North Korea and Dawoodi Bohras

[Yusuf]

just few days back I have returned from NK for a business visit, I noticed too much similarity between NK and dawoodi bohras....
dear leader of NK jim has dragged whole country in deep shiit, we just see big statues of him and his father every were, false miraculous stories of dear leader, plants , flowers mountains and rivers are named after dear leader.

people are poor and illiterate, none are allowed to mingle with foreigners and talk about NK politics or problems.

dear leader is kind of GOD for them, he him self doesn't understands modern technology nor he allows his people to use it.

north Koreans are in kind of prison, and no were to escape, just like bohras : )

[ghulam muhammed]

"Dear Leader" challenges the tyrants like USA but Bohra Dai felicitates tyrants like Narendra Modi, L.K.Advani and Bal Thackerey.

[Al Zulfiqar]

brother yusuf,

this is very interesting! you must be one of the few foreigners to visit north korea. i am curious to know what sort of business opportunities NK would present that made you visit there.

but coming back to the comparisons with bohras. there are many similarities, but also some glaring anomalies in your observations. curiously, north koreans seem to be very happy and trusting in their 'dear leader', they are as brainwashed as our simple and naive bohras. they are fed a constant diet on their tv and print media of 'us v/s them' - the classical siege mentality - and that the only person who can lead them to salvation and liberty will be their highly glorified 'dear leader'. they too are prevented from gaining knowledge from 'outside and hostile' sources, they are 'protected' by coming into contact with foreigners and the outside world, lest their pure minds are polluted by prejudiced and evil thoughts.

the north korean leadership has mutated into a cult based around a dynasty, exactly as is the case with bohras. they have an omnipresent and omnipotent secret police which spies on its own people, retribution is harsh, sycophancy and ass-licking is rewarded with plum postings and close contacts within the top power circles, the dictators and their allies live lives of luxury and opulence shielded from the misery and starvation suffered by the toiling masses. they live in a bubble, just as the dai and his ayyash family live in the clouds and consider themselves as "divine royals".

i thank you for bringing up this topic. its the perfect example of what a cult can turn into. north korea personifies the bohra cult, only theirs is several times bigger and is based on power and politics, ours on religion, but their eventual result and goals are the same. absolute power, megalomania, self-delusion and isolation of the masses.

the inevitable conclusion of such megalomaniac societies is always destruction, usually through a combination of isolation beyond the point of self-preservation, thereby starving their own people of most resources, inevitable mistakes by the top brass and an eventual implosion. such weakened states are then attacked by stronger powers with vested interests and eventually disappear from history. we have all seen the result of this as regards east germany, the soviet union, fascist italy, albania etc. these states prevented their citizens from escaping by erecting huge barriers; physical (like the brandenburg wall) or administrative, like denying of passports to the citizenry and harassment to the remaining family if any one member escaped. these are the same tactics employed by our tyrants - excommunication, persecution, bullying, intimidation, creating a siege mentality, encouraging a sense of isolation and inferiority etc.

i personally feel that whereas the north korean dynasty will eventally and soon meet its doom, our bohra dynastic cult will last longer as its based on religion and it uses this 'divine sanction' to maintain its hold on ignorant masses. the kothar's tyranny too will end of course as all evil is finally exposed. the absolute and monstrous domination of the roman catholic church in both religious and temporal spheres finally ended after almost 1800 years, but not without bloodshed, schisms and political upheavals. today almost 40% of white catholics in the west have turned against the church and have lost their 'faith'. what keeps the church going are asians, latino's, blacks and neo-converts. but eventually they too will no longer feel the need for a saviour church and the vatican will shrink even further. similarly, as bohras start thinking and reflecting more and more on the tyranny of their cult, they too will drift away. this movement has already started to some degree in the west, but it will spread to the main pockets of the indian subcontinent and africa. either the kothar will have to heed the signals and reform itself or it will find itself irrelevant and toothless.

may that day come soon.

[ghulam muhammed]

How many zaadas does the north korean leader have ? How big is his extended family ?

[Bohra spring]

How many zaadas does the north korean leader have ? How big is his extended family ?

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl= ... Bw&dur=147

Very much like our KasreAli...

[JC]

North Korea is a STATE, so if Dear Leader goes, state would be 'freed' or if the state is eliminated there will be no place for Dear Leader and hence will die his own death. In North Korea leader and his family 'nned' a piece of Land to have their Kingdom running.

It is different with Dawat-e-Hadiyah. It is a STATE within so many states being a No-State in itself. The Dear Dai-Allah does NOT need a land or state and if their 'one' state collapses in any one state they will live on and carry on. Just see how clever Kotharis (and even Aga Khanis or Ahmedis or Bihais) are, they do not have any 'land' for their Kingdom and yet they have Kingdom, they do not need to 'defend' this geographical state and have nothing to provide to their subjects (and hence they keep on saying that be 'loyal' to the country you live in). If State of Dawat-e-Hadiyah collapses in Pakistan so what, they are in so many other countries and they will live - this state collapsed in Uganda but so what ........

[ghulam muhammed]

The feud between North and South Korea reminds one of Mansoos and Mazun Camps !

[JC]

If Mazun is like South, I am all for him ......

[shapur]

As far as the Muslim world is concerned, the belligerent posturing of North korea and its leader Kim Jong jr. is very much to their advantage. Br. Ghulam mohd. wrote in his thread on the "freemasons and their hidden agenda" about how the world today sits on a roundtable in UN and discusses the obliteration of the Muslim world. Such being the scenario, a Kim jong here and a Chavez there works like a temporary distraction for the lion from its prey.
No wonder that the masters in the US have thrown their pride to the winds and now woo almost everyone from the cold war era whether its Russia, China, South Korea or whoever, in a bid to align them on their axis and see that the target-subject remains isolated. Hence the present development in the Korean peninsula and the build-up and re-alignment of the world forces serves to temporarily widen the comfort zone of the Muslims. Hugo Chavez's death is a big loss and one is not sure if his successor will don his shoes. But the death of Kim jong sr. and the resulting void has been quickly and aptly filled by his son, the jr. While one may tend to sympathise with the genuinely affected and victimised in the land, one has to also acknowledge that an opposition, however small , to the hegemony of the US is always welcome in the larger global interest.

[JC]

My dear BJ,

And that is the VERY reason I am ALL for REUNIFICATION .........!!!!

[JC]

Bro Shapur,

Just because North is against USA Muslims cannot side with Kim Jr. The regime in North is oppressive and should be dealt with accordingly. Chavez was better though.

If we have to fight or face USA or whosoever we have to put our house in order first, everything else will fall in place then.

[shapur]

Bro Shapur,

Just because North is against USA Muslims cannot side with Kim Jr. The regime in North is oppressive and should be dealt with accordingly. Chavez was better though.

If we have to fight or face USA or whosoever we have to put our house in order first, everything else will fall in place then.

Whenever any country has produced an enduring leader who develops the courage to stand up to the US, the US manages to mobilise global opinion branding and projecting him as anti-people, a "dictator", one who is against his own citizenry,etc.,etc. and lays the perfect ground for his exit and for installing a suitable pro-US substitute. This is the order of the day and we have been seeing this enactment time and again in the past decades in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Libya, etc. and full efforts being made now in Syria , Iran and north Korea.
As if theres no discrimination, injustice and persecution in their own country. Whichever be the state in the world, theres always some disgruntled niche groups with a persecution complex and they cannot serve as indices to guage the situation of the state and the credibility of its leadership. Kim Jong has to be commended for his assertiveness,exercising his rights to weaponry like everybody else and his no-nonsense, dont-mess-with-me gesticulation to his hostile neighbours and their God-father nation.
And please enlighten the forum on how do we "put our house in order first" ?

[JC]

Bro Shapur,

I agree with most of what you have said. I agree there should not a be World Policeman or Thaykaydar. Every country has a right to pursue and practice a system which it prefers however the basic human rights and fundamentals should be observed and adhered to. I am not saying I am totally against North Korea or Syria or Iran and I do not endorse Saudi Arabia, Middle Eastern kingdoms or USA. We have to however see the things relatively. Yes there may not be ideal freedom to US citizens or Canadian or Westerners however they relatively enjoy more rights and freedoms than citizens of Iran or North Korea or Saudi Arabia. If justice is not available in USA, it is at least 'seen' as available, not in NK or Iran or KSA. We have to see where people are 'relatively' happy; so if people in Iran and KSA are happy, then be it.

Every group, religion or country has the fundamental right to pursue their system and protect their interests. 'Pakistan First' as our dear Musharraf use to say (and he still says so). We all are guided by our interests first - what we should remember is not to step on others rights and freedom for our own interests.

And yes we have to put our house in order first - Muslims have EVERYTHING even then they are termed as terrorits and beggars everywhere. Why?? They have wealth, power, human resources, intelligent populations, geo-politcial locations, then why cannot they dicatate their terms as USA or West?? Why Iran and KSA are siding differnet groups?? First we have to eliminate our own internal divide and hatred and that will exactly start putting our house in order.

[shapur]

Br. JC wrote;
We all are guided by our interests first - what we should remember is not to step on others rights and freedom for our own interest


Well, this is exactly whats not being followed by Uncle sam and his coterie and is very much the cause of half the world's troubles today.

And as for your other observation:

Muslims have EVERYTHING even then they are termed as terrorists and beggars everywhere. Why?? They have wealth, power, human resources, intelligent populations, geo-politcial locations, then why cannot they dicatate their terms as USA or West??

I agree with all your above points except "power" and "intelligent populations". The Muslim countries dont have both. And they dont have the former because they don't have the latter. If they had intelligence, they would'nt have missed the nuclear arms bus when the world was busy boarding it. Their current state of affairs and powerlessness which is a direct consequence of this apathy has become glaring in world view and is being exploited to the fullest by all so much so that if Israel has to tell the KSA "hey, I am gonna bomb you today", theres nothing they can do about it.

First we have to eliminate our own internal divide and hatred and that will exactly start putting our house in order.
You have hit the nail on the head with this point. This is the need of the hour if the Muslims have to bring about a change in their condition. Allah has expressed His resentment at division of His ummah in several passages ( 3:103,104,105 ; 6:159 ; 30: 31,32 ) and gives a profound message in 49:10 " The believers are but a single brotherhood; so make peace and reconciliation between your two( contending) brothers and fear Allah that ye may receive mercy".

[Bohra spring]

I cannot believe the similarity.....

The highly respected International Crisis Group argued strongly last year that doubts about Kim Jong-un's authority were ''based on flawed assumptions and misunderstandings of North Korean ideology and political institutions''.
''There are no signs to suggest that Kim Jong-un … is anything but in charge in his own right,'' the ICG concluded. ''North Korea under Kim Jong-un is stable. There is no sign of any opposition to the dynastic succession, and the barriers to change are tremendous.''

Is the war on drugs and alcohol Muffy's kind of missile crisis ? The difference is he has launched his missiles

His South Korea is Qutbi, Opponents are us rebels !

Our defence is ? Any ideas ?

[Bohra spring]

Reads so similar if we replaced NK with Abde and Kim with SMB or Muffy no one would differentiate

Seoul (CNN) -- To the outside world the images from North Korean state television are nearly comical -- weeping soldiers chasing Kim Jong Un into the freezing sea, elderly women screaming as the young leader approaches, and North Koreans unleashing dogs at a poorly made effigy of a South Korean leader.
But as Chae Young Hee watches, her eyes begin to brim with tears and her lips tremble uncontrollably with national pride.
Chae is not a North Korean anymore, having defected to South Korea 11 years ago, abandoning the totalitarian regime.

In the North, she experienced starvation, the brutality of the regime and fled with her daughter in hope of a better life in the free world. But as Chae watches KCTV, the North's only television channel its citizens can view, the power of the propaganda she grew up with takes hold.
Inside North Korea: Starvation and death N. Korean defector recounts dad's death Is N. Korea a nuclear threat? Regime propaganda as news in North Korea

"They're God," she says, referring to North Korea's trinity, Kim Jong Un, his father Kim Jong Il, and grandfather Kim Il Sung.
The tears are now running down Chae's perfectly made up face and she chokes back a sob. "This is how you are brought up since birth. Even I can feel the pull in my heart. I thought I forgot about this feeling since it has been so long.

"But seeing this now, I feel I'm back in North Korea. I don't know how to express myself. He is really great and I feel we will all die without him."
Chae stops talking and asks for a glass of water. She tries to compose herself.
"I know their sincerity," she says, as she watches a group of soldiers sing and sway before Kim, their faces red with emotion and streaked with tears. "This is not a lie. It is not an act. It is real. If anything happens, they will give up their lives. They will even jump into fire."
Chae seems to fall into an other-worldly trance, unable to answer questions as clearly as she did before the North Korean television started to play. She watches children's programs, which always have the evil American or South Korean villain that must be defeated. Prime-time movies are often war movies or romantic tales where the North Koreans defeat the American imperialists.
When North Koreans watch news on the dear leader, they believe in it. We live because of him.
Chae Young Hee, defector
Chae laughs as she sees a program she recognizes from her childhood, a clay action movie where an adorable North Korean cat defeats the evil South Korean rats.
Watching her slip back into her time as a Pyongyang resident is a window into how the North Korean regime manages to maintain its seemingly unyielding hold on its people.
"Even if I tried to explain this, I don't think people here would understand. They won't think this is real," she says, watching a news clip of adoring citizens waving flowers and rushing to the young leader.
"But this is true. That is the truth. And we can't think for ourselves. When North Koreans watch news on the dear leader, they believe in it. We live because of him."