Are Aga Khani's better than us?

[ghulam muhammed]

We are not allowed to drink and smoke.

Although I don't contradict your statement but I have seen Khojas running wine shops, there was one at 2 Tanks (2 taaki) opp. Paradise hotel bhendi bazar by the name of Sultana Wines also having a full size photo of Aga Khan and I believe that the Faryas, Heritage and Saahil Hotels which serve alcohol is owned by Khojas too.

[blue]

regarding aga khani's and their similarities with today's bohras following may be useful:
http://www.mostmerciful.com/book-1.htm

[blue]

We are not allowed to drink and smoke.

Although I don't contradict your statement but I have seen Khojas running wine shops, there was one at 2 Tanks (2 taaki) opp. Paradise hotel bhendi bazar by the name of Sultana Wines also having a full size photo of Aga Khan and I believe that the Faryas, Heritage and Saahil Hotels which serve alcohol is owned by Khojas too.

i am quoting from the book Link of which is given above about wine in aga khani's culture:
To make it more convincing for Ismaili readers, who may be sceptical about the historical documents recorded by non-Ismaili authors, I am quoting a passage from a history book written by a senior Ismaili missionary, Abualy A. Aziz, entitled A Brief History of Ismailism, p.73:

Mowla'na Ima'm Hasan Ala'Zikrihis Salaam declared the Youm-el-Qiya'ma, the Day of Resurrection, which was held on the nineteenth of Ramaza'n, 559 a.h. (10th of August, 1164). Thousands upon thousands of Ismai'ilis came from all corners of the world to attend this important day of resurrection of the holy faith. The Holy Ima'm declared...
“Today I have explained to you the Law [shari'at] and its meaning. I make you free from the rigidity of the Law and resurrect you from the bondage of the letter to the freedom of the spirit of the Law. Obey me and follow my farma'n.... Break your fast and rejoice. This is the day of utmost happiness and gratitude.”
Prior to the Declaration, Hasan II was designated as heir to Da`i Muhammad bin Buzurg-Ummid. Following the declaration, Hasan II initiated a new phase in history and became a Khalifa (deputy) of the hidden Imam, a rank higher than Da`i and a Hujja (proof) with a clear authority to command. His words were to be deemed as that of the Imam. Hasan II is known in the history books as Qa'im al-qiyama (Bringer of the Resurrection).
History records that it was a Friday in the holy month of Ramadhan. Hasan descended from the minbar (pulpit), offered two rak'at of prayers and asked his followers to break their fasts in the middle of the day and join him in the afternoon banquet, which included drinking of wine. Followers broke their fasts and joined Hasan in merrymaking. The Shari`ah laws were abolished from that day, and every year the 17th (19th, according to Abualy) of Ramadhan was celebrated as 'id-i Qiyamat, the Festival of the Resurrection.

[salim]

Dear DB-Londoner,

How do you feel about the Aga Khan getting divorced and the fact his father was a playboy etc?

I may have felt said about the hard time he was going through when he got divorced, but over all we do not have a lot of interest in his family. For us that is his physical family, and we are his spiritual family. Because of the amount of time he gives to his spiritual family, his physical family might have to suffer. About his father being playboy, even some of prophet Muhammad's relatives had indulged not so good things. And this is true for many of Imam's brothers as well. I don't think this bothers me. His father is responsible for his own deeds.

Do Ismailis complain that he could use more money for charitable work instead of spending it on private jets and personal mansions etc?

It is his money, he can use however he wants. The jet and mansions are not from donations we give him. He owns very profitable business. He never uses ismaili money. His mension is not very lavish. I think he needs a jet, because he travel so much. Many times he travel, 3 countries in one day. Aga Khan Foundation is established in 25 different countries. Renting a plan is not worth it. Buying tickets will not suit his schedule. I am happy he has a jet. He paid for his jet, but uses it for Foundation work.

Do Ismailis get to meet the Aga Khan very often? Is there always a big fuss made over him and a big entourage which asks people for money to see him?

It is very easy to meet Aga Khan. He is very down to earth. I have been to his office once. I have seen him standing in a queue with other workers in his own office for lunch. I have seen him cleaning his own table and putting the plates back to cleaning bin. Why would anyone have to pay money to see him.

Do you know how large the Ismaili community is worldwide? Are there many poor Ismailis anywhere?

Yes ismailis are all over the world, there are approximate 15 million of us. Depending on who is counting and how they are defining a ismaili, the number 15 million can go up or down. Yes there are poor ismailis. Because of war with russia and then taliban, ismailis of afghanistan lost everything. They were very poor. They have started to settle. Tajikistan, uzbekistan, other broken USSR countries has a lot of poor ismailis. Their education was fully funded by aga khan, so now they are becoming prosperous. Syria has good ismaili population, which is now suffering. Iran has good size of ismaili population which is also having hard time with bad economy.

[salim]

We are not allowed to drink and smoke.

Although I don't contradict your statement but I have seen Khojas running wine shops, there was one at 2 Tanks (2 taaki) opp. Paradise hotel bhendi bazar by the name of Sultana Wines also having a full size photo of Aga Khan and I believe that the Faryas, Heritage and Saahil Hotels which serve alcohol is owned by Khojas too.

I agree with you. In US as well there are people who are in grocery store business and there, they have to sell liquor as well. I think it is ok to own a grocery store, but it is not a good idea to have a liquor store. But we are still not allowed to drink and smoke. I don't know the official stand of Ismailis on selling alcohol. But when it comes for drinking it I am sure Ismaili community runs a lot of Programs that try to keep Ismailis away from Alcohol. In ismailis it is harm because it is a destructive habit, specially when you are addicted and when you drink and drive and when you drink and do other harmful things. But we ismailis do not reject medicines which have alcohol in it. We do clean our hands with sanitizer which have alcohol in it. If someone drink they don't become non-ismailis but we prefer them not to drink for theirs and their family's health and well-being.

Back to the point of selling alcohol. For many Christians/Jews it is not bad to drink wine. Some Christians community do offer wine in their church. It is similar to halal food and pork. Islam don't allow consuming this but other religions do allow. Ismailis do not like to enforce their values on others. If their religion does not stop them from drinking then so be it. Ismalis are not going to force them to stop drinking. AKDN is an agency that works for people of all religions and they do have programms that promote people from not drinking alcohol/drugs for all religions. Ismailis do not have strong hold in west to force them to stop drinking nor do Ismailis believe in forcing anything on anyone. Just because they drink we are not going to stop them from coming to our hotels. Alas whenever we get a chance to convey the message that Alcohol is bad and we think that the listener is ready to listen we do let them know that drinking alcohol hurts their health. We do not believe that rejecting people who drink alcohol outright will help Islam. We try to be nice and let them drink if they want to, but ismaili hotels try to make sure that their customer don't drink and then drive. Ismaili hotels try to make sure that there is no prostitution along with drinking. So in a way they are restricting people but are not being very strict. We believe that being strict is not a solution. We believe that things progress in steps. We don't have power to call cold turkey on all those who drink.

[badrijanab]

Although I don't contradict your statement but I have seen Khojas running wine shops, there was one at 2 Tanks (2 taaki) opp. Paradise hotel bhendi bazar by the name of Sultana Wines also having a full size photo of Aga Khan and I believe that the Faryas, Heritage and Saahil Hotels which serve alcohol is owned by Khojas too.

I agree with you. In US as well there are people who are in grocery store business and there, they have to sell liquor as well. I think it is ok to own a grocery store, but it is not a good idea to have a liquor store. But we are still not allowed to drink and smoke. I don't know the official stand of Ismailis on selling alcohol. But when it comes for drinking it I am sure Ismaili community runs a lot of Programs that try to keep Ismailis away from Alcohol. In ismailis it is harm because it is a destructive habit, specially when you are addicted and when you drink and drive and when you drink and do other harmful things. But we ismailis do not reject medicines which have alcohol in it. We do clean our hands with sanitizer which have alcohol in it. If someone drink they don't become non-ismailis but we prefer them not to drink for theirs and their family's health and well-being.

Back to the point of selling alcohol. For many Christians/Jews it is not bad to drink wine. Some Christians community do offer wine in their church. It is similar to halal food and pork. Islam don't allow consuming this but other religions do allow. Ismailis do not like to enforce their values on others. If their religion does not stop them from drinking then so be it. Ismalis are not going to force them to stop drinking. AKDN is an agency that works for people of all religions and they do have programms that promote people from not drinking alcohol/drugs for all religions. Ismailis do not have strong hold in west to force them to stop drinking nor do Ismailis believe in forcing anything on anyone. Just because they drink we are not going to stop them from coming to our hotels. Alas whenever we get a chance to convey the message that Alcohol is bad and we think that the listener is ready to listen we do let them know that drinking alcohol hurts their health. We do not believe that rejecting people who drink alcohol outright will help Islam. We try to be nice and let them drink if they want to, but ismaili hotels try to make sure that their customer don't drink and then drive. Ismaili hotels try to make sure that there is no prostitution along with drinking. So in a way they are restricting people but are not being very strict. We believe that being strict is not a solution. We believe that things progress in steps. We don't have power to call cold turkey on all those who drink.

One of the most important book of Ismaili is Daimul Islam and it clearly forbidden every aspect of indulging in alcohol with exception of life saving situation. Hence Nizari's are not in compliance with Daimul Islam!

[salim]

One of the most important book of Ismaili is Daimul Islam and it clearly forbidden every aspect of indulging in alcohol with exception of life saving situation. Hence Nizari's are not in compliance with Daimul Islam!

I agree with you. I don't know where it says in Diamul islam that we should not sell alcohol, but we don't need Diamul Islam for that, it is common sense that one should not indulge in alcohol. Alcohol hurts your health, family relationship and sometimes moral values as well. And Nizaris are not allowed to do that. But some Nizaris still do it. I know many other muslims who indulge in this business. I think having a liquor store is not a good idea, but I think it is ok to have a grocery or hotel. As far as you are not promoting or forcing people to buy alcohol. Many Christians serve wine ni their church, how are you going to say those Christians, hey if you are christian, go to some other grocery. That is even worse.

If you have a grocery, I think you should not sell illegal alcohol. Also you should make sure that the label on Alcohol bottle says - "harmsful for health". I think, if people still indulge in that, you don't have to disrespect them. Diamul Islam is big time against compulsion. Rather than just closing your grocery doors for those who drink, it is better idea to let them come in, make friendship with them and then slowly take them away from alcohol. check out quran. Even Allah did that. First Allah did not ban Alcohol altogether. He took the arabs through a process, first he asked them not to drink alcohol at the time of prayer.

Also my dear friend, have you seen the pollution level of India, Pakistan, Indonesia (3 countries with most Muslim population). All the non-smokers smoke everyday because of the pollution. Which is worse than drinking in moderation. And I am not supporting drinking, I am just saying that pollution will hurt you more. Only because this issue was not there when Diamul Islam was made does not mean it is fine to own a car which leaks pollution like crazy.

[seeker110]

As a business man myself, one provides whatever the market calls for, I wouldnt do it because I have no means and reasons , I may not want it for myself but others should have choice in the matter. Sometimes you need many tools.

[shaz]

I just happened to search for Aga khan on google and came through this. I have never ever seen such a good defense by an ismaili individual (user) like salim. There are very rare individuals like him. Good work salim. Btw I am ismaili too and to "most extent" I see that salim is not wrong. And speaking about consuming or indulging directly or indirectly in any act of haram (alcohol etc) you can't change the world otherwise there will be always clash of democracy and religion. An individual has to choose his or her right path. God has laid the rules. Prophets has conveyed the messages of God. Imams guides you, your country creates culture and you have to derive those pearls and judge what to follow and what not.
And I have seen that at times ismailis don't have detailed answers about faith. Well, I don't want to drag this topic..but I will tell how I answered a 5-times namazi brother when he questioned my faith. He asked me, "so how many times you recite namaz". I said "my friend as per Quran we all are allowed to say Sallah..correct?". Yes. "So an ismaili is responsible to recite the Sallah (also known as dua) with 18 Rakka a day (Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Du%27a) . Is anything wrong in this?." No.
I have never ever come across any imam in islam who has asked not to follow Quran. It is all implied that you follow Quran when you follow any branch of islam. Whatever community you belong to whether its Bohra or Jafri or Ismaili you have to understand that we all belong to one main tree that is "Islam". So whether one say khuda hafiz or Allah Hafiz and I would say Rahim-hafeez or other 99 names of Allah it all will mean the same. Think about this..its all about belief

[Al Fateh]

no they are not better at all, they pay lots of money yearly and on top of that they miss islaam in their life.

[Just_a_muslim]

Aga khan is a scammer ! He fools people , tell them that he's god on earth ! Tells people that he's the qibla ! Tell the Quran is not complete !
Leads a life of opulence ! Playboy children who were in the news recently for all the wrong reasons ! Their Kalima is different to mainstream muslims. One of the main difference between aga khan and seyedna Burhanudin , is that khan is more of a liberal cult. The ismaeli people also profess their views openly , whereas the Bohras deceive people and keep it to themselves !
This openness , has led to the community being slapped with a fatwa and being dubbed "kafirs" !
One can argue this has led to even more Problems , as it has resulted in aga khans power and ego increasing , as he is now head of a religion ! Not a religious - sect !
Either way , both bohras and aga khanis all commit the heinous crime of shirk , by invoking partners beside Allah , and doing the "namaste" sign to their unscrupulous holy men.

[shaz]

To Al Fateh and & Just_a_Muslim
Your statements are just similar to an ignorant non muslim claiming that all muslims are terrorist. Also if I was on your feet I wouldn't have said to any community blindly. I am fortunate to learn the basic prayers, Nikkah, Ziyarat and Q'uran all of which are in Arabic. In my entire experience with the faith to the best of my knowledge in Ismaili or perhaps in any branch of Islam the ideology about God is there is no God except Allah. If someone has told you that MR.X is God then he is not following Islam or he is one of the ignorant who claims a wrong interpretation of Islam as we all know these days how some people are claiming Islam as. I don't want to do marketing about ismaili community but if you want to learn a high view picture of ismaili just visit the official website of the community http://www.theismaili.org or you can also visit the Ismaili centers during the official non ismaili tours and learn more about the community. I don't think any branch in Islam restricts you to get to know the true knowledge about any faith.

[marabu]

Hi
Have many Ismaili Khoja friends from east Africa...They follow to to the right path which is advocated by jamaat .It is in the past five years the emphasis has been on Quran and salat.However the ginan takes precedence...have no quarrel about it as most of them is to glorify Almighty and Imam.....Inspite of being close friends of Ismailis have not been able to attend their prayers....have no worries about it as many of my non Bohra Shias or Sunnis are not allowed in Bohra mosques....Perhaps the question is that if Islam is all inclusive why the division ?

[Just_a_muslim]

To marabu !
Fact is , only cult communities don't like inviting people from other faiths into their mosques , because of fear of them exposing their malpractices to the local head of imam in that country or region ! This is because they have a lot to hide and are afraid that mainstream would become aware of their dubious wasteful practices!
Whereas , Christians , Jews & Buddhists are allowed into orthodox mosques ! I know this for a fact because I have seen these things happening ! Many are invited for interfaith dialog & ifthar !!
You see , orthodox have nothing to hide , and it is Sunnah that we are kind and open to other communities , now do people follow this principle ? Some don't , but actually majority do !!
Sect making is PROHIBITED in the Quran !!!!
But some people want worldly gains , so they do it care free , by making their followers ignorant cattle , and tell them the Quran is incomplete or void (ASTHAGFIRLA) or has "hidden" meanings !
I can quote verses from the noble book of Allah (SWT) that state otherwise , only then you realise , how much error these gullible people are in !

[shaz]

Just_a_muslim, I think you are either a minor or you don't want to understand any rationale of any community. Your ideology doesn't stand any values. Sorry man I cannot help you, Just 1 comment and later I cannot respond to any of your comments. If Ismailis weren't so called muslims then howcome there are ismaili mosques in sunni dominated middle eastern countries? How come there is such a huge respect by any government dignitary esp in Middle east? forget industrialized nations.
Maribu: To the best of my knowledge emphasis on Quran is since Prophet's (s.a.w) time unless someone converts his faith from an non-islamic one to islamic one and blends those 2 values. I see what you experiencing from 'east-african cultured' friends. There are 15 million ismailis spreaded across different countries. So lets say as an east indian origin If I go and visit Afghanistan their basic prayers (which is 18 Rakaats straight from Quran) should remain the same but the other non mandatory literature will be in Pushto which could be termed as something else. I guess because of confidential reasons and because of a community's leader's authority the other communities are very inclusive until you accept their faith.

[mnoorani]

@ Shaz,
The Aga Khani Ismailis, do not have masjids. They only have Jamaat Khanas.

[Just_a_muslim]

@shaz !
It's true that aga khan has a lot of respect in THIS world ! The question we should ask is : why ?
Aga is an extreme philanthropist , and provides much needed infrastructure such as hospitals and schools ! It's this act of generous donations , that he has earned the respect in THIS world.
It's true that they have mosques(khana) in Sunni dominated countries.....BUT , so do the non-Muslim , as in they too have churches and temples ! Because , even though they are kaffirs , they are given some sort of religious freedom !
It's also important to note that , just because a person is respected , regardless of the government , be it saudi , Qatar or Brazil , does it mean that they are saints and holy men and their message of admonishment is factual ????!
Khan has money , and a lot of it , so it's little wonder that all governments want to kiss his cheeks ! For example ; if you visit the saudi Govt , no ones even going to bother looking at you !
So the fact is , as long as one has the money , leave aside his background , he can be an extortionist , manipulator , drug dealer & thug , he would still be respected as long as he "invests" in a country and pays them a little "something" into their Credit Suisse account !
My rationale and ideology circulated around the Quran and Sunnah ! Many have tried debunking it , and have failed miserably to this day....
What these sects in islam are doing is sad and downright wrong in the sight of Allah (SWT) and those culprits who split the deen eg ; khan & Dr Burhanudin , would be held severely accountable for their actions of division and false stories !
Allah (SWT) has himself said in the Noble and Easy to understand Quran , to BE NOT DIVIDED....
Sunni and Shia came after rasool (saws) death due to political reasons , and what happened then is the history of islam , and what's important is the Quran and Sunnah.
We don't need a mere mortal to "look over" or "guide us" , we aren't cattle , we are LOGICAL human beings ! We use the Flawless Quran and the respectable Sunnah as our guidance ,just as it has been stated , and seek protection and refuge in the most merciful , most forgiving , most beneficent...ALLAH (SWT)

[Just_a_muslim]

**Circulates

[rah e haq]

Hi
Have many Ismaili Khoja friends from east Africa...They follow to to the right path which is advocated by jamaat .It is in the past five years the emphasis has been on Quran and salat.However the ginan takes precedence...have no quarrel about it as most of them is to glorify Almighty and Imam.....Inspite of being close friends of Ismailis have not been able to attend their prayers....have no worries about it as many of my non Bohra Shias or Sunnis are not allowed in Bohra mosques....Perhaps the question is that if Islam is all inclusive why the division ?

Aga khanes dont prayer namaz, they dont fast in ramazan,, most of them can not read quran (even old people). They believe the imamte 49th imam for the lineage of Prophet Mohammad pbuh, who does every thing but does not pray namaz and his belivers say that they don need to prayer as they are pure people beacuse they are the followers of imam so are they free from sin ( They cannot commit sin at all )

And let me tell you we have one aga khane jamat khana in our area, in there social gathering in evening woman wear sarees, and young ladies some time wear tight jeans and tops and play graba during navratri in jamat kahanas

Were the hell do u see ISLAM in this

[Mkenya]

ARE THE AGA KHANIS BETTER THAN US?

How can we argue whether one religion or sect is better than another. The topic has to be boiled down to terms that can make more sense. What criteria does one apply. There has to be logical common denominators. As an extreme case what criteria do we use to compare Dawoodi Bohras to Shia Alawi faith of Syria. Let me itemise the number of criteria that we would have to put in place to start the topic. Basis of faith, lineage of faith, governance, ways of prayers, tithe system, attire, level of enlightenment, size of population, economic strength, awareness in the world's stage, international involvement and exposure.........you may add on here. The methods and ways of prayers, western dress, selling of alcohol, affinity in the Imamiyat, are broken records. There are Russian Shias that I have seen and witnessed offer namaz. Dare I ask them whether they do maatam or that they have a 'chitti' system. From their answer could I truthfully say we have some criteria to compare our Dawoodi faith to theirs?!
We Bohras have a 'frog in a pond vision'. We Bohras have only been exposed to Muslims, be they Sunni or Shias, on the Indian sub-continent and other countries where we have migrated. There is huge of Muslims out there that we not even aware of. I must end with a shairi ending.....sitaro se aage jahaan aur bhi hei...

[JavedhJuma]

I would respond but it will be deleted anyway. So go on, judge others when you cannot even put the the fire under your own feet. You speak like jahaliyas who know nothing about Ismailis. Continue and humor me. Ha! Ha!

[qutub_mamajiwala]

@rah e haq
what is wrong in wearing sarees and jeans?
islam has nothing to do with dress
it is all innovation afterwards and hence bidaa