Muharram - why the hype??

[like_minded]

Aren't we wasting our precious time every year recalling what happened 1500 years ago??

I respect Imam Hussain and trully admire his great qualities which made him stand strong on the path of truth and eventually lay his life for the same.

Are we inspired by this great sacrifice?? This is the question we have to ask ourselves.

We have stickers reading LIVE LIKE ALI, DIE LIKE HUSSAIN, do we know the real meaning of it??

Because the actual meaning is something else!! It is completely opposite from what we are doing presently!! We are building monuments after a poet has died, and there are people blindly visiting those monuments, the poet is sad, he says, please dont build monuments after me, but read the poem i have written!!

The qualities that our great imam hussain had, nobody wants to follow, but at the same time they want to mourn by beating themselves almost every day. What a shame!!! Imam hussain does not want his followers to shed tears for his sacrifice, instead he wants them to follow the path which he did 1500 years ago.

So, dear bohras, stop worshipping him, he was not God, he was an ordinary human being like us with outstanding moral charecter, with chivalry being the greatest hallmark of his true self.

[pro_pig]

loke minded you might be hard core SUNNI.

[pro_pig]

LIKE

[tahir]

If you cannot follow someone's teachings, start worshipping him.
~ Anon

[Sajid Zafar]

Dear Like Minded,

You are not the first you won't be the last the raise this issue. What to do with brain washed, blind folded folks who don't understand the difference between 'HUSAIN' AND 'HUSAINYAT'. What he left for us was his Sunnah to follow but poor folks have started worshiping him. May god give these blind folks 'TAUFEEK' to follow the Sunnah of the phrophet (pbuh) which is infact the Sunnah of his ahlebaits.

[Muslim First]

.Br. Pro_Pig

As

loke minded you might be hard core SUNNI.

It is probably impossible to educate you brother but

Hz. Ali RA, Hz. Fatima RA, Hz. Hassan RA & Hz Hussain were also SUNNI (That is they were following Quran and Sunnah of Prophet).

For your information Sunni means Muslims who follow Quran and Sunnah of Prophet.

During Hz. Hussain time Shia's were not like Shias of today. They were only supporters of Ali RA.

Just like in your religion some Bohras support one son of your Dharm Guru and others have another son.

Pity on those people who still are allowing in historical events of which took place some 1400 years ago.

[tahir]

Actually now I recollect the right quote:

The best way of not following someone's teachings is to start worshipping him.

[like_minded]

Dear Propig,

What difference does it make if I am a sunni or a shia or a bohra??

You have to understand the point which i am trying to put across, for which you dont need any masters degree! just a little common sense!!

[accountability]

History about events of Karabala is almost silent. Tabari had all his narration through very unreliable and mostly strangers. His is the only histroy,(I mean islamic history) which refers to and explicitly describes the events.

Our fatmid history has no narration or reference to Karbala or the events that took place there. Daim ul Islam is also silent on this.

Regardless of historic authencity, there is consensus among mulsims, that Yazid was not a good guy, Imam Hussain was opposing him, for which he had to bear consequences. Some altercations are reported to have taken place between the people loyal to each other.

My submission is, If we are definining Husaniyat as opposing the oppressor, standing up for truth, facing the cruel ruler, then that message does not to seem to be conveyed in any waaz, or rhetorical repetence at each and every occassion.
Let us all commemmorate his martrydom in a manner befitting his message. Beating the chest and reciting nauhas or self inflicting wounds are not proper methods of conveying his message.

Let us fight injustice, oppression, poverty, ruthlessness, as Imam Hussain did. Let us be a voice of strength for usurpers and dictators. Let us take back, what is and what was rightfully ours. Let us not let the manipulators and exploiters of religion use as a tool of exploitation and manipulation.

Since last many years, the hype of muharram is taken to its peak, zillions of rupees and dollars are spent, millions of work hours are lost, people closing down their businesses for the whole month.

Wherever the event take place, masajids have only so much of capacity, for the rest of the attending public, there are screens put up for watching, which can be done anywhere even live with the technology.

I hope in future, we shall be spared of such acts, which are draining our stengths and our resources.

[Muslim First]

.
Br. AC

AS

I say Aamin for what you said about your religion.

Read my posting under CAUTION .

Unless checkd your religion will be like Agakhanis and would be far from Islam.

Wasalaam
.

[pro_pig]

like -minded
u need a common senses not me think twice.

[like_minded]

Dear Propig,

If only you guys could think!!! just think who created this world?? think about this world (earth) which is billions and billions of years old, think about the stars, sun, moon, think.. think... think... think of people in the past, numerous civilizations, ancient monuments like Taj Mahal, Great wall of china etc., just think, that presently there are billions of people living in this world, different religions, customs, language etc.

Then think of Dawoodi Bohras hardly about 2 or maybe 3 million, who have a free ticket to heaven, courtesy their religious priest (Syedna) whom they hero worship day in and day out.

I am sure you are thinking!! what conclusion do you draw??

[like_minded]

propig,

If we live in harmony keeping in mind the basic virtues like kindness, love, care, compassion, truth, then we need no religion or religious leader to follow.

Heaven is here!! you dont go there after you die, but experience it here in this world while you are alive.

The biggest miracle in this world is human birth, life, the trees you see, mountains, on the whole the beautiful nature which surrounds you. You only have to open your eyes and see it, feel it.

Remember religious leaders dont want you to have a clear mind, because it affects their business.

Religious leaders only misguide human beings, create divisions, narrow their minds, and take you away from the real world.

[tahir]

Originally posted by like_minded:


Then think of Dawoodi Bohras hardly about 2 or maybe 3 million, who have a free ticket to heaven, courtesy their religious priest (Syedna) whom they hero worship day in and day out.

It is just over 1 million and fortunately most of the victims are in the process of breaking free from the dark cocoon of burhani brainwashing (initiated by the greedy 51st dai).

Just keep posting. Rescuing the victim of misanthropic cult psychology is a favour to humanity. And please don't hate the victims like pro frog, pig etc. They deserve our sympathy. Its not their fault after all.

[like_minded]

out of that 1 milion, 1/10th are presently in colombo.

Listening to fairy tales, and beating themselves silly.

[pro_pig]

if we are 2 or 3 million bohras, so how many population of progressive dawoodi bohra? in these message board i only see few dogs just barking

[Anwar]

and of the rest of bohris, may be 2-2,5 million followers of burhanuddin, only a pig and frog are here.

[pro_pig]

to woup your a.ss

[Average Bohra]

Originally posted by like_minded:
Aren't we wasting our precious time every year recalling what happened 1500 years ago??

You are right like_minded; just like we waste time reading books written 1500+ years ago, throw rocks, and get dizzy walking around concrete and brick structures. We follow recipes which prohibit certain meats, kill people we were supposed to, and stick to fashion statements that prohibit certian attire for women. We cleanse ourselves at certain times and recite stuff in a foreign language while performing rituals of kneeling, bowing etc. All of which was written in a book 1500+ years ago.

You go figure....

[profrog]

to like minded why dont you then complain to allah that in your stupid body you produce millions of sperm cells at one go but only one is used to fertilize and the rest are wasted now make up your mind

[pro_pig]

profrog pls dont post any comment in this holy month of moharram these guys are stupit and out of knowledge.

[anajmi]

Average Moron,

You are right like_minded; just like we waste time reading books written 1500+ years ago, throw rocks, and get dizzy walking around concrete and brick structures. We follow recipes which prohibit certain meats, kill people we were supposed to, and stick to fashion statements that prohibit certian attire for women. We cleanse ourselves at certain times and recite stuff in a foreign language while performing rituals of kneeling, bowing etc. All of which was written in a book 1500+ years ago.

You go figure....

With morons like you writing all the new stuff, we are better off following the old stuff. Besides, the pagans of years before Islam, were similar to people like you of today!!

[kalim]

Average Bohra has a good point: most of us are trapped by history. Some are obsessed with gruesome descriptions of death of Hussain and his family rather than reflect on the greater message of his sacrifice. Others are even more obsessed with excruciating details of what exactly happened at the time of the prophet. Strangely, both these groups are actually recreating their own "history", legends, more accurately, as most of the "authentic accounts" were written a century or more after the alleged events. Quite interesting how human minds can be so clouded as not see the obvious absurdness of this situation.

Worse, we have people who write ponderous tomes and long "learned" articles on these topics simply because it "feels good". Some such feel-gooders have recently appeared on this board. This is about as absurd as writing a long treatise on Santa Clauses' elves or being mystified by a round square. If these people, most of whom are quite intelligent, would only spend their efforts to actually understand nature and the human condition using objective means, we would at least not be blowing each other up simply on labels like "Shia", "Sunni", "Bohra" or "Jew" or "Christian". Nature does not know of labels: any given pair of normal humans, not withstanding their physical differences, are very similar: from the level of their genes to their desires, hopes and fears.

As we go through Moharam we need to reflect on how we can better ourselves and others around us. First, our families should be of prime importance to us. This seems obvious, but religious and other fundamentalists through the centuries have used families to pressure people into a narrow straitjacket. In my own family my grandmother was forced to disown her own sister who happens to be married to a vocal reformist. Worse, bohra families have so much pressure from the kothar for money that they sometimes sacrifice their children's happiness and well being to please the mullahs. Second, we should extend our empathy to those less fortunate than us, irrespective of their personal beliefs, race, color or religion. This seems the only way to build a truly global human community ("ummah", if you please) which respects freedom and is liberal and tolerant. Unfortunately a religious "ummah" will not satisfy the requirements of freedom of conscious, free speech, democracy, tolerance, free thought, skepticism, artistic license, equality of sexes, etc. Not surprising, as religion entails a commitment to absurdities thought out by people who are long dead and reduced to dust. If we are asked to simply accept a bunch of stories as true for all times and as the "absolute, unchangeable truth" it is quite hard to tolerate those who think otherwise.

One key requirement is to adopt a sort of scientific naturalism, i.e. a world view based on objectivity and not on supernaturalism. This also means rejection, or at least deep skepticism, of belief in an afterlife. No dead person has come back to teach us about an afterlife but we only need to look around to learn about this life. I submit that the problems we presently face are not due to having less religion (as fundamentalists Christians, Jew or Muslims claim) but because we have too much of it. Humans have invented many gods, have proclaimed many prophets and seers, and have written much sacred literature. Yet, nothing has led to peace or brotherhood. We only need to glance at Iraq or Afghanistan where Shias and Sunnis are busy murdering each other or North Ireland where bloody ethno-political Christan battles were being fought or the recent genocide in Africa. Of course, the past is also full of religious wars, from Muslim colonist expansion to Christian crusades. We need to wake up and throw out all our false gods, realize that only humans can help humans and learn to solve our problems ourselves. No mahdi or christ will suddenly appear leading us all to bliss.

I hope that, between sessions of chest thumping and burps of satisfied gluttony, the orthodox bohras will have a chance to reflect on why Hussain decided to sacrifice himself and his family rather than join hands with Yazid. Are we not by presenting shawls and gift of money to tyrants like Modi and Saddam pandering to the likes of Yazid? Supporting unscrupulous politicians in the US is also not a sign of a principled leader. Maybe rubbing shoulders with tyrants has turned our leaders into tyrants and thugs too. I hope they also ask themselves if it is not the cheap emotional outbursts in the waaz that attracts them to the da'i rather than any ethical principles or magnanimity displayed by him. I know it is too much to hope but perhaps someday the orthodox will wake up from their dogmatic slumber.

[anajmi]

kalim,

If you had the balls to actually reply to any one of feelgud's posts directly, this long rhetoric of yours wouldn't have been such a big waste of space.

[anajmi]

You mention about the Shias and Sunnis killing each other in Iraq for religion, but you fail to mention the Shias and Sunnis killed by the Americans in Iraq and then in Israel or Lebanon. Oh wait, those were killed not for religion. Ahhh, I guess it is ok then.

Apply your scientific thinking to this question. Have you ever wondered, where the never ending supply of car bombs in Iraq actually come from, when Saddam's entire cash of weaponry was destroyed? What is the only source of weapons in Iraq?

If people like you were to actually start thinking, the world would be a much better place!!

[like_minded]

Kalim,

Bulls eye.

[anajmi]

If we are asked to simply accept a bunch of stories as true for all times and as the "absolute, unchangeable truth" it is quite hard to tolerate those who think otherwise.

Actually a story which is true will remain true for all times won't it? And if it was false then it was false at the beginning and won't become false cause you say so. Besides, no one asks you to accept anything as the truth. A majority on earth does not believe in Islam and last I checked, it was they who were being intolerant towards Islam!!

[Average Bohra]

Originally posted by anajmi:
a story which is true will remain true for all times won't it? And if it was false then it was false at the beginning

Wahabanajmi,

Perhaps you jumped into this discussion prior to your intellect catching up (assuming it will, one day). The truth of the "story" is not established yet, and hence the discussions and religious discourse. If you get there before we do, please be sure and let us know (if the virgins leave you alone long enough to type that is).

[anajmi]

Average Moron,

The truth of the "story" is not established yet, and hence the discussions and religious discourse. If you get there before we do, please be sure and let us know (if the virgins leave you alone long enough to type that is).

Are you actually trying to establish the truth? In case you do find out the truth and finally get there, the virgins will be pretty disappointed with a moron whose penis was surgically removed by anajmi!!