Exit Ganpati, Enter Mansoos.

[ghulam muhammed]

The festival of Ganesh Chaturthi also known as ganpati was celebrated with much vigour and fervour like always by devout hindus. This festival is observed very devoutly especially by the people from Pune and the most visited mandal over there is Dagdu Halwai Mandal which boasts of lakhs of visitors and is famous for the number of coconuts offered to the deity. The number of coconuts offered exceeds almost one tonne which is auctioned at the end of the festival.

It seems that our great Muffy wants to outbeat this mandal, as recently during the urus of Syedna Abdeali Saifuddin in surat, he made an offering of 14,000 coconuts which were then dumped in the hauz after the same was emptied of water. The coconuts were then given away to the waiting abdes. As part of the many revolutionary changes being brought by Muffy in his era, this seems to be one more invention as nothing like this was ever done by the previous dais. It seems that as part of his next invention he will take on the Tirupati Temple which is famous for the amount of hair offered to the deity by its followers, so abdes should now brace themselves up with topis in their hand and be ready to offer their heads !! Please note that the tirupati temple earns around Rs.25 crore annually by way of "hair sale", hence in order to outbeat this temple abdes will need to offer hair from various other parts of their body also in order to cover the deficit.

[Momin Mukhlis]

GM... it seems u r Ghulam Ganpati...

[mnoorani]

Ganpati Muffy Moria
Mansoos na padh si niklija
Salaam , Najwa bandh karo
Paisa mumin na bachawilo

[zinger]

i agree that coconuts play an important role in our culture (Dawoodi Bohra culture with its vestiges of the Hindu culture, from whom we derive certain traditions), but 14000 coconuts is an enormous waste of money.

also, you are right, this is something new. very strange.

[Muslim First]

i agree that coconuts play an important role in our culture (Dawoodi Bohra culture with its vestiges of the Hindu culture, from whom we derive certain traditions), but 14000 coconuts is an enormous waste of money.

also, you are right, this is something new. very strange.

Just like Dabba Thali scheme, it will bring in return. You have free sampling now and you will pay dearly later. Kothar has got MBA from Harward. Business must expand.

There are no rituals in Islam and narial is not in any of it.

Read 2:208 and different tafseer of it. It basically says that you must enter Islam completely and cut non Islamic practice out.

Wasalaam

[zinger]

i agree that coconuts play an important role in our culture (Dawoodi Bohra culture with its vestiges of the Hindu culture, from whom we derive certain traditions), but 14000 coconuts is an enormous waste of money.

also, you are right, this is something new. very strange.

Just like Dabba Thali scheme, it will bring in return. You have free sampling now and you will pay dearly later. Kothar has got MBA from Harward. Business must expand.

There are no rituals in Islam and narial is not in any of it.

Read 2:208 and different tafseer of it. It basically says that you must enter Islam completely and cut non Islamic practice out.

Wasalaam

Janaab, this has been discussed time and again.

Certain rituals in Dawood Bohra Shia Muslim religon is more about where our roots were laid, than anything.

If you have a problem with it, there isn't a titch that we can do about it.

Kindly keep your version of "pure" Islam to yourself. No need to thrust it down our throats. I dont remember anyone dying and making you God around here.

[Muslim First]

Certain rituals in Dawood Bohra Shia Muslim religon is more about where our roots were laid, than anything.

Rituals are part of cultural heritage. Do not make part of religion of Islam. Leave Masjid for Quran-Sunna compliment activity. Build and use cultural halls for any other ceremony.

Sunni Bohras whose ancestors migrated from Yemen and Momins have their own Jamatkhanas in Ahmedabad.

I am sorry i rubbed you wrong way. I will ignore your posts in future.
Wasalaam

[zinger]

Certain rituals in Dawood Bohra Shia Muslim religon is more about where our roots were laid, than anything.

Rituals are part of cultural heritage. Do not make part of religion of Islam. Leave Masjid for Quran-Sunna compliment activity. Build and use cultural halls for any other ceremony.

Sunni Bohras whose ancestors migrated from Yemen and Momins have their own Jamatkhanas in Ahmedabad.

I am sorry i rubbed you wrong way. I will ignore your posts in future.
Wasalaam

you havent rubbed me wrongly and i hope i have not either.

this argument has been made in the past too, that there are certain traditions which are to do with the culture of the region.

for arguments sake, if Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was born in Norway, we would be breaking our roza with blubber instead of dates

I do not have a problem with you responding to my posts, no need to ignore them, but i have a problem with you picking the same fights over and over again.

like i told you, i have been around for 3 years now and couldnt help notice that you raise the same questions every time

[anajmi]

for arguments sake, if Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was born in Norway, we would be breaking our roza with blubber instead of dates

for arguments sake, if Syedna was born a sunni, then you would be wearing a lungi instead of a sayo.

Do not make idiotic arguments.

[zinger]

for arguments sake, if Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was born in Norway, we would be breaking our roza with blubber instead of dates

for arguments sake, if Syedna was born a sunni, then you would be wearing a lungi instead of a sayo.

Do not make idiotic arguments.

arre, mere bhai, your 'anal'ogy is bang on . who's making idiotic arguments. im just saying that traditions are often dictated by culture

[anajmi]

Culture that goes against the religion one chooses to follow should be abandoned. Idol worship was arabic culture that was abandoned after Islam, killing girl children was arabic culture (and still is in India) that was abandoned after Islam. So if bohris cannot abandon such rituals then they are hypocrites. I agree that coconuts is not that big a deal, but then bohras hide their hypocrisy behind this "culture" all the time.

[humanbeing]

Zinger
The list of cultural and Traditional practices followed by Bohras which defy Islamic principle as well many are practically useless is long.

Bohra priestly class makes such small and big rituals important to create a framework or fence to keep bohra in the fold and make them weirdly dependent.

I attended a bohra wedding recently and saw fanatic religious attachment to certain rituals which are clearly of hindu origin and has no practical or spiritual use. The irony is, by mixing salwaat and some duaas this hindu rituals become Islamic in their perspective.

Mama Mushaalo
Kaatho peetvo
Wadhaavo
Groom Carrying Metal when step out of the house

[anajmi]

I do not think sophisticated arguments will make sense to this guy. He is still an immature tool fascinated by anal in analogy and dreams about sending his posterior pics to people. Maybe a few more years and we might see some sense from him, though I am not too hopeful.

[Humsafar]

Cultural and religion are hopelessly mixed. Islam removed some of the evil pagan practices, yet Islamic beliefs and rituals cannot be completely separated from the Arab culture of that time and place.
Bohras, like all non-Arab converts, are not native Arabs. The vestiges of their ancestral culture and tradition still persist in their new religion. Nothing wrong with these practices so long as they do not militate against the basic tenets of Islam. On the contrary they add local colour and diversity to Muslim ummah. There is no such thing as monolithic Islamic Culture, and should not be. The cult of sunnah would have all Muslims look and behave the same way - no different from what the Bohra clergy have done to Bohras. But history has shown that people have more direct and visceral connection to their local culture and language than to religious beliefs that are imported.

[anajmi]

But history has shown that people have more direct and visceral connection to their local culture and language than to religious beliefs that are imported.

That actually doesn't mean anything. An iPhone and an iPod is also imported in India. Doesn't mean people do not make a connection to it. Infact, most indians reject things made in India. Most things sold in the US are made in China. We found a good religion made in Saudi Arabia, so let us follow it. There is a saying in India, do kashti mein sawaari karne wala doobega. That is more true for religion and meddling culture than for anything else. Provided ofcourse, one believes in that religion to be the true religion. If you are just another pretender, then you won't find any problems with pagan rituals mixed with imported religions. But if you claim to be a true follower of the religion, then the way to show it is to abandon the pagan customs.

[Humsafar]

All I'm saying is that in principle there is nothing wrong in continuing with local cultural practices if they do not contradict the tenets for a faith. Yes Indians use iPhones but it does not mean they start imitating Americans, instead they have adapted the use of iPhone to their Indian ways.

[ghulam muhammed]

GM... it seems u r Ghulam Ganpati...

A senseless comment from a braindead abde !! Is this all what you could say ? BTW, by following the ganpati tradition it is your Muffy mola who should be called "Muffy Ganpati" as he is the one who has adapted this ritual and not me..... Too difficult to figure out ?? I guess so !!

[Momin Mukhlis]

You don't have mind to how to debate. And yes u r DUSHMAN and to do FITNAT is ur job.

[ghulam muhammed]

You don't have mind to how to debate. And yes u r DUSHMAN and to do FITNAT is ur job.

And.....what is your level of debate ? Some stupid and irrelevant oneliners and avoiding a point to point discussion. Regarding "Dushman" and "Fitnat", it is nothing new as this is the normal practice adopted by abdes on instructions from their masters to label them as such when you dont have any logical answers. If any questions are raised on the master's conduct it automatically becomes a fitnat and the questioner becomes a dushman.

[Momin Mukhlis]

Do whatever u can... u will never succeed.
Kyun ki tu ek kam zarf insaan hai aur jinko tu bol raha hai unke saamne tere khade rehne ki auqat bhi nahi hai.
Aur tu yahi chilla iske alawa tu kuch kar bhi nahi sakta.
Good Luck... Ghulam Ganpati...

[think]

kuch kar nahi sakta magar sachi baat logoon ko suna to sakta hai. Thanks to the internet.

[ghulam muhammed]

jinko tu bol raha hai unke saamne tere khade rehne ki auqat bhi nahi hai.

pehle yeh jaakar pata kar ki woh khud khade rehne ke layak hai kya.

[Momin Mukhlis]

Akl si cho tame Ahmak
Na koi pan tame Layak
Aawaz kare tamne Dozak
Aao aye Ibn-e- Ahmak...

[mnoorani]

Aql ni waat na karo to saaru
Mansoos na kahaandaan to veche daaru
Mazoon ni ayyashi Nafisa Ali
Udaipur ni masjid ma khoon ni holi
Karachi ma Mumin par aawi aafat
Mansoos to maza kare ziayafat
Haj ni ibadat aa kevi
dubai se paisa maate vida giri

[MM Bukhari]

Aql ni waat na karo to saaru
Mansoos na kahaandaan to veche daaru
Mazoon ni ayyashi Nafisa Ali
Udaipur ni masjid ma khoon ni holi
Karachi ma Mumin par aawi aafat
Mansoos to maza kare ziayafat
Haj ni ibadat aa kevi
dubai se paisa maate vida giri

I think u shud stop talking about alcohol and nafisa bull shiit, unless and untill u have some solid proof for it.

corruption is major issue here, no one else will believe in any other thing which u talk about.

[SBM]

[quote]I think u shud stop talking about alcohol and nafisa bull shiit, [/quote]
Bukhari
Could you stop using foul language on the forum please.....

[mnoorani]

Aql ni waat na karo to saaru
Mansoos na kahaandaan to veche daaru
Mazoon ni ayyashi Nafisa Ali
Udaipur ni masjid ma khoon ni holi
Karachi ma Mumin par aawi aafat
Mansoos to maza kare ziayafat
Haj ni ibadat aa kevi
dubai se paisa maate vida giri

I think u shud stop talking about alcohol and nafisa bull shiit, unless and untill u have some solid proof for it.

corruption is major issue here, no one else will believe in any other thing which u talk about.

Dear Mr. Bukhari,
Why should I stop talking about the over indulgence of Haraam activities of the Sayedna's family ? Does it embarass you ?If it does then ith is my whole point. All that I have written has been written on the forum with proof. Even the written proof of the zaada from Saifee Mahal indulging in interest was scanned and pasted on this very forum. Those of us who were around during the late 70s know what a furore the affair of Mazun and Nafisa Ali had created. These are all mere mortals and not masoom.

[MM Bukhari]

I think u shud stop talking about alcohol and nafisa bull shiit, unless and untill u have some solid proof for it.

corruption is major issue here, no one else will believe in any other thing which u talk about.

Dear Mr. Bukhari,
Why should I stop talking about the over indulgence of Haraam activities of the Sayedna's family ? Does it embarass you ?If it does then ith is my whole point. All that I have written has been written on the forum with proof. Even the written proof of the zaada from Saifee Mahal indulging in interest was scanned and pasted on this very forum. Those of us who were around during the late 70s know what a furore the affair of Mazun and Nafisa Ali had created. These are all mere mortals and not masoom.

I dont have any thing to do with syedna family, and I know they are mortal, but I think we shud concentrate on more important issues.

[JC]

If you will forget to bow to one and only God, you will bow to hundreds from front and back and those gods will ride you ...........
Abdes today have no idea of Islam or Real Religion (not that I advocate for 'religions') - they are engulfed in Culture and Traditions (which are not theirs of course) and in so-called History (who was who after Mohammad).

[mnoorani]

Dear Mr. Bukhari,
The family of the leader of thecommunity ,who is called haqiqi Kaaba and whose teenaged grandsons are revered as that old mashaikhs bow down to them.Then it s a very important issue if the same family indulges in haraam activities like liquor business and interest and ofcourse rendevous with bollywood babes. Specailly when Sayedna himself claims in vaezes that liquor is the mother of haitaan. Does it mean his family is shaitaani ? Is Aqa Mola trying to convey a message ? We have to understand the haqiqat of this tawil u bayaan. He is trying to point to his own family.