Why Mufaddal did not accept MUBAHILA challenge?

[ContentedBohra]

I find it strange that even according to MS' version, he is relying on other persons input that nass was done on him. Whether it is his brothers or Moiz or some letter. They claim that MS was always with Burhanuddin Mola RA, but in all the time never once did Burhanuddin Mola RA directly told him about nass while according to them Burhanuddin Mola RA did tell to others about it. At best, it was an indirect reference to some letter on some date. No wonder then that MS does not want to come for Mubahila or take Quran in his hand. On what basis? He has not heard it directly. One wonders if he himself has some doubt about it.

I know that all will jump and point out about Raudat Tahera where according to them he would have heard it directly. But did he? This forum is full of evidence proving that Burhanuddin Mola RA could not be heard inspite the fact that he was being asked to read from a text in front of him. Even the official misal says that Moiz announced (in other words, not directly heard). The arguments that MS believers have made here in support of their claim is mostly a circumstantial indication. Hence, the unwillingness to come forward for Mubahila.

[Haqq_Prevails]

coming back to thread topic, asking for MUBAHILA was unislamic and KQ should not expect any reply from SMS on this.

YH, if asking for Mubahila unIslamic why did Rasulullah ask the Christians to come to a Mubahila?

[DELETED]

[YaHussain]

coming back to thread topic, asking for MUBAHILA was unislamic and KQ should not expect any reply from SMS on this.

YH, if asking for Mubahila unIslamic why did Rasulullah ask the Christians to come to a Mubahila?

[DELETED]

Rasulullah(s) didnt called for Mubhahila with Muslim, read complete discussion before proving your self an idiot.
seriously whole KQ jamaat sounds like kinder garden kids.
do you guys even keep Quraaan in your house or do you just read books from western kafir authors ?

[Haqq_Prevails]

YH, if asking for Mubahila unIslamic why did Rasulullah ask the Christians to come to a Mubahila?

[DELETED]

Rasulullah(s) didnt called for Mubhahila with Muslim, read complete discussion before proving your self an idiot.
seriously whole KQ jamaat sounds like kinder garden kids.
do you guys even keep Quraaan in your house or do you just read books from western kafir authors ?

Mubahila would decide who is truthful and who is a liar, all Muslims are not necessarily truthful, e.g. Mufatlal claims to be a Muslim but he is still a Liar!

[fustrate_Bohra]

YH, if asking for Mubahila unIslamic why did Rasulullah ask the Christians to come to a Mubahila?

[DELETED]

Rasulullah(s) didnt called for Mubhahila with Muslim, read complete discussion before proving your self an idiot.
seriously whole KQ jamaat sounds like kinder garden kids.
do you guys even keep Quraaan in your house or do you just read books from western kafir authors ?

Ok fine agreed that rasulallah did not ask mubahila with muslims and it is for CHRISTAINS.

According to me rasulallah was trying to convince pagaan and other religion that he had recd call from allah for islam and it was this christains who were not at all willing to accept his call and on the contrary they blame that rasulallah is lying and he is not prophet. So inorder to make people believe he asked for mubahila with christains so that DOODH KA DOODH AUR PANI PANI HO JAYE. Just because rasulallah was true he asked for mubahila.
(this is my personal view, please correct if i misunderstood)

What i am trying to say is kqs had ask for mubahila because he knows he is correct and TRUE and according to him this was the best way were all the SMB followers would know who is on haq and so that they can answer his call.

And YH please dont hide ur MS cow***ness by saying this as unislamic as they are many unislamic things going on in our community.

One more thing IS HAVING DEBATE IS ALSO UNISLAMIC? If no than why dont he come and defeat kqs, instead of showing physical power why dont he show his knowledge(ILM) power.

[Al Zulfiqar]

i have said it before and repeating it again, mufatlal could not and did not accept the mubahila challenge because he did not know the meaning of the word.

the only person with true ilm he could ask its meaning was the rightful dai SKQ, and obviously a criminal cannot seek the prosecuting lawyers help.

[humanbeing]

asking for MUBAHILA was unislamic and KQ should not expect any reply from SMS on this.

Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) cannot do anything unislamic. There is nothing unislamic about Mubahila, just because SMS is not comfortable with it, does not make it Unislamic. SMS can also come forward to respond to SKQ call for debate and also pledge upon Quran about his truthfulness. The Nuss drama they have orchestrated is well accepted by masses, so why fear. Plus pledging on Quran is a simple gesture. Deep down it feels good SMS is not coming forward to this suggestion, there seems a ray of hope, that SMS fears Allah somewhere in his heart.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

@YH
forget about mubahila then, if it is unislamic.
what about manazara--debate?
KQ has asked for that also.
is that is also unislamic?

[fustrate_Bohra]

Hb, i think ms can go to any level. He is not pledging on quran because current situation does not demand for as everything is under his favor BUT if the times come he will not have second thought a will do pledge on quran.


According to me i think the only way he can win the hearts is by accepting DEBATE challenge given by kqs.

If MS wins from KQS he will surely gain more followers and respect from many others so called bhatkela(as MS followers say).

Uptill now we had only seen his muscle power, political power, money power, laanat bazi and gali galoch I will be more than happy to see his KNOWLEDGE power.

And yes until and unless he dont come forward for debate than it is deem CONFIRMED that he is afraid of KQS and MS followers are BHATKELA.

Followers of SMB who is with MS please give a thought as to WHY MS IS RUNNING AWAY FROM DEBATE WITH KQS?

[humanbeing]

Such debate should also be held in sanctity of a masjid and open to public. like a waaz, which can be relayed world-wide. then one can see, the jalaal and noor of true DAI

[allbird]

@YH
forget about mubahila then, if it is unislamic.
what about manazara--debate?
KQ has asked for that also.
is that is also unislamic?

Forget about debates and arguments. The fact is here for real .. we have sub-division in bohra sect MS bohra and KQ bohra. Lets all accept the fact we have two community now and follow whichever you want. and move on.

[Universaldad]

@YH
forget about mubahila then, if it is unislamic.
what about manazara--debate?
KQ has asked for that also.
is that is also unislamic?

Forget about debates and arguments. The fact is here for real .. we have sub-division in bohra sect MS bohra and KQ bohra. Lets all accept the fact we have two community now and follow whichever you want. and move on.

Yes there are the Dawoodi Bohras who are the followers of SMS TUS, SMB RA, STS RA and all duat before them and then there is a new Firkee, a new innovative cult know as the Khozemites or Khozemees who are the followers of KQ and his ego.

[kimanumanu]

You meant Mufaddali Bohra.

[Dumbledore]

SMS TUS should do a one to one debate with KQ TUS.

We bohras are into deliemma as to who is rightful dai, so with this it becomes clear to the community.

On the other hand a person holding The Glorious Quran cannot be doubted

[Universaldad]

You meant Mufaddali Bohra.

One noticeable fact of KQ's Khozemite bunch is that the majority of these people were never close to SMB RA and any Duat. Majority of Khozemites were and still continue to be on the fringe of islam. Most Khozemites are involved in Mohrammat like drinking, smoking, zina (sleeping around before marriage,extramarital affairs), interest, eating haram foods (pork) etc...

Now the question is, is KQ going to allow these practices and make it a main stay of his cult? or is he planning to clamp down on this and risk losing the few people he has in his fold?

KQ and his sons are in a desperate spot.. their weekly publication suggest this by the people whom they have chosen to lead in various places.

[UnhappyBohra]

You meant Mufaddali Bohra.

One noticeable fact of KQ's Khozemite bunch is that the majority of these people were never close to SMB RA and any Duat. Majority of Khozemites were and still continue to be on the fringe of islam. Most Khozemites are involved in Mohrammat like drinking, smoking, zina (sleeping around before marriage,extramarital affairs), interest, eating haram foods (pork) etc...

Now the question is, is KQ going to allow these practices and make it a main stay of his cult? or is he planning to clamp down on this and risk losing the few people he has in his fold?

KQ and his sons are in a desperate spot.. their weekly publication suggest this by the people whom they have chosen to lead in various places.

One noticeable fact about MS followers is that MS surgically removed big portions of his followers brains right after they forcefully gave misaaq. Then he enlarged their cerebellum to increase their reflexes to say lanat every time he gets mad on takhat and to chant Moula Moula at the slightest signal.

[think_for_yourself]

You meant Mufaddali Bohra.

One noticeable fact of KQ's Khozemite bunch is that the majority of these people were never close to SMB RA and any Duat. Majority of Khozemites were and still continue to be on the fringe of islam. Most Khozemites are involved in Mohrammat like drinking, smoking, zina (sleeping around before marriage,extramarital affairs), interest, eating haram foods (pork) etc...

Now the question is, is KQ going to allow these practices and make it a main stay of his cult? or is he planning to clamp down on this and risk losing the few people he has in his fold?

KQ and his sons are in a desperate spot.. their weekly publication suggest this by the people whom they have chosen to lead in various places.

Is that why MS felt so compelled to get us back? Is that why he sent emissary after emissary from high places to beg us to come back? The truth is that he is scared that well respected community members are leaving so he is letting loose trolls like Unidad and helping them out from the takhat. This is the sad state of MS Dawat. Thousands and thousands apparently following them but no peace or confidence or safety in numbers and always living in fear of when the next one might leave.

[SBM]

One noticeable fact of KQ's Khozemite bunch is that the majority of these people were never close to SMB RA and any Duat.

So how come SMB kept SKQ as his Mazoon for 50 years and SMS and all the Goons kept on invoking SKQ's name during the Misaq.
Since SMB kept SKQ as Mazoon till his death is proof enough that SKQ was closer to SMB then SMS and other Goons

[UnhappyBohra]

he is letting loose trolls like Unidad and helping them out from the takhat.

Indeed Mufaddal Saifuddin is the biggest Takhat Troll... He is too cacooned to have ever gone online but somehow he has mastered the characteristics of the worst byproduct of the internet age!

[fustrate_Bohra]

I think this challenge for DEBATE should be highlight and should be publicize in leading newspaper or somewhere where people can notice because apart from Kqs follower and the visitors of this forum NOBODY knows about this challenge given by KQS. People should be aware that KQS had not knocked the door of court directly but before that he had challenged MS for MUBAHILA and DEBATE.

People currently only knows of GALE LAGAWI LAIS drama but these people are unaware of peaceful solution provided by KQS.

Experience members suggest will this be any fruitful?

[humanbeing]

Subject: Why Mufaddal did not accept MUBAHILA challenge?

Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) cannot do anything unislamic. There is nothing unislamic about Mubahila, just because SMS is not comfortable with it, does not make it Unislamic. SMS can also come forward to respond to SKQ call for debate and also pledge upon Quran about his truthfulness. The Nuss drama they have orchestrated is well accepted by masses, so why fear. Plus pledging on Quran is a simple gesture. Deep down it feels good SMS is not coming forward to this suggestion, there seems a ray of hope, that SMS fears Allah somewhere in his heart.

I never said prophet did any thing unislamic, please read the whole thing again, I can give fitting reply to you and all on forum, but Admin again wet his pant die to truth and he kept me on moderation and not let my post go through.

post this OM on forum so every one knows what has happend.

Ya-Hussain

Please give your fitting reply, I open to understand your POV.

Mubahila is not unislamic, prophet did it to Christians is just a reference of the act. Please correct me if wrong, did prophet muhammed said in his hadeeth or does quran in any ayat states ; that mubahila can be used only with Christians ?

Let’s forget mubahila, how about a simple public debate ? Anyways abdes have full confidence, support, faith, trust in SMS and his claim / position of a DAI. SMS has support of millions abdes, he has more advantage and leverage in the debate then SKQ. Previous duaats, Imams and prophets have debated and argues countless times on the path of righteousness. Why and What prevents SMS from finishing SKQ’s claim. If SMS enjoys laanatbaazi, cursing, baraat and violence against SKQ and his followers, he own the responsibility to have a public debate, else he shud refrain from laanatbazi on his own blood line.

[kimanumanu]

Let’s forget mubahila, how about a simple public debate ? Anyways abdes have full confidence, support, faith, trust in SMS and his claim / position of a DAI. SMS has support of millions abdes, he has more advantage and leverage in the debate then SKQ. Previous duaats, Imams and prophets have debated and argues countless times on the path of righteousness. Why and What prevents SMS from finishing SKQ’s claim. If SMS enjoys laanatbaazi, cursing, baraat and violence against SKQ and his followers, he own the responsibility to have a public debate, else he shud refrain from laanatbazi on his own blood line.

One of the reasons he does not/cannot take part in debate is because there is no mention of nass being done on him directly by Syedna Burhanuddin RA. Each account of nass is via witnesses. The one instance where he said that he was shown the diary entry he explicitly stated that he does not remember when it happened. And the Raudat Tahera episode was staged as nass was performed by Dr. Moiz. So he genuinely does not have anything to stand on in a debate. All he can offer are the Shehzadas (and Shehzadi?), Dr. Moiz (and his son?) and the now deceased witnesses from the diary entry. Which is rather convenient as he cannot be held to account.

[ghulam muhammed]

Most Khozemites are involved in Mohrammat like drinking, smoking, zina (sleeping around before marriage,extramarital affairs), interest, eating haram foods (pork) etc...

Are you talking about Mufaddalis because his right hand man and the apple of his eye, Badri Lacewala is OPENLY indulging in extra marital affairs and zina in Surat, you can confirm it from your sources in Surat as this has spread like wildfire. He has even bought his mistress a sprawling flat at Indrapasth bldg., Piplod for Rs.2.5 crores from another Kothari agent, Ilyas Railwaywala and this Ilyas who is partner with Qaid Johar in many projects like the one in Bhestan OPENLY gives money on interest.

[zinger]

You meant Mufaddali Bohra.

One noticeable fact of KQ's Khozemite bunch is that the majority of these people were never close to SMB RA and any Duat. Majority of Khozemites were and still continue to be on the fringe of islam. Most Khozemites are involved in Mohrammat like drinking, smoking, zina (sleeping around before marriage,extramarital affairs), interest, eating haram foods (pork) etc...

Now the question is, is KQ going to allow these practices and make it a main stay of his cult? or is he planning to clamp down on this and risk losing the few people he has in his fold?

KQ and his sons are in a desperate spot.. their weekly publication suggest this by the people whom they have chosen to lead in various places.

Oh shut up you fool. I have told you this before and i say it again. dont open your mouth, only trash comes out of it.
fine example you are setting about followers of Mufaddal Maula

[Universaldad]

One noticeable fact of KQ's Khozemite bunch is that the majority of these people were never close to SMB RA and any Duat. Majority of Khozemites were and still continue to be on the fringe of islam. Most Khozemites are involved in Mohrammat like drinking, smoking, zina (sleeping around before marriage,extramarital affairs), interest, eating haram foods (pork) etc...

Now the question is, is KQ going to allow these practices and make it a main stay of his cult? or is he planning to clamp down on this and risk losing the few people he has in his fold?

KQ and his sons are in a desperate spot.. their weekly publication suggest this by the people whom they have chosen to lead in various places.

Oh shut up you fool. I have told you this before and i say it again. dont open your mouth, only trash comes out of it.
fine example you are setting about followers of Mufaddal Maula

ha ha ha....

the Khozemites and their supporters feel pain cause truth hurts..... Eka duka toli all damned to hell fire.

[zinger]

Oh shut up you fool. I have told you this before and i say it again. dont open your mouth, only trash comes out of it.
fine example you are setting about followers of Mufaddal Maula

ha ha ha....

the Khozemites and their supporters feel pain cause truth hurts..... Eka duka toli all damned to hell fire.

UD, for the record, im not a follower of ex-Mazun Maula.

But i would like you to consider this. the blood that flows in the vein of ex-Mazun is the same that flows in the veins of Mufaddal Maula, Burhanuddin Maula RA and Taher Saifuddin Maula RA (just reminding you, so that the next time you decide to abuse someone, you know which bloodline/lineage u are abusing)

[asad]

UD, for the record, im not a follower of ex-Mazun Maula.

But i would like you to consider this. the blood that flows in the vein of ex-Mazun is the same that flows in the veins of Mufaddal Maula, Burhanuddin Maula RA and Taher Saifuddin Maula RA (just reminding you, so that the next time you decide to abuse someone, you know which bloodline/lineage u are abusing)

Br. Zinger,

I totally agree with your message of not abusing KQ. but to respect him because of his lineage dosent go down too well with Islamic history. as you might recall even Abu Lahab was uncle of Prophet but is condemned by name in Quran.

[humanbeing]

but to respect him because of his lineage dosent go down too well with Islamic history. as you might recall even Abu Lahab was uncle of Prophet but is condemned by name in Quran.

My point here is, SKQ was son of STS – 51st Dai, Brother of 52nd Dai and appointed as Mazoon of 52nd Dai. He has been nurtured, educated and trained by two previous duaats in the royal family. Since decades, kothar promoted these royals to be up and above the commoners with conduct, character and blood. Not only the Dai, but the whole family moved around with air of superiority and infallibility with all the “ghaib-na-jaankar mojizas” and “bhanela” tags. And now we see blood relatives from same grandpa and social relatives in terms of marriage alliances are throwing brick and mud at each other like anyother petty family down the mohalla. Their curses, whining and abuses are upsetting to hilarious to see these oldies supposed to be all calm and wise by virtue of their age and divine connection, dance in disgust with rova-jevu-moo ! And the whole laanat party is made grand by mindless chanting and ranting abdes. SMS daawat is becoming an orchestra of weird kinds, seems like everything is orchestrated, NUSS-MAATAM-IBAADAT and LAANAT.

[Universaldad]

UD, for the record, im not a follower of ex-Mazun Maula.

But i would like you to consider this. the blood that flows in the vein of ex-Mazun is the same that flows in the veins of Mufaddal Maula, Burhanuddin Maula RA and Taher Saifuddin Maula RA (just reminding you, so that the next time you decide to abuse someone, you know which bloodline/lineage u are abusing)

Br. Zinger,

I totally agree with your message of not abusing KQ. but to respect him because of his lineage dosent go down too well with Islamic history. as you might recall even Abu Lahab was uncle of Prophet but is condemned by name in Quran.

Asad, thanks for pointing to the Abu Lahab example.

Zinger, Please take heed that Ex Mazun KQ is like Abu Lahab of this generation and a dushman of Dawat of Imam uz zaman. Please accept this and move on. Accept SMS TUS with all your heart as you know he is the waris and Nass of SMB TUS. SBM = SMS = STS. All three saheb are the same blood who are Dai of Imam uz Zaman.

For KQ and his followers we pray for Allah's curse and lanaat.

[asad]

but to respect him because of his lineage dosent go down too well with Islamic history. as you might recall even Abu Lahab was uncle of Prophet but is condemned by name in Quran.

My point here is, SKQ was son of STS – 51st Dai, Brother of 52nd Dai and appointed as Mazoon of 52nd Dai. He has been nurtured, educated and trained by two previous duaats in the royal family. Since decades, kothar promoted these royals to be up and above the commoners with conduct, character and blood. Not only the Dai, but the whole family moved around with air of superiority and infallibility with all the “ghaib-na-jaankar mojizas” and “bhanela” tags. And now we see blood relatives from same grandpa and social relatives in terms of marriage alliances are throwing brick and mud at each other like anyother petty family down the mohalla. Their curses, whining and abuses are upsetting to hilarious to see these oldies supposed to be all calm and wise by virtue of their age and divine connection, dance in disgust with rova-jevu-moo ! And the whole laanat party is made grand by mindless chanting and ranting abdes. SMS daawat is becoming an orchestra of weird kinds, seems like everything is orchestrated, NUSS-MAATAM-IBAADAT and LAANAT.

Wisdom and courage sometimes skips a generation, in Qasre mawali's case even knowledge skipped. SMB didnt produce a singe kid who can be a role model in any way for the community, all of them are dumb, uneducated, rich spoilt brats. Whereas in case of STS almost all his sons were good in there own. and than we had YN who orchestrated all this acts on gullible abdes, After STS He was the mastermind behind whatever ill you see today in the community. He was the brain behind SMB otherwise SMB was too docile whom people had not even heard when STS was alive.

KQ is quite knowledgeable and the degrees of his kids are an eyesore for Qasre Mawalis as they cant compete them so the best they can come up is to throw muck which exposes them like never before. Every time they say Lanat one more Abde gets a doubt, more they say lanat more abdes turn away.