Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
In olden days all Friday a beggers (sahil) would stand outside the masjid singing sufi songs in praise of maula Ali with a bowl in his hand.
Today in modern times
Sahil(begger) is kothar,inside the masjid, singing praise for dai asking money in envelopes.
JAGO MUMINEEN JAGO
Today in modern times
Sahil(begger) is kothar,inside the masjid, singing praise for dai asking money in envelopes.
JAGO MUMINEEN JAGO
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Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
Mumineen are Cowards. Both parties are to be blamed for this. My friends they are writing big things here but all of you have no courage to come out in open.wise_guy wrote:In olden days all Friday a beggers (sahil) would stand outside the masjid singing sufi songs in praise of maula Ali with a bowl in his hand.
Today in modern times
Sahil(begger) is kothar,inside the masjid, singing praise for dai asking money in envelopes.
JAGO MUMINEEN JAGO
Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
Tasneem ka pati mumins are in deep slumber after eating Dabba/Thali jaman.tasneempati wrote:Mumineen are Cowards. Both parties are to be blamed for this. My friends they are writing big things here but all of you have no courage to come out in open.wise_guy wrote:In olden days all Friday a beggers (sahil) would stand outside the masjid singing sufi songs in praise of maula Ali with a bowl in his hand.
Today in modern times
Sahil(begger) is kothar,inside the masjid, singing praise for dai asking money in envelopes.
JAGO MUMINEEN JAGO
Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
Let us evaluate things in an unbiased manner the idea of qarz hasana collection and disbursement is a fantastic idea to help people save their skin from interest menace and for a start it was alright to distribute envelopes for extending their help in this cause but it looks awkward when everytime you enter the masjid and you are stuffed with envelopes above that they have started it sending with tiffins and now it has lost its value and purpose, then comes the second part as to where that money is utilised but here Iam a witness that a number of people whom I know have been provided with qarz hasana for business and home etc, but nowhere these things are transparent they do favour their near ones and its not on merit, well that's my observation but I could be wrong.
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Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
So here is this story of my friend which i want to share as the topic of this thread is relevant,
So my friend's sister's father in law, wanted to do talaqi, chammar etc in the khidmat of newly apointed 53rd Dai during Quran khatmi tamasha, he tried registering it through shITS52.com but after so much patience he lost hope, he contacted someone from his jamaat and asked that me being a SHEIKHSAHEB not able to get such khidmat. Than cunningly this person from his jamat told him to call this fulan fulan guy from vazaraat in Mumbai. He called him he instructed him to come to Mumbai, so he reached Mumbai and he did a wink and told him to do salam cover of Rs5300 and do Rs1000 each to his chamchas nearby in BadriMahal. The following day he was seated in the best place for deedar, got chammar, talaqi and various khidmats for Muffy.
So my friend's sister's father in law, wanted to do talaqi, chammar etc in the khidmat of newly apointed 53rd Dai during Quran khatmi tamasha, he tried registering it through shITS52.com but after so much patience he lost hope, he contacted someone from his jamaat and asked that me being a SHEIKHSAHEB not able to get such khidmat. Than cunningly this person from his jamat told him to call this fulan fulan guy from vazaraat in Mumbai. He called him he instructed him to come to Mumbai, so he reached Mumbai and he did a wink and told him to do salam cover of Rs5300 and do Rs1000 each to his chamchas nearby in BadriMahal. The following day he was seated in the best place for deedar, got chammar, talaqi and various khidmats for Muffy.
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Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
The IDEA behind qarze hasanah scheme :-salaar wrote: the idea of qarz hasana collection and disbursement is a fantastic idea to help people save their skin from interest menace
The true intention was to park the 0.01% black money of Kothar somewhere and what could be better then to keep it with Bohras where it is most safe as no bohra has the guts to run away with their money. Moreover it not only legitimises their ill-gotten wealth but also gives it the "Charity" tag due to which Bohras are overwhelmed and see it as "Mola nu ehsan ne karam" !! There are many bhaisaabs who also give 'Qarde Hasanah' in their personal capacity and the biggest lender is Qaid Johar, this helps them in ensuring loyalty and forming a gang of their own.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8377
There are scores of cases, especially in gulf countries where the money is given to the rich bohra sheikhs who use it for their multi million dollar businesses and there is a huge concession for them when it comes to pledging gold as the percentage of gold that is required to be pledged is far far less then what the average bohras are required to pledge. In some cases money is disbursed even without any gold security ! The lower middle class bohras have to unsuccessfully run from pillar to post to get a loan but the rich businessmen get the same in no time at all.salaar wrote:Iam a witness that a number of people whom I know have been provided with qarz hasana for business and home etc,
Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
I agree that qarz hasana is issued quickly and different terms to well connected people and sometimes even the gold condition is relaxed but it is not that deserving don't get it altogether general people are given amounts which the local jamaat finds easily retrievable and if the purpose for borrowing fits their criteria, I have many friends engaged in small business who seek such amounts and if their payments are regular then things gets easier in future, however people are usually not comfortable in the typical bohra environment to go and face them, secondly their attitude is usually arrogant as if it is being asked to be given frm their pockets, sometime back I went to the concerned office and witnessed somebody who failed to repay the amount on time being grilled in presence of others which is wrong but then this is the only way social pressure with which they can make people pay on time.would h but If summarizing our debate I would say favourism is everywhere but we cannot brand this scheme a flop people are taking benefits out of it.
Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
Six month before in Chennai the khair has stopped all qardenhasanah scheme run by individual groups and given power only to one which is operated by jamat. The rules is loan against gold only. When argued that from where poor mumenis will bring gold, and was told that the capable mumenis should help the fellow mumin and should give gold to them to procure gold.
one of the condition of loan is: In case of 3 cheques dishonored, gold will be liquidated without any further notice.
The kothar wants their money safe and wants to risk others. and by the way the money they give loan is not their own, it is public money.
one of the condition of loan is: In case of 3 cheques dishonored, gold will be liquidated without any further notice.
The kothar wants their money safe and wants to risk others. and by the way the money they give loan is not their own, it is public money.
Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
as discussed earlier getting qarz hasana is not an easy task and gold condition has to be generally fulfilled but that is as per shariat laws the condition says there has to be some form of possession for surety, terms of return should be clearly specified in black and white and no return in any form should be demanded from the borrower infact in olden days our elders even didnt drink a glass of water from the borrower, we criticize but name any institution in todays world which give you qarz hasana that is without charging any percentage and as mr maqbool said they have stopped other individual groups in chennai i can justify the idea by another aspect, about 20 years back i remember me and my friends used to distribute niaz hussain in sabils on road now most of the beneficiaries of that food were even unaware of the purpose and barakat in that and infact a good quantity was wasted and so on then our local aamil stopped the boys from doing so which infuriated some and people were asked to contribute niaz in the main stream or at least to do it within the masjid premises, after all these years my unbiased observation is that now it is done in a systematic way where more people are able to take the advantage with minimum wastage and so on therefore whatever action has to be taken it should be done collectively now critics may see different reasons or aspects but i feel if it comes under one banner it carries more strength but at the same time iam not assuring you of any transparencies in the sense that favourites must be getting the lions share but general people also get its fruit.
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Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
For years Bohra would complain wajebat wadhi guy Che, Amil zulum Kare Che ,
Har tarike control shazada loko Kare che, musalmano hase Che a kya si rit riwaj laya
A kothar paisa mange Che and upari jay Che new schemes to loot
So in 1970 reformists rose but Abdes refused to rise , were reformist too liberal no abde supported same excuse fear of barat, doubts
Jan 2014 SKQ rises again Abdes are not sure fear dur pok, are looking for any reason to doubt SKQ . The SKQ family has placed their lives and credibly on the line , created a plan but Abdes will try to find holes
If only they were as suspicious and doubtful with SMS
If they don't rise now let them suffer more then no one will come to help. Wait until SMS tightens the noose
Reminds me of people of Kufa!
Har tarike control shazada loko Kare che, musalmano hase Che a kya si rit riwaj laya
A kothar paisa mange Che and upari jay Che new schemes to loot
So in 1970 reformists rose but Abdes refused to rise , were reformist too liberal no abde supported same excuse fear of barat, doubts
Jan 2014 SKQ rises again Abdes are not sure fear dur pok, are looking for any reason to doubt SKQ . The SKQ family has placed their lives and credibly on the line , created a plan but Abdes will try to find holes
If only they were as suspicious and doubtful with SMS
If they don't rise now let them suffer more then no one will come to help. Wait until SMS tightens the noose
Reminds me of people of Kufa!
Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
What example you have given does not fix here. If only one committee that is jamat is authorized to give kardan hasanah where Kheir and a big head of KA are involved.salaar wrote:i can justify the idea by another aspect
The all scheme was working in Chennai was doing well. No one see any fault but the power of jamat was in danger, that is the reason they have authorized jamat. The jamat will exploit all those who are poor. Poor does not have gold and an advise by khair, other mumenin to give gold to poor to avail loan is not at all practical. The big question here is why the other mumenin will trust the poor mumenin when their so called khir khua is not trusting and giving loan only against gold. The Qrden Hasanah scheme is running without gold and for last so many years sucssesfully without jamat involvement.
If the loan is given against any security then it should be called interest free loan and not Qarden Hasanah.
Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
In some jamaats 2 or 3 guarantors are required before a qardan hasana/aka Loan is signed off. The guarantors have to not just sign off but provide postdated checks in case the original borrower defaults. They started doing this and then people started asking again and agian for guarantors from same pool of people. eventually guarantors stopped providing the guarantee and the qardan hasana committee also realize this problem.
But the point is that this whole process whether you take gold or guarantor, is like a bank collateral. ANd problem is there is no integrity in the system - yes it does help for micro qardan hasana with good return rates, but all that is so miniscule - that most of time people just take qardan hasana for bigger homes, vacations and travels...
Meanwhile, the extremely poor mumineens continue to live in subhuman conditions, with no resources for adequate hygiene, water, basic education or enough money to get a trade school education.
So much centralized bureuacracy and red-tape. With so much money. And so much poverty amongst our brothers and sisters. Its so sad.
What happened to PDB Central Board filing something like PUblic litigation for better transparency of finances?
But the point is that this whole process whether you take gold or guarantor, is like a bank collateral. ANd problem is there is no integrity in the system - yes it does help for micro qardan hasana with good return rates, but all that is so miniscule - that most of time people just take qardan hasana for bigger homes, vacations and travels...
Meanwhile, the extremely poor mumineens continue to live in subhuman conditions, with no resources for adequate hygiene, water, basic education or enough money to get a trade school education.
So much centralized bureuacracy and red-tape. With so much money. And so much poverty amongst our brothers and sisters. Its so sad.
What happened to PDB Central Board filing something like PUblic litigation for better transparency of finances?
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Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
From the day of inception this scheme was a deception. This was never meant to help poors rather it was for corrupt Amils, sheikhs & chamchas.
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Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
Can someone please quantify how big this issue is? Are we talking hundreds or thousands of families.Meanwhile, the extremely poor mumineens continue to live in subhuman conditions, with no resources for adequate hygiene, water, basic education or enough money to get a trade school education.
It is ridiculous and pity we can build gold and gemstone tombs, grandeur schemes while our brethren and sisters are living in such squalid conditions.
When quantifying the problem we need numbers, locations what is their current source of income if any ...they need to be put on a system where they become self sufficient and not reliant in handouts
What does it take to sort their facilities eg water, health and education grants for their children
Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
This is the kind of thing that random unknown Bohras (the quiet saints) are in touch with the pulse of the community. And depending on location and munaafiq power hold (aka Kothar sponsored Aamil to thwart any good deeds done by anyone else other than Kothar) has varying degrees of success. There are mumineen living in slums in various locations in india. It's hard to quantify without active support of Aamil, ar at least absence of their interference. It is an unfortunate state that Aamilsahebs and committees formed too help poor mumineens feel they have a patent on helping the poor. Sadly, power infiltrates many aspects of our community.Bohra spring wrote:Can someone please quantify how big this issue is? Are we talking hundreds or thousands of families.Meanwhile, the extremely poor mumineens continue to live in subhuman conditions, with no resources for adequate hygiene, water, basic education or enough money to get a trade school education.
It is ridiculous and pity we can build gold and gemstone tombs, grandeur schemes while our brethren and sisters are living in such squalid conditions.
When quantifying the problem we need numbers, locations what is their current source of income if any ...they need to be put on a system where they become self sufficient and not reliant in handouts
What does it take to sort their facilities eg water, health and education grants for their children
Anyone can attempt to go underground and do things silently, but quantification like you, BohraSpring Bhai, describe might become possible if conditions within the community improve in terms of fear, courage, freedom from oppression for the privileged and underprivileged alike.
If we the privileged feel the fear and suffering these days, we can perhaps see that we still have more options to make a difference when we think of our less privileged brothes and sisters.
Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
Yes. we are talking lakhs of bohra people who live in dire poverty all over India. Mumbai alone can account for thousands of bohras living in poverty (Thousands of poor bohras in extended suburbs of Mumba.. from Jogeshwari to Virar along the western railway line). There are poor bohras in main Mumbai area as well such as around the Bhendi bazaar area, and other suburbs such as Santacruz, Bandra etc..
Bohra spring wrote: Can someone please quantify how big this issue is? Are we talking hundreds or thousands of families.
It is ridiculous and pity we can build gold and gemstone tombs, grandeur schemes while our brethren and sisters are living in such squalid conditions.
When quantifying the problem we need numbers, locations what is their current source of income if any ...they need to be put on a system where they become self sufficient and not reliant in handouts
What does it take to sort their facilities eg water, health and education grants for their children
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Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
Now the title shall be changed to " Jaago Kothar Jaago"
http://www.indiatvnews.com/news/india/s ... tml?page=4
http://www.indiatvnews.com/news/india/s ... tml?page=4
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Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
I would like to post one funny incident.
There was some program in which only women were invited. I don't exactly recall the occasion. But it was afew years back
One elderly bensaab was seated sorrounded by her chamchis. She was talking to them and there was quiet a mayhem.
Just then one middle aged lady came, and told the bensaab that she wanted a pass for qadambosi of SMB.
The bensaab asked her from where had she come and the lady said "dungarpur:
The elderly bensaab must have been a little hard of hearing and she heard "singapur (Singapore).
With a very broad smile she instructed one chamchi to give a qadambosi pass to" that lady from Singapur"
The lady realised that the bensaab heard her wrong and corrected her saying " not Singapur its DUNGARPUR" The moment bensaab heard DUNGARPUR the smile vanished frorm her face and very angrily pushed the lady and said "chalo jao ayyasi koi pass vass nathi. ..koi aa bai ne nikalo yahasi"
The poor lady shamefacedly went away
There was some program in which only women were invited. I don't exactly recall the occasion. But it was afew years back
One elderly bensaab was seated sorrounded by her chamchis. She was talking to them and there was quiet a mayhem.
Just then one middle aged lady came, and told the bensaab that she wanted a pass for qadambosi of SMB.
The bensaab asked her from where had she come and the lady said "dungarpur:
The elderly bensaab must have been a little hard of hearing and she heard "singapur (Singapore).
With a very broad smile she instructed one chamchi to give a qadambosi pass to" that lady from Singapur"
The lady realised that the bensaab heard her wrong and corrected her saying " not Singapur its DUNGARPUR" The moment bensaab heard DUNGARPUR the smile vanished frorm her face and very angrily pushed the lady and said "chalo jao ayyasi koi pass vass nathi. ..koi aa bai ne nikalo yahasi"
The poor lady shamefacedly went away
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Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
Did you witness this incident or have you heard this thing from third person. Please don't get me wrong I know these people loves only money but the spontaneous reaction and the way she insulted that lady in front of everybody is doubtful.
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Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
I was standing near the bensaab as I was one the organisers.
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Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
so you are amongst the chamchis???confusedlady123 wrote:I was standing near the bensaab as I was one the organisers.
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Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
Unfortunately yes....at that time..
Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
^
That was a very sharp response to TB and that should shut him up as he was trying to be sarcastic...
That was a very sharp response to TB and that should shut him up as he was trying to be sarcastic...
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Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
Hey TBtrue_bohra wrote:so you are amongst the chamchis???confusedlady123 wrote:I was standing near the bensaab as I was one the organisers.
You being here on this forum and defending and supporting the nefarious activities of your Qasre-jaali and their Circus Ring Master DMBS in itself is a big proof that you too are a big chamchaa
DMBS = Dawedaar Mufaddal Bhai Saheb
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Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
and what are you now...confusedlady123 wrote:Unfortunately yes....at that time..
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Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
Really ???Moiz_Dhaanu wrote:Hey TBtrue_bohra wrote: so you are amongst the chamchis???
You being here on this forum and defending and supporting the nefarious activities of your Qasre-jaali and their Circus Ring Master DMBS in itself is a big proof that you too are a big chamchaa
DMBS = Dawedaar Mufaddal Bhai Saheb
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Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
Now I am "see the title of this thread"(jaago mumin jaago)true_bohra wrote:and what are you now...confusedlady123 wrote:Unfortunately yes....at that time..
Care to join me.
you will feel liberated.
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Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
Likeconfusedlady123 wrote:Now I am "see the title of this thread"(jaago mumin jaago)true_bohra wrote: and what are you now...
Care to join me.
you will feel liberated.
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Re: Jaago Mumineen Jaago !
u had said that majority in ur building or neighbourhood are of similar thinking and attitude, so why not join SKQ enmasse.confusedlady123 wrote:Unfortunately yes....at that time..
that way u all will feel more liberated and wont have to resist kothari guys every now and then. somewhere it has to start, so why not with ur neighbourhood.