Stunted Growth

[tahir]

Did anyone notice that inspite of a strength of one million, no bohri has yet achieved any exceptional feat? ...no bohri businessman is big enough to be known throughout the nation (forget other areas like sports, entertainment,politics etc.)....everyone is a shopkeeper...bohris dont make name in any field (except blind moronic following).....Only mulla burhanuddin occasionally makes it to the news cuz he is the leader of this community and has billions of rupees at his disposal (extorted by these million morons).....political leaders use him to tap into the bohri vote bank
....else, people know about bohris only in areas where bohris live in substantial numbers...I have travelled the length and breath of India and found that there are vast patches where its hard to explain to people what a bohri is cuz they have never heard of it....

...On the other hand there are just 80 thousand Parsis in India but they have made it big in almost every field - be it sports, business, entertainment, judiciary, politics etc....u name it.... People in every corner of this country know what a parsi is even if they have never met one!!...
...Ratan TATA, Soli Sorabjee, Meher Jesias, Nariman contractor etc. are just a few among many famous names from this miniscular community
( I am sure they wouldnt have achieved this level of success if they too had a dictatorial baboonic leader like the bohris have)

What I mean is that bohris in general are prosperous but there is a limit to which they can grow...NO BODY MAKES IT REAL BIG...this is true even in this present phase of "education" in the community when there is a rat race for engineerng and medical degrees......I wonder if this "glass ceiling" is deliberately put by the mulla to prevent his followers from acquiring a stature big enough to challenge him...

The only two bohris(in biological sense) whom I can read about in national level newspapers is Mr Engineer and Mr. Ghulam Noon of England....the former's credentials are well known and the latter too is pretty anti kothar...(BUT when mulla burhanuddin's wife died in England, these kothari rats shamelessly went to Mr. Ghulam Noon for using his political connections to get the desired piece of land in London to bury the old lady..)

[mbohra]

And some of the others:

Sir Adamjee Peerbhoy;
Sir Yusufali Karimjee Jivanjee;
Sir Tayebali Karimjee Jivanjee;
Hatim Alavi, one of the founders of Pakistan; Alibhai Mulla Jeevanjee (AMJ)of East Africa (Read his life story:
"Challenge to Colonialism" which encompasses the struggle of one Bohra Businessman, a philanthropist and a fighter for equal rights in Kenya. Through her well-researched work, the author Zarina Patel, has demonstrated the important role played by the Indians in the early resistance to the colonial rule in Kenya.

Needless to say that all of the above Bohri luminaries were emancipated and progressive Bohris.

[Alislam]

" Did anyone notice that inspite of a strength of one million, no bohri has yet achieved any exceptional feat? "

You are/were a bohri and what have you achieved ??

Bohras have excelled in many fields and if you are not aware then it is your problem.

Achieve/Success only means loads of money to you or is there any other criteria to measure success.
The are so many docotrs, engineers, chartered accountants, lawyers, IT professionals, buinessmen etc from among the community.

It is a highly progressive community according to any standard.

[porus]

Originally posted by Alislam:

The are so many docotrs, engineers, chartered accountants, lawyers, IT professionals, buinessmen etc from among the community.

Indeed, there are many. Since these same professions are widely distributed among all the communities of the world, it cannot be solely due to the teachings of Aqa Moula.

The point is: To what extent is his teaching directly attributable to a major impact on humanity. It could be as simple as taking care of the dying in Kolkata like Mother Teresa or hughly influential doctrines of Karl Marx. What comes to mind?

By the way, I am not impressed by building of hospitals or other monuments to glorify the dead.

[Average Bohra]

Frankly I don't care who the hospital glorifies; every third world country benefits with the addition of a hospital, any hospital , regardless of who it is named after. What bothers me are the attempts at irrelevant glorification of a healthcare institution such as hj786 saying " "One of the newest and most modern" not the newest and most modern, there’s a difference , and by new I meant the recent building which was inaugurated by PM of India. ,

or Akeel posting " one of the tallest and it doesn’t look that high but the height of the building is not only taken by what it is above ground but also the basements

Kinda like me saying, I said I was one of the best basketball players, I know I am 4'0" tall , but I am great when the rest of the players are blindfolded, boy watch me DUNK! or more relevant to me Tiger Woods ? Huh ! Watch me playing in the Masters Tournament for the Aged, I kick some BUTT at 42 when the rest of the players are 82 ! [perhaps I should say 92, based on my Golf game ]

In all seriousness, I would rather be at a single story drive-up hospital in Dublin, OH than a 100 story hospital in Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan or India. What we are missing are the critical statistics; Do the have a Trauma Center, ICU, Sleep Disorder Clinic, and what are the qualifications of the Doctors and how are they recruiting the elite (if they are) ?

The comments I have seen simply cheapen and diminish the significance of this lucrative and useful business enterprise.

[tahir]

The point is: To what extent is his teaching directly attributable to a major impact on humanity

It is precisely the preachings of mulla burhanuddin which prevents the bohris from attaining the extra ordinary and contributing to the society and humanity at large (even the professionals are all ordinary doctors, engineers, CAs etc)....he tries to inculcate a strong security seeking behaviour in the members of the community...so while they do attain ordinary wealth by taking precaution in every step, they almost never do something extraordinary....this security seeking behaviour is leveraged by the mulla to keep them tightly bound in the cult and fulfil all of his illegitimate demands...the castrated bullocks just shiver in their pants at the thought of excommunication

These guys also lack strong character...they are just mealy mouthed and flow where the wind blows...they try to put up a goodie goodie image in front of all other communities and so never take a stand...all they are bothered about is their "dukan" and the daily "jaman"....this is precisely what the mulla wants them to do and the euphemism used for such a behaviour is "peace loving"... ...he has kept them highly insular

Also they are very irresponsible to the government of the state they live in and the society in general....the highest amount of electricity pilfration happens in bohri localities and bohri traders are the biggest evaders of income tax...I can clearly see the mulla's character reflecting in every individual follower....in India, the collection of taxes by any institution except the government is illigal and unconstitutional....the bohri establishment is running an unconstitutional parallel government here...the pious mulla has no qualms in violating the laws of the land

These chaps also act funny at times...The most unruly lot at the haj terminal in jeddah (after the hajj) is that of bohris....they fight bloody wars for occupying the window seat in the chartered flights to the subcontinet...also they spread litter in the plane and spill water in the plane bathrooms inspite of repeated warnings by the plane crew...

[Apnawala]

I agree with you guys.Most of the bohris in middle east are voilating the laws of the country...They are either on maid or driver's visa and they are working as sales man and which is inlegal....they sale goods from house to house which is illegal in some middle east country...they pick passanger on road which is illegal....

I have a story i want to share with you guys...
My son's driver happens to be a long beared bohri...who must have given thousands of dinars as Vaajebaat,Sabeel etc etc...but unfortunately last month his sponsor cheated him and cancelled his Residency and hence he had to pay some penalties to renew it...when he approached Our beloved Amil saheb for karze hasana of one hundred dinar he was told to keep jewellary...and since he didn't have jewellary he didn't get a single penny from them .now just imagine they don't trust a long beared bohri FOR 100 Dinar and the guy who has contributed thousands of KD over years ...I really feel pitty these guys.

[trance]

tahir,

change your name , if you show such hatred towards Bohras , have the balls to change your name ! Why keep and identify yourself with a revered name such as Taher !

You are not worthy of such name, I can suggest a few.
....

and all the other offensive expletives that spring to evryones mind.

administrator how can you allow this idiot to swear such expletives and let him get away with it, im sure many bohras non bohras muddais muslims marry their first cousin , why the incestual remark. (from his previous remarks)

Throw this tosser out of the forum.

If he comes any way in the London well show him !

<small>[ 06-08-2005, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: Admin ]</small>

[akeel]

another stupid topic started by stupidest of them all......well done tahir.....keep up the dumb work...it will help you in the long run

[tahir]

trance says

Why keep and identify yourself with a revered name such as Taher

Are you talking about the greedy father of a super greedy son who fought a court battle for illegitimately acquiring the rights of a "galla"?? ( I can imagine him with a begging bowl)....I am really ashamed to share the name with such a #@*$......but I can draw some consolation from the fact that I spell it as "tahir"

No wonder such thugs are "revered" by an army of a million unethical insular dumbwits....

[Invincible]

Bohris may not have made a big name in particular field but we definetely have a great respect and dignity in the world.

Bill clinton is aware of bohris, and so is Goerge Bush gave warm welcome to Mowla. Dawoodi Bohras are the most respectable community in the UAE because of our pride and love of mowla. now you fucking idiots keep on barking. our love to mowla is growing more of your hatred and jelousy

[Average Bohra]

Fiction:

Bohris may not have made a big name in particular field but we definitely have a great respect and dignity in the world.

Fact: No one knows who the Bohris are. Most just know Sunnis & Shiahs and now Wahabis, nothing beyond that. (That may not necessarily be a bad thing)

Propaganda:

Bill clinton is aware of bohris

Fact: Bill Clinton is aware of all groups that contribute to his political campaign. He is more aware of groups that pay $5000/plate just to ask him to greet the Dai at the airport (which he didn't)

Fiction:

Goerge Bush gave warm welcome to Mowla

Fact: He turned down request to greet the Dai at the airport, sent a generic plaque instead.

Incidentally, I find it odd that even if you are respected in UAE, you assume it is not your character and contribution but attribute it to your pride and love of mowla. Abandoning your personal identity in exchange for a group affiliation is indicative of a cult.

[Invincible]

average bohra

it is true dawoodi bohra are in minority but many know bohra through mowla muhamed burhanudin. The whole world knows sunnis and wahabbis for their strict code of Islamic and participation in terorism, Shia's are considered relatively tolerant, Dawoodi bohra are well known as peacful and law abiding citizens. I am quite sure noone know who are progressive bohra, probbaly classified as bunch of gay progressive muslims.

Clinton did not arrive at the airport to greet mowla, so has never an american president accepted to greet any dignitaries at the airport but a few at the white house, which jamaat representative in huston have.

Goerge bush sent a plaque and so together mowla was recieved by the governor of Texas for official welcome for the ashara in huston, with the golden key. I am sure noone knows who is Lain engineer nor anyone will recieve that bastard.

The mere fact is the jeolosy of progressive bohras cant accept the reality. Although we may not be the best in any field, in overall the dawodi bohra community since aqua mowla burhanudin era has excelled and prospered. Dawaat is more stronger and becoming more stronger.

[Average Bohra]

Invincible,

mowla was recieved by the governor of Texas for official welcome for the ashara in huston, with the golden key

The Governor of Texas has never met with the Dai, let alone visit him for any “official” welcome. Even the Mayor of Houston Lee Brown at the time turned down the invite, the person that really met with him was Jew Don Boney Jr. who was Mayor Pro Tem. I trust that you are merely misinformed as I would hate to think that you would lie about documented facts. Here is the documentation from your own site (http://www.malumaat.com/pics/houston/pic4.jpg )

jeolosy of progressive bohras cant accept the reality

I am no longer a Bohra (Progressive or otherwise), perhaps the Progressives don’t accept your reality because it is not real {as I proved above} ?

dawodi bohra community since aqua mowla burhanudin era has excelled and prospered

So have other communities who have far surpassed the Bohras and all other Muslims and they are not even Muslims ! So take the credit for your own hard work and don’t bestow credit where it doesn’t belong ( I am trying to pay you a complement here; take it.)

I respect Dr. Engineer (though I don't agree with his movement) in that he has provided a forum where I can correct your propaganda but more importantly, educate you in the process.

[Invincible]

Average bohra
first of all teh Dr enginer you respect is the biggest of the bastard ever, secondly our prosperity of dawaat cannot soley be attributed to hardwork. Bohris were hardworking merchants ever since but it is the dua of our mowla who constantly guides us in every decision we do, teh kind of buisness we do, abstinence from usury, earn your hardworking money, not to gamble. this teaching has brought blessing from allah subanalah that we have prospered. you idiot wont understand the significance of dua of dai coz you dont have the faith in the first place.

you said there is no reality, the reality is that you have to have faith in dai. A muslim cannot prove existence of Allah scientifically but in conscious he understands the divinity of allah. Just coz he can't does not mean there is no reality. I am infering to your reply which you said there is no reality in progressive bohras. YOU Should have FAITH.

[tahir]

A guy who used to poke cigar into a white house intern and another one whose passtime is to bomb schools and hospitals in the middle east happen to know the head of these million morons....and look how happy they get...

[tahir]

PETTINESS THY NAME IS DAWAT....these chaps derive pride in all the petty and superficial things of the world like political dignitaries visiting their functions (for their own political reasons), construction of physical infrastructure (by blood money), getting some coverage on television etc. etc.

I wish they get some substance and do some real spiritual progress instead of just superficial material (and petty) one....BUT for that this leadership has to go....

[Invincible]

Tahir
your ... commensense is so marvelous, even a donkey can laugh on you.

if you dont have any logical to argue its better you keep your mouth shut since you are a ... idiot.

I dont know about the white house story what i do know that dawaat is well know in the world.

<small>[ 06-09-2005, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Admin ]</small>

[akeel]

invincible just want to tell you one thing.....
We dont really need to abuse and stoop to their level. I am sure i can debate and win on any legitimate facts that they can come with and i m sure you can do the same so i m just waiting for a sane and mature arguement and my wait continues so i am just askign you to refrain from any bad language and also all the other mainstream Bohras. We can take on these progressives by their horns so why dirty our mouths in the process.
Thank you

[akeel]

and tahir u i have no hope of getting anything smart out of your mouth......before you talk about the DAWAT and the spriritual aspect of it .....please look into yourself and tell me what progress you are making on that front......c mon i see the engineer guy talkin on TV about Triple talaq and all that ....thats what use if of you people......talk about things we have long foregone. and you all are progressives ....RIGHT!

[Admin]

Dear Invincible,

Please refrain from using abusive language. If you continue to do so you'll force us to ban you from this Forum.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Admin.

[spot]

a clarification to what mbohra wrote and the crux of this topic by tahir:

Sir Adamjee Peerbhoy
-he was a devoted followers of dai saifuddin.

Sir Yusufali Karimjee Jivanjee, Sir Tayebali Karimjee Jivanjee, Hatim Alavi
-not sure of their history

Alibhai Mulla Jeevanjee
-devoted follower of the current dai.

with the starting of this post, it would be fair to say tahir either doesn't know many bohras or is very ill informed. bohras are very low key...but there bohras industrialist who are very wealthy and very influential in the world at large.

[tahir]

Spot says

bohras are very low key...but there bohras industrialist who are very wealthy and very influential in the world at large.

Had u cared to read my posts properly u wud have known that I do not deny the wealth of bohras...the point is ARE THEY KNOWN FOR ANY CONTRIBUTION TO HUMANITY? have they made any difference except filling their own coffers and channelling a chunk of it to the greedy dawat thereby abetting the exploitaton of common bohras?..they prefer to remain low key because after acquiring wealth, they almost always get close to kothar and the former's coming in limelight may also bring the hideaous acts of kothar (and the mulla) in light....the dark sultanate of the devil sees threat....this "low key" is then euphemised as "humility"

[mbohra]

Spot: re-clarification of your clarifications!

Both Sir Adamjee Peerbhoy and Alibhai Mulla Jeevanjee died during the reign of the "current" dai's dad Syedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb.

All of the luminaries mentioned previously were devoted Dawoodi Bohras, and hence devoted followers of the Dais. However, the Kotharis, to wrestle away the wealth and the very efficiently ran Jamaat administration and the Jamaat properties declared these selfless and unselfish community workers to be "Muddais" and "barrated"/ex-communicated them. The Saifee Mahal and Saifee Hospital was "wakaffed " or trust properties given to the Bohra Community by Sir Adamjee Peerbhoy. These properties, among others, have now been misappropriated and transferred to the Dawat-e-haadiya a.k.a. Syedna's immediate family.

The Kothar now, for reasons best known to themselves, curses laanats on these divine human beings.

[akeel]

tahir you very conviniently ignored all the mess you made in your previosu post which spot highlighted and then took a subtle line and made a fuss of it . in that regard u are a genius. making a mountain out of a mole hill.and the same poitn again. Why is everything so suprficial to you. It has to be on the news channels and on every paper for it to be called service to humanity. and stop maknignt hat sound like an obligation man you don really know what to say do u ...so keep sayin the same thing over and over again till we start agrreeing ...its not working dude

[spot]

tahir,
my point was as akeel wrote...bohras (ortho or reform) are known throughout india and pakistan specifically and throught the world generally as peace, kind and GENEROUS people. when the floods and more recently earthquakes in gujarat happens..it was the bohras housing other bohras, hindus, muslim, etc in the musafir khannas, dargah and in their homes. NO it wasn't publicized or extensively promote..but it happens..and all in the background.

sir adamji was like any other bohra, he just had a lot more to share with the people. this is common knowledge.

an i was thinking of anwar ali bhai jivajee, the uncle that published a book of his life experience from africa to karachi to the usa "FROM SALESMAN TO CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER--The trials and travels of Anazje". sorry.

[spot]

and mbohra
sir adamji bhai was never referred to as a muddai. in the recent relay of maula during his milad...he called him bhai adamji and that he was a khidmat guzar of dai tahir saifuddin.

[anajmi]

I would love to hear from people who question the bohra community's, or individual's contribution to humanity, about their own contributions towards humanity.

[JC]

Hi guys,

I agree with Tahir and Average Bohra.

Anajmi

you are right when u ask us of our own contributions. Apnay Apany Garayban May Bhee Jhankhan Chaheay. Right.

But we are individuals and we do whatever little we could.
MAULA is SUPPOSE to be our leader and he and his followers CLAIM he has done ssssooooo mcuh, so we are simply discussing what he has done. Whatever little standing, wherever possible, he has and wherever and whatever bohras are know as or for, what is the community's contribution towards humanity. Leave that too, what does Bohraism stand for - Sajjdas to Maula, Grave Worshiping, Idol Worshipping, Believing Maula will help us after death, believing Matam will take us to Jannat, Making Hussain Christ of Bohraism, what do we stand for, are we Muslims, if yes, how, if no, what are we.

I would rather be a good human being, may be Wahabi (this is gonna anger AB..!!)

[porus]

Originally posted by anajmi:
I would love to hear from people who question the bohra community's, or individual's contribution to humanity, about their own contributions towards humanity.

A sarcastic, but a very apt question.

There is no question that everyone alive makes some contribution to humanity, even if it is as mundane as raising a family.

But the question is concerned with the impact that the "teachings, faith and beliefs of Bohras" have had on world outside of Bohras.

My own observation is that Bohras themselves do not know enough about their own "teachings and philosophy" to be able to make a significant impact. Two generations of Jamia graduates have merely produced sycophants. Look at their literary output and you will find the greatest accolades go to those who write qasidas in praise of Sayedna and similar works.

Where among ordinary Bohras do you find discussion of Fatimid philosophy that underpins their faith?