Bohra Madrasa, the start of abde ideology

[Al Zulfiqar]

shapur,

you know very well what brother sbm means. there was no need to go into a long-winded explanation of the word mola.

for abde bohras, mola means only one thing, the reigning dai. period. and that mola (the dai) is whom they appeal to and whom they thank for their health, wealth and prosperity, not allah, the rabbul aalameen.

[shapur]

shapur,

you know very well what brother sbm means. there was no need to go into a long-winded explanation of the word mola.

for abde bohras, mola means only one thing, the reigning dai. period. and that mola (the dai) is whom they appeal to and whom they thank for their health, wealth and prosperity, not allah, the rabbul aalameen.

As a 4-month old toddler its difficult to make out from the fence who's to the left and the right of it and which is a genuine or a cynical observation especially after this new phenomenon of people frequently switching courts.

And in a way SBM has a point because God is referred to as maula in some parts of the qur'an to mean lord or master but its not a name per se - hence the explanation.

[Bohra spring]

Moaula in adbe means master..ie why they are disagreeing the use of words like Mazoon Maula .

Maula is only reserved for the dia in Bohra case and hence is aligned to lord.

It is uncommon for Bohras to refer the Prophet SAW as Maula ? Why

[Grayson]

*Note: It's not uncommon to refer to the prophet as Moula along with the Panjatan and other Sahaba/Ahl ul Bayt. As stated the use of the word depends on the context and likely also the intention of the person using it.

[Al Zulfiqar]

*Note: It's not uncommon to refer to the prophet as Moula along with the Panjatan and other Sahaba/Ahl ul Bayt. As stated the use of the word depends on the context and likely also the intention of the person using it.

have you lost your marbles alongwith your grey matter my son? have you ever heard any bohra refer to the prophet as 'mola muhammad' or 'mola rasulallah'?!

remember we are referring to abde bohras here, not sunni's or other shia's.

[Grayson]

Er... perhaps you're mistaken here. Many people grew up reciting the Panjatans name (Moulana Mohammed, Moulana Ali, Moulatena Fatema, Moulana Hasan, Moulana Hussain) usually before going to sleep. Friends and family of mine as well as myself. Perhaps it's not as widespread as I thought, but it does exist.

Even in bayans when referring to certain sahaba such as Moulana Salman al-Farsi, Moulana Mohammed ibn Abu Bakr and Moulana Ammar ibn Yasir. 'Moula' is the word that's used.

[Al Zulfiqar]

Many people grew up reciting Moulana Mohammed, ....before going to sleep. Friends and family of mine as well as myself.

so we have identified your problem. recite and now go back to sleep where you can indulge abundantly in your delusions of self-grandeur. it is highly comical to see you adopting the extreme stance of being all goody-goody, neutral and unbiased about everything in every post and pontificating as a final authority on issues when you have either no knowledge or sketchy and doubtful knowledge at best. who gave you the authority to be the judge, jury and executioner on this board, that you dismiss, doubt and question every damn thing and make it out as if everyone here is a fool, except you?

when you are being 'screwed' royally by the clergy, do you maintain that same neutrality and 'i need proof' attitude, when you are being steamrolled? and please stop with that highly irritating torturous language. is it possible for you to speak in simple, short sentences and less bombastic english? we are not all fools here you know, and can see through your ego-maniacal nonsense.

[Grayson]

Cut and paste. Create a narrative that fits your agenda. Slander and subsequently refuse to refute any contentious point by further insult and abuse. Typical Al Z, a true paragon of Progression.

[humanbeing]

Dear AZ
Most of the member on this forum enjoy your verbal onslaught as long as its humorous. But lately you have been ridiculing members who does not align with your thoughts or approach. It is difficult to make the difference between your satire and ridicule because it has become so common.

There are many fence sitters visiting this forum who are yet to make up their mind about kothar Inc. Emotionally they are still connected to “royal family” or mutated way of bohra life. There is a sense of denial selectively. A little success of this forum is atleast they come here and begin to agree with wrong practices of kothar slow and steadily.

You may or may not be an official spokesperson of this forum but you are definitely a consistent one. I enjoy your postings, but many a times you are downright insulting members in your own talented writing.

Kothar may be your enemy not abdes who have taken an initiative to visit this forum. They may have come to defend kothar and in turn would have changed thier opinion, or atleast go back embarrassed when met with decent / credible arguments.

Few victims of your onslaught are : Grayson, Zinger, Abde53, think, bohra spring etc even though they agree with corruption in kothar, yet other opinions/ideas/thoughts are ridiculed.

Haath dho kar piche pad gaye ho !

Thanks for reading

HB

[as2153]

Grayson is correct about the use of "moulana" in reciting panjatan na nam. We certainly did the same thing growing up.

[Mamluk-E-Syedna]

Many people grew up reciting Moulana Mohammed, ....before going to sleep. Friends and family of mine as well as myself.

so we have identified your problem. recite and now go back to sleep where you can indulge abundantly in your delusions of self-grandeur. it is highly comical to see you adopting the extreme stance of being all goody-goody, neutral and unbiased about everything in every post and pontificating as a final authority on issues when you have either no knowledge or sketchy and doubtful knowledge at best. who gave you the authority to be the judge, jury and executioner on this board, that you dismiss, doubt and question every damn thing and make it out as if everyone here is a fool, except you?

when you are being 'screwed' royally by the clergy, do you maintain that same neutrality and 'i need proof' attitude, when you are being steamrolled? and please stop with that highly irritating torturous language. is it possible for you to speak in simple, short sentences and less bombastic english? we are not all fools here you know, and can see through your ego-maniacal nonsense.

Hey, Al Dhul-Fitqaar. Do you ever pray/recite Taqarrub Doa or Azaan or Iqaamat? If you did, you'd find your answer as to since how long and how often we refer to our Rasul and his Wasi / Vali as our "Maulana". So, stop your childish BS, and chill out.

[SBM]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mawl%C4%81n%C4%81
If Maulana and Moula are same, can you call Allah as Mawlana? Mawlana Allah........hum..............

[Grayson]

Moualana simply adds "na" to Moula in order to indicate "our."
Considering the Quranic reference in the article, what you say is correct in regards to language. But a lot also depends on your intent in using it.
When I say Maulana Ali, I do not equate him to God; it's my way of referring to him as a saintly figure I look up on. My lord, more than my master. The niyyat in usage says more than difference in interpretation of the word on it's own.

[SBM]

It seems that mainly Shias and Sufis use the adjective of Moula in front of Ali while Sunnis use either Imam or Hazarat. I have not seen or read where Moula was ever used for any Khalifas or Ahle-Bayt amongst majority of Muslim Ummah. When it comes to Hussain, Moula is used only in Marsiya even among Shias and Sufis, when they refer to Hussain they either Shahid-e-Karbala or Imam and I think even Sunni use Imam when referring to Hussain
AGAIN I AM NOT A SCHOLAR BUT THIS IS MY OBSERVATION

[wise_guy]

It seems that mainly Shias and Sufis use the adjective of Moula in front of Ali while Sunnis use either Imam or Hazarat. I have not seen or read where Moula was ever used for any Khalifas or Ahle-Bayt amongst majority of Muslim Ummah. When it comes to Hussain, Moula is used only in Marsiya even among Shias and Sufis, when they refer to Hussain they either Shahid-e-Karbala or Imam and I think even Sunni use Imam when referring to Hussain
AGAIN I AM NOT A SCHOLAR BUT THIS IS MY OBSERVATION

yaar.. ab toh Ali saheb (SAW) /Rasulullah (SAW) ko bhi Maula (jiska matlab hai leader) bolne me bhi problem hai inko... Is this a progressive DB forum or a Taliban or Wahabi forum ?

[Grayson]

The wikipedia entry you linked to addresses that as well. The entry under "Difference in titles Mullah and Maulvi among Muslims in South Asia" describes it well along with why some people find it controversial. The rest of the article is also relevant information that's interesting. I think as long as people don't mean it in shirk, it's rather harmless usage. Like you, I'm not a scholar but this is my observation (and ponderings).

[SBM]

It seems that mainly Shias and Sufis use the adjective of Moula in front of Ali while Sunnis use either Imam or Hazarat. I have not seen or read where Moula was ever used for any Khalifas or Ahle-Bayt amongst majority of Muslim Ummah. When it comes to Hussain, Moula is used only in Marsiya even among Shias and Sufis, when they refer to Hussain they either Shahid-e-Karbala or Imam and I think even Sunni use Imam when referring to Hussain
AGAIN I AM NOT A SCHOLAR BUT THIS IS MY OBSERVATION

yaar.. ab toh Ali saheb (SAW) /Rasulullah (SAW) ko bhi Maula (jiska matlab hai leader) bolne me bhi problem hai inko... Is this a progressive DB forum or a Taliban or Wahabi forum ?

Think outside the box, if some one has intelligent conversation it does not make them Kafir-Wahabi-Salafi Donot label the people just because they are expressing their views and a healthy discussion

[wise_guy]

yaar.. ab toh Ali saheb (SAW) /Rasulullah (SAW) ko bhi Maula (jiska matlab hai leader) bolne me bhi problem hai inko... Is this a progressive DB forum or a Taliban or Wahabi forum ?

Think outside the box, if some one has intelligent conversation it does not make them Kafir-Wahabi-Salafi Donot label the people just because they are expressing their views and a healthy discussion

I want to ask you the same question: why are then normal bohras who post their comments and views labelled as die hard abdes, non muslims etc etc... and discussing why Panjatan shouldn't be called Maula is not an intelligent discussion but a simple & naive one...