Anajmi asked me
"You then go on to explain the meaning of taqwa as piety - now is that the quran or is that your translation of the quran?"
It is my translation. You will be able to agree or disagree with it after you have learnt Arabic.
I have explained to you operationally what fear is. If you cannot accept that, then continue with your understanding. I am not forcing you or anybody else to accept my ideas.
Good luck. I do not wish to pursue this debate. Thanks for participation.
3 "Laanatti"
Re: 3 "Laanatti"
by porus
"Wahabi God is a God of vengeance" - more crap. There is no Wahabi God. God is what he says he is in the quran. So if he wants to fry the non-believers ass in hell, too bad, whether you like it or not, wahabi or not, that's how it's going to be.
There is no imagination over here, except yours, everything else is directly from the quran.
I am not sure where you get these ideas from. Allah is not just love, he is a lot of things, he is gafoor, rahman, rahmin and 96 others, although I am not sure which one of those 99 translated into love...ahh... translation so I guess I can scratch that out!!Allah is Love. Wahabi God is a God of vengeance. He only is a figment of Wahabi's imagination.
"Wahabi God is a God of vengeance" - more crap. There is no Wahabi God. God is what he says he is in the quran. So if he wants to fry the non-believers ass in hell, too bad, whether you like it or not, wahabi or not, that's how it's going to be.
There is no imagination over here, except yours, everything else is directly from the quran.
Re: 3 "Laanatti"
porus,
Believe me, there are a billion others who believe in Allah that I will seek for an understanding of the quran before I come to you.
Believe me, there are a billion others who believe in Allah that I will seek for an understanding of the quran before I come to you.
Re: 3 "Laanatti"
A few of them I have been quoting already.
Re: 3 "Laanatti"
porus,
Nobody over here is forcing anybody to believe in anything. All of us are giving our opinions, some of us are ignorant and quote others and some of us are ignorant and quote themselves. It is upto each one of us to seek out the truth for themselves.
Allah says in the quran (as translated by the authors mentioned)
001.006
YUSUFALI: Show us the straight way,
PICKTHAL: Show us the straight path,
SHAKIR: Keep us on the right path.
001.007
YUSUFALI: The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.
PICKTHAL: The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.
SHAKIR: The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.
We ask Allah to show us the way by asking him to show us the way of those that were bestowed his grace. Simply put, do not go about seeking the straight path on your own, start looking for those that have been bestowed with Allah's grace. Who are they, well, I am sure most of us over here are smart enough to figure that out.
Nobody over here is forcing anybody to believe in anything. All of us are giving our opinions, some of us are ignorant and quote others and some of us are ignorant and quote themselves. It is upto each one of us to seek out the truth for themselves.
Allah says in the quran (as translated by the authors mentioned)
001.006
YUSUFALI: Show us the straight way,
PICKTHAL: Show us the straight path,
SHAKIR: Keep us on the right path.
001.007
YUSUFALI: The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.
PICKTHAL: The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.
SHAKIR: The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.
We ask Allah to show us the way by asking him to show us the way of those that were bestowed his grace. Simply put, do not go about seeking the straight path on your own, start looking for those that have been bestowed with Allah's grace. Who are they, well, I am sure most of us over here are smart enough to figure that out.
Re: 3 "Laanatti"
Some other interesting ayahs of the quran (i.e. their translations)
022.049
YUSUFALI: Say: "O men! I am (sent) to you only to give a Clear Warning:
PICKTHAL: Say: O mankind! I am only a plain warner unto you.
SHAKIR: Say: O people! I am only a plain warner to you.
004.165
YUSUFALI: Messengers who gave good news as well as warning, that mankind, after (the coming) of the messengers, should have no plea against Allah: For Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
PICKTHAL: Messengers of good cheer and of warning, in order that mankind might have no argument against Allah after the messengers. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.
SHAKIR: (We sent) messengers as the givers of good news and as warners, so that people should not have a plea against Allah after the (coming of) messengers; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
006.048
YUSUFALI: We send the messengers only to give good news and to warn: so those who believe and mend (their lives),- upon them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
PICKTHAL: We send not the messengers save as bearers of good news and warners. Whoso believeth and doeth right, there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
SHAKIR: And We send not messengers but as announcers of good news and givers of warning, then whoever believes and acts aright, they shall have no fear, nor shall they grieve.
006.051
YUSUFALI: Give this warning to those in whose (hearts) is the fear that they will be brought (to judgment) before their Lord: except for Him they will have no protector nor intercessor: that they may guard (against evil).
PICKTHAL: Warn hereby those who fear (because they know) that they will be gathered unto their Lord, for whom there is no protecting ally nor intercessor beside Him, that they may ward off (evil).
SHAKIR: And warn with it those who fear that they shall be gathered to their Lord-- there is no guardian for them, nor any intercessor besides Him-- that they may guard (against evil).
028.046
YUSUFALI: Nor wast thou at the side of (the Mountain of) Tur when we called (to Moses). Yet (art thou sent) as Mercy from thy Lord, to give warning to a people to whom no warner had come before thee: in order that they may receive admonition.
PICKTHAL: And thou was not beside the Mount when We did call; but (the knowledge of it is) a mercy from thy Lord that thou mayst warn a folk unto whom no warner came before thee, that haply they may give heed.
SHAKIR: And you were not on this side of the mountain when We called, but a mercy from your Lord that you may warn a people to whom no warner came before you, that they may be mindful.
034.028
YUSUFALI: We have not sent thee but as a universal (Messenger) to men, giving them glad tidings, and warning them (against sin), but most men understand not.
PICKTHAL: And We have not sent thee (O Muhammad) save as a bringer of good tidings and a warner unto all mankind; but most of mankind know not.
SHAKIR: And We have not sent you but to all the men as a bearer of good news and as a warner, but most men do not know.
Warning - An intimation, threat, or sign of impending danger or evil. 2a. Advice to beware. b. Counsel to desist from a specified undesirable course of action. 3. A cautionary or deterrent example. 4. Something, such as a signal, that warns.
Warning to be afraid of the consequences or fear the consequences and do what is right and not that which is wrong.
022.049
YUSUFALI: Say: "O men! I am (sent) to you only to give a Clear Warning:
PICKTHAL: Say: O mankind! I am only a plain warner unto you.
SHAKIR: Say: O people! I am only a plain warner to you.
004.165
YUSUFALI: Messengers who gave good news as well as warning, that mankind, after (the coming) of the messengers, should have no plea against Allah: For Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
PICKTHAL: Messengers of good cheer and of warning, in order that mankind might have no argument against Allah after the messengers. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.
SHAKIR: (We sent) messengers as the givers of good news and as warners, so that people should not have a plea against Allah after the (coming of) messengers; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
006.048
YUSUFALI: We send the messengers only to give good news and to warn: so those who believe and mend (their lives),- upon them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
PICKTHAL: We send not the messengers save as bearers of good news and warners. Whoso believeth and doeth right, there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
SHAKIR: And We send not messengers but as announcers of good news and givers of warning, then whoever believes and acts aright, they shall have no fear, nor shall they grieve.
006.051
YUSUFALI: Give this warning to those in whose (hearts) is the fear that they will be brought (to judgment) before their Lord: except for Him they will have no protector nor intercessor: that they may guard (against evil).
PICKTHAL: Warn hereby those who fear (because they know) that they will be gathered unto their Lord, for whom there is no protecting ally nor intercessor beside Him, that they may ward off (evil).
SHAKIR: And warn with it those who fear that they shall be gathered to their Lord-- there is no guardian for them, nor any intercessor besides Him-- that they may guard (against evil).
028.046
YUSUFALI: Nor wast thou at the side of (the Mountain of) Tur when we called (to Moses). Yet (art thou sent) as Mercy from thy Lord, to give warning to a people to whom no warner had come before thee: in order that they may receive admonition.
PICKTHAL: And thou was not beside the Mount when We did call; but (the knowledge of it is) a mercy from thy Lord that thou mayst warn a folk unto whom no warner came before thee, that haply they may give heed.
SHAKIR: And you were not on this side of the mountain when We called, but a mercy from your Lord that you may warn a people to whom no warner came before you, that they may be mindful.
034.028
YUSUFALI: We have not sent thee but as a universal (Messenger) to men, giving them glad tidings, and warning them (against sin), but most men understand not.
PICKTHAL: And We have not sent thee (O Muhammad) save as a bringer of good tidings and a warner unto all mankind; but most of mankind know not.
SHAKIR: And We have not sent you but to all the men as a bearer of good news and as a warner, but most men do not know.
Warning - An intimation, threat, or sign of impending danger or evil. 2a. Advice to beware. b. Counsel to desist from a specified undesirable course of action. 3. A cautionary or deterrent example. 4. Something, such as a signal, that warns.
Warning to be afraid of the consequences or fear the consequences and do what is right and not that which is wrong.
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Hyderabadi
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:01 am
Re: 3 "Laanatti"
God is not a terrorist,His creation should fear of.
People who atribute this to God are the main source of terror in the garb of Islam.
What is the fun in creating something and then terrorizing it with the fear of Punishment.
Following a philosophy just out of fear of punishment cannot be a sensible or universal philosophy.It neither benefits the creator nor His creation.
People who atribute this to God are the main source of terror in the garb of Islam.
What is the fun in creating something and then terrorizing it with the fear of Punishment.
Following a philosophy just out of fear of punishment cannot be a sensible or universal philosophy.It neither benefits the creator nor His creation.
Re: 3 "Laanatti"
I agree, when you meet God in the hereafter, ask him if he was joking in the quran!!
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Hyderabadi
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:01 am
Re: 3 "Laanatti"
Of Course,HE was not joking..some people thought so by going with their terror translations.
Re: 3 "Laanatti"
What can I say? I have posted a hundred ayahs of the quran from 3 different translators and numerous hadith.
As Allah says in the quran
002.018
YUSUFALI: Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path).
PICKTHAL: Deaf, dumb and blind; and they return not.
SHAKIR: Deaf, dumb (and) blind, so they will not turn back.
002.007
YUSUFALI: Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).
PICKTHAL: Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.
SHAKIR: Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing and there is a covering over their eyes, and there is a great punishment for them.
As Allah says in the quran
002.018
YUSUFALI: Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path).
PICKTHAL: Deaf, dumb and blind; and they return not.
SHAKIR: Deaf, dumb (and) blind, so they will not turn back.
002.007
YUSUFALI: Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).
PICKTHAL: Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.
SHAKIR: Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing and there is a covering over their eyes, and there is a great punishment for them.
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Hyderabadi
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:01 am
Re: 3 "Laanatti"
""As Allah says in the quran
002.018
YUSUFALI: Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path).
PICKTHAL: Deaf, dumb and blind; and they return not.
SHAKIR: Deaf, dumb (and) blind, so they will not turn back. ""
--- All these verses applies to people who lacks understanding.
Have you not come across Ayats mentioning that many do not understands what the Quran conveys and a very few who are "muttaqi" or those deeply rooted in religion (Razikuna fil ilm)only get the right message.
002.018
YUSUFALI: Deaf, dumb, and blind, they will not return (to the path).
PICKTHAL: Deaf, dumb and blind; and they return not.
SHAKIR: Deaf, dumb (and) blind, so they will not turn back. ""
--- All these verses applies to people who lacks understanding.
Have you not come across Ayats mentioning that many do not understands what the Quran conveys and a very few who are "muttaqi" or those deeply rooted in religion (Razikuna fil ilm)only get the right message.
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Above Average Bohra
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 4:01 am
Re: 3 "Laanatti"
Well, sure there are some ayahs that many do not understand, but I think there aren't any ayahs that you understand.
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: 3 "Laanatti"
you have to recogninize manifest Imam of the Time and try to follow him.kabeer19922001 wrote:Dear Brother Hyderabadi
I am even more confused with your reply. You have made a pretty general statement i.e follow Ali (RA). If you ask any of the Shia sects, they will tell you that they follow Ali (RA). So why such huge differences ????
Any way,I pray my 5 prayers, give zakat, have done Hajj, try to follow the Sunnah as much as possible, keep fasts in the month of Ramamdhan, generally try not to upset my colleagues and family, try and inculcate Islamic beliefs to my children. What else I should do as an ordinary Muslim to ensure I follow Ali (RA).
Of course I don't believe in matam, offering prayers at graves etcetc
Regards
Re: 3 "Laanatti"
Who is the manifest Imam of our time?
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MM Bukhari
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:58 am
Re: 3 "Laanatti"
Quraan is zahir,batin,mutlaq IMAM for UMMAH, now those who left this IMAM are real losers and kafir.
no IMAM in human form will remain all the time, but this IMAM will remain with UMMAH till qayamat.
and this was the exact idea behind sending this IMAM to world.
now those who will stick to this IMAM will never be operessors, infact they will always stand for justice and truth, and thats the real victory, and thats the real defination of MOMEEN.
no IMAM in human form will remain all the time, but this IMAM will remain with UMMAH till qayamat.
and this was the exact idea behind sending this IMAM to world.
now those who will stick to this IMAM will never be operessors, infact they will always stand for justice and truth, and thats the real victory, and thats the real defination of MOMEEN.
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Muslim First
- Posts: 6893
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2001 4:01 am
Re: 3 "Laanatti"
We have one common Quran but does anybody have authentic Batin Quran ?MM Bukhari wrote:Quraan is zahir,batin,mutlaq IMAM for UMMAH, now those who left this IMAM are real losers and kafir.
no IMAM in human form will remain all the time, but this IMAM will remain with UMMAH till qayamat.
and this was the exact idea behind sending this IMAM to world.
now those who will stick to this IMAM will never be operessors, infact they will always stand for justice and truth, and thats the real victory, and thats the real defination of MOMEEN.