Bohra practices, can they be discarded altogether

[asad]

Bohras differ from other Muslims on many counts, culturally they have adopted few practices which are against the core of Islamic shariyat or practice or Sunnah of Prophet. Few practices are an alteration or an addition to the established Shariyat and as such that they dont violet the basic Islamic Shariyat but are an addition, now how much alteration is allowed and what can be discarded. Bohras have an easy way out on maximum questions on their practices that they were either practiced by their Imams or Duats but no one quotes Prophet to do the same.

few examples.
1) Duas recited in Wudu, if not recited is Wudu void?
2) While in Qiyam in Salat Bohras put out their hands loose whereas maximum Muslims put it below chest.
3) Gap between legs while standing in qirat.
4) Saying Ameen loudly after Surah Fateha
5) Offering Salat really very fast whereas the accepted practice is to offer it slow and with concentration. I have asked few why this hurry and cant believe the answer that Ali used to offer it this way(and then they say stories of pulling out arrows while Ali was in salat to show his concentration).
6) Duas recited with waseela of their Imams after the salaat.
7) different washeks.

[asad]

Dear Asad ,

As per Prophet Mohammed (PBUH), there will be 72 firkas of Islam Inshallah - can you bring out the differences of the existing ones - how they pray ? wudu ? washeks ?? so why only Bohras ?

My Parents are Bohras and i was raised as a Bohra so i have all the right to question the practices.

Do you have a pictures of how Prophet prayed ?? do u have a leader who can guide you ?? or you just pray how people are doing it and you do it ??

Normal people if they dont indulge in human worship and have hadeeth to support on how Prophet prayed than why not follow them than a leader who lives on my handouts and indulges and encourages shirk.

the actions while praying are all passed by those who had prayed and seen how prophet prayed and then they have spread Islam.

actions of Bohras dont allign to sahabas but to their Imams and Dais who have not seen how the prophet prayed,

We are followers of Prophet (and his closest ) Imam Ali - Imam Hussain and now their DAIs - Inshallah we cant be wrong, we follow what they have done and we are sure our Ibadat is not wasted.

Your Ibadat is wasted when you follow people in the name of Prophet and Ali when they have never asked any such thing to do.

75% of the muslim in world except dawoodi bohra doesnt know the proper meaning of WUDU - they wud even do wudu on sleeves , socks, gloves etc - lol which is the funniest thing ever.

are Bohras 25% of total Muslim population? Funniest thing is Bohras and their customs and practices in the name of Islam.

we also have our own calender - we dont celebrate EID -in India - (FRIDAY), PAKISTAN (SATURDAY), & SAUDIA (may be sunday).
where does the moon go for three days ?? lol ??

Why do i have nudge that Labayk has come back in a new avatar?

[Aymelek]

actions of Bohras dont allign to sahabas but to their Imams and Dais who have not seen how the prophet prayed,

Br. Asad,

Hazrat Ali, Imam Hasan & Imam Husain all qualify as sahabas as well. Further Imam Ali ibn Husain will qualify as a Tabeyun and Imam Mohammed ul Baqir will qualify as Tabe Tabeyun.

With respect to hand placement during prayers, Prophet has prayed in both ways (i.e. in early part of Islam he prayed with folded hands) and as Shia believes after the event of Ghadeer-e-Khum (i.e final revealation) he prayed with hands on side ways.

Why do i have nudge that Labayk has come back in a new avatar?

I suspect Khilfatul Rehman to be more of an avatar of Labaik or Incredible or Sufi Monk.....

[asad]

Br. Asad,

Hazrat Ali, Imam Hasan & Imam Husain all qualify as sahabas as well. Further Imam Ali ibn Husain will qualify as a Tabeyun and Imam Mohammed ul Baqir will qualify as Tabe Tabeyun.

Br. Aymelek
I dont think any of the people mentioned by you ever prayed washeks, used Masallas in Masjids, used namazi Chakris when they came out of washrooms or rather recited any Duas Bohras recite while doing their Wudu. I dont have problem with Duas but why additions to prayers when they were not a part of the origianal prayer, because as you see additions always increase, with Syedna constituting his own prayers, washeqs, new niyyats every year, two rakat tulul umar, matam after every fard, its a never ending list, now where did he learnt that. of course not from Ali or his sons but down the line some where things went out of hand.

With respect to hand placement during prayers, Prophet has prayed in both ways (i.e. in early part of Islam he prayed with folded hands) and as Shia believes after the event of Ghadeer-e-Khum (i.e final revealation) he prayed with hands on side ways.

How did Ali prayed, specially while offering behind Khalifas.

I suspect Khilfatul Rehman to be more of an avatar of Labaik or Incredible or Sufi Monk.....

This guy comes in more than one avatar at the same time so when we have Khalifatur rehman active, we can expect few more. Guy is so much obsessed with the Forum that some times he argues with his own ID's

[hsnhussain]

2) While in Qiyam in Salat Bohras put out their hands loose whereas maximum Muslims put it below chest.
3) Gap between legs while standing in qirat.

Brother Asad,
Can you state why bohras keep their hands loose whereas maximum Muslims put it below chest.
Once my mother explained to us why we raise hands when we say "Allahu akbar" while praying. (I don't remember it though.)
I believe it does'nt matter whether your hands and legs are in any particular position as long as you are praying with your heart.

[JC]

Bohras go for Form over Substance and have totally forgotten that is should be Substance over Form.

[ghulam muhammed]

It all zeroes down to creating a separate identity and alienating them from others. They follow the Britishers to the core...... "Divide and Rule" !!!

[Aymelek]

Br. Asad,

Bohras like other shias pray with hands at the side as they believe this is how Prophet offered his prayers. Even Maliki school of thought in Sunnis pray with hands on the side (its called "Sadl"). So yes there is a difference of opinion as to how actually the Prophet prayed. Regarding Hz. Ali, again as shias (including bohras) and Malikis believe that sahabas followed Prophet and also prayed with hands on the side. Other Madhabs of sunnis say the sunnah is to pray with folded hands.

With respect to Vashek, there was a discussion on this forum sometimes back..here is the link

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6286&p=83336&hilit=vasheq#p83336

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6302&p=83337&hilit=vashek#p83337

Vashek is nothing but Nafil prayers or supererogatory prayers...Daim Ul Islam quotes Imam saying that nafil prayers will complete any shortcoming in your fard prayers.

With respect to Duas, most of the duas that bohras pray come from Imam Ali ibn Husain (mostly from Sahifa Sajjadiya) they are nothing more but supplication to Almighty, so nothing wrong in it. The more you do it... more better..if it is directed to Allah.

Certain other things come from our culture or tradition..like chakri..i believe comes from our brahmin anscestry..nothing divine about it..though...nor it is obligatory to use chakri u can use clean slippers it wont annul the wudu or prayers....

In the end, I believe as Br. JC rightly puts, Substance over Form....

[asad]

2) While in Qiyam in Salat Bohras put out their hands loose whereas maximum Muslims put it below chest.
3) Gap between legs while standing in qirat.

Brother Asad,
Can you state why bohras keep their hands loose whereas maximum Muslims put it below chest.
Once my mother explained to us why we raise hands when we say "Allahu akbar" while praying. (I don't remember it though.)
I believe it does'nt matter whether your hands and legs are in any particular position as long as you are praying with your heart.

Bohras have attributed tawil meanings to their arkans, where even how you stand has a meaning, and as usual all tawil points out to Ali and his succession and super human position. Tawil is a really funny concept where you can cook up any story and the listener has to agree to you.

[asad]

Br. Asad,

Bohras like other shias pray with hands at the side as they believe this is how Prophet offered his prayers. Even Maliki school of thought in Sunnis pray with hands on the side (its called "Sadl"). So yes there is a difference of opinion as to how actually the Prophet prayed. Regarding Hz. Ali, again as shias (including bohras) and Malikis believe that sahabas followed Prophet and also prayed with hands on the side. Other Madhabs of sunnis say the sunnah is to pray with folded hands.

With respect to Vashek, there was a discussion on this forum sometimes back..here is the link

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6286&p=83336&hilit=vasheq#p83336

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6302&p=83337&hilit=vashek#p83337

Vashek is nothing but Nafil prayers or supererogatory prayers...Daim Ul Islam quotes Imam saying that nafil prayers will complete any shortcoming in your fard prayers.

With respect to Duas, most of the duas that bohras pray come from Imam Ali ibn Husain (mostly from Sahifa Sajjadiya) they are nothing more but supplication to Almighty, so nothing wrong in it. The more you do it... more better..if it is directed to Allah.

Certain other things come from our culture or tradition..like chakri..i believe comes from our brahmin anscestry..nothing divine about it..though...nor it is obligatory to use chakri u can use clean slippers it wont annul the wudu or prayers....

In the end, I believe as Br. JC rightly puts, Substance over Form....

Agreed to a major part of your post, Problem is when every day something is brought in or increased in the name of past practices. Bohra clergy has replaced sunna and nafil prayers with 2 rakat of tulul umar, now they might have replaced prayers which were never there in the first place but this innovation is increasing the cult of Daism thats threatening.

Why cant we just concentrate on salat and other things as Prophet did why should we offer these Dua's, because if they were necessary than Prophet would have thought us, if he has not than why discard them.

[ghulam muhammed]

Bohra clergy has replaced sunna and nafil prayers with 2 rakat of tulul umar,

There is now one more 2 rakat additional namaz for Mansoos, it has started in Chennai, Iam not aware of other cities.

[fearAllah]

Do you have a pictures of how Prophet prayed ?? do u have a leader who can guide you ?? or you just pray how people are doing it and you do it ??
the actions while praying are all passed by those who had prayed and seen how prophet prayed and then they have spread Islam.

We are followers of Prophet (and his closest ) Imam Ali - Imam Hussain and now their DAIs - Inshallah we cant be wrong, we follow what they have done and we are sure our Ibadat is not wasted.

So u mean to say also Imam Ali and Prophet (SAW) used to do wadhawanu with coconuts like hindus?

And u mean to say when Imam Ali got married he came with a coconut in his hands like hindus?

Our Dai is follower of Hindus rather than the pious Ahlal-bayts

[badrijanab]

fearAllah check this: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=8034

[Al Zulfiqar]

There is now one more 2 rakat additional namaz for Mansoos, it has started in Chennai, Iam not aware of other cities.

when are they starting 2 rakats for taha, the mansoos' mansoos, the 54th dai? they have to do it soon, as taha has to live for sure until his 'official' nas is done. it might be a good idea if they also started 2 rakats for taha's yet unborn son, who will be the 55th dai, so that he comes into this world as an already anointed dai.

in fact, we should have 2 rakats namaaz just to pray that we can continue doing these 2 rakat namaz's..

[ghulam muhammed]

when are they starting 2 rakats for taha, the mansoos' mansoos, the 54th dai? they have to do it soon, as taha has to live for sure until his 'official' nas is done. it might be a good idea if they also started 2 rakats for taha's yet unborn son, who will be the 55th dai, so that he comes into this world as an already anointed dai.



in fact, we should have 2 rakats namaaz just to pray that we can continue doing these 2 rakat namaz's..

Al Zulfiqar bhai,
The day is not far when abdes will have 2 jaagvani raat during ramzan as there will be a whole lot of 2 rakat namaz for the entire qasre mawalis, baite zainis etc etc.

[JC]

Is it Taha or Hussain? I believe it is Hussain, Taha is Prince of Ustra!! Ibrahim is eldest Prince of QJoker.

Anyway from 53rd, Ayam-ul-Tabudaat (whatever this crap is ... sorry to say that), they will have various Jagvanee raats for Tul-ul-Umer and for Shukur for Ehsaan-e-Aeem of Dais specially 53rd and 54th (yeah, we can call them Pooja Raats too .. ).

[asad]

except being a kitty party what is Meethi shitabi. can some one point out the history of this.

[zinger]

except being a kitty party what is Meethi shitabi. can some one point out the history of this.

Asad,

The kitty party that you refer to is a Meneej, which yes, is a kitty party.

Meethi Sitabi, while i am not sure of the exact history, what i do know of, is that it is certainly no kitty party. it has religous roots that i am unaware of

[Aymelek]

except being a kitty party what is Meethi shitabi. can some one point out the history of this.

Br. Asad,

Go through the following post and you will see Br. Porus as attempted to explain the concept of Meethi Shitabi... hope it helps

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=560&p=9014&hilit=mi ... tabi#p9014

[asad]

except being a kitty party what is Meethi shitabi. can some one point out the history of this.

Br. Asad,

Go through the following post and you will see Br. Porus as attempted to explain the concept of Meethi Shitabi... hope it helps

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=560&p=9014&hilit=mi ... tabi#p9014

Thanks Br. Aymelek,

can you or some one else probably Porus delve on the history of it, specifics like in which period it started and why a sudden rise in meethi shitabi's these days. It might have started with a noble purpose but now a days has turned into more of a kitty party.

[zinger]

Hi Asad,

Once again, it is grossly wrong to equate a mithi sitabi with a kitty party. Please correct your mindset. A mithi sitabi can consist of people who are complete strangers to one another, so the question of a kitty party does not arise.

Once again, i think you are thinking of a meneej, in which case, you are right, it is nothing but a kitty party

[asad]

Hi Asad,

Once again, it is grossly wrong to equate a mithi sitabi with a kitty party. Please correct your mindset. A mithi sitabi can consist of people who are complete strangers to one another, so the question of a kitty party does not arise.

Once again, i think you are thinking of a meneej, in which case, you are right, it is nothing but a kitty party

Zinger,

I think you dont know what is going on in Bohras these days. let me help you a bit.

There are two types of Meethi Shitabis held these days.
1) Organised by Burhani women's association or any of the sister concern where women can book a thaal at a certain inflated price and than a group meethi shitabi is organised where food and return gifts are from organizers. generally women invite their close friends or relatives to fill up the thaal.

2) Organised by women at their home, women are seated in multiple of 8 in thaals where food and return gifts are by hosts. one women probably a wife of aamil or moallim whoever is available comes to preside.

in both occasions Meethis shitabi is a custom to socialize and nothing else hence the word Kitty party.

Occasion and Niyyat or of least concern as every thing is done with the niyyat of Tulul umar of 102 year old Dai.

[zinger]

Sure Asad, i'll accept whatever you say, except for the last part. Not all Sitabi functions are for the long life of our Dai. Mind you, i said NOT ALL

Anyways, the wife of an Aamil or a Moallim does not have to be there. it is optional. None of the Sitabis' that my mum has ever given had them.