Again you brag about this majority. What great thing has it done?
And what are achievements of Minority?
creating fitnahs?
Read history, who created Fitnah?
abolishing Islamic heritage.
Islamic heritage is only in graves and Dargahs, and personal artifacts only?
The majority who revolted against Aqa Hussain (A.S).
Again read History. Majority or Minority had no say in what happened. It was a arrogant, shelfis and mad authority in charge. They were same as Saddam and Assad. Imam Hussein was advised by elders not to go to Kufa. He trusted his supporters but they chickened out. And that is historical fact.
This same majority has ruined Islam.
in which way?
judging other sects and declaring kafirs......ummmm.
So let them.
Quran mentions Allah has given us 'Akal' think for yourself.
Why don't you practice that first. read Quran and tell me where does it say " Muhammad is king of a Islam and his Progeny will rule ta Quyamat. where does it say there will be Gaib Imam or Hiding Imam or Hazir Imam ( who cannot even say "Niyaz" properly)
Shias and Sunnis
Who does the Quran address as Ahlebayt and Why did the proph
Who does the Quran address as Ahlebayt and Why did the prophet pbuh put the cloak over Hasnain?
============================
Quran explicitly mentions the wives of the prophet pbuh as Ahlebayt, when the verse below was revealed then this caused the prophet pbuh to pray for the hasnain in cloak to be also included in the ahle bayt as no verse was revealed explicitly addressing them.As related in some traditions that the Holy Prophet did not cover Hadrat 'A'ishah and Hadrat Umm Salamah under the sheet of cloth which he put on the four members of his family, does not mean that he had excluded those ladies from his "household." But it means that the wives were already included in ahl al-bait, because the Qur'an, in fact, had addressed them as ahl al-bait. The Holy Prophet, however, thought that the apparent words of the Qur'an might cause somebody the misunderstanding about these members that they were excluded from the ahl al-bait. Therefore, he felt the need for clarification in their case and not in the case of his wives.
http://quran.com/33/30
O wives of the Prophet, whoever of you should commit a clear immorality - for her the punishment would be doubled two fold, and ever is that, for Allah, easy. (30)
And whoever of you devoutly obeys Allah and His Messenger and does righteousness - We will give her her reward twice; and We have prepared for her a noble provision. (31) O wives of the Prophet, you are not like anyone among women. If you fear Allah, then do not be soft in speech [to men], lest he in whose heart is disease should covet, but speak with appropriate speech. (32) And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household(Ahlebayt), and to purify you with [extensive] purification. (33)
“The context in which this verse occurs makes it manifest that the word ahl al-bait (people of the house) here implies the wives of the Holy Prophet (upon whom be Allah's peace), because the address begins with: "O wives of the Prophet," and they are the addressees in the whole discourse preceding it as well as following it. Moreover, the word ahl al-bait in Arabic is used precisely in the sense in which the word "household" is used in English, which includes both a man's wife and children. No one would exclude the wife from the "household." The Qur'an itself has used this word at two other places besides this, and at both the wife is included in its sense, rather as the most important member of the family. In Surah Hud, when the angels give the Prophet Abraham the good news of the birth of a son, his wife exclaims: "Shall I bear a child now when I have grown too old, and this husband of mine has also become old?" The angels say: What! Are you surprised at Allah's decree, O people of Abraham's household? Allah's mercy and blessings are upon you." In Surah Al-Qasas, when the Prophet Moses reaches the Pharaoh's house as a suckling, and the Pharaoh's wife is in search of a suitable nurse for the child, the Prophet Moses' sister says, "Shall I tell you of a household whose people will bring him up for you and look after him well?" Thus, the Arabic idiom and the usage of the Qur'an and the context of this verse, 'all point clearly to the fact that the Holy Prophet's wives as well as his children are included in his ahl al-bait; rather the more correct thing is that the verse is actually addressed to the wives and the children become included in the household only because of the sense of the word. That is why according to lbn 'Abbas and 'Urwah bin Zubair and `Ikrimah, the word ahl al-bait in this verse implies the wives of the Holy Prophet.
But if somebody says that the word ahl al-bait has been used only for the wives and none else can be included in it, it will also be wrong. Not only this that the word "household" includes all the members of a man's family, but the Holy Prophet has himself explained that this includes even himself. According to Ibn Abi Hatim, once when Hadrat `A'ishah was asked about Hadrat `Ali, she said, Do you ask me about the person who was among the most loved ones of the Holy Prophet and whose wife was the Holy Prophet's daughter and most beloved to him?" Then she related the event when the Holy Prophet had called Hadrat 'Ali and Fatimah and Hasan and Husain (may Allah be pleased with them all) and covered them all with a sheet of cloth and prayed: "O Allah, these are my household, remove uncleanness from them and make them pure." Hadrat 'A'ishah says, "I said: I also am included among your household (i.e. I may also be covered under the sheet and prayed for).” Thereupon the Holy Prophet replied" You stay out: you, of course, are already included." A great many Ahadith bearing on this subject have been related by traditionalists like Muslim, Tirmidhi, Ahmad, Ibn Jarir, Hakim, Baihaqi, etc. on the authority of Abu Said Khudri, Hadrat 'A'ishah, Hadrat Anas, Hadrat Umm Salamah, Hadrat Wathilah bin Aqsa' and some other Companions, which show that the Holy Prophet declared Hadrat 'AIi and Fatimah and their two sons as his ahl al-bait. Therefore, the view of those who exclude them from the ahl al-bait is not correct.
Similarly the view of those people also is not correct, who, on the basis of the above-cited Ahadith, regard the wives of the Holy Prophet as excluded from his ahl al-bait. In the first place, anything which has been clearly stated in the Quran cannot be contradicted on the basis of a Hadith. Secondly, these Ahadith also do not have the meaning that is put on them. As related in some traditions that the Holy Prophet did not cover Hadrat 'A'ishah and Hadrat Umm Salamah under the sheet of cloth which he put on the four members of his family, does not mean that he had excluded those ladies from his "household." But it means that the wives were already included in ahl al-bait, because the Qur'an, in fact, had addressed them as ahl al-bait. The Holy Prophet, however, thought that the apparent words of the Qur'an might cause somebody the misunderstanding about these members that they were excluded from the ahl al-bait. Therefore, he felt the need for clarification in their case and not in the case of his wives.
A section of the people have not only misconstrued this verse to the extent that they have made the word ahl al-bait exclusively applicable to Hadrat `AIi and Fatimah and their children to the exclusion of the holy wives, but have gone even further and concluded wrongly from its words "Allah only intends to remove uncleanliness from you and purify you completely", that Hadrat 'Ali and Fatimah and their children are infallible like the Prophets of Allah. They say that "uncleanliness" implies error and sin, and, as Allah says, these ahl al-bait have been purified of this, whereas the words of the verse do not say that uncleanliness has been removed from them and they have been purified. But the words are to the effect: "Allah intends to remove uncleanliness from you and purify you completely. " The context also does not tell that the object here is to mention the virtues and excellences of the Holy Prophet's household. On the contrary, they have been advised here what they should do and what they should not, because Allah intends to purify them. In other words, they have been told that if they adopted such and such an attitude and way of life, they will be blessed with cleanliness, otherwise not. However, if the words "Allah intends to remove uncleanliness from yon . . . " are taken to mean that Allah has made them infallible, then is no reason why all the Muslims who perform their ablutions before offering the Prayer are not held as infallible, because about them also Allah says: "But Allah wills to purify you and complete His blessings upon you." (Al-Ma'idah: 6)”. (end of quote).
So as conclusion we should say, that ahlalbayt are: of `Ali, the family of `Aqil, the family of Ja`far and the family of `Abbas, wifes of prophet (sallalahu alaihi wa ala alihi wa sallam).
These include Banul Muttalib also, for the prophet (sallalahu alaihi wa ala alihi wa sallam) has said: “They didn’t left us neither during the period of ignorance nor in the period of Islam”
============================
Quran explicitly mentions the wives of the prophet pbuh as Ahlebayt, when the verse below was revealed then this caused the prophet pbuh to pray for the hasnain in cloak to be also included in the ahle bayt as no verse was revealed explicitly addressing them.As related in some traditions that the Holy Prophet did not cover Hadrat 'A'ishah and Hadrat Umm Salamah under the sheet of cloth which he put on the four members of his family, does not mean that he had excluded those ladies from his "household." But it means that the wives were already included in ahl al-bait, because the Qur'an, in fact, had addressed them as ahl al-bait. The Holy Prophet, however, thought that the apparent words of the Qur'an might cause somebody the misunderstanding about these members that they were excluded from the ahl al-bait. Therefore, he felt the need for clarification in their case and not in the case of his wives.
http://quran.com/33/30
O wives of the Prophet, whoever of you should commit a clear immorality - for her the punishment would be doubled two fold, and ever is that, for Allah, easy. (30)
And whoever of you devoutly obeys Allah and His Messenger and does righteousness - We will give her her reward twice; and We have prepared for her a noble provision. (31) O wives of the Prophet, you are not like anyone among women. If you fear Allah, then do not be soft in speech [to men], lest he in whose heart is disease should covet, but speak with appropriate speech. (32) And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household(Ahlebayt), and to purify you with [extensive] purification. (33)
“The context in which this verse occurs makes it manifest that the word ahl al-bait (people of the house) here implies the wives of the Holy Prophet (upon whom be Allah's peace), because the address begins with: "O wives of the Prophet," and they are the addressees in the whole discourse preceding it as well as following it. Moreover, the word ahl al-bait in Arabic is used precisely in the sense in which the word "household" is used in English, which includes both a man's wife and children. No one would exclude the wife from the "household." The Qur'an itself has used this word at two other places besides this, and at both the wife is included in its sense, rather as the most important member of the family. In Surah Hud, when the angels give the Prophet Abraham the good news of the birth of a son, his wife exclaims: "Shall I bear a child now when I have grown too old, and this husband of mine has also become old?" The angels say: What! Are you surprised at Allah's decree, O people of Abraham's household? Allah's mercy and blessings are upon you." In Surah Al-Qasas, when the Prophet Moses reaches the Pharaoh's house as a suckling, and the Pharaoh's wife is in search of a suitable nurse for the child, the Prophet Moses' sister says, "Shall I tell you of a household whose people will bring him up for you and look after him well?" Thus, the Arabic idiom and the usage of the Qur'an and the context of this verse, 'all point clearly to the fact that the Holy Prophet's wives as well as his children are included in his ahl al-bait; rather the more correct thing is that the verse is actually addressed to the wives and the children become included in the household only because of the sense of the word. That is why according to lbn 'Abbas and 'Urwah bin Zubair and `Ikrimah, the word ahl al-bait in this verse implies the wives of the Holy Prophet.
But if somebody says that the word ahl al-bait has been used only for the wives and none else can be included in it, it will also be wrong. Not only this that the word "household" includes all the members of a man's family, but the Holy Prophet has himself explained that this includes even himself. According to Ibn Abi Hatim, once when Hadrat `A'ishah was asked about Hadrat `Ali, she said, Do you ask me about the person who was among the most loved ones of the Holy Prophet and whose wife was the Holy Prophet's daughter and most beloved to him?" Then she related the event when the Holy Prophet had called Hadrat 'Ali and Fatimah and Hasan and Husain (may Allah be pleased with them all) and covered them all with a sheet of cloth and prayed: "O Allah, these are my household, remove uncleanness from them and make them pure." Hadrat 'A'ishah says, "I said: I also am included among your household (i.e. I may also be covered under the sheet and prayed for).” Thereupon the Holy Prophet replied" You stay out: you, of course, are already included." A great many Ahadith bearing on this subject have been related by traditionalists like Muslim, Tirmidhi, Ahmad, Ibn Jarir, Hakim, Baihaqi, etc. on the authority of Abu Said Khudri, Hadrat 'A'ishah, Hadrat Anas, Hadrat Umm Salamah, Hadrat Wathilah bin Aqsa' and some other Companions, which show that the Holy Prophet declared Hadrat 'AIi and Fatimah and their two sons as his ahl al-bait. Therefore, the view of those who exclude them from the ahl al-bait is not correct.
Similarly the view of those people also is not correct, who, on the basis of the above-cited Ahadith, regard the wives of the Holy Prophet as excluded from his ahl al-bait. In the first place, anything which has been clearly stated in the Quran cannot be contradicted on the basis of a Hadith. Secondly, these Ahadith also do not have the meaning that is put on them. As related in some traditions that the Holy Prophet did not cover Hadrat 'A'ishah and Hadrat Umm Salamah under the sheet of cloth which he put on the four members of his family, does not mean that he had excluded those ladies from his "household." But it means that the wives were already included in ahl al-bait, because the Qur'an, in fact, had addressed them as ahl al-bait. The Holy Prophet, however, thought that the apparent words of the Qur'an might cause somebody the misunderstanding about these members that they were excluded from the ahl al-bait. Therefore, he felt the need for clarification in their case and not in the case of his wives.
A section of the people have not only misconstrued this verse to the extent that they have made the word ahl al-bait exclusively applicable to Hadrat `AIi and Fatimah and their children to the exclusion of the holy wives, but have gone even further and concluded wrongly from its words "Allah only intends to remove uncleanliness from you and purify you completely", that Hadrat 'Ali and Fatimah and their children are infallible like the Prophets of Allah. They say that "uncleanliness" implies error and sin, and, as Allah says, these ahl al-bait have been purified of this, whereas the words of the verse do not say that uncleanliness has been removed from them and they have been purified. But the words are to the effect: "Allah intends to remove uncleanliness from you and purify you completely. " The context also does not tell that the object here is to mention the virtues and excellences of the Holy Prophet's household. On the contrary, they have been advised here what they should do and what they should not, because Allah intends to purify them. In other words, they have been told that if they adopted such and such an attitude and way of life, they will be blessed with cleanliness, otherwise not. However, if the words "Allah intends to remove uncleanliness from yon . . . " are taken to mean that Allah has made them infallible, then is no reason why all the Muslims who perform their ablutions before offering the Prayer are not held as infallible, because about them also Allah says: "But Allah wills to purify you and complete His blessings upon you." (Al-Ma'idah: 6)”. (end of quote).
So as conclusion we should say, that ahlalbayt are: of `Ali, the family of `Aqil, the family of Ja`far and the family of `Abbas, wifes of prophet (sallalahu alaihi wa ala alihi wa sallam).
These include Banul Muttalib also, for the prophet (sallalahu alaihi wa ala alihi wa sallam) has said: “They didn’t left us neither during the period of ignorance nor in the period of Islam”
-
JavedhJuma
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm
Re: Who does the Quran address as Ahlebayt and Why did the p
Free Bohrabhai,
Nice try! Western scholars, who are more independent of Shias and Sunnis interpretations say otherwise.
Nice try! Western scholars, who are more independent of Shias and Sunnis interpretations say otherwise.
-
JavedhJuma
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm
Re: Shias and Sunnis
MF, Hold on to your seat tight. I shall revert to you very shortly. In the meantime, please let me know why Hazarat Umar congratulated Hazarat Ali AS at Gadeer. Please do not evade this time.
Re: Who does the Quran address as Ahlebayt and Why did the p
According to Valerie Hoffman, Western historians largely reject Shi'ite claims and stories of Muhammad having appointed Ali as his successor as fabrications .[1] . Madelung is the only western author which "just" doubts this view held by modern scholars. Its no suprise that Madelung is a Fellow and sponsored by the Institute for Ismaili Studies[2]
[1] Valerie Jon Hoffman, The Essentials of Ibadi Islam, pp. 6-7. Syracuse: Syracuse University Press, 2012. ISBN 9780815650843
[2] http://us.macmillan.com/author/wilfredmadelung
[1] Valerie Jon Hoffman, The Essentials of Ibadi Islam, pp. 6-7. Syracuse: Syracuse University Press, 2012. ISBN 9780815650843
[2] http://us.macmillan.com/author/wilfredmadelung
Re: Shias and Sunnis
To Muslim First
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-
JavedhJuma
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm
Re: Who does the Quran address as Ahlebayt and Why did the p
So why haven't you quoted Valerie Jon Hoffman to prove your point? Tell us what she says about Ahle-bayt.And what does she say about fabricated stories of Ghadeer E Khoum. Your response is very flimsy.freebhora wrote:According to Valerie Hoffman, Western historians largely reject Shi'ite claims and stories of Muhammad having appointed Ali as his successor as fabrications .[1] . Madelung is the only western author which "just" doubts this view held by modern scholars. Its no suprise that Madelung is a Fellow and sponsored by the Institute for Ismaili Studies[2]
[1] Valerie Jon Hoffman, The Essentials of Ibadi Islam, pp. 6-7. Syracuse: Syracuse University Press, 2012. ISBN 9780815650843
[2] http://us.macmillan.com/author/wilfredmadelung
You are saying Madelung is paid puppet of IIS. Prove it. As reputable an author and researcher as Madelung, would she put her reputation on line? These things may happen in Indo-Pak and developing countries who would do anything at a flip of a coin.
What about Anne Marie Schimmel. Is she also a paid piper?
There are more western scholars who do not agree with you. I do not have time to waste. If you need me to provide proofs, please let me know. In the meantime, there is one more Henry Corbin. . Most reputable man in history.
In other words, those who do not agree with you are IIS puppets.
Unless you prove otherwise, Ahle Bayt stands for the Panjatan Pak and not Prophet's wives.
Prophet SAW addressed his wives as consorts of the Prophet.
You tried hard to convince people here that in Arabic Bayt means house. I have not heard any arab call his wives Ahle Bayt,. Nice try.
-
JavedhJuma
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm
Re: Shias and Sunnis
MF, I will only respond to you when you start bashing my Imam. If I responded to everything you write here, I would have to leave my job and sit in front of the computer like you and other self-righteous ones on this forum. I have no desire to do so.[Why don't you practice that first. read Quran and tell me where does it say " Muhammad is king of a Islam and his Progeny will rule ta Quyamat. where does it say there will be Gaib Imam or Hiding Imam or Hazir Imam ( who cannot even say "Niyaz" properly)
What I think of you is that you are a very angry, sick psychopath, who at the very mention of Shias and Aga Khan, goes into frenzy and utters total nonsense. You go to great lengths to justify that Sunnis are right, even if it means to lie. You have lied a lot and you have been proven so. Anyway, I am not here to discuss Shias and Sunnis. I am here to discuss about my Imam whom you hate so much that even Admin deleted one of your posts. I can imagine how much hatred and venom you might have spewed in that post.
Anyway, the person whom you call White Man, happens to be my Imam and direct descendant of the Prophet SAW. As long as you continue to hate him, there will be no peace in your life.
If his teachings are different from yours, so what? Do you have the authority to judge? Is he hurting anybody like you and your deviants are? Do you see the good he does in this world?
Today, I saw a picture of him in front row of the honored guests for D-Day with the Queen. What does Aga Khan have to do with D-Day? Before you come up up with a stupid answer, let me tell you why he was probably invited? None of you on this forum will know. His father Prince Aly Khan served on the side of the Americans on D-Day.
You can shower all the obscenities on him, because afterall your Allah is Most Merciful and your Holy Book is His book of fitnah.
You do not follow Sunnah nor Qur'an, because if you did, you will not be such a psychopath.
A person who follows Qur'an and Sunnah can never be like you.
Now tell me if he did not say Niyaz properly, then what did he say? Where did you hear him? If your Most Merciful said so, then forget it. He is a liar and so are you. Jaisa tera Khuda waisa tum.
I have heard him say Niyaz many a time and he has said it pretty clearly. If you, yourself have not heard it and are relying on second hand knowledge then you are no better than the person who created this fitnah.
I am not finished. To be continued....
-
JavedhJuma
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm
Re: Shias and Sunnis
Hello MF,
With reference to your hatred for shias, is it because you see them so prosperous? Before I proceed, let me clarify to you, I have no theological problem with either of you. My problem is with the perpetrators of heinous crimes in the name of Islam.
I am proud to say, my Imam, who is the direct descendant of Prophet SAW, is the only Muslim leader who is fighting for Islam and trying to correct the bad picture. I have not heard from any other Muslim who goes to great lengths to correct the image of Islam.
He gave a great speech in the Canadian Parliament, but you decided to divert the subject and instead made it a hateful debate. That is always your intention. You can't accept any good being said of my Imam.
Your brothers destroy heritage sites, he rebuilds them. He helps people in the best way he can.
On the other hand, your people, wait for an opportunity like natural disasters and wars to run to the areas to kidnap or buy young girls (like they did in Pakistan during the earthquake, and in Jordan and Turkey since the Syrian war). Is this true Islam? They call themselves true Muslims and even issued fatwa in Syria that it was legal to rape Shia women!!!
I must admit, Iranian Shias have no such reputation. Look at Iran! The only Muslim country in the world shows a finger to the US. Whereas most of the middle eastern countries run to the West to protect them and kiss their A***. Is that not true.. Remember the 6 day war? They surrounded Israel, but Israel defeated them and annexed their lands in 6 days. Now it is releasing them morceau par moceau ( piece by piece) in exchange for securities. EG. Egypt cannot put its army in Sinai. Jordan can't draw water from part of Jordan river, etc.
Isn't this humiliating for you? Why not do something to correct the image of Islam instead? Why fight with people in forum to forum. Is there any sawb in that or wrath of Allah. Allah SWT is Most Loving, the Most Beneficiet the Most Merciful. So why are his followers such Jahils and hateful?
So I say, Iranians have guts, you guys don't. I cannnot judge your beliefs because only Allah SWT is the Judge.
With reference to your hatred for shias, is it because you see them so prosperous? Before I proceed, let me clarify to you, I have no theological problem with either of you. My problem is with the perpetrators of heinous crimes in the name of Islam.
I am proud to say, my Imam, who is the direct descendant of Prophet SAW, is the only Muslim leader who is fighting for Islam and trying to correct the bad picture. I have not heard from any other Muslim who goes to great lengths to correct the image of Islam.
He gave a great speech in the Canadian Parliament, but you decided to divert the subject and instead made it a hateful debate. That is always your intention. You can't accept any good being said of my Imam.
Your brothers destroy heritage sites, he rebuilds them. He helps people in the best way he can.
On the other hand, your people, wait for an opportunity like natural disasters and wars to run to the areas to kidnap or buy young girls (like they did in Pakistan during the earthquake, and in Jordan and Turkey since the Syrian war). Is this true Islam? They call themselves true Muslims and even issued fatwa in Syria that it was legal to rape Shia women!!!
I must admit, Iranian Shias have no such reputation. Look at Iran! The only Muslim country in the world shows a finger to the US. Whereas most of the middle eastern countries run to the West to protect them and kiss their A***. Is that not true.. Remember the 6 day war? They surrounded Israel, but Israel defeated them and annexed their lands in 6 days. Now it is releasing them morceau par moceau ( piece by piece) in exchange for securities. EG. Egypt cannot put its army in Sinai. Jordan can't draw water from part of Jordan river, etc.
Isn't this humiliating for you? Why not do something to correct the image of Islam instead? Why fight with people in forum to forum. Is there any sawb in that or wrath of Allah. Allah SWT is Most Loving, the Most Beneficiet the Most Merciful. So why are his followers such Jahils and hateful?
So I say, Iranians have guts, you guys don't. I cannnot judge your beliefs because only Allah SWT is the Judge.
-
JavedhJuma
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm
Re: Shias and Sunnis
One more post for MF,
So Hazarat Umar RA did congratulate Hazarat Ali A.S. at Ghadeer! I wonder why, especially, after you all have claimed that nothing happened at Ghadir and that the Prophet SAW had delivered the full message at Meccah. Ghadeer is just an imagination of Shias and historians?????
Let me tell you something. It is true Prophet SAW did deliver "Most" of the message at Mecca, but the part about Hazar Ali AS, was not delivered because the Prophet SAW was worried that if he declared Hazarat Ali, AS, as his successor, they would harm him and Ali AS.
So the ayah regarding nomination of Hazarat Ali AS was repeated to the Prophet SAW and Allah SWT assured the Prophet SAW, that He would protect him and that if the Prophet SAW did not deliver the full message, then he would have disobeyed Allah SWT.
Hence the history of Ghadeer E Khum. Believe if you want and don't believe if you don't. But remember one thing, in your own words: Hazarat Umar RA congratulated Hazarat Ali AS "for something that happened at Ghadir and which you are not willing to share. Fine. No problem."
Peace brother!
So Hazarat Umar RA did congratulate Hazarat Ali A.S. at Ghadeer! I wonder why, especially, after you all have claimed that nothing happened at Ghadir and that the Prophet SAW had delivered the full message at Meccah. Ghadeer is just an imagination of Shias and historians?????
Let me tell you something. It is true Prophet SAW did deliver "Most" of the message at Mecca, but the part about Hazar Ali AS, was not delivered because the Prophet SAW was worried that if he declared Hazarat Ali, AS, as his successor, they would harm him and Ali AS.
So the ayah regarding nomination of Hazarat Ali AS was repeated to the Prophet SAW and Allah SWT assured the Prophet SAW, that He would protect him and that if the Prophet SAW did not deliver the full message, then he would have disobeyed Allah SWT.
Hence the history of Ghadeer E Khum. Believe if you want and don't believe if you don't. But remember one thing, in your own words: Hazarat Umar RA congratulated Hazarat Ali AS "for something that happened at Ghadir and which you are not willing to share. Fine. No problem."
Peace brother!
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Shias and Sunnis
Post authentic Hadith that Umar RA congratulated him saying " congrats Ali you are our wali a Ahad after Prophet.Hence the history of Ghadeer E Khum. Believe if you want and don't believe if you don't. But remember one thing, in your own words: Hazarat Umar RA congratulated Hazarat Ali AS "for something that happened at Ghadir and which you are not willing to share. Fine. No problem."
BTW forget about him being direct descendent of Hz Ali. I personally doubt he is son of so called prince Ali Solomen.
Re: Who does the Quran address as Ahlebayt and Why did the p
Have you even tried finding and seeing the reference quoted upto [1] I quoted her verbatim, she was the one to report that Western historians largely reject Shi'ite claims and stories of Muhammad having appointed Ali as his successor as fabrications . It requires no rocket science to conclude that Shia versions of history are outright fabrications. Moreover Quran itself addresses only wives as Ahlebayt ALL the time.JavedhJuma wrote:freebhora wrote:According to Valerie Hoffman, Western historians largely reject Shi'ite claims and stories of Muhammad having appointed Ali as his successor as fabrications .[1] . Madelung is the only western author which "just" doubts this view held by modern scholars. Its no suprise that Madelung is a Fellow and sponsored by the Institute for Ismaili Studies[2]
[1] Valerie Jon Hoffman, The Essentials of Ibadi Islam, pp. 6-7. Syracuse: Syracuse University Press, 2012. ISBN 9780815650843
[2] http://us.macmillan.com/author/wilfredmadelung
Also Like I have given a verbatim reference please quote a reputed western author on this issue of succession\ahlebayt , quote Schimmel!
-
JavedhJuma
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm
Re: Who does the Quran address as Ahlebayt and Why did the p
Brother Freebohora:
I did read about Madelung, and my point is if Madelung doubts.......where does she provide her doubts. I cannot take V. Hoffman's word.
Inshallah will provide you Anne Marie Schimmel's version by the end of the week.
Can you tell me which other "western historians reject Shiite claims........as fabrications".According to Valerie Hoffman, Western historians largely reject Shi'ite claims and stories of Muhammad having appointed Ali as his successor as fabrications
I did read about Madelung, and my point is if Madelung doubts.......where does she provide her doubts. I cannot take V. Hoffman's word.
Inshallah will provide you Anne Marie Schimmel's version by the end of the week.
-
JavedhJuma
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm
Re: Shias and Sunnis
Why did it take you soooo long to admit that Hazarat Umar congratulated him saying "congrats Ali you are our wali a Had after Prophet. In other words, Hazarat Umar RA, accepted Hazarat Ali AS as his leader after the Prophet. So why have you guys been saying there was no declaration of Nuss at Gadir E Khoum. Why after Hazarat Umar accepted Ali AS as Wali, he joined the group at Sakifa?Post authentic Hadith that Umar RA congratulated him saying " congrats Ali you are our wali a Ahad after Prophet.
BTW forget about him being direct descendent of Hz Ali. I personally doubt he is son of so called prince Ali Solomen.
As for your comment: BTW forget about him being direct descendent of Hz Ali. I personally doubt he is son of so called prince Ali Solomen
I know and the whole world, minus MF, and his Most Merciful Fitnati God knows he is the direct descendant of Hazarat Ali AS. What difference does it make to us what two fitnatis think. Nobody cares what you think buddy.
Peace
Re: Who does the Quran address as Ahlebayt and Why did the p
So now if I give you the list of academic western authors who reject Shi'ite claims and stories of Muhammad having appointed Ali as his successor as fabrications(and the 3 caliphs were right and not usurpers) , then would you accept it?
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Shias and Sunnis
Direct descendant of Hz Ali ?I know and the whole world, minus MF, and his Most Merciful Fitnati God knows he is the direct descendant of Hazarat Ali AS. What difference does it make to us what two fitnatis think. Nobody cares what you think buddy.
This kind of descendant? Aisha descendant hota hey!!!!
Karim's father; Ali Solomen. Playboy, womanizer, drunkard. Died in Auto accident with girlfriend
Colorful history from Wikipedia
Imam's mother was mistress of Seymour Berry and Imam and his Murids tolerated that?He married his first wife the Hon. Joan Barbara Guinness (née Yarde-Buller, 1908–1997). She was the former wife of Group Capt. Thomas Loel Guinness, a Member of Parliament, and a daughter of the 3rd Baron Churston. The wedding took place in Paris on May 18, 1936, a few days after Joan Guinness's divorce became absolute. Before the wedding, the bride converted to Islam and took the name Tajuddawlah .
"I had been involved with several women", he said of his playboy period of his life, which included high-profile lovers such as the British debutante Margaret Whigham and Thelma, Viscountess Furness, an American who was simultaneously involved with the Prince of Wales.[2] "I was tired of trouble. Joan was a sane and solid girl, and I thought if I married her, I would stay out of trouble."[3]
He had been named co-respondent in the "Guinness vs. Guinness and Khan" divorce suit, with Loel Guinness citing as evidence that his wife and the Prince had occupied a hotel room together from 17 May until 20 May 1935 and that his wife had told him that she "had formed an attachment for him and desired her husband to divorce her". The case was uncontested, and Aly Khan was ordered to pay all costs.[4]
The couple's first child, Prince Karim, was born in Geneva, seven months later; they also had a second son, Prince Amyn Muhammad Aga Khan. By this marriage, he had a stepson, Patrick Guinness.
They divorced in 1949, in part due to his extramarital affairs with, among others, Pamela Churchill.[5] After the divorce, Princess Tajuddawlah became the longtime mistress and eventual wife of the newspaper magnate Seymour Berry, 2nd Viscount Camrose.
Karim Agakhan:
Married divorcee and divorced her after 3 kids and who is now shaking up with her French divorce lawyer. Second wife was model who hired a investigator to follow Karim Agakahn who was fooling around with Air Hostess.
Hussein Agakhan;
Married and divorced. ex wife buys 2.2 m condo in NY from divorce settlement.
Zahra Agakhan;
Married male non Muslim model, divorced in 8 years with 2 kids.
you call this Noorani Family?
-
JavedhJuma
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm
Re: Shias and Sunnis
I do not have to post anything. You yourself said Hazarat Umar congratulated Hazarat AS. So what did he congratulate him for. Why don't you tell me why he congratulated Hazarat AS.Post authentic Hadith that Umar RA congratulated him saying " congrats Ali you are our wali a Ahad after Prophet
Something fishy going on.
-
JavedhJuma
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm
Re: Shias and Sunnis
My Friend:
I have prepared a reply to the rest of your Mir Bhose rhetoric. Just have to fine edit it.
Inshallah will post by the end of the week although I have a busy schedule.
In the meantime, what you have posted is from two losers, Your Most Merciful God and Mir Bhose. Both of them admitted in Court of Law they had lied and had to take their books off the shelves. So what you have posted about Imam's mother is a Big Lie and it was proved in the Court of Law. So was your lie about Prince Aly Khan being a drunkard. The most respectable historians have written that Prince Aly Khan never touched liquor. He always asked for glass of Orange Juice or Tomato Juice. My Most Beloved Imam did not even ask for compensation. He asked them to admit that they lied, that was it. In other words, they were causing fitnahs, and you My friend thrive on fitnah. That is your food. MAY Allah SWT have mercy on you. Amen.
In my next post I will tell you that your wahabis said the Prophet SAW was a drunkard. Really. I will show you. Hang on.
Peace
I have prepared a reply to the rest of your Mir Bhose rhetoric. Just have to fine edit it.
Inshallah will post by the end of the week although I have a busy schedule.
In the meantime, what you have posted is from two losers, Your Most Merciful God and Mir Bhose. Both of them admitted in Court of Law they had lied and had to take their books off the shelves. So what you have posted about Imam's mother is a Big Lie and it was proved in the Court of Law. So was your lie about Prince Aly Khan being a drunkard. The most respectable historians have written that Prince Aly Khan never touched liquor. He always asked for glass of Orange Juice or Tomato Juice. My Most Beloved Imam did not even ask for compensation. He asked them to admit that they lied, that was it. In other words, they were causing fitnahs, and you My friend thrive on fitnah. That is your food. MAY Allah SWT have mercy on you. Amen.
In my next post I will tell you that your wahabis said the Prophet SAW was a drunkard. Really. I will show you. Hang on.
Peace
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Shias and Sunnis
This is not from Bose or most merciful.comJavedhJuma wrote:My Friend:
I have prepared a reply to the rest of your Mir Bhose rhetoric. Just have to fine edit it.
Inshallah will post by the end of the week although I have a busy schedule.
In the meantime, what you have posted is from two losers, Your Most Merciful God and Mir Bhose. Both of them admitted in Court of Law they had lied and had to take their books off the shelves. So what you have posted about Imam's mother is a Big Lie and it was proved in the Court of Law. So was your lie about Prince Aly Khan being a drunkard. The most respectable historians have written that Prince Aly Khan never touched liquor. He always asked for glass of Orange Juice or Tomato Juice. My Most Beloved Imam did not even ask for compensation. He asked them to admit that they lied, that was it. In other words, they were causing fitnahs, and you My friend thrive on fitnah. That is your food. MAY Allah SWT have mercy on you. Amen.
In my next post I will tell you that your wahabis said the Prophet SAW was a drunkard. Really. I will show you. Hang on.
Peace
From Wikipedia
Aga Khan IV - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aga_Khan_IV
Now your Maula should sue wikipediaMarriages, divorces and children[edit]
The Aga Khan married his first wife, former British model Sarah ("Sally") Frances Croker-Poole, who assumed the name Begum Salimah Aga Khan, on October 22, 1969 (civil) and October 28, 1969 (religious), at his home (at that time) in Paris, France. The couple were married for 25 years, during which they had three children. Not many years into the marriage, the Aga Khan (potentially influenced by his father's history of marital infidelity[40]) engaged in multiple extramarital affairs,[46] greatly displeasing Begum Salimah.[46] By 1984, the Aga Khan and Begum Salimah took to separate lives.[46] However, their marriage did not officially end by divorce until eleven years later, in 1995. The Aga Khan agreed to pay £20 million in a divorce settlement, and Begum Salimah sold jewels she received as gifts, including the Begum Blue diamond, for £17.5 million.[46][47][48] The Aga Khan and Begum Salimah had one daughter and two sons together:
-
Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: Shias and Sunnis
@Javedhjuma
You Aga Khani Ismailis are like 3 monkey statue.
See no evil, hear no evil and see no evil about your Ali Allah.
Now here is about second marriage. This is also from Wikipedia. Same link as my previous post.
You Aga Khani Ismailis are like 3 monkey statue.
See no evil, hear no evil and see no evil about your Ali Allah.
Now here is about second marriage. This is also from Wikipedia. Same link as my previous post.
Please Javed hire a lawyer to sue Wikipedia and all sources quoted by them.The Aga Khan married for the second time with Gabriele zu Leiningen, who assumed the name Begum Inaara Aga Khan, at his walled compound and chateau, Aiglemont, in Gouvieux, France, on May 30, 1998. However, a little over six years later – on October 8, 2004 – an announcement was made that the Aga Khan and Begum Inaara were to seek a divorce.[49][50] Court documents revealed their relationship irretrievably broke down within just two years of their wedding.[51] Court documents also revealed that Begum Inaara (like the Aga Khan's previous wife, Begum Salimah) claimed the Aga Khan had engaged in an extramarital affair while married. Specifically, Begum Inaara argued that her husband had been involved in an affair with an air hostess.[52] In September 2011, a divorce settlement was reached in French courts (where the Aga Khan had divorce proceedings successfully moved to from Britain and where civil settlements are comparatively far lower)[53] and Begum Inaara was to receive a settlement amount of €60 million - overturning a lower court ruling of one-fifth of this amount, after the upper court overseeing the settlement found the Aga Khan exclusively at fault for adultery.[52][54] It was revealed in the court that Begum Inaara had hired a private detective to track the Aga Khan's movements with the air hostess. An intra-marriage liaison of the Aga Khan with Beatrice von der Schulenburg, the divorced wife of an English recruitment company head, whom the Aga Khan has been close to for five years and whom it was expected the Aga Khan could marry following completion divorce proceedings, was also highlighted by the Begum's lawyers.[52] The divorce settlement amount was agreed to by both the Aga Khan and the Begum in March 2014.[54] By Begum Inaara, the Aga Khan has a son:
-
JavedhJuma
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm
Re: Shias and Sunnis
[quotePlease Javed hire a lawyer to sue Wikipedia and all sources quoted by them.][/quote]
Who do you think feeds information like this to wikipedia. Guys like you and your Most Merciful Mehrullah!Information on wikipedia can be changed and altered. Wikipedia is for ignorant, lazy, illiterate and fitnati people who close their eyes when somebody does good in the world; who shut off their brain when good about the person is fed in the media, etc/
No need to sue them. They have been fed by you, your Mehrullah and Mir Bhose and other like minded people.
You seem to be very illiterate person who relies on wikipedia. Do you ever pick up a book. Did you pick up the last Forbes Magazine? No. Why? Because there was no fitnah???? In other words, you thrive in gutter and have no desire to come out of it to see what good my Imam does in the world.
Do you have a conscience? I am sure you don't. I have never encountered a humanbeing such as you. I pity you and your family. I doubt you have a wife or children. You sound like a very miserable operson.
Your life must be very miserable because you never have anything good to say.
Please provide the link.
May Allah SWT give you taufeeq.
To be contd.
Who do you think feeds information like this to wikipedia. Guys like you and your Most Merciful Mehrullah!Information on wikipedia can be changed and altered. Wikipedia is for ignorant, lazy, illiterate and fitnati people who close their eyes when somebody does good in the world; who shut off their brain when good about the person is fed in the media, etc/
No need to sue them. They have been fed by you, your Mehrullah and Mir Bhose and other like minded people.
You seem to be very illiterate person who relies on wikipedia. Do you ever pick up a book. Did you pick up the last Forbes Magazine? No. Why? Because there was no fitnah???? In other words, you thrive in gutter and have no desire to come out of it to see what good my Imam does in the world.
Do you have a conscience? I am sure you don't. I have never encountered a humanbeing such as you. I pity you and your family. I doubt you have a wife or children. You sound like a very miserable operson.
Your life must be very miserable because you never have anything good to say.
Please provide the link.
May Allah SWT give you taufeeq.
To be contd.
-
JavedhJuma
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm
Re: Shias and Sunnis
Our Imam is our caretaker, he is our Rehbar on earth, who works day and night, not only for us, but for the Ummah and Allah SWT's creation. He helped us and took care of us when we faced problems in Congo, Angola, Uganda, Afghanistan. Watch this video if you have guts. You might not even have heard of it. Neither did I until today: http://www.sadroo.com/00063/You Aga Khani Ismailis are like 3 monkey statue.
See no evil, hear no evil and see no evil about your Ali Allah.
Now here is about second marriage. This is also from Wikipedia. Same link as my previous post
He not only helped us but even your people who converted to Ismailism later on. How can we see anything wrong with him? Even the world is full of praise of him. I don't see any Muslim leader received in such grandeur, and spoken of in such grandeur! Is that what botherss you? You feel bad that your fellows destroy and Aga Khan rebuilds and none of your Aboos help.
Look at Iraq! What ISIS is doing shouting "Allahu Akbar" and kicking a skull of a beheaded guy. This is what happens when you have no leader. Prophet SAW was right!
Aisa Islam hota hai?
We do not care about our Imam's private life. We see him everyday going from country to country to correct the image of Islam and build schools, hospitals, housing, etc. and sometimes wonder how he does all that. He has a very tight schedule. We do not see room for private life. His wives were tired because they had come with high expectations that they will have a luxurious life. I have relatives working for him and even they say that Imam never rests. He is all the time on the go.
What makes you think "what wikipedia says is true, and not concorted, or picked up from cheap trashy magazines who rely on illiterates like you to buy their papers and feed to wikipedia. First of all, all parties had agreed not to discuss anything. This was done in court. But you seem privy to the information. You are a pathetic person. Looks like you have a side business with wikipedia wherein you provide them with whatever comes to your mind and they accept it.
No Sunni Muslim country is helping Iraq. Look at your brothers, ISIS. Maliki runs to America. Why America? Why not Saudia? You know why? They are busy running to the Syrian borders, i.e. Jordan and Turkey, to pick up young brides. Mark my words, if and when calm returns to Syria and Iraq, Inshallah!, Aga Khan will be there to help rebuild. As an Imam, it is his mandate to support people after war, or when people are in need like he did in Tajikistan, Afghanistan, Uganda, etc.
As it is , he is already helping people in Syria and refugees in Jordan with food, tents, clothing, medicines, etc. Ask the UN agencies, they will tell you. Not wikipedia.
People whom you call Ali Worshippers (Shias), are brave and they are willing to help the Iraqis.
Have you ever heard Iranians running to borders to pick up young brides. Ali worshippers are brave like Ali.
May Allah SWT give you Nek Taufik. You really need it.
-
JavedhJuma
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm
Re: Shias and Sunnis
This is what I picked up from one of the participants on the forum under the sub-heading Letter to.....
There is a saying in Gujarati: Navra betha Nakhod ware. Suits you like a T. Get a job instead of wasting time on fitnahs, fatwas and lies and save your Soul. It is Allah SWT's Amanat, you will have to answer for it.
Good Luck.
See there are all kinds of people who write bad things about Prophet SAW, too. So it does not surprise me to see what pathetic people like you write.Charlatans like Mohammad Al Arefi (the man who blamed Rasul (S.A.W) selling alchohol and involvement in fatwas like sexual jehad) and Abdal Aziz the grand mufti!!! ( who claimed baya of yazid was legitimate and Aqa Hussain was wrong) ,look at them, you can see the laanat on their faces!!!!..........
There is a saying in Gujarati: Navra betha Nakhod ware. Suits you like a T. Get a job instead of wasting time on fitnahs, fatwas and lies and save your Soul. It is Allah SWT's Amanat, you will have to answer for it.
Good Luck.
-
JavedhJuma
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm
Re: Shias and Sunnis
My Friend:
Please see my comments in greeen
[/b]
Please see my comments in greeen
[/b]
You haven't clarified as to where you heard him say "Niyaz". As usual you are a liar. I have heard him say Niyaz many times and it has always been clear. You are a pathetic liar.Muslim First wrote:Again you brag about this majority. What great thing has it done?
And what are achievements of Minority?creating fitnahs?
Show me the achievements of the majority first. They sit with folded arms while the Ummah is burning. Or they run to borders to get young brides and take advantage of displaced people in the war, instead of helping them. Go to akdn.org and see what the minority has done; or go to Shia sites and see what their charitable organizations are doing. They do no sit on their ass or run to the borders to pick up brides. How many of the majpority help Edhi foundation. Guy is struggling by himself.
Read history, who created Fitnah?
Your Aboos did. After "congratulating Hazrat Ali AS for his appointment at Ghadir, Hazarat Umar RA, left the dead body of Rasul SAW and ran to Sakifa to chose a leader!. Didn't you say: "Hazarat Umar congratulated Hazarat Ali?
abolishing Islamic heritage.
Islamic heritage is only in graves and Dargahs, and personal artifacts only?Says who, Wikipedia? Islamic heritage is all that no longer exists thanks to your Aboos: Hazarat Bibi Khadija's house; Prophets Parlor where he received his guests.
Hazarat Umar RA and Hazarat Abu Bakar's graves, including that of the Prophet SAW. How come they are preserved and not destroyed if graves and dargahs are to be destroyed, huh? And why destroy personal artifacts. Why things like Prophet's hair and nails are preserved in the Mosque in Jerusalem????
The majority who revolted against Aqa Hussain (A.S).
Again read History. Majority or Minority had no say in what happened. It was a arrogant, shelfis and mad authority in charge.
They were same as Saddam and Assad. Imam Hussein was advised by elders not to go to Kufa. He trusted his supporters but they chickened out. And that is historical fact.
This same majority has ruined Islam.
in which way?
judging other sects and declaring kafirs......ummmm.
So let them.
Quran mentions Allah has given us 'Akal' think for yourself.
Why don't you practice that first. read Quran and tell me where does it say " Muhammad is king of a Islam and his Progeny will rule ta Quyamat. where does it say there will be Gaib Imam or Hiding Imam or Hazir Imam ( who cannot even say "Niyaz" properly)
-
JavedhJuma
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm
Re: Shias and Sunnis
MF, I am saving the best for last. It is getting late. now. Good Night.
-
ghulam muhammed
- Posts: 11653
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 pm
-
JavedhJuma
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm
Re: Shias and Sunnis
Brother Ghulam, You always come out with the right stuff at the right moment.
I do not like to attack any faith, but when my faith or my Imam are challenged, I cannot sit idle.
I have a lot of Shia and Sunni friends but they never talk about religion because each one is secured in his belief. It is like when people like MF, who are insecure, they start attacking others.
The reason why all religions teach peace but people do not live in peace, because people like MF, have holier and thou attitude. There will never be peace in Islam as long as people like MF and ISIS(L) exist. It looks like Qayamat is near.
I have not finished with him. I will show him through the history of Islam what Prophets did and are still accepted as Prophets.
Thanks for the upper again.
I do not like to attack any faith, but when my faith or my Imam are challenged, I cannot sit idle.
I have a lot of Shia and Sunni friends but they never talk about religion because each one is secured in his belief. It is like when people like MF, who are insecure, they start attacking others.
The reason why all religions teach peace but people do not live in peace, because people like MF, have holier and thou attitude. There will never be peace in Islam as long as people like MF and ISIS(L) exist. It looks like Qayamat is near.
I have not finished with him. I will show him through the history of Islam what Prophets did and are still accepted as Prophets.
Thanks for the upper again.
-
JavedhJuma
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:47 pm
Re: Shias and Sunnis
MF,
This is the last of my posts on the subject.
As an Ismaili,follower of a Present Imam, I do not question anything about his life or his family‘s life , or his private life because I believe, whatever happens in his life is pre-ordained by Allah SWT, just the way the Prophets’lives were and we, as Muslims never question them.
Let us start from Hazarat Adam AS. He and his wife did not obey Allah’s faramin. Allah SWT punished them but did not revoke his Naboowat. His son murdered his brother yet we do not consider Adam AS as a father or murderer, but as Calipha of Allah SWT.
Noah’s son was a kafir. We do not refer to him as a father of Kafir but as our Nabi.
Moosa AS had murdered an Egyptian before Allah bestowed Nabuwat on him. We do not consider him as a murderer but as a Prophet SAW.
Look at what Dawood Nabi AS and Sulaman Nabi AS did. Bukhari has validated it:
SOLOMON
Ar: Sulaiman.
Heb: Shelomoh ().
Son of David through Bathsheba. Bathsheba was the wife of Uriah, a soldier in David's army. After an adulterous affair, Bathsheba was pregnant and David schemed to have Uriah killed in battle. After Uriah's death, David married Bathsheba but God took away their baby. After David repented, Solomon was born to them.
Solomon reigned as King of Israel and expanded its territories during his reign. Had a reputation of being wise
Solomon is also known as a man with many women in the thousands. Islam also agrees that Solomon had many women. For example, in one of the hadiths, he was said to have sex with 70 women in one night (Sahih Bukhari 4.635)!
Solomon fell into idolatry later. The Kingdom of Israel was divided into two after his death.
and David, al-Anbiya' 21:78; an-Naml 27:15
and producing children
Narrated Abu Huraira:
(The Prophet) Solomon said, "Tonight I will sleep with (my) ninety wives, each of whom will get a male child who will fight for Allah's Cause." On that, his companion (Sufyan said that his companion was an angel) said to him, "Say, "If Allah will (Allah willing)." But Solomon forgot (to say it). He slept with all his wives, but none of the women gave birth to a child, except one who gave birth to a halfboy. Abu Huraira added: The Prophet said, "If Solomon had said, "If Allah will" (Allah willing), he would not have been unsuccessful in his action, and would have attained what he had desired." Once Abu Huraira added: Allah apostle said, "If he had accepted." (Sahih Bukhari 8.711)
Now would you say, Aisha Nabi hota hai?
Issa Nabi AS was born without a father. People of his time, some of whom were like you, mocked him. He was once lying in the lap of a prostitute and people like you condemned him. We accept him as our Prophet. Don’t we?
Prophet SAW married his step son’s wife! If you were born then would you have said, Aisha Nabi hota hai?
He had his problems with his wives but he could not divorce them, because he was not allowed to. Otherwise he would have because he was fed up with them. Read Sura Tahrim with understanding it.
Lastly if Zahra,, Rahim, Hussein, married Christians, what is wrong with that. Prophet’s daughter, Zainab was married to a kafir whom the Prophet bailed out twice, once with Hazarat Bibi Khadija’s necklace and he still refused to convert, however, in the end he converted.
Prophet had also married a Christian and a Jew, Mary the Copt and Sofia respectively.
Now would you question his Nabuwat?
And please read following and remember not to slander anybody because the punishment is grave.
May Allah SWT bless you with Nek Taufiq
Verily those who brought forth the slander (against ‘Aishah) are a group among you. Consider it not a bad thing for you. Nay, it is good for you. Unto every man among them will be paid that which he had earned of the sin, and as for him among them who had the greater share therein, his will be a great torment. (11).
Why then, did not the believers, men and women, when you heard it (the slander), think good of their own people and say: "This (charge) is an obvious lie ?" (12)
Why did they not produce four witnesses? Since they (the slanderers) have not produced witnesses! Then with Allah they are the liars. (13)
Had it not been for the Grace of Allah and His Mercy unto you in this world and in the Hereafter, a great torment would have touched you for that whereof you had spoken. (14)
When you were propagating it with your tongues, and uttering with your mouths that whereof you had no knowledge, you counted it a little thing, while with Allah it was very great. (15)
And why did you not, when you heard it, say: "It is not right for us to speak of this. Glory be to You (O Allah)! This is a great lie." (16)
Allah forbids you from it and warns you not to repeat the like of it forever, if you are believers. (17)
And Allah makes the Ayat (proofs, evidence, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) plain to you, and Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. (18)
Verily, those who like that (the crime of) illegal sexual intercourse should be propagated among those who believe, they will have a painful torment in this world and in the Hereafter. And Allah knows and you know not. (19)
And had it not been for the Grace of Allah and His Mercy on you, (Allah would have hastened the punishment upon you). And that Allah is full of Kindness, Most Merciful. (20)
O you who believe! Follow not the footsteps of Shaitan (Satan). And whosoever follows the footsteps of Shaitan (Satan), then, verily he commands Al-Fahsha’ [i.e. to commit indecency (illegal sexual intercourse)], and Al-Munkar [disbelief and polytheism (i.e. to do evil and wicked deeds; and to speak or to do what is forbidden in Islam)]. And had it not been for the Grace of Allah and His Mercy on you, not one of you would ever have been pure from sins. But Allah purifies (guides to Islam) whom He wills, and Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower. (21) 
This is the last of my posts on the subject.
As an Ismaili,follower of a Present Imam, I do not question anything about his life or his family‘s life , or his private life because I believe, whatever happens in his life is pre-ordained by Allah SWT, just the way the Prophets’lives were and we, as Muslims never question them.
Let us start from Hazarat Adam AS. He and his wife did not obey Allah’s faramin. Allah SWT punished them but did not revoke his Naboowat. His son murdered his brother yet we do not consider Adam AS as a father or murderer, but as Calipha of Allah SWT.
Noah’s son was a kafir. We do not refer to him as a father of Kafir but as our Nabi.
Moosa AS had murdered an Egyptian before Allah bestowed Nabuwat on him. We do not consider him as a murderer but as a Prophet SAW.
Look at what Dawood Nabi AS and Sulaman Nabi AS did. Bukhari has validated it:
SOLOMON
Ar: Sulaiman.
Heb: Shelomoh ().
Son of David through Bathsheba. Bathsheba was the wife of Uriah, a soldier in David's army. After an adulterous affair, Bathsheba was pregnant and David schemed to have Uriah killed in battle. After Uriah's death, David married Bathsheba but God took away their baby. After David repented, Solomon was born to them.
Solomon reigned as King of Israel and expanded its territories during his reign. Had a reputation of being wise
Solomon is also known as a man with many women in the thousands. Islam also agrees that Solomon had many women. For example, in one of the hadiths, he was said to have sex with 70 women in one night (Sahih Bukhari 4.635)!
Solomon fell into idolatry later. The Kingdom of Israel was divided into two after his death.
and David, al-Anbiya' 21:78; an-Naml 27:15
and producing children
Narrated Abu Huraira:
(The Prophet) Solomon said, "Tonight I will sleep with (my) ninety wives, each of whom will get a male child who will fight for Allah's Cause." On that, his companion (Sufyan said that his companion was an angel) said to him, "Say, "If Allah will (Allah willing)." But Solomon forgot (to say it). He slept with all his wives, but none of the women gave birth to a child, except one who gave birth to a halfboy. Abu Huraira added: The Prophet said, "If Solomon had said, "If Allah will" (Allah willing), he would not have been unsuccessful in his action, and would have attained what he had desired." Once Abu Huraira added: Allah apostle said, "If he had accepted." (Sahih Bukhari 8.711)
Now would you say, Aisha Nabi hota hai?
Issa Nabi AS was born without a father. People of his time, some of whom were like you, mocked him. He was once lying in the lap of a prostitute and people like you condemned him. We accept him as our Prophet. Don’t we?
Prophet SAW married his step son’s wife! If you were born then would you have said, Aisha Nabi hota hai?
He had his problems with his wives but he could not divorce them, because he was not allowed to. Otherwise he would have because he was fed up with them. Read Sura Tahrim with understanding it.
Lastly if Zahra,, Rahim, Hussein, married Christians, what is wrong with that. Prophet’s daughter, Zainab was married to a kafir whom the Prophet bailed out twice, once with Hazarat Bibi Khadija’s necklace and he still refused to convert, however, in the end he converted.
Prophet had also married a Christian and a Jew, Mary the Copt and Sofia respectively.
Now would you question his Nabuwat?
And please read following and remember not to slander anybody because the punishment is grave.
May Allah SWT bless you with Nek Taufiq
Verily those who brought forth the slander (against ‘Aishah) are a group among you. Consider it not a bad thing for you. Nay, it is good for you. Unto every man among them will be paid that which he had earned of the sin, and as for him among them who had the greater share therein, his will be a great torment. (11).
Why then, did not the believers, men and women, when you heard it (the slander), think good of their own people and say: "This (charge) is an obvious lie ?" (12)
Why did they not produce four witnesses? Since they (the slanderers) have not produced witnesses! Then with Allah they are the liars. (13)
Had it not been for the Grace of Allah and His Mercy unto you in this world and in the Hereafter, a great torment would have touched you for that whereof you had spoken. (14)
When you were propagating it with your tongues, and uttering with your mouths that whereof you had no knowledge, you counted it a little thing, while with Allah it was very great. (15)
And why did you not, when you heard it, say: "It is not right for us to speak of this. Glory be to You (O Allah)! This is a great lie." (16)
Allah forbids you from it and warns you not to repeat the like of it forever, if you are believers. (17)
And Allah makes the Ayat (proofs, evidence, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) plain to you, and Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. (18)
Verily, those who like that (the crime of) illegal sexual intercourse should be propagated among those who believe, they will have a painful torment in this world and in the Hereafter. And Allah knows and you know not. (19)
And had it not been for the Grace of Allah and His Mercy on you, (Allah would have hastened the punishment upon you). And that Allah is full of Kindness, Most Merciful. (20)
O you who believe! Follow not the footsteps of Shaitan (Satan). And whosoever follows the footsteps of Shaitan (Satan), then, verily he commands Al-Fahsha’ [i.e. to commit indecency (illegal sexual intercourse)], and Al-Munkar [disbelief and polytheism (i.e. to do evil and wicked deeds; and to speak or to do what is forbidden in Islam)]. And had it not been for the Grace of Allah and His Mercy on you, not one of you would ever have been pure from sins. But Allah purifies (guides to Islam) whom He wills, and Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower. (21) 
-
qutub_mamajiwala
- Posts: 1059
- Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am
Re: Shias and Sunnis
The late King of Saudi Arabia, his 'secret' Christian wife and the missing £12 million
Janan Harb, the 'secret' Christian wife of the late King of Saudi Arabia King Fahd.
RELATED
3 Indians arrested for taking private tuitions in Saudi Arabia5 Indians killed in road accident in Saudi ArabiaSaudi Arabia reports five new MERS deaths, toll now 168Indian driver shot dead by employer's son in Saudi ArabiaSaudi Arabia beggar dies leaving million-dollar fortune behind
LONDON: In a landmark case, the "secret" Christian wife of the late King of Saudi Arabia has won the right to sue his son and Saudi prince for breaching a contract to pay £12 million to her for retracting damaging allegations about the late King.
Janan George Harb, the widow of late King Fahd Bin Abdul Aziz (the former King of Saudi Arabia and custodian of the two holy Mosques who passed away in 2005), is suing the King's son, Prince Abdul Aziz Bin Fahd, for breach of contract in the United Kingdom.
The high court in London saw Mrs Justice Rose rule on Monday that the claim could proceed despite Prince Aziz claiming "state immunity" from the British legal system.
The Prince supposedly entered into a contract with Janan Harb — now a British citizen — in 2003 at the Dorchester Hotel in London.
The Prince promised to pay Harb £12 million and to transfer two properties in Chelsea to her daughters in exchange for a Statutory Declaration from Janan Harb withdrawing certain assertions she had made in her matrimonial proceedings against the King.
Janan Harb (65) was married to King Fahd in 1968, when she was 19 and was forced to leave Saudi Arabia before King Fahd ascended to the throne in 1982.
"After 12 years of persistence I am very happy and relieved," Janan Harb said after the ruling. "If the prince is going to appeal, I am going to accept the offer of the movie of the book I have written - I am going to spill the beans."
Late King Fahd Bin Abdul Aziz, the former King of Saudi Arabia
Mandeep Kaur Virdee, solicitor-advocate at Neumans LLP, acting for Mrs Harb said, "Mrs Harb fulfilled her end of the contract, however, the Prince failed to pay her the £12 million and transfer the two properties to her daughters as agreed. The Prince acknowledged the claim made by Harb, but refused to submit to UK jurisdiction. Instead, the Prince made an immunity application, which was heard on May 1, 2014. The Prince claimed that he did not submit to our UK jurisdiction for reasons of relying on his late father's immunity as a sovereign head of state."
"Janan Harb is passionate about sharing her personal account of what it is truly like to be married to a Saudi King and believes the exposure will be of public interest. Her story has received international interest from film producers and she is currently in detailed discussions to progress the adaptation of her book into a film. There are also negotiations under way with regard to the publishing of her book in advance of this." Virdee said.
Janan George Harb, the 'secret' Christian wife of the late King Fahd
Mrs Justice Rose concluded that she shall "dismiss the Prince's application and hold that the Prince cannot rely on a defence of state immunity to defeat Harb's claim."
Virdee said, "We are delighted with the outcome of this Judgment. The law surrounding this area has already established, confirming that personal immunity ceases when a head of State is no longer in office for any reason. The Prince's application sought to extend the personal immunity privilege by suggesting that if a Sovereign dies whilst still an acting monarch, the deceased and their agents could continue to enjoy the privilege of personal immunity. It was a dangerous attempt to extend the scope of personal immunity, but we are reassured now that the Judge has firmly rejected it."
He added, "This Judgment confirms that once a Sovereign is out of office for whatever reason, including death, personal immunity does not survive. We have been made aware that Middle Eastern Royals are in the habit of claiming immunity in jurisdictions where claims have been made against them. This judgment is now legal precedent and sends a strong message that the UK Courts will not allow the privilege afforded to those claiming sovereign or diplomatic immunity to be abused in our jurisdiction."
Janan Harb, the 'secret' Christian wife of the late King of Saudi Arabia King Fahd.
RELATED
3 Indians arrested for taking private tuitions in Saudi Arabia5 Indians killed in road accident in Saudi ArabiaSaudi Arabia reports five new MERS deaths, toll now 168Indian driver shot dead by employer's son in Saudi ArabiaSaudi Arabia beggar dies leaving million-dollar fortune behind
LONDON: In a landmark case, the "secret" Christian wife of the late King of Saudi Arabia has won the right to sue his son and Saudi prince for breaching a contract to pay £12 million to her for retracting damaging allegations about the late King.
Janan George Harb, the widow of late King Fahd Bin Abdul Aziz (the former King of Saudi Arabia and custodian of the two holy Mosques who passed away in 2005), is suing the King's son, Prince Abdul Aziz Bin Fahd, for breach of contract in the United Kingdom.
The high court in London saw Mrs Justice Rose rule on Monday that the claim could proceed despite Prince Aziz claiming "state immunity" from the British legal system.
The Prince supposedly entered into a contract with Janan Harb — now a British citizen — in 2003 at the Dorchester Hotel in London.
The Prince promised to pay Harb £12 million and to transfer two properties in Chelsea to her daughters in exchange for a Statutory Declaration from Janan Harb withdrawing certain assertions she had made in her matrimonial proceedings against the King.
Janan Harb (65) was married to King Fahd in 1968, when she was 19 and was forced to leave Saudi Arabia before King Fahd ascended to the throne in 1982.
"After 12 years of persistence I am very happy and relieved," Janan Harb said after the ruling. "If the prince is going to appeal, I am going to accept the offer of the movie of the book I have written - I am going to spill the beans."
Late King Fahd Bin Abdul Aziz, the former King of Saudi Arabia
Mandeep Kaur Virdee, solicitor-advocate at Neumans LLP, acting for Mrs Harb said, "Mrs Harb fulfilled her end of the contract, however, the Prince failed to pay her the £12 million and transfer the two properties to her daughters as agreed. The Prince acknowledged the claim made by Harb, but refused to submit to UK jurisdiction. Instead, the Prince made an immunity application, which was heard on May 1, 2014. The Prince claimed that he did not submit to our UK jurisdiction for reasons of relying on his late father's immunity as a sovereign head of state."
"Janan Harb is passionate about sharing her personal account of what it is truly like to be married to a Saudi King and believes the exposure will be of public interest. Her story has received international interest from film producers and she is currently in detailed discussions to progress the adaptation of her book into a film. There are also negotiations under way with regard to the publishing of her book in advance of this." Virdee said.
Janan George Harb, the 'secret' Christian wife of the late King Fahd
Mrs Justice Rose concluded that she shall "dismiss the Prince's application and hold that the Prince cannot rely on a defence of state immunity to defeat Harb's claim."
Virdee said, "We are delighted with the outcome of this Judgment. The law surrounding this area has already established, confirming that personal immunity ceases when a head of State is no longer in office for any reason. The Prince's application sought to extend the personal immunity privilege by suggesting that if a Sovereign dies whilst still an acting monarch, the deceased and their agents could continue to enjoy the privilege of personal immunity. It was a dangerous attempt to extend the scope of personal immunity, but we are reassured now that the Judge has firmly rejected it."
He added, "This Judgment confirms that once a Sovereign is out of office for whatever reason, including death, personal immunity does not survive. We have been made aware that Middle Eastern Royals are in the habit of claiming immunity in jurisdictions where claims have been made against them. This judgment is now legal precedent and sends a strong message that the UK Courts will not allow the privilege afforded to those claiming sovereign or diplomatic immunity to be abused in our jurisdiction."
-
qutub_mamajiwala
- Posts: 1059
- Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:17 am