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[momeenbhai]

few kids are really mannerless and even their parents do nothing to teach them adab of masjid and to keep quite while namaz.

many times people do lose control and do what their parents should have been doing. not a big deal. happens all the time in all masajids.

[zinger]

Reprimanding kids verbally, shouting at them even, is one thing. i have done that too

This however, is physical assault

You might be ok if someone did that to your kid but i'll be damned if i let anyone touch my son

[objectiveobserver53]

his answer was that whatever the reason, manhandling a child is not warranted. i completely agree with him, i am in no way defending this old man

So leave it at that. Do not attempt to defend the old man in a sideways manner..... there is nothing that can justify this kind of behavior. Words are better used to communicate than one’s hands... Why is it that we think that the lessons we teach our kids do not apply to adults? it would be one thing to intervene physically to stop a child from harming another or himself and stop at that. But chasing him into the masjid and beating him up cannot be attributed to anything other than the man having a bad day and taking it out on the kid. It was Shehrullah so he may just have been hangry. He should have learned to control that in all these years of fasting....

[objectiveobserver53]

few kids are really mannerless and even their parents do nothing to teach them adab of masjid and to keep quite while namaz.

many times people do lose control and do what their parents should have been doing. not a big deal. happens all the time in all masajids.

Yes I can expect a douchebag like you to defend this. You are probably OK with wife beating as well.....I have no idea what kinds of masjids you attend! Beating up a child in a masjid does not qualify as adab of masjid.

[zinger]

his answer was that whatever the reason, manhandling a child is not warranted. i completely agree with him, i am in no way defending this old man

So leave it at that. Do not attempt to defend the old man in a sideways manner..... there is nothing that can justify this kind of behavior. Words are better used to communicate than one’s hands... Why is it that we think that the lessons we teach our kids do not apply to adults? it would be one thing to intervene physically to stop a child from harming another or himself and stop at that. But chasing him into the masjid and beating him up cannot be attributed to anything other than the man having a bad day and taking it out on the kid. It was Shehrullah so he may just have been hangry. He should have learned to control that in all these years of fasting....

OO53, i think you misunderstood my post..
i have repeated myself twice

"his answer was that whatever the reason, manhandling a child is not warranted. i completely agree with him, i am in no way defending this old man"

and then again

"Reprimanding kids verbally, shouting at them even, is one thing. i have done that too
This however, is physical assault"

But yes, i accept your point, my post could have been interpreted to seem like i was defending the old fart too, which i was not

[think_for_yourself]

few kids are really mannerless and even their parents do nothing to teach them adab of masjid and to keep quite while namaz.

many times people do lose control and do what their parents should have been doing. not a big deal. happens all the time in all masajids.

Non-Momeenbhai, it is not surprising that you attend the kinds of masjids where this kind of behavior is "not a big deal" and "happens all the time." Your behavior here is testament to that. Bohras with any pride should set a higher standard for themselves. Even if they are on the Mufaddali side. All the kids watching and especially the one getting beaten up will walk away thinking it is OK for a big guy to beat up someone smaller into submission. That's neither ethical nor lawful. This is not the kind of environment in which one can pray to one's maker.

[SBM]

Welcome back Sr."think for yourself" after a long Hiatus.

[SBM]

Taking a cue from the Majlis and Bayan when Mullas say that Imam Hassan and Imam Hussain used to ride on Prophet Mohammed SAW when he is to be in Sujood and Prophet used to delay his Sujood for his grand children, I wonder how this Mornon Aamil would act if that act was repeated here\
DISCLAIMAR: In no way I am comparing this idiotic clan of SMS to Prophet and his Progeny but pointing to their Hypocrisy on their Waez and one should not be surprised as SMS will put a Rumaal between his hand and a Momin doing Salaam but have no problem Hugging a half naked Baba Ramdev

[zinger]

few kids are really mannerless and even their parents do nothing to teach them adab of masjid and to keep quite while namaz.

many times people do lose control and do what their parents should have been doing. not a big deal. happens all the time in all masajids.

Non-Momeenbhai, it is not surprising that you attend the kinds of masjids where this kind of behavior is "not a big deal" and "happens all the time." Your behavior here is testament to that. Bohras with any pride should set a higher standard for themselves. Even if they are on the Mufaddali side. All the kids watching and especially the one getting beaten up will walk away thinking it is OK for a big guy to beat up someone smaller into submission. That's neither ethical nor lawful. This is not the kind of environment in which one can pray to one's maker.

TFY, let us be clear on one thing.

This cretin, the virus, is not a Bohra, leave alone a Shia.
I am pretty darn sure that he is a Sunni, posing as a Shia and DB

[zinger]

Taking a cue from the Majlis and Bayan when Mullas say that Imam Hassan and Imam Hussain used to ride on Prophet Mohammed SAW when he is to be in Sujood and Prophet used to delay his Sujood for his grand children, I wonder how this Mornon Aamil would act if that act was repeated here\
DISCLAIMAR: In no way I am comparing this idiotic clan of SMS to Prophet and his Progeny but pointing to their Hypocrisy on their Waez and one should not be surprised as SMS will put a Rumaal between his hand and a Momin doing Salaam but have no problem Hugging a half naked Baba Ramdev

SBM bhai,

While you have, no doubt, put a disclaimer to your post, i still feel that the analogy is in very poor taste.

You cannot compare an apple to a pineapple.

Also, you said "this Moron Aamil"
Am assuming that was a typo, unless you are saying that the old fart was an Aamil, which he is not

[guy_sam2005]

few kids are really mannerless and even their parents do nothing to teach them adab of masjid and to keep quite while namaz.

many times people do lose control and do what their parents should have been doing. not a big deal. happens all the time in all masajids.

dont misguide-It does not happen anywhere and infact parents too shldnt hit their children.Moula(tus)has said many times bacchao ne maro na.This guy should be punished and condemned.Even parents do not have right to hit children like this.and it doesnt happen in any masjids this is just 1 off case of high handedness by this guy and he should be punished

[guy_sam2005]

Taking a cue from the Majlis and Bayan when Mullas say that Imam Hassan and Imam Hussain used to ride on Prophet Mohammed SAW when he is to be in Sujood and Prophet used to delay his Sujood for his grand children, I wonder how this Mornon Aamil would act if that act was repeated here\
DISCLAIMAR: In no way I am comparing this idiotic clan of SMS to Prophet and his Progeny but pointing to their Hypocrisy on their Waez and one should not be surprised as SMS will put a Rumaal between his hand and a Momin doing Salaam but have no problem Hugging a half naked Baba Ramdev

Because of roadside language of this guy..most other leave forums .and ofcourse half truths.thers norumaal while doing salaam.when was last time u did salaam and there was a rumaal?

[zinger]

few kids are really mannerless and even their parents do nothing to teach them adab of masjid and to keep quite while namaz.

many times people do lose control and do what their parents should have been doing. not a big deal. happens all the time in all masajids.

dont misguide-It does not happen anywhere and infact parents too shldnt hit their children.Moula(tus)has said many times bacchao ne maro na.This guy should be punished and condemned.Even parents do not have right to hit children like this.and it doesnt happen in any masjids this is just 1 off case of high handedness by this guy and he should be punished

LIKED

[zinger]

Taking a cue from the Majlis and Bayan when Mullas say that Imam Hassan and Imam Hussain used to ride on Prophet Mohammed SAW when he is to be in Sujood and Prophet used to delay his Sujood for his grand children, I wonder how this Mornon Aamil would act if that act was repeated here\
DISCLAIMAR: In no way I am comparing this idiotic clan of SMS to Prophet and his Progeny but pointing to their Hypocrisy on their Waez and one should not be surprised as SMS will put a Rumaal between his hand and a Momin doing Salaam but have no problem Hugging a half naked Baba Ramdev

Because of roadside language of this guy..most other leave forums .and ofcourse half truths.thers norumaal while doing salaam.when was last time u did salaam and there was a rumaal?

Ok chalo, accepted. there is no rumal now but until a couple of years ago or more, no Bohra Mumin could touch Mufaddal Maula's hand without a rumaal, leave alone hug him but a hairy nanga Baba Ramdev could nicely hug him???

Mind you, i have nothing personal against Baba Ramdev. He has, in my opinion, done a great service to the country by popularising yoga and has created some really wonderful swadesi products to combat the Unilevers and P&Gs and the CPs of the world. The "hairy nanga" should be taken as a joke only

Please do, do by all means, show me a pic of any DB hugging Mufaddal Maula. And no, im not referring to someone who may have done some incredibly obscene salam, im talking of a regular Mumin.

[objectiveobserver53]

dont misguide-It does not happen anywhere and infact parents too shldnt hit their children.Moula(tus)has said many times bacchao ne maro na.This guy should be punished and condemned.Even parents do not have right to hit children like this.and it doesnt happen in any masjids this is just 1 off case of high handedness by this guy and he should be punished

Everything in the Mufaddali world is about punishment... why Is Mr. Mufaddal’s message so ineffective and muddled that his followers are never sure how to behave and they end up licking spoons like animals in his gatherings and breaking toilets with hammers or in this case beating up a child in a gathering of his followers where everyone is just sitting there and watching! It looks like none of those who have heard Mr. Mufaddal’s message believed in it because no one thought to intervene!

[think_for_yourself]

dont misguide-It does not happen anywhere and infact parents too shldnt hit their children.Moula(tus)has said many times bacchao ne maro na.This guy should be punished and condemned.Even parents do not have right to hit children like this.and it doesnt happen in any masjids this is just 1 off case of high handedness by this guy and he should be punished

Everything in the Mufaddali world is about punishment... why Is Mr. Mufaddal’s message so ineffective and muddled that his followers are never sure how to behave and they end up licking spoons like animals in his gatherings and breaking toilets with hammers or in this case beating up a child in a gathering of his followers where everyone is just sitting there and watching! It looks like none of those who have heard Mr. Mufaddal’s message believed in it because no one thought to intervene!

It appears “Moula(tus)’s” message has fallen on deaf ears. The apathy of the onlookers is as shocking as the violence of the old man. Could it be because his message is always muddled and retracted or as the mufaddalies like to call it, “clarified.” Examples
1) Don’t do khafz, hubbul watan minal imaan..blah blah and then a few days later...MUST DO Khafz. Discreetly for girls...
2) girls should do home science...and then in the press.. there are many highly qualified women among Bohras (no thanks to you MS!)
3) lick the spoons and plates, defend the action in online forums and soon...don’t lick...
..... one can go on.....
There is no divine guidance in the messages....hence the muddled nature of them and hence the widespread confusion and lack of clarity in the actions of the followers.

[zinger]

dont misguide-It does not happen anywhere and infact parents too shldnt hit their children.Moula(tus)has said many times bacchao ne maro na.This guy should be punished and condemned.Even parents do not have right to hit children like this.and it doesnt happen in any masjids this is just 1 off case of high handedness by this guy and he should be punished

Everything in the Mufaddali world is about punishment... why Is Mr. Mufaddal’s message so ineffective and muddled that his followers are never sure how to behave and they end up licking spoons like animals in his gatherings and breaking toilets with hammers or in this case beating up a child in a gathering of his followers where everyone is just sitting there and watching! It looks like none of those who have heard Mr. Mufaddal’s message believed in it because no one thought to intervene!

OO53
methinks that you are being a bit too harsh on Guy_sam2005

i was once just like him, rushing to defend whatever Mufaddal Maula would say or do, but over time, i realised the error of my way.

Atleast Guy_sam2005 is accepting that what has happened is wrong and the old man should be punished, where perhaps, in the past, he (and i too) might have rushed to defend the old man, citing some bullshit reason or the other

as for why no one intervened, your guess is as good as mine

[objectiveobserver53]

as for why no one intervened....your guess...

My guess is utter confusion among followers....no clarity and conviction in messages coming from above...if you have Badri Lacewala as your closest aide, you cannot really preach anything good with a straight face and nor can you expect your followers to believe.

[zinger]

as for why no one intervened....your guess...

My guess is utter confusion among followers....no clarity and conviction in messages coming from above...if you have Badri Lacewala as your closest aide, you cannot really preach anything good with a straight face and nor can you expect your followers to believe.

My guess is that either no one really gave a shit, cause it wasnt their kid OR nobody wanted to cross paths with this old man (assuming that he has some sort of hold over the jamat)

Either which ways, it was shameful that no one got up to intervene, although one short bhai did (although it seems like he was telling the kid to let it go, again probably cause the oldie is somewhat powerful in the jamat). But, i must say that the kid showed a lot of courage. at one point of time, he got up immediately after being pushed down and continued defending himself

[objectiveobserver53]

My guess is utter confusion among followers....no clarity and conviction in messages coming from above...if you have Badri Lacewala as your closest aide, you cannot really preach anything good with a straight face and nor can you expect your followers to believe.

My guess is that either no one really gave a shit, cause it wasnt their kid OR nobody wanted to cross paths with this old man (assuming that he has some sort of hold over the jamat)

Either which ways, it was shameful that no one got up to intervene, although one short bhai did (although it seems like he was telling the kid to let it go, again probably cause the oldie is somewhat powerful in the jamat). But, i must say that the kid showed a lot of courage. at one point of time, he got up immediately after being pushed down and continued defending himself

And what sort of leadership is creating jamaats like this? Your attempts to exonerate the leadership(or lack of) are pretty remarkable.

[Biradar]

few kids are really mannerless and even their parents do nothing to teach them adab of masjid and to keep quite while namaz.

many times people do lose control and do what their parents should have been doing. not a big deal. happens all the time in all masajids.

Yes I can expect a douchebag like you to defend this. You are probably OK with wife beating as well.....I have no idea what kinds of masjids you attend! Beating up a child in a masjid does not qualify as adab of masjid.

The resident gutter scum who goes under dozens of IDs here is a nasty, rude and thuggish buffoon. So one must not expect anything else from him.

However, to those like zinger et al. Once, SMB was in Pune and there was an exam of children going on. One child made a mistake in reciting something in front of SMB (one can imagine the stress) and the child's teacher yelled at him. No physical touching, just yelled at him. SMB got very upset. He told the mullah not to shout at the boy and in fact was very angry at him. SMB said no one should shout at children, leave alone hit them. No yelling. No shouting. He instead said that teach them with love. Explain to them with politeness and love. He said to the mullah do not even raise your voice. He said that consider children as being under his own personal care.

So here we have a mullah and some folks defending this baboon thug hitting a child in a masjid. I guess they never took anything SMB took to heart. These baboons think having a long beard a big belly is all that is needed to be a good Muslim. Sad, really. The first step on the Straight Path is to become a human. Beards and bellies are irrelevant.

[guy_sam2005]

dont misguide-It does not happen anywhere and infact parents too shldnt hit their children.Moula(tus)has said many times bacchao ne maro na.This guy should be punished and condemned.Even parents do not have right to hit children like this.and it doesnt happen in any masjids this is just 1 off case of high handedness by this guy and he should be punished

Everything in the Mufaddali world is about punishment... why Is Mr. Mufaddal’s message so ineffective and muddled that his followers are never sure how to behave and they end up licking spoons like animals in his gatherings and breaking toilets with hammers or in this case beating up a child in a gathering of his followers where everyone is just sitting there and watching! It looks like none of those who have heard Mr. Mufaddal’s message believed in it because no one thought to intervene!

you have no idea of whats happening inside and whatever explanation ill give you will argue on them based on half knowledge half facts and hearsay......you can see 1 off negative happenings but u willfully ignore all 100's of good and progressive things happening.That is cause you have a agenda of spreading false propoganda

[guy_sam2005]

Everything in the Mufaddali world is about punishment... why Is Mr. Mufaddal’s message so ineffective and muddled that his followers are never sure how to behave and they end up licking spoons like animals in his gatherings and breaking toilets with hammers or in this case beating up a child in a gathering of his followers where everyone is just sitting there and watching! It looks like none of those who have heard Mr. Mufaddal’s message believed in it because no one thought to intervene!

OO53
methinks that you are being a bit too harsh on Guy_sam2005

i was once just like him, rushing to defend whatever Mufaddal Maula would say or do, but over time, i realised the error of my way.

Atleast Guy_sam2005 is accepting that what has happened is wrong and the old man should be punished, where perhaps, in the past, he (and i too) might have rushed to defend the old man, citing some bullshit reason or the other

as for why no one intervened, your guess is as good as mine

Moula(tus) doesnt need me to defend.and i am nothing like you.We are not aware of what action was taken against him i am sure action must have been taken.

[guy_sam2005]

Because of roadside language of this guy..most other leave forums .and ofcourse half truths.thers norumaal while doing salaam.when was last time u did salaam and there was a rumaal?

Are you a bohra?Do you know the system and rituals?rumaal is used during talaqqi not during salaam and it has been like that since as long as i knew.If a guest hugs u would u push him away?ill not argue on this.Use your commonsense

[allbird]

few kids are really mannerless and even their parents do nothing to teach them adab of masjid and to keep quite while namaz.

many times people do lose control and do what their parents should have been doing. not a big deal. happens all the time in all masajids.
[/quote


Still grownups like mullahs should know the Addab of masjid -- Rule #1 treat everyone equal
Rule # 2: Never raise your voice in Masjid
.....

Lose control -- is not an excuse to beat up a child.

No matter what the reason is " NO RAISING HAND'S on defenseless kids. And this happens in every BOHRA masjid WHY ??

Mullah's have too much power.

[objectiveobserver53]

Everything in the Mufaddali world is about punishment... why Is Mr. Mufaddal’s message so ineffective and muddled that his followers are never sure how to behave and they end up licking spoons like animals in his gatherings and breaking toilets with hammers or in this case beating up a child in a gathering of his followers where everyone is just sitting there and watching! It looks like none of those who have heard Mr. Mufaddal’s message believed in it because no one thought to intervene!

you have no idea of whats happening inside and whatever explanation ill give you will argue on them based on half knowledge half facts and hearsay......you can see 1 off negative happenings but u willfully ignore all 100's of good and progressive things happening.That is cause you have a agenda of spreading false propoganda

Indeed you cannot argue because you have no arguments to offer. I do not do propaganda, that is what you receive in the masjid. Opinions touted as facts for the glorification of one individual. All I did was comment on a video of an old and angry man beating up a young kid in a masjid led your boss who has not been able to guide his people to behave properly or come to the defense of a defenseless kid. There is no hearsay. There is graphical proof of what happened.
You claimed that your “moula” guides people otherwise and that the man was acting against your moula’s Guidance. I simply pointed out that not only was the man acting against your moula’s Guidance, the entire masjid was because no one was intervening! So it leads me to the conclusion that no one believes your moula’s Message because it is muddled. Like all his other messages that has led people to behave in a bizarre fashion or left them confused. These are not one off negative occurances. There is a pattern. I believe TFY also pointed out the history of muddled messages and consequent confusion.

[zinger]

My guess is that either no one really gave a shit, cause it wasnt their kid OR nobody wanted to cross paths with this old man (assuming that he has some sort of hold over the jamat)

Either which ways, it was shameful that no one got up to intervene, although one short bhai did (although it seems like he was telling the kid to let it go, again probably cause the oldie is somewhat powerful in the jamat). But, i must say that the kid showed a lot of courage. at one point of time, he got up immediately after being pushed down and continued defending himself

And what sort of leadership is creating jamaats like this? Your attempts to exonerate the leadership(or lack of) are pretty remarkable.

OO53, i dont know why you are selectively misunderstanding my posts time and again. i somehow thought you had a little more thinking ability than that. i had to correct you in the earlier one too. and let me correct you here once again

1. I am not here to exonerate the leadership of any jamat. Truth be told, i am an extremely limited participant in my own jamat now too
2. i am only guessing, i repeat, guessing that the old fart was probably some high-powered dude. Again, we dont know what happened after. Was he reprimanded, was he scolded, was he kicked out etc. The only reason im guessing, and i repeat, im guessing, is because the discussion was pure speculation about what happened

for the last time now, i have distanced myself from the Mufaddal Maula camp for some time now. i am surprised you are unable to read between the lines of my post

[zinger]

OO53
methinks that you are being a bit too harsh on Guy_sam2005

i was once just like him, rushing to defend whatever Mufaddal Maula would say or do, but over time, i realised the error of my way.

Atleast Guy_sam2005 is accepting that what has happened is wrong and the old man should be punished, where perhaps, in the past, he (and i too) might have rushed to defend the old man, citing some bullshit reason or the other

as for why no one intervened, your guess is as good as mine

Moula(tus) doesnt need me to defend.and i am nothing like you.We are not aware of what action was taken against him i am sure action must have been taken.

Friend Guy Sam, the unfortunate truth is that you too have misunderstood my post. read again. i never said defend Maula, i said defend the old man.
i am glad you are nothing like me. too many of me is never a good thing

I hope action has been taken too, if not by the jamat, then by the kids parents atleast

[zinger]

Are you a bohra?Do you know the system and rituals?rumaal is used during talaqqi not during salaam and it has been like that since as long as i knew.If a guest hugs u would u push him away?ill not argue on this.Use your commonsense

Yes Guy Sam, i am very much a Bohra.

I may not all the systems and rituals, but yes, i know this, i have never seen any Dawoodi Bohra, in my 43 years of my life, been allowed to hug the dai the way Modi or Ramdev Baba or any other non-DB Muslims have done, these past few years

yes, let us not argue on this, it is a dead end topic

[objectiveobserver53]

I may not all the systems and rituals, but yes, i know this, i have never seen any Dawoodi Bohra, in my 43 years of my life, been allowed to hug the dai the way Modi or Ramdev Baba or any other non-DB Muslims have done, these past few years

yes, let us not argue on this, it is a dead end topic

Zinger let’s get this straight, MS is not a Dai, so any old Bhangi (as Mufaddalis like to say) can come and hug him.

Technically, I don’t think there is anything preventing a Dai from hugging his followers. In fact many mumineen do give bossa to THE dai (although a full frontal full-body splatter is uniquely mufaddali ) I think with Mufaddal it is a matter of will and perception. Bohras are nothing more than a source of funds for his lavish homes.