Then start showing them the different houses of worship, etc. and then explain to them why Islam (or any other religion for that matter) is what you have chosen as religion (or have reaffirmed it even though you have been born into it).
Also I think parents should answer questions truthfully – and not tell little lies to avoid actually explaining to the child the truth of the matter. (i.e. don’t explain away thunder as – “God is up in heaven and he’s mad” )
sh
Sad but true.
If you truly mean a new approach teach them the universal right and wrong, existence of a higher being, expose them to various religions (mosque, church, temple, etc.) and respect their choice when they mature and guide them if they stray from the universal right and wrong, but not from a particular belief.
There were a bunch of people my age that I was talking to at this convention – I distinctly remember two of them saying that the Jewish God and the Christian God were not the same God as the Muslim God, and that anyone that believed so was going to hell (I’m talking about kids who are in their Mid-twenties to early thirties, so they really can’t claim childhood ignorance). That struck me as total idiocy because if one was to believe in the Quran (and actually read it) then one would know that the Muslim God was the very same God as the Christian and Hebrew one. Shows you how little they know about their “own” religion, never mind “other” religions.
I think if parents are smart, they’ll teach their children to question everything – especially things that people throw at them in the form of “objective truths.” I think we should teach children about religion in a structured manner – first start off with what is considered right and wrong up until the age of 10+ or so, because I don’t think children can really appreciate the concept of a higher being until they have seen the world and have had various experiences. Obviously children will hear about “God” from kids in school and such – but that doesn’t happen to often unless you go to a catholic school or something. Then after the child has grown up – teach the children about a higher being that so many people believe in and show them that all cultures, everywhere in the world – at one point or an other has had a belief in a higher being. Then start showing them the different houses of worship, etc. and then explain to them why Islam (or any other religion for that matter) is what you have chosen as religion (or have reaffirmed it even though you have been born into it).
Also I think parents should answer questions truthfully – and not tell little lies to avoid actually explaining to the child the truth of the matter. (i.e. don’t explain away thunder as – “God is up in heaven and he’s mad” )
sh
Re: Teaching children about Islam
True, but as I re-read our posts I realize how difficult it would be to really enforce them in the real world.
A relevant lyric from "The Only Child" by Jackson Browne
Boy of mine
As your fortune comes to carry you down the line
And you watch as the changes unfold
And you sort among the stories you've been told
If some pieces of the picture are hard to find
And the answers to your questions are hard to hold
Take good care of your mother
When you're making up your mind
Should one thing or another take you from behind
Though the world may make you hard and wild
And determine how your life is styled
When you've come to feel that you're the only child
Take good care of your brother
Let the disappointments pass
Let the laughter fill your glass
Let your illusions last until they shatter
Whatever you might hope to find
Among the thoughts that crowd your mind
There won't be many that ever really matter
But take good care of your mother
And remember to be kind
When the pain of another will serve you to remind
That there are those who feel themselves exiled
On whom the fortune never smiled
And upon whose life the heartache has been piled
They're just looking for another
Lonely child
And when you've found another soul
Who sees into your own
Take good care of each other
(c) 1976 SWALLOW TURN MUSIC
A relevant lyric from "The Only Child" by Jackson Browne
Boy of mine
As your fortune comes to carry you down the line
And you watch as the changes unfold
And you sort among the stories you've been told
If some pieces of the picture are hard to find
And the answers to your questions are hard to hold
Take good care of your mother
When you're making up your mind
Should one thing or another take you from behind
Though the world may make you hard and wild
And determine how your life is styled
When you've come to feel that you're the only child
Take good care of your brother
Let the disappointments pass
Let the laughter fill your glass
Let your illusions last until they shatter
Whatever you might hope to find
Among the thoughts that crowd your mind
There won't be many that ever really matter
But take good care of your mother
And remember to be kind
When the pain of another will serve you to remind
That there are those who feel themselves exiled
On whom the fortune never smiled
And upon whose life the heartache has been piled
They're just looking for another
Lonely child
And when you've found another soul
Who sees into your own
Take good care of each other
(c) 1976 SWALLOW TURN MUSIC
Re: Teaching children about Islam
The level of ignorance that you guys demonstrate as far as islam is concerned borders on insanity.
Teaching of Islam does not make people harmful and misguided. That is what people who are misguided think and want others to think.
Muslims are the most peaceful people on earth. However, they can oppose oppression more vehemantly than any other and rightfully so. These oppressors ought to have their back sides kicked. But hey, the guided folks on this board want muslims to give up everything they have, live as refugees, give up their homes but kill/ fight, they should not.
Sad but true.
And forget about non-muslims, what is even worse is that it is coming from so called muslims!!
More sad but true.
The Noble Quran v2:114
"And who is more unjust than those who forbid that Allâh's Name be glorified and mentioned much (i.e. prayers and invocations, etc.) in Allâh's Mosques and strive for their ruin? It was not fitting that such should themselves enter them (Allâh's Mosques) except in fear. For them there is disgrace in this world, and they will have a great torment in the Hereafter."
v2:190
"And fight in the Way of Allâh[] those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allâh likes not the transgressors."
v9:38
"O you who believe! What is the matter with you, that when you are asked to march forth in the Cause of Allâh (i.e. Jihâd) you cling heavily to the earth? Are you pleased with the life of this world rather than the Hereafter? But little is the enjoyment of the life of this world as compared with the Hereafter"
Teaching of Islam does not make people harmful and misguided. That is what people who are misguided think and want others to think.
Muslims are the most peaceful people on earth. However, they can oppose oppression more vehemantly than any other and rightfully so. These oppressors ought to have their back sides kicked. But hey, the guided folks on this board want muslims to give up everything they have, live as refugees, give up their homes but kill/ fight, they should not.
Sad but true.
And forget about non-muslims, what is even worse is that it is coming from so called muslims!!
More sad but true.
The Noble Quran v2:114
"And who is more unjust than those who forbid that Allâh's Name be glorified and mentioned much (i.e. prayers and invocations, etc.) in Allâh's Mosques and strive for their ruin? It was not fitting that such should themselves enter them (Allâh's Mosques) except in fear. For them there is disgrace in this world, and they will have a great torment in the Hereafter."
v2:190
"And fight in the Way of Allâh[] those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allâh likes not the transgressors."
v9:38
"O you who believe! What is the matter with you, that when you are asked to march forth in the Cause of Allâh (i.e. Jihâd) you cling heavily to the earth? Are you pleased with the life of this world rather than the Hereafter? But little is the enjoyment of the life of this world as compared with the Hereafter"
Re: Teaching children about Islam
You are way off topic.
Wait a minute, I get it, they are too busy diving planes into commercial buildings in another country !
Get real....
There you go again. Based on what ? Back it up.Muslims are the most peaceful people on earth
Again, facts prove otherwise. Muslims are oppressed in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, & Jordan to name a few. Where is this vehement opposition ?they can oppose oppression more vehemantly than any other and rightfully so.
Wait a minute, I get it, they are too busy diving planes into commercial buildings in another country !
Get real....
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Teaching children about Islam
.
It would be good idea if Islamic organizations started something like "Peace Core" so young Muslim American can go to Muslim countries and do some volunteer work.
.
It would be good idea if Islamic organizations started something like "Peace Core" so young Muslim American can go to Muslim countries and do some volunteer work.
.
Re: Teaching children about Islam
Br Muslim First,
It would be good idea if Islamic organizations started something like "Peace Core" so young Muslim American can go to Muslim countries and do some volunteer work.
I agree, but I’m afraid of kind of work these Islamic Organizations are going to sponsor. I’ve personally lost my trust in these big “Islamic Organizations” because we can never be sure what causes they want to help and I don’t doubt that some of them have been funneling money to Jihadi outfits in these Middle Eastern countries, just like I don’t doubt that the IDRF has been funneling money to the VHP and the Bajrang Dal to fuel communal tensions in India. I say that if a person wants to help out – they should go to their country of choice and get involved at the grass roots on an individual basis. Maybe even start up a progressive youth based newsletter or something. I think we need more people like Dr. Engineer who feel that things need to be changed and are working in their own way to create that change.
Br. Anajmi,
The level of ignorance that you guys demonstrate as far as islam is concerned borders on insanity.
Being the prolific writer that you are on this message board – I’m surprised that you still haven’t learned how to provide a just basis for your arguments.
sh
It would be good idea if Islamic organizations started something like "Peace Core" so young Muslim American can go to Muslim countries and do some volunteer work.
I agree, but I’m afraid of kind of work these Islamic Organizations are going to sponsor. I’ve personally lost my trust in these big “Islamic Organizations” because we can never be sure what causes they want to help and I don’t doubt that some of them have been funneling money to Jihadi outfits in these Middle Eastern countries, just like I don’t doubt that the IDRF has been funneling money to the VHP and the Bajrang Dal to fuel communal tensions in India. I say that if a person wants to help out – they should go to their country of choice and get involved at the grass roots on an individual basis. Maybe even start up a progressive youth based newsletter or something. I think we need more people like Dr. Engineer who feel that things need to be changed and are working in their own way to create that change.
Br. Anajmi,
The level of ignorance that you guys demonstrate as far as islam is concerned borders on insanity.
Being the prolific writer that you are on this message board – I’m surprised that you still haven’t learned how to provide a just basis for your arguments.
sh
Re: Teaching children about Islam
Muslim First,
Barwani started this thread off with a new approach to how parents teach their children about religion should be thought up.
I am trying to understand how sending children to Muslim countries to experience oppression, public executions, lack of basic human or religious rights, and humiliating treatment of women be considered as education, let alone a new approach ?
What is equally striking is that you only refer to young Muslim American which leads me to believe that you are satisfied with the teachings of Muslims in other countries (?)
Awaiting your response since you seem to be applying your apparent vast knowledge of Islam to only refute the Bohra belief.
Barwani started this thread off with a new approach to how parents teach their children about religion should be thought up.
I am trying to understand how sending children to Muslim countries to experience oppression, public executions, lack of basic human or religious rights, and humiliating treatment of women be considered as education, let alone a new approach ?
What is equally striking is that you only refer to young Muslim American which leads me to believe that you are satisfied with the teachings of Muslims in other countries (?)
Awaiting your response since you seem to be applying your apparent vast knowledge of Islam to only refute the Bohra belief.
Re: Teaching children about Islam
Muddai,
Barwani started this thread off with a new approach to how parents teach their children about religion should be thought up.
I am trying to understand how sending children to Muslim countries to experience oppression, public executions, lack of basic human or religious rights, and humiliating treatment of women be considered as education, let alone a new approach ?
What is equally striking is that you only refer to young Muslim American which leads me to believe that you are satisfied with the teachings of Muslims in other countries (?)
Even though I agree with you that there is no point in sending kids to these countries, unless of course they are going there to do research or a field study…or something else on a individual basis… I don’t think that MF meant it in that way. I think he just wanted to throw and idea out there and see what others thought of it.
But I get this feeling that most Muslims don’t think that there is anything wrong with how Muslim kids are being taught … they actually think its working because more and more girls are wearing hijabs and more guys are growing beards. And all they do to support their claim is to quote a hadith or a cut up verse from the Quran.
sh
Barwani started this thread off with a new approach to how parents teach their children about religion should be thought up.
I am trying to understand how sending children to Muslim countries to experience oppression, public executions, lack of basic human or religious rights, and humiliating treatment of women be considered as education, let alone a new approach ?
What is equally striking is that you only refer to young Muslim American which leads me to believe that you are satisfied with the teachings of Muslims in other countries (?)
Even though I agree with you that there is no point in sending kids to these countries, unless of course they are going there to do research or a field study…or something else on a individual basis… I don’t think that MF meant it in that way. I think he just wanted to throw and idea out there and see what others thought of it.
But I get this feeling that most Muslims don’t think that there is anything wrong with how Muslim kids are being taught … they actually think its working because more and more girls are wearing hijabs and more guys are growing beards. And all they do to support their claim is to quote a hadith or a cut up verse from the Quran.
sh
Re: Teaching children about Islam
Barwani,
I agree with your post, but I would rather hear from Muslim First if he meant it in that way otherwise it would be speculation.
Appreciate the interpretation though...looking forward to MF's response.
I agree with your post, but I would rather hear from Muslim First if he meant it in that way otherwise it would be speculation.
Appreciate the interpretation though...looking forward to MF's response.
Re: Teaching children about Islam
> they actually think its working because more and more girls are wearing hijabs and more guys are growing beards. And all they do to support their claim is to quote a hadith or a cut up verse from the Quran.
Herein lies at least a part of my problem with ritual. People who perform rituals make a show of piety. That show can have a purpose, such as affirming one's relation with a particular community or belief system. However, you run into trouble when you have people who mistake ritual for religion, because then the spirit behind and the intent of the ritual is lost. Christ criticizes the Pharisees for this in the Bible, but I think it is a timeless criticism of religion in general.
Perhaps one thing that can be done is to teach children that it is the spirit of the ritual, and not the ritual itself, that is important. The ritual aims to teach a lesson, and that lesson is the goal. Perhaps if people understood this, they wouldn't be so quick to deliver death and judgement upon those who did not satisfy their own need for ritual.
Herein lies at least a part of my problem with ritual. People who perform rituals make a show of piety. That show can have a purpose, such as affirming one's relation with a particular community or belief system. However, you run into trouble when you have people who mistake ritual for religion, because then the spirit behind and the intent of the ritual is lost. Christ criticizes the Pharisees for this in the Bible, but I think it is a timeless criticism of religion in general.
Perhaps one thing that can be done is to teach children that it is the spirit of the ritual, and not the ritual itself, that is important. The ritual aims to teach a lesson, and that lesson is the goal. Perhaps if people understood this, they wouldn't be so quick to deliver death and judgement upon those who did not satisfy their own need for ritual.
Re: Teaching children about Islam
An example of false teaching even in the US.
I attended a sunni mosque in the US for a while for salat. After getting acquaintated with many of the muslims...I gathered a general type of ethos. For instance, on marriage...muslims can marry up to four wives. Almost every muslim who was taught in that mosque believed this. They knew nothing of the rest of the ayat or the requirements involve...just that muslims can marry up to four wives. Many had two wives...most wanted more...even though none of these brothers could support equitably the ones they have or their families.
Sadly, this is also the majority belief in muslims countries as well.
[4.3] And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.
I attended a sunni mosque in the US for a while for salat. After getting acquaintated with many of the muslims...I gathered a general type of ethos. For instance, on marriage...muslims can marry up to four wives. Almost every muslim who was taught in that mosque believed this. They knew nothing of the rest of the ayat or the requirements involve...just that muslims can marry up to four wives. Many had two wives...most wanted more...even though none of these brothers could support equitably the ones they have or their families.
Sadly, this is also the majority belief in muslims countries as well.
[4.3] And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.
Re: Teaching children about Islam
br. barwani,
here is the justification for my comment: You do not know whether god is a he or a she even though he tells you in the quran what he is. Then you do not know whether God is a one or many (I/us) even though God tells repeatedly in the quran that he is the one and only.
Surah 112:1
"Say (O Muhammad (Peace be upon him)): "He is Allâh, (the) One.[] "
So are you ignorant about islam or not??
here is the justification for my comment: You do not know whether god is a he or a she even though he tells you in the quran what he is. Then you do not know whether God is a one or many (I/us) even though God tells repeatedly in the quran that he is the one and only.
Surah 112:1
"Say (O Muhammad (Peace be upon him)): "He is Allâh, (the) One.[] "
So are you ignorant about islam or not??
Re: Teaching children about Islam
Muddai,
Muslims are the most peaceful people on earth. Take my word for it.
Muslims are the most peaceful people on earth. Take my word for it.
Back it up.Again, facts prove otherwise. Muslims are oppressed in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, & Jordan to name a few. Where is this vehement opposition ?
Re: Teaching children about Islam
br. barwani,
And I think most muslims think that there is something wrong with how the muslim kids are being taught, otherwise we wouldn't be haivng muslims doubting the word of Allah.
If a muslim can back up his claim from the quran or hadith, he does not need anything else.But I get this feeling that most Muslims don’t think that there is anything wrong with how Muslim kids are being taught … they actually think its working because more and more girls are wearing hijabs and more guys are growing beards. And all they do to support their claim is to quote a hadith or a cut up verse from the Quran.
And I think most muslims think that there is something wrong with how the muslim kids are being taught, otherwise we wouldn't be haivng muslims doubting the word of Allah.
Re: Teaching children about Islam
forgive me muddai,
that should've been "having" and not "haivng"
that should've been "having" and not "haivng"
Re: Teaching children about Islam
> If a muslim can back up his claim from the quran or hadith, he does not need anything else.
anajmi,
the problem with this reasoning is that, as we have seen, people can convince themselves of anything and use the qur'an and the hadith to support their opinions. People are more inclined to see support for what they want to believe than to force themselves to believe something they do not want to be true...
There may be sure guidance in the hereafter, but what are we to do about the here and NOW?
anajmi,
the problem with this reasoning is that, as we have seen, people can convince themselves of anything and use the qur'an and the hadith to support their opinions. People are more inclined to see support for what they want to believe than to force themselves to believe something they do not want to be true...
There may be sure guidance in the hereafter, but what are we to do about the here and NOW?
Re: Teaching children about Islam
khairan,
people can sure do that. What do you propose we do about it? There have always been and always will be people like that. We have to make sure that we are not like them.
Allah has given us sense that we can apply and figure out for ourselves what is right and what is not.
Whatever people do with the quran or the hadith, they will have to answer for it in the hereafter and whatever you and I do with it, we will have to answer for it in the hereafter.
If you begin with the premise that every person who talks about the quran and hadith is in this category, then I am afraid all is lost for you.
Remember, not all of us are going to have a great and peaceful life, most of us will not, no matter how strong our belief is, that is the destiny, that is the emphasis in the quran. Worry not about here and NOW but about the hereafter.
All we are doing over here is finding fault with everything that is Islamic. If one does not believe that the quran or the hadith can answer his questions, then he is not a muslim. Accept the fact and move on with life.
people can sure do that. What do you propose we do about it? There have always been and always will be people like that. We have to make sure that we are not like them.
Allah has given us sense that we can apply and figure out for ourselves what is right and what is not.
Whatever people do with the quran or the hadith, they will have to answer for it in the hereafter and whatever you and I do with it, we will have to answer for it in the hereafter.
If you begin with the premise that every person who talks about the quran and hadith is in this category, then I am afraid all is lost for you.
Remember, not all of us are going to have a great and peaceful life, most of us will not, no matter how strong our belief is, that is the destiny, that is the emphasis in the quran. Worry not about here and NOW but about the hereafter.
All we are doing over here is finding fault with everything that is Islamic. If one does not believe that the quran or the hadith can answer his questions, then he is not a muslim. Accept the fact and move on with life.
Re: Teaching children about Islam
> If you begin with the premise that every person who talks about the quran and hadith is in this category
anajmi,
I must say that I do begin with this premise, but don't misunderstand me; I am not trying to say that everyone is maliciously trying to warp religion to meet their own ends.
What I am saying is that people will go to great lengths to fit something like religion with their world view. It is certainly a circular process, in which religion molds personal opinion but in which personal bias also shapes the understanding of religion.
For instance, you and I have disagreed on issues of human evolution and the status of non-Muslims in the hereafter. Both of us believe that scripture supports our opinions, and interpret the same information in completely different ways. Both of us are also Muslims.
My contention is that it would at best be unobjective for someone to claim that their understanding of religion is totally unbiased by their environment and their own sentiments, and my point is that it is not enough to say, as you have, that as long as one can draw support from tradition or scripture to support their opinion they are justified in having it. That may be fine on a personal level, but on a societal level it leads to the sort of lunacy that causes innocent women to be murdered for not adhering to someone else's standards.
salaam
anajmi,
I must say that I do begin with this premise, but don't misunderstand me; I am not trying to say that everyone is maliciously trying to warp religion to meet their own ends.
What I am saying is that people will go to great lengths to fit something like religion with their world view. It is certainly a circular process, in which religion molds personal opinion but in which personal bias also shapes the understanding of religion.
For instance, you and I have disagreed on issues of human evolution and the status of non-Muslims in the hereafter. Both of us believe that scripture supports our opinions, and interpret the same information in completely different ways. Both of us are also Muslims.
My contention is that it would at best be unobjective for someone to claim that their understanding of religion is totally unbiased by their environment and their own sentiments, and my point is that it is not enough to say, as you have, that as long as one can draw support from tradition or scripture to support their opinion they are justified in having it. That may be fine on a personal level, but on a societal level it leads to the sort of lunacy that causes innocent women to be murdered for not adhering to someone else's standards.
salaam
Re: Teaching children about Islam
khairan,
The knowledge that you and I possess is not perfect. So in certain cases I may be wrong and in certain cases, you may be wrong.
The best thing for me to do is to give you the opportunity to prove that I am wrong from the hadith and the quran. If the hadith and quran do not throw light on the subject then go with jurisprudence. If that too does not come up with a solution then figure out if it contradicts the teachings of the hadith or the quran. If not then you haven't proven me wrong.
As far as the people who are beheading the women, they can try to justify their acts from the quran and hadith but I am sure they will not be able to.
And I would like to give meaning to this discussion by discussing two points that you mentioned, status of non-muslims in the hereafter and human evolution. Let us see if we can come to a conclusion, but over here let us agree that by the end of the discussion one of us will change our stance. I am willing to do that. Are you? If you are, then please let me know what your views are.
The knowledge that you and I possess is not perfect. So in certain cases I may be wrong and in certain cases, you may be wrong.
The best thing for me to do is to give you the opportunity to prove that I am wrong from the hadith and the quran. If the hadith and quran do not throw light on the subject then go with jurisprudence. If that too does not come up with a solution then figure out if it contradicts the teachings of the hadith or the quran. If not then you haven't proven me wrong.
As far as the people who are beheading the women, they can try to justify their acts from the quran and hadith but I am sure they will not be able to.
And I would like to give meaning to this discussion by discussing two points that you mentioned, status of non-muslims in the hereafter and human evolution. Let us see if we can come to a conclusion, but over here let us agree that by the end of the discussion one of us will change our stance. I am willing to do that. Are you? If you are, then please let me know what your views are.
Re: Teaching children about Islam
And I am willing to change my stance because I believe that you will not be using the quran and hadith in a way you claim others do.