Riwayat...

[JC]

Bro Tahir,

This will not go to their heads.

Bros Muslim-First and Hussain-KSA

I am a bohra by birth, not by belief. I aviod going to bohra jamatkhanas (whihc they call masjid) and to their other social gatherings. I know their dirty practices in Makkah and Madina and many Sunnis know that but donot say anything as they are God-fearing people and have left bohras to their fate (and to their dieing Maula).

See they have so many Gods, to bring Godhood to Dai they will start from Prophet, then Ali, Hussain, Imams, Dais and then offcousre burhan the current dictator. As a saying goes - if you Believe in One God, you will not have any problems and you will not bow to anyone, but if you choose to Believe in Many Gods, you will bow to every one - bohras bow to everyone and present their dirty a**** to every one - and they enjoy that too thinking they are having Fun and Sawab ...!!!!!

They will even not understand this simple thing - Grave Worship is Haram, no matter what you say and whosover you quote - it is simple logic.

[SBM]

************************************************
Brother MF, OB asked you a very valid question. I read in your previous post, that you were socializing with some shiekhs, and at the time of prayer, you wanted a jamat, which they refused.
*************************************************
Br. MF
Still waiting for an explanation.

[shabir]

by remembering your dead people is not worshiping them. By paying a visit to your reltives house doesnot mean you are worshiping your relative.The grave is a house of the dead people. Paying regular visit and giving them the hadiya of the sura of the holy quaran is not worshiping but respecting the dead people. I think MF should also do that, that is if he still respect the same dead people who brought him up, fed him and made him as old as he is now.

[like_minded]

Nothing wrong in remembering dead people, the fault lies in worshipping them.

Whats seen at any ziarat spots is Bohras indulging in worship, grave worship and nothing else. Thinking, that by doing so, they are earning barakaat.

If the blind followers are really intrested in remembering the dead dais or imams, they should try their level best to follow the principles laid down by them., that is good enough, nothing more is required.

I fail to understand that a simple thing like this does not penetrate the thick skulls of the blind-followers.

[Udaipuri]

I fail to understand that a simple thing like this does not penetrate the thick skulls of the blind-followers.

Simple. Because they are thick.

[JC]

So you see Bro Like_Minded, simple things are not getting into their brains!!! oh sorry, they do not have one, they have exchanged it for something else.

Bro Shabir

Yes there is no harm visiting your relatives at their houses, because they are ALIVE, not dead..!!

And as Bro LM said, no harm remembering dead, but what bohras do at rozas is grave worship. When you visit any grave of your relative, do u do sajjda, do u think u r getting sawab, do u do manat, do u ask that dead person to help you and solve ur problems, no!! bohras do all such things at roza and yes there are sunnis to who go to graves and do manat and all that - that is wrong too. In Lahore, Data Darbar, In Ajmer, Khwaja Moinuddin - what people do there is Grave Worship too..!!

[porus]

JC,

Why is it wrong to worship graves?

[Muslim First]

.

GRAVE-WORSHIP

.

[Humsafar]

This article - approvingly quoted by MF - condemns social and cultural integration. But integration is a good thing. Culture matters more than religion as seen in the split of pakistan and bangladesh. Both shared the same religion, but it's culture that froced them apart.

To impose "pure" islam of 7th century arabia (loaded with pagan tribal arabian culture) on alien peoples of faraway lands is bad enough. Now you want to rob them of their culutral and social values too?

[porus]

Originally posted by Muslim First:
.

GRAVE-WORSHIP

.

Pure bigotry!!

[like_minded]

Originally posted by porus:
JC,

Why is it wrong to worship graves?

I am not against grave worship just because it is forbidden in Islam, It is because it makes no sense and it also drives the worshipper deep into the cave of ignorance and lack of understanding.

Religion was introduced many many years ago to inculcate sense and understanding, But now one sees these core subjects have vanished in thin air, and all that is left is utter ignorance.

[tahir]

One must understand the intensions behind the ziyarat industry. Syedna's corporation promotes ziyarats not for the spiritual upliftment of bohras but for the following reasons:

1) The gullak placed at the ziyarat earns a substantial revenue for the perepheral expences of kothar and Syedna's family.
2) The luxury musafirkhanas accompanying the ziyarats are a part of an ambitious plan of Syedna Inc. to diversify into hospitality industry. This way, syedna can ensure financial security for his generations to come.

The board of control of Syedna Inc has sensed that the revenue-heads which include salaam, ziyafat, title selling, wajebaat, darees/ziyafat home entry fees etc are going to fall in the future as people become more enlightened. So the business development division and marketing department have largescale plans to diversify into hopitality industry around ziyarats. They believe that people will atleast come to pay homage to the previous dais if not the recent 'charismatic' ones.

[like_minded]

You've got it right brother Tahir.