GULF-PIG-TB JAWAB DO

[Arif]

Don't evade the question.

I have asked a question which is "How about writing an open letter to Syedna with your actual details." Sorry I forgot to put a ? in the end. I am sooo Sorry.

It seems that you have no respect for the participants on this forum,

Respect is mutual.. How about you making a first move?

[Arif]

Nimble, huh Aarif? Thank you - that's a compliment!

Oh you are most welcome sir. See how decent I am.

[tahir]

Originally posted by Aarif:
If that would have been the case then members of Husain's army would have been hiding behind fake IDs and cursing Yazid all the time while in reality going and dining and wining with him every other day as you do. Now just think what Islam would have been today if Husain's army would have had people like you.

So again one cannot bring reforms just by asking the same monotonous questions for years and years.

You reek ingnorance about the reform movement that begin in 1970s. This board started in 2000 just as a little extension of the activities that had been going on openly since 3 decades. Now its your homework to find out what has Syedna done of innumberable requests and petitions made to him openly.

Btw you sound as if you know me personally since birth (and that I haven't yet sent an open letter to syedna).

[Arif]

You reek ingnorance about the reform movement that begin in 1970s

I have read all the stuff on this site. The Chanda Bhai gulla case etc.

So believe me I have done my homework. But just brooding on the past does not make any sense. I am more interested in knowing the future plans. Not just in terms of throwing over the current Syedna but also, who will replace him etc. Since, I have read that reformists are not against the post of Dai they will definitely need a new dai to lead the community. Also, every movement has a lifespan. What is the life span of this reform movement which is only focusing on a meagre 1.2 million people. The reformist started 35 years back. How many more years is it going to take to reform the bohras. Hope not another 1400 years..

Also, I am very keen on knowing how the new office bearers will run the administration which will be free from corruption and just in most of the aspects if not all.

and that I haven't yet sent an open letter to syedna

If you have then please post a copy of it on this forum. I would like to see that letter.

[Al Zulfiqar]

Originally posted by Aarif:

Bohra dawat has rached this woeful state just because people did't ask questions.

I agree with you on that but not completely. Yes people definitely need to ask questions. But just asking questions make no sense. Look at our Indian goverment. We have the majority and opposition. The opposition asks lot of questions, throw paper missiles in the parliament etc. But that has not solved any problems like corruption,terrorism,poverty etc. So my friend actions speak louder then words.

So again one cannot bring reforms just by asking the same monotonous questions for years and years.

BTW: How about writing an open letter to Syedna with your actual details. You can put all your excellent questions in that letter. How about having some real action instead of bhashan??

aarif, pardon me if i sound slightly patronising, but as other members here have mentioned, u really need to be better informed before making statements as above.

do u know how many times reformists have tried, via letters, requests for meetings, through the open media, writing letters to the newspapers, press conferences etc. to have a direct meeting with the syedna and his key decision makers to discuss the issues which adversely affect our community today? to attempt to make him understand what the true well-wishers of our community desire?

my father was in a privileged position where he had many personal one-on-one discussions with the ex-syedna at the time he was annexing all jamaat properties worldwide. the discussions always veered towards religion as the syedna would bring in our bohra beliefs as the basis for his (false) absolute power. my dad was learned enough to counter him strongly on most such issues. but what was the end result? when the debates led nowhere, my dad and his fellow jamaat committe members were told in no unequivocal terms that they either agree and secede or else...!!!

not only that, it was further made abundantly clear to them that they would incur his displeasure and subsequently serious consequences would follow against them personally. it was nothing but the worst kind of intimidation and blackmail. and now remember
that my father was but a small cog in the wheel.

fearless reformists such as sir adamjee peerbhoy, veer nomanbhai contractor and many others who tried most sincerely and with the best of intentions to meet and reasonably discuss with the syedna were maligned and publicly reviled, they were physically attacked and laanats were said against them. spreading terror, threatening, intimidation, blackmail, violence and finally baraat are the weapons in the kothar's arsenal. they have not stopped even at murder through their henchmen in the past.

and you say that why doesnt anyone write letters??!! ignorance is no excuse for making wild and uninformed statements and indirectly insulting the enormous hard work and sacrifices the reformists have made in the past several decades.

since u are so fired up, let me ask u what attempts have YOU made to apprise the kothar's establishment of all the issues? have u made even one attempt at meeting yr local amil and talking frankly with him? let us know his reaction please, if u do so.

if you can do even 1% of what the brave and heroic reformists have been doing, then come back and talk. i suggest you visit the PDB office in mumbai and meet the office bearers there or Mr. Asgharbhai Engineer himself to get a better idea about the facts if you are serious instead of doing bhaashans yrself.

[SBM]

Aarif
Before you ask all these questions, and we all know you have 2 Masters degrees, can you please also tell us if you have served or are serving on any Non Profit organizations anywhere and if you are, what has been their missions and whether they have achieved their goals so far:
The point is, it takes a very long period for reforms to take place specially when a corrupted establishment keeps on putting road blocks. Reform can only take place from within. Pakistan has been free for more than 50 years and still it is regarded as a failed state. Palestinians are fighting for their rights for past 50 years and have not achieved. UNLESS YOU CAN PROVIDE WITH A MAGIC WAND it takes time. There are subtle changes in Syedna's establishment, you can see Kotharis visiting this message board and cursing us all the time.

[SBM]

Let me get back to original post which I started
"JAWAB DO JAWAB DO
GULFI BI JAWAB DO
JAWAB DO JAWAB DO
PIG JI JAWAB DO
Africawlla wapas aao
Aarif ji jawab do
RAZA LO RAZA LO
KOTHAR SE RAZA LO
BUT JALDI SE JAWAB DO"

[Al Zulfiqar]

"There are subtle changes in Syedna's establishment, you can see Kotharis visiting this message board and cursing us all the time."

also look at the recent tactic of maalumat restricting access, even that is a fallout of the reformists stinging them!

[SBM]

Aarif FYI only
http://www.pucl.org/from-archives/Relig ... /bohra.htm

http://www.hindu.com/fline/fl1705/17051030.htm

[Safiuddin]

Aarif,

I have rankled you and rattled your chain. I'm Sorry.

[Danish]

Originally posted by Al Zulfiqar:

Originally posted by Danish:
danish, u dont seriously expect me to spoon-feed u now, do u? if u are interested, get off yr rocking chair and go search for the facts as i did. sitting back and expecting the proof to be brought to u so that u will decide, while the kothar is screwing u left and right, does that make any sense?

Why not? When you make lavish unprecedented and insubordinated claims, you better be prepaired to back it up with substantial evidence when confronted, else no need to beat around the bush and make wanton mockery of the matter. I personally have no interest whatsoever, however, would like to present them to others whom I've known.

why dont u initiate contacts with the people i have mentioned in london if u are really as serious as u claim to be? or be bold enough to go and question yr amil. his reaction will be yr answer.

I don't live in London and am only half-heartedly in contact with only a few bohries other than my immediate family members who are ignorant about such claims. As a matter of fact, I left the sickness of Diamul Islam altogether years ago. You can either provide a link or complete contacts of possessor(s) of such claims and make use of my email (lillychilly2000@yahoo.com) without ringing bells around here for exposure. Would appreciate it if you will.

[Al Zulfiqar]

danish,

if u are no longer a practising bohra and have no interest in whatever people write here, then why bother trying to ascertain the facts?

and what is this lame excuse of wanting to inform yr ignorant relatives? if they are ignorant and wish to exist in a cocoon, then have u taken it upon yrself to educate them based on what others write and for which you have to be provided with proof?

yr tone and approach are both laughable and arrogant. do u think i write here for u and u alone that u keep thrusting yr email here under my nose and want to prevent me from letting the world know at large the extreme corruption and moral degradation of the kothar?

whether u believe it or not is immaterial to me and i couldnt care less for yr opinion. those in the know and who are familiar with the ways of the kothar and its shenanigans, do understand from the realities around them and can readily verify the veracity of statements.

my belief is that u are also one of the newer types of kotharis here on this forum, hanging around like a wolf in sheeps clothing...trying to fool us.

[tahir]

Aarif,

Also, every movement has a lifespan. What is the life span of this reform movement which is only focusing on a meagre 1.2 million people. The reformist started 35 years back. How many more years is it going to take to reform the bohras. Hope not another 1400 years..

The bohra dawat too has its life span. It started as a reform movement in prevailing Islam and look what it has become! The rot started with the 46th Dai and the 51st Dai danced a naked dance on the coffin of dawat. You don't ask the Hen to stop warming the egg because the chicken will die some day. Do you?

Also, I am very keen on knowing how the new office bearers will run the administration which will be free from corruption and just in most of the aspects if not all.

How do they check corruption in democracies like US? In dictatorships like dawat, the corruption becomes tyrrany.

[africawalla]

Tahir seems to be dushman of all the Bohras, he cannot stand the fact that there are a few Bohras who are doing well in different fields
I am a Bohra and proud to be called one
There are Bohras in the Mainstream and progressives who are doing very well in business and in professions

Tahir wake up mate and meet the bohras around you who are happy and proud

[tahir]

Success comes through personal qualities and not communal. Don't be a dushman of humanity by talking in terms of bohras and non bohras.

I am glad that bohra masses don't think like insulated kotharis like you. That is why some of them managed to make it big.

I wish you a happy and less sullen new year.

[SBM]

GULFI JI NE JAWAB DIYA FINALLY JAWAB DIYA
****************************************************
"yes, Oma.B.bharti, I just got SMS, I have checked all the news sources I could, I didn't find anything so that was fake news, nowadays this elec media seems to be a weapon a fake news
All these types of SMS are fake propaganda from people like you Oma.B.bharti, Z.Fakir etc. etc.

SO, NOW PLEASE DONT MAKE MORE FUN ON THIS MATTER IT IS REGRETTED. OK."
****************************************************
FINALLY

[africawalla]

Tahir, Bohras stick together as a communal grouping and thats how we do well, we have an identity and well respected around the world and is a very successful community

We help each other out.

[Danish]

Originally posted by Al Zulfiqar:
danish,

if u are no longer a practising bohra and have no interest in whatever people write here, then why bother trying to ascertain the facts?

and what is this lame excuse of wanting to inform yr ignorant relatives? if they are ignorant and wish to exist in a cocoon, then have u taken it upon yrself to educate them based on what others write and for which you have to be provided with proof?

yr tone and approach are both laughable and arrogant. do u think i write here for u and u alone that u keep thrusting yr email here under my nose and want to prevent me from letting the world know at large the extreme corruption and moral degradation of the kothar?

whether u believe it or not is immaterial to me and i couldnt care less for yr opinion. those in the know and who are familiar with the ways of the kothar and its shenanigans, do understand from the realities around them and can readily verify the veracity of statements.

my belief is that u are also one of the newer types of kotharis here on this forum, hanging around like a wolf in sheeps clothing...trying to fool us.

Zulfi, some of the concerns you've raised has already been stated earlier, hence no need to regurgitate, LOL. Your reponses seem to be digressing rather than enlightening and I find them quite condescending, agonistic and drum-beating. Your claims in regards to current and ex-Syedena and their pulpits certainly raises eyebrows of dire concerns and must give proper credance in evidence to counter justification for the same, for which I was specifically interested and only requested further information and you made a mess of it; perhaps my own miscalculations in barking at the wrong tree.

[accountability]

We help each other out.

An outlandish claim, grotesquely strange .

I don't know, how did you come to this conclusion.

Since last twenty or so years, our community has been transformed into a giant self centered entity with no heart and soul. Our kindness our humanity our dignity have all been mortgaged to one family's riches and well being. we have been forbidden to do charity, and take up any humane task without approval in the name of raza.

we have been dragged into this quagmire without an escape.

For your claim of helping out, may i cite a personal example. Two years ago, I sent some help to one of my relative in ramadan, i wanted them to enjoy eid like every one else. she was just widowed, having two married daughter and a college going son. What happened was, she had to use that money to clear her sabeel dues, as she was not allowed to do a majlis at her home, because of outstanding dues. so she thought it wise to clear the dues at the expense of her and her son's well being.

I actually got mad. I think I have mentioned it somewhere on this board. This is so much about your, " we help each other out".

You will not be able to cite one genuine example of philanthropy and kindness among so called mukhliseen. There may be individual examples, but i am pretty sure, they will be non mukhlis.

[Safiuddin]

Accountability it sounds as if you had a bad personal experience. No need to generalise that to everyone else. Many people I know, regardless of race, heritage, or religion, etc. commit daily acts of charity and goodness.

It's up to the recipients to decide whether to pay a tyrant religion or take care of one's family. I,like you, would have also been angry.

It's a sad affair the way these haraam-koth, daari dripping, gaali spouting jerks have exploited and twisted Islam and innocent people who have followed them.

I really do hope that i live long enough to see their anjaam.

[Al Zulfiqar]

""Your claims in regards to current and ex-Syedena and their pulpits certainly raises eyebrows of dire concerns and must give proper credance in evidence to counter justification for the same, for which I was specifically interested and only requested further information and you made a mess of it; perhaps my own miscalculations in barking at the wrong tree.""

your text above is a classic textbook example of bad english. it is tortured, it is twisted, it loses focus along the way, it is bombastic and poorly constructed, with bad syntax, bad grammar and pathetic punctuation. furthermore it is the work of a vainglorious personality with delusions of self-grandeur and pseudo-intellectual pretensions.

where did u learn it from? the kerala institute of marxist-leninist mumbo-jumbo or the peshawar academy of fine arts?

yr last sentence is the key to yr entire effort. yes, you have been barking and wrongly too. it seems that u are habituated to bark.

at the risk of regurgigating, LOL, may i please repeat that i give a rats ar*e about yr opinions? no one has forced you to believe or disbelieve, vice versa no one is impressed with yr altruistic motives in educating yr blind and ignorant family about the morality of yr divine syednas, least of all when u yrself have no interest in anything concerning bohras on yr own admission!!!

yr posts are so laughable that i will not qualify them the next time with a response. that will be a criminal waste of web space on this forum. as for yr email address, u know where to shove it...

[Danish]

I understand your megalomaniac, schizophrenic and libelous character well displayed and self inflicted. These are traits essentially found in religious godly bigots and are cherished for their classical magnate and oppressive nature. You are of the same part-n-parcel circumventing the bigger bubble in disguise.

<small>[ January 03, 2008, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: Admin ]</small>

[africawalla]

Danish, you have really got Zulfikar going wild

[Al Zulfiqar]

african shezaada,

a drowning man clutches at straws the way u are jumping at finding some support from this bombastic idiot. its more like, 'aav bhai harkha, apne bewe sarkha, and chor na bhai ghanti chor'..!

danish's posts are an english-loving keralite's delight.. makes me more amused than mad...!!

i am forwarding them to the harvard university's english language deptt. to include them in their studies of what rotten english looks like.

[Danish]

Originally posted by africawalla:
Danish, you have really got Zulfikar going wild

Watch him getting bewildered in the upcoming 'pur josh' event as seen here http://www.allaahuakbar.net/shiites/maatam.htm and getting all warped up in mourning upon my I-N-G-A-L-E-A-S-H. Better yet, watch this comedian mirroring his image: http://youtube.com/watch?v=uBplylx55Zc

[africawalla]

Zulfikar, I am my own person , I don't need to put my allegience to anyone, at least I dont have a point of view which is stuck ie against anything Kotharis or against Syedna, sometimes its better to have an open mind on issues otherwise you ignore the bad things happening within your own environment

[Arif]

Hey Guys! I m back.. I went for a short vacation. Happy new year to you all (both English and our Islamic) and also, as they say in Lisane-Daawat "Aap saglaa mumeneen ne pehli raat ni ghani ghani mubarakbaad".

BTW: 1) Kothar is corrupt.. Agreed
2) Reformits have tried to fight corruption in the past. Agreed
3) Several letters and arzis have been written and no replies from the office bearers. Agreed

However, my question still remains. Do reformists have a plan of action to achieve reforms? Criticizing Syedna and kothar only helps to release mental frustration. However, everybody still has to pay money every year whether you like it or not. Every day Kothar is coming up with new marketing gimmicks to make more money.

Tahir,

The bottom line is Daawat is in a more woeful state today then it was 35 years back. Its like the difference between Sachin Tendulkar and Sunil Gavaskar. People use to say about Gavaskar that he was very greedy and always played for money. But if you look at Tendulkar he is super greedy. The only thing is he can fake patriotism very well. He is a better actor then Gavaskar. Now that's the difference between ex-syedna and present Syedna. So again my question remains..

Oma-Bharti,

You are talking as if you are my personal auditor... What makes you think that I have not done anything in the past for the under-priviledged? Remember Islam is strongly against blowing your own trumphet when it comes to charity. So I would not like talk anymore on this. But for you it is good enough to know that I try to do whatever I can. And please leave my degrees aside. Degrees have nothing to do with charity otherwise the most educated man in the world would have been the most charitable man in the world. As of today the largest charitable move in history has been made by Bill Gates. And he is a harvard dropout.

[Arif]

AZ,

Your big post directed towards me again just shows your frustration. But it does not give me any idea of any bravery that you have shown against Kothar or Syedna.

if you can do even 1% of what the brave and heroic reformists have been doing,

I am more interested in knowing what you have done so far as you are the brave reformist and I am oh! so ignorent.

[Hozefa]

Totally agreed with Areef. In short Aaref has balls!! His Q should be resolved by the existing (in forum) rational thinkers.

[Gulf]

Originally posted by Hozefa:
Totally agreed with Areef. In short Aaref has balls!! His Q should be resolved by the existing (in forum) rational thinkers.

Hey funny!! if in short he has balls, so what? everybody have balls in their shorts, look at your friends RSS & co. evs and everyone of them have short and balls in short... what did they do for their community nothing but bullshit!