I don't know about other places in the world, but the local miasaheb in our country recently called upon the youngsters who are of age to hand in their "resume" for a match making exercise. What worries me however, is that they were specifically told that no marriages to non-Bohris would be allowed. What happened to the idea of all men (and women) being equal? If the other side is willing and converts to Islam, Sunni or Shia (not necessarily the man worshiping version that seems to be preached by certain Bohra parties), then why should the union be forbidden? Why say this now and not before?
The reason given was that our Maula feared that our "culture" would become diluted and lost. Personally, iI think the Kothar is just afraid that it is losing its previously undisputed grip on its the people. Besides, "culture" and religion are distinct, even though they might have some influence on the way the other is practiced.
Please do give your comments.
Ban on marriage to non-Bohris
-
MOHD HUSSAIN
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Ban on marriage to non-Bohris
What country is this ? I am curious!Best thing will be to bring to the task of law enforcement agency of the state -Publicise it & oppose it as much as you can with the billboards etc!
-
jahrastafari
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 4:01 am
Re: Ban on marriage to non-Bohris
Inquisitor
Forgive my scepticism but i am not convinced that you 'local miasaheb' would say such a thing. If you are residing in N America or Europe what city/country are you in? What is the name of the person that said this? - or did you hear it from someone else? Maybe you can't remember or the name is on the tip of your tongue.
You have a choice. If you meet and fall in love with a non-bohra and you wish to live as a bohra then nikkah and misaq are mandatory. There is no way that your amil can refuse if both partners wish it. But you cannot expect the community and your family to acknowledge your union without these things.
This is not an issue of control. No one is putting a gun to your head and saying you have to stay within the bohra framework. All communities have rules and if you don't find them acceptable or cannot abide by them because of your principles then don't participate.
I know many people who have had mixed marraiges including memebers of my own family. As long as the boy [or girl] agree to perform misaq and nikkah as per our true sharia and the boy can prove he is circumcised [and if not undergo the operation] then they are welcomed as true brothers/sisters into the community.
True there is concern that more and more young people are choosing mixed marriages, particularly in Europe and N America. That is more an issue of cultural integration and the aspirations of today's young then the community's cultural identity being diluted. Indeed our identity as bohras is stronger now then it has ever been.
Forgive my scepticism but i am not convinced that you 'local miasaheb' would say such a thing. If you are residing in N America or Europe what city/country are you in? What is the name of the person that said this? - or did you hear it from someone else? Maybe you can't remember or the name is on the tip of your tongue.
You have a choice. If you meet and fall in love with a non-bohra and you wish to live as a bohra then nikkah and misaq are mandatory. There is no way that your amil can refuse if both partners wish it. But you cannot expect the community and your family to acknowledge your union without these things.
This is not an issue of control. No one is putting a gun to your head and saying you have to stay within the bohra framework. All communities have rules and if you don't find them acceptable or cannot abide by them because of your principles then don't participate.
I know many people who have had mixed marraiges including memebers of my own family. As long as the boy [or girl] agree to perform misaq and nikkah as per our true sharia and the boy can prove he is circumcised [and if not undergo the operation] then they are welcomed as true brothers/sisters into the community.
True there is concern that more and more young people are choosing mixed marriages, particularly in Europe and N America. That is more an issue of cultural integration and the aspirations of today's young then the community's cultural identity being diluted. Indeed our identity as bohras is stronger now then it has ever been.
Re: Ban on marriage to non-Bohris
Jah,
I was actually in agreement with your post, until I read the our identity as bohras is stronger now then it has ever been. bit.
Though I am vehemently opposed to the institution of Misaq, I do agree that couples make their own decisions regarding this. Most wimp out and submit to a Misaq, but that is their own weakness and need for acceptance. Almost all who take the Misaq are coached to say "Naam" and nothing beyond that, and they understandably don't care as long as they pay the $$ and show up now and then with facial hair.
As far as the Bohra identity, there is none. The Bohras assume the identity of the Dai and live through him. They identify with their actions of being a Bohra, such as the beard, attire, and Matam. In the process they give up any identity and that is an un-written rule.
For example, no self-respecting person with an identity would ask the Dai for names of their kids, permission for going to Haj, blow breath on the forehead of sick people, drink blow-breath water etc.
All of the above are voluntary, and voluntarily performed by the Bohras, because they lack identity beyond their love for the Dai and the visual display of voluntary conformity.
I was actually in agreement with your post, until I read the our identity as bohras is stronger now then it has ever been. bit.
Though I am vehemently opposed to the institution of Misaq, I do agree that couples make their own decisions regarding this. Most wimp out and submit to a Misaq, but that is their own weakness and need for acceptance. Almost all who take the Misaq are coached to say "Naam" and nothing beyond that, and they understandably don't care as long as they pay the $$ and show up now and then with facial hair.
As far as the Bohra identity, there is none. The Bohras assume the identity of the Dai and live through him. They identify with their actions of being a Bohra, such as the beard, attire, and Matam. In the process they give up any identity and that is an un-written rule.
For example, no self-respecting person with an identity would ask the Dai for names of their kids, permission for going to Haj, blow breath on the forehead of sick people, drink blow-breath water etc.
All of the above are voluntary, and voluntarily performed by the Bohras, because they lack identity beyond their love for the Dai and the visual display of voluntary conformity.
Re: Ban on marriage to non-Bohris
All over the world the 'Misaq-Majalis' were held immediately after the Sayedi Mazoon Saheb and his son Taher bhaisaheb were beaten up at Surat in the presence of Sayedna Saheb's son-in-law and Amil of Surat. Fresh Misaq was taken everywhere. This was becaus it was felt by Kothars that general Bohras faith in Dai is shaken after the assault on a personality next to him in Dawat.
I had taken Misaq when I was 16 years old it is still valid. Why Misaq is so fregile? How does it break with every small incident? Faith should always be very strong.
I had taken Misaq when I was 16 years old it is still valid. Why Misaq is so fregile? How does it break with every small incident? Faith should always be very strong.
-
MOHD HUSSAIN
- Posts: 443
- Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Ban on marriage to non-Bohris
May be Br Qiyam can answer this without Quranic references & twisting!He is supposedly expert on Bohra Misaq!
-
jahrastafari
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 4:01 am
Re: Ban on marriage to non-Bohris
Muddai
I do acknowledge that for some people performing nikkah and misaq is simply a case of going through the motions in order to appease parents or other relatives or to avoide the stigma that still persists about mixed marriages. But as i said before nobody puts a gun to your head. Now you may think the stigma is unwarranted in this day and age but all communities have taboos. You can't blame us for having hang-ups as that is a part of being human.
I do not agree with you that bohras have no identity. Our distinct dress, food, customs differentiate us from other shia denominations. We do live through the dai as that is a fundamental aspect of what a true mumin believes. What is wrong with asking the dai for the name of your child? I don't think that has anything to with your identity, but with your personal preferences. As i have said before you are not forced to do anything you do not want to do. Every community has rules and customs and if you cannot accept them - that's fine. Join the Khojas instead. I bet the Aga Khan is asked to name babies and to bless food and water that alieviates suffering. Damn sure his followers offer him gifts too and have obligatory financial contributions . What you do not have any right to do is to judge customs as wrong whilst without first being within the fold.
Naming of babies, Misaq, blow breath water, We do those things because we want to and that is the source of our identity. We are not devoid of culture as a result - rather strengthened by these customs.
I do acknowledge that for some people performing nikkah and misaq is simply a case of going through the motions in order to appease parents or other relatives or to avoide the stigma that still persists about mixed marriages. But as i said before nobody puts a gun to your head. Now you may think the stigma is unwarranted in this day and age but all communities have taboos. You can't blame us for having hang-ups as that is a part of being human.
I do not agree with you that bohras have no identity. Our distinct dress, food, customs differentiate us from other shia denominations. We do live through the dai as that is a fundamental aspect of what a true mumin believes. What is wrong with asking the dai for the name of your child? I don't think that has anything to with your identity, but with your personal preferences. As i have said before you are not forced to do anything you do not want to do. Every community has rules and customs and if you cannot accept them - that's fine. Join the Khojas instead. I bet the Aga Khan is asked to name babies and to bless food and water that alieviates suffering. Damn sure his followers offer him gifts too and have obligatory financial contributions . What you do not have any right to do is to judge customs as wrong whilst without first being within the fold.
Naming of babies, Misaq, blow breath water, We do those things because we want to and that is the source of our identity. We are not devoid of culture as a result - rather strengthened by these customs.
Re: Ban on marriage to non-Bohris
Jah,
Your point is taken.
What you site as identity is more cultural and I never said that the Bohras were devoid of culture. I think the community is rich in cultural tradition.
Going back to the identity, my point being that people that volutarily get someone else to name their child, which is their pride and joy, or voluntarily ask permission to perform Haj, or vuluntarily ask the Dai to name their business, are giving up their identity.....not their culture.
Your point is taken.
What you site as identity is more cultural and I never said that the Bohras were devoid of culture. I think the community is rich in cultural tradition.
Going back to the identity, my point being that people that volutarily get someone else to name their child, which is their pride and joy, or voluntarily ask permission to perform Haj, or vuluntarily ask the Dai to name their business, are giving up their identity.....not their culture.
