We went to the masjid last night. And our Aamil sahab gave a rather interesting (?!) bayyan. It was about the significance of Mis'saq.
At the end of it one rather brave person got up to ask that if the mis'saq is so important, why is it that boys and girls of 13-14 have to take it? Arent they too young to understand its significance?
The Aamil sahab replied that it was the duty of the parents to explain the mis'saq to the children, if the parents feel that the children arent ready they should delay the mis'saq.
Another person then got up to ask why they read the mis'saq so quickly. Can't they slow down a little so that the person taking the mis'saq can atleast understand what is being said..
The Aamil sahab replied that they read the mis'saq in the same speed as our beloved leader. And if people whose mis'saq is being taken want to know what is being said they are most welcome to come to him and get a copy of the text. Later he also added that he cant give the text to children or young people because he doesnt think that they would be able to appreciate its significance...
I thought this was quite amusing. Reminded me a little of the Bush-Cheney type arguments...I would laugh if it wasnt so sad...
Mis'saq
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shabnampancha
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:01 am
Re: Mis'saq
I am completely with you on this one Noori. Talk about Bush and Cheney, and comparing this to our community is amusing. I really wish people were more literate in our com to understand what is happening around us. I feel like all they are trying to do is be a center of attraction to benefit themselves. not even the people part of the community
Re: Mis'saq
Xnoori, you must be fortunate that the amil offered the text of misaq. If you can get a copy of one you please post it on this forum for people to know what its all about.
Re: Mis'saq
This happened more than a decade ago in Washington and is personal knowledge.
A Bohri friend's daughter was getting married to an English speaking American of Christian faith. The groom sincerely wanted to convert to "Bohra" and go through the Misaq and the circumcision and the whole works.
The father-in-law (to be) took the groom (to be) to the visiting Amil to initially discuss the conversion etc. He asked the Amil a few questions about our "faith" -including the significance of Misaq.
The Amil instead of answering all the questions in reasonable details, gave mono-syllabic reluctant responses. When the question on Misaq was asked -including asking for a translated version, the Amil got annoyed and told the groom's father-in-law in "lisanedawat" that his son-in-law was asking too may questions and he was not prepared to answer him any more.
When the groom was told about the Amil's response, he immediately walked out and went through a Sunni Muslim's simple and unconditional conversion, and had his Nikah performed by the same Sunni Muslim Kadhi - and may I add without Misaq and compulsion of his foreskin being nicked from his "sensitive" lower head.
The couple is still happily married with two kids.
A Bohri friend's daughter was getting married to an English speaking American of Christian faith. The groom sincerely wanted to convert to "Bohra" and go through the Misaq and the circumcision and the whole works.
The father-in-law (to be) took the groom (to be) to the visiting Amil to initially discuss the conversion etc. He asked the Amil a few questions about our "faith" -including the significance of Misaq.
The Amil instead of answering all the questions in reasonable details, gave mono-syllabic reluctant responses. When the question on Misaq was asked -including asking for a translated version, the Amil got annoyed and told the groom's father-in-law in "lisanedawat" that his son-in-law was asking too may questions and he was not prepared to answer him any more.
When the groom was told about the Amil's response, he immediately walked out and went through a Sunni Muslim's simple and unconditional conversion, and had his Nikah performed by the same Sunni Muslim Kadhi - and may I add without Misaq and compulsion of his foreskin being nicked from his "sensitive" lower head.
The couple is still happily married with two kids.
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alsojinxed
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Thu May 10, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Mis'saq
Before we got married my wife (who was non-bohra) was made to take the misaaq.
We didnt care either way at the time because we knew it was really all rubbish and we just went with the flow to ease pressure from unfortunatly ignorant family members.
The Aamil 'specially' arranged to have the entire misaaq recited in English but nobody was allowed to be there except my wife, myself and another family member.
Having heard it in English - If taken literally it is the most disturibing doctrine, humiliating and not in the least bit islamic.
We tried to see the lighter side of it - going into it as a joke and by doing so it actually was pretty funny.
I dont have quotes and dont remember it verbatim The aamil refused to give us the copy for our 'study'. But here is the jist of what i recall.
"you are taking this misaaq and pledge total allegiance in all your worldy matters to dai"
"if you say yes and really do not mean it and are lying, and if you do anything at all to breach this coivenant, all your worldly possessions will become unlawful to you, all your family will be unlawful, any children you have will be unlawful to you and you will never be accepted in paradise"
Needless to say, evey five minutes i would cover my mouth and cough loudly saying "bulls**t" as the ammil asked "say naam".
It was truly the most ridiculous form of cult initiation expereinced. Its insane that the community takes this seriously, and even more insane that nobody has done anything about it.
We didnt care either way at the time because we knew it was really all rubbish and we just went with the flow to ease pressure from unfortunatly ignorant family members.
The Aamil 'specially' arranged to have the entire misaaq recited in English but nobody was allowed to be there except my wife, myself and another family member.
Having heard it in English - If taken literally it is the most disturibing doctrine, humiliating and not in the least bit islamic.
We tried to see the lighter side of it - going into it as a joke and by doing so it actually was pretty funny.
I dont have quotes and dont remember it verbatim The aamil refused to give us the copy for our 'study'. But here is the jist of what i recall.
"you are taking this misaaq and pledge total allegiance in all your worldy matters to dai"
"if you say yes and really do not mean it and are lying, and if you do anything at all to breach this coivenant, all your worldly possessions will become unlawful to you, all your family will be unlawful, any children you have will be unlawful to you and you will never be accepted in paradise"
Needless to say, evey five minutes i would cover my mouth and cough loudly saying "bulls**t" as the ammil asked "say naam".
It was truly the most ridiculous form of cult initiation expereinced. Its insane that the community takes this seriously, and even more insane that nobody has done anything about it.
Re: Mis'saq
Will try to get the text from him. Though I think he will probably decline to give it to me since I am too 'young' (Hmmm...didn’t hear him saying that when he read my nikkah last year!)
I also heard another thing. Apparently, you aren’t allowed to tell non-bohri about your beliefs. He (the aamil) specifically told us that what we are told is only for our ears. If someone i.e. a non-bohri asks us, we should just say that we are shias and no need to go into any details. And if someone asks for details...lie!
So, we are one of the lucky few who are still on the right path...but shhh...we can’t tell other people!
I also heard another thing. Apparently, you aren’t allowed to tell non-bohri about your beliefs. He (the aamil) specifically told us that what we are told is only for our ears. If someone i.e. a non-bohri asks us, we should just say that we are shias and no need to go into any details. And if someone asks for details...lie!
So, we are one of the lucky few who are still on the right path...but shhh...we can’t tell other people!
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alsojinxed
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Thu May 10, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Mis'saq
xnoori,
yeah these muppets tell you the same thing everyhwere, for any occasion Even when you go for Hajj and Umrah at Bait Allah during official namaaz time, they say dont pray with the sunnis. Just do the actions, pretend to pray, then pray your 'real namaaz' later.
So much for Islamic brotherhood, hey?
Apparently at Hajj - out of 3 million people, only the few thousand bohras hajj is REALLY accepted by allah. This was said by the ameer-al-hajj a couple of years ago (probably repeated every year)
yeah these muppets tell you the same thing everyhwere, for any occasion Even when you go for Hajj and Umrah at Bait Allah during official namaaz time, they say dont pray with the sunnis. Just do the actions, pretend to pray, then pray your 'real namaaz' later.
So much for Islamic brotherhood, hey?
Apparently at Hajj - out of 3 million people, only the few thousand bohras hajj is REALLY accepted by allah. This was said by the ameer-al-hajj a couple of years ago (probably repeated every year)
Re: Mis'saq
I find it really amazing how most Bohris cling on to the belief that it's only the select few following the present Da'i that are going to heaven and the rest of the world will be reborn to be 'purified' and finally be born Bohri.
A rather amusing explanation that was once offered when someone wondered how a sinning/thieving Bohri would still go to heaven, was that there are "categories" in heaven and that though you are guaranteed a place in heaven - it might be the "slums" rather than the "palaces".
But really .. who would have to worry about going to the slums in heaven - honest and upright as all Bohris are ??? Hmmm ... maybe only those living in Mahals right now...
A rather amusing explanation that was once offered when someone wondered how a sinning/thieving Bohri would still go to heaven, was that there are "categories" in heaven and that though you are guaranteed a place in heaven - it might be the "slums" rather than the "palaces".
But really .. who would have to worry about going to the slums in heaven - honest and upright as all Bohris are ??? Hmmm ... maybe only those living in Mahals right now...