Syedna's Mother

[wise_guy]

What is the controversy surrounding Syedna's mother? Can someone shed some light or post any link if it was discussed previously.

[ghulam muhammed]

Have you heard the Dai or anyone from his family ever mentioning her ? See the importance given to the Dai's wife Amatullah aaisaab in whose name he has started a number of trusts and whose death anniversary is also commemorated but have you ever heard the same for his mother ? There is a saying that "Maa ke pair ke neeche jannat hai" but it seems that he has changed the word "Maa" into "Biwi".

For further info read the article written by the Dai's maternal uncle (Mama) which I have posted on the 'Archives from the PDB website concerning Bohra Issues' thread.

[Grayson]

When one goes for Ziyarat in Surat, towards the left side of the main Qubba's you can find the grave of Syedna's mother. I think her name is Amena bhensaheb. It is written that her date of passing is on 133Xh (I forget which year specifically). Syedna was born in the year 1333h, which means his mother passed away while he was very young. Which is likely why he has not mentioned her. It doesn't seem like he got to personally know his mother.

[seeker110]

Children forget their mother, and it seems normal. I think that's a load of bull....

[wise_guy]

Children forget their mother, and it seems normal. I think that's a load of bull....

what Grayson has said makes sense. How can a person who doesn't have much memory of his/her mother remember a lot about her apart from passing reference.

[seeker110]

An unborn baby starts to hear,feel emotions and several other humanly attributes while still attached to mother. This strong bond will last him his entire life. Children, who were adopted right after birth wouldn't stopped thinking about their bio mom. The first glimpse of Allah is the heart of mother. Now imagine, if you were born in a family, where father was Natik e quran and talks to unseen person, I would think that the son would have some screws missing or loose. A dangerous situation for a chosen future leader of bhoras.

Now imagine another new and improved package of wisdom at your service.

[Grayson]

Children who are adopted often don't know they're adopted until they're told so.

There are more important points you could argue against rather than casting doubt over a child's recollection of his mother in infancy. Such as who is she and what was her role (if any) during Syedna Taher Saifuddin's reign.

It's unfair to expect Syedna (or any child who lost a mother between the ages of 2-6) to sing praise of a mother they hardly got to know.

Considering the above, I think bashing the Dai for not mentioning his mother is an irrelevant and trivial gripe.

[Sikander]

oh and I thought DAI is gaib naa malik and he can talk to dead from kabr (is that all bull crap?)

Thankyou abdes for accepting DAI is just human and same rules applies to him what applies to normal human being.

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Alhumdolillah all praise to ALLAH alone, and I worship him and none else...

[seeker110]

Br. Grayson, Still hung up on the master. Fool me once, shame on you......... How many instances does it take to see the evil in a person.

[Grayson]

The argument (and roundabout association) you're trying to make is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

[SBM]

Grayson
Did you ever meet Syedna Taher Saifuddin, were you every cajoled by 52nd Dai or did you ever meet his wife so how come you sing their praises? And you do call them BAWAJI Saheb and he calls you as Mara Farzando
Just wonder

[Grayson]

Have I sung their praises? Just wonder

[seeker110]

When someone breaks the constitution (rules) of Islam. He/she is not just guilty and deserves punishment. Whoever associates or still backs the person is guilty by association. Chor ka Gawah Chor he hota hai. As per Br grayson, everything is explainable with valid reasons. The judge never found these people innocent. The topic will bring us to the inside of the family of evil doers. Only love inside this lovable family is the love and worship of money.

[Grayson]

In regards to this particular topic, how did anyone break the constitution of Islam? The judge never found these people innocent of what? I'm sorry, but I do not follow. What are you trying to say and how does it relate to Syedna's mother?
..........................................................................................................................

A forum member asks in regards to 'controversy' surrounding Syedna's mother.
Other members respond how he shows no reverence to her compared to others (actually, this point's been mentioned quite a few times around the forum).
I reply as to why I likely think so and back it up with what I know.

This leads to an announcement of Syedna being evil, guilty of 'breaking the constitution of Islam' and me not knowing how things were as I've never met the 51st.

Wait... what?

There's a way to argue things. Blowing up tiny matters in order to slander someone is inefficient. It's dishonest when there's a possible reasonable explanation as to why they do or don't do whatever they're accused of. This doesn't mean I'm singing their praises or absolving their faults. I'm defending them on a specific matter that's being made more embellished than it needs to be.

To the point:
Don't use the same tactics in slandering the Dai that the Kothar uses to glorify him.

[wise_guy]

karara jawab Grayson bro.. clap clap.... the main aim of these people here it seems is to somehow malign the Dai, no matter what. Just a simple and genuine query about his mother leads to mud slinging... I don't consider any progressiveness in this.

In regards to this particular topic, how did anyone break the constitution of Islam? The judge never found these people innocent of what? I'm sorry, but I do not follow. What are you trying to say and how does it relate to Syedna's mother?
..........................................................................................................................

A forum member asks in regards to 'controversy' surrounding Syedna's mother.
Other members respond how he shows no reverence to her compared to others (actually, this point's been mentioned quite a few times around the forum).
I reply as to why I likely think so and back it up with what I know.

This leads to an announcement of Syedna being evil, guilty of 'breaking the constitution of Islam' and me not knowing how things were as I've never met the 51st.

Wait... what?

There's a way to argue things. Blowing up tiny matters in order to slander someone is inefficient. It's dishonest when there's a possible reasonable explanation as to why they do or don't do whatever they're accused of. This doesn't mean I'm singing their praises or absolving their faults. I'm defending them on a specific matter that's being made more embellished than it needs to be.

To the point:
Don't use the same tactics in slandering the Dai that the Kothar uses to glorify him.

[Grayson]

Agreed that it's not progressive, but not everyone holding a different view engages in maligning the Dai. A good chunk of people don't consider it a main aim. Although, there are a few that apparently do. Just wanna remark on that.

[Al Zulfiqar]

Have you heard the Dai or anyone from his family ever mentioning her ? See the importance given to the Dai's wife Amatullah aaisaab in whose name he has started a number of trusts and whose death anniversary is also commemorated but have you ever heard the same for his mother ? There is a saying that "Maa ke pair ke neeche jannat hai" but it seems that he has changed the word "Maa" into "Biwi".

For further info read the article written by the Dai's maternal uncle (Mama) which I have posted on the 'Archives from the PDB website concerning Bohra Issues' thread.

brother gm,

the manuscript posted on the archives was provided by me. i have the original copy in my possession, given to me by someone from the 51st dai's mamaji's (luqmanji) family. syedna burhanuddin's mother was the daughter of taher saifuddin's mamaji, i.e. ts' own first cousin. i had sent this document many years ago to brothers porus and hussain ksa for transliteration. apparently one of them has posted it into the forum's archives. now that the forum has made arrangements to upload images and files directly onto the forum threads, maybe i can post the entire scanned document which runs into 40 odd pages.

grayson ostensibly has no idea what skulduggery he is defending. the whole reason why this question was asked is because the member knows very well that the answer will reveal many shocking secrets and skeletons in the dai's family closets. the reason, in very brief, is that the syedna has a shocking guilt and the crime of his father (murdering his own mother) to hide and has taken the cold-blooded decision that money and power trumps even the closest relation known to man, viz. that of a child-mother relationship. the evil empire takes priority, mother be damned.

[Grayson]

Please direct me to this information as search doesn't seem be working for me.
In regards to the above conversation, I stick by what I said as it's valid in regards to the point discussed although I admit I might have slipped on alluded information I didn't catch. I've read the Luqmani document and didn't catch any significant mention of Syedna's mother (aside from being related), particularly in regards to a conspiracy against her. Please show me otherwise.
Ostensibly, I know no dark secrets and simply attempt to call it as I see it.

[Al Zulfiqar]

I stick by what I said .....

stick to whatever you like. use fevicol.

[Grayson]

Too bad you can't give an actual reply. I'd like one to shut me up.

[seeker110]

All the guidelines were met when 51st selected the gem among men to be the next dai. There are no conspiracies with this family. All matters are tiny, in Br Graysons world.

[Grayson]

If you go off topic, it's irrelevant to the issue. If you can't support your words, there's little reason to think it true. You shouldn't make accusations that aren't related to what is being asked (and on the off chance that you do, try to make sense and relevance of what you're trying to say). In Br Graysons world.

[Al Zulfiqar]

Too bad you can't give an actual reply. I'd like one to shut me up.

i can give a reply which will run into several pages, but then after all that you will ask for proof. there is nothing which will shut you up. you love your own bombast too much.

stick to what you want, dont forget the fevicol.

[Grayson]

I do not understand why you purposely twist my words out of context.

You claim to have a document that supports another argument. I'm sure it's useful. I didn't argue over what you mentioned. My argument and supported reasoning was outlined above, and in regards to "why doesn't the Dai ever speak about his mother?" the answer that "he hardly got to know her" is rather fitting. And yes, I stick by that. With fevicol, cement and duct tape until someone provides a better answer with supporting information.

You claim you can and said it was mentioned elsewhere. Except it wasn't. So forget about your desire to appeal to his royal highness (myself, naturally) and put your money where your mouth is. I urge you, more than I dare. Although I admit, I'm fond of using your MO of taunting, too.

[Sikander]

grayson how come your dai know ilmul gaib? when he dont even know background of his mom? and how do mansoos talks to dead in graves, when he dont even know who was his grandmother?

is that all bull crap which is feeded in majlises? are they liars? are you dumb?

explain please...

[Grayson]

You should know the positions of the person you're talking to before making assumptions.

1) I do not believe the Dai is ghaib na maalik.
2) I already said why I don't think the Dai talks about his mother (that point itself, the basis of my involvement in this topic, suddenly doesn't seem to matter)
3) I believe the Mansoos's claim is hyperbole.

Anything that's overly stated is likely a load of bull. I don't take a lot of what's unrealistic literally. That doesn't mean I don't take moral teachings from some of our bayaans. When applicable and based on further independent thinking and discussion with friends and family. Considering I don't take it literally, I don't consider the fantastic sounding bayaans "lies."

I'm not the most intelligent person, but atleast I have the capability to attempt to answer what's asked of me. I do not appreciate your insult. But I'm fine with your words. It's informative and highly progressive information in regards to this topic.

[humanbeing]

Grayson, your assertion to remain around the topic is commendable.

Dai not mentioning regarding his mother for lack of memories is rather a weak argument. There is a question mark for why so ? AZ claims to have a long explanation regarding skeletons from kothar.

Whatever be reason, if supported with credible proof, it can be a big factor in exposing evil deeds from history of kothar. So it may become relevant to the topic of reform in bohra community. Otherwise I see no relevance of giving importance to “royal family” for sake of lineage rather than their deeds.

Morever some members on the forum are just hellbent on fighting with others regardless of logic and nature of arguments.

IF a brainwashed abde visits this forum, he / she requires subtle and polite debates in order to grasp or even start thinking about possibilities of kothar being wrong. But the arguments here are flying all over. The believing process is going to take time, it has happened for many on this forum, but catfights are turning away more people as compared to converting visitors to rational thinkers.

[Sikander]

br grayson, if u think DAI dont know ilmul gaib and what ever mansoos claims in mosque is hyperbol, then it means you consider him liar.

I am sorry u are already out of misaaq

[asad]

Br. Greyson is not our run of the mill abdes, at best he can be called a dawoodi bohra but not an abde, he has his grey cells at the proper place and we should welcome him to the board as he brings some sensible voice among us, Though his reasoning on few topics sound unreasonable to me but i will give it to more of a difference of opinion, he has command over his thoughts and articulates them in a better way.

@All,

If i am not mistaken the document AZ is talking about is a book published by Luqmanji, maternal uncle of SMB who fell out of good books of Kothar once he opposed the treatment of his sister on the hands of STS, that book is a very good read but to me it lost its credibility as it talks of a ghost RatanI a relative of 46th Syedna poisoning him, so if the books bases a part of its accusations on basis of a story told by ghost than rest of the book also becomes shaky.

But i agree to what Br. AZ is talking about as in one of the post by Porus he has mentioned in a very long essay about whole issue, I tried to search but was not able to, might be Porus himself can post that again. IT a very good read and answers a lot of questions on how and when this thing went out of hand.

[badrijanab]

Her name is not "Ratan I" but "Chaman aai". Because she murdered the rightful 46th Dai al Mutlaq, punishment was levied on her.

Mumineen rooh goes into paradise, non-mumineen rooh (soul) due to absence of 'Misaaq for Imam' (Ulul amr as per Quran) or their wrong deeds remains here in this world they are referred as "bhoot" / "daakan" - Laeena Chaman aai is later and is spotted by many in graveyard of Surat.