A challenge to all intellectual Abde-Sayednas

[ponga bhori]

Is there a way out of the present state of the bohra community.
I think there has to be solution suitable to all.
For one thing THE DAI is a MUST.

[Mamluk-E-Syedna]

The manner in which you have phrased the statement is biased to start with. There is a presumption on your part the state of the Dawoodi Bohras under the saaya of our shafiq bawa Aqa Maula Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb (TUS) is something that ought to be changed. That is your opinion. Now let me open your eyes to what the fact is. Aqa Maula (TUS) is the Dai-ul-Mutlaq, and the vicegerent of Imam-uz-Zamaan. Even you regressives do not deny that! The right path (way), siraat-ul-mustaqim, is the one that our Maula is on, and that is the path all Dawoodi Bohras follow with pride, mohabbat, tafaadi, and fidagiri. If you seek a "way out of" it, then whatever you find, if you find it at all, will be nothing but a road that will take you to Jahannum (and rest assured, there will be no possibility of turning around; so, once you go astray, you are going to be in Jahannum-ni-Khaar forever).

So, the real challenge is not for us, but for you all regressives to wake up while still there is still a chance, get rid of your hatred and jealousy, accept with heart what you pretentiously state on this website that "Oh, we accept Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb (TUS) as our Dai", and stop looking for a "way out" while the correct path is right in front of your eyes.

Khuda tamne nek taufiq aapey.

May Allah Subhanahu grant long, long life to our beloved Aqa Maula Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb (TUS). Aameen.

[ponga bhori]

DearMamluk-E-Syedna,

No I am not bias.Not biased against the Syedna infact not at with Progressive. For I feel that they are wrong to be Dawoodi-Bohras and going against the very head of the religious head they themselves say that they believe in. Does not make sense to believe when BELIEF is not full and complete.Often I have said why not just leave them.

I having been through some of the wrongs of the Amil, have just left silently and with no protest. The new Amil is a witness of my attitude.But let that be, I have this upper most in mind "why this infighting/miss understanding what ever it be within a religion.Is this Barrat really required?

You will observe that the word "mess" was not included as in the other challenge.
I am always been of the opinion that the Dawoodi-Bohras have this belief of theirs and that is it.
They believe in the Imam, the hidden Immam and the Dia after him. If the Dawoodi-Bohras are paying what ever it is their own free will.

[mburhan]

The clause "intellectual Abde-syedna" or "mamlu-ke syedna" is analagous to another phrase "the honest lawyer".

Please!!!!!

[ponga bhori]

Dear Mamluk-E-Syedna,

"siraat-ul-mustaqim, is the one that our Maula is on, and that is the path all Dawoodi Bohras follow with pride, mohabbat, tafaadi, and fidagiri. If you seek a "way out of" it, then whatever you find, if you find it at all, will be nothing but a road that will take you to Jahannum (and rest assured, there will be no possibility of turning around; so, once you go astray, you are going to be in Jahannum-ni-Khaar forever)."

It is human nature to seek new ways, and may be it is the saitans doings too. But does not mean that once you seek a way means that Jahannum FOREVER. Allah will do the final judgement and may forgive all together. Any way since that is your belief let it be so. I personnaly do not believe in this.

So being ALL WISE why not spare some efforts on these people who you say are gone astray. I can speak for myself, I was on the path of Moulana, doing and trying to do things of the Siratul mustaqim. I saw no reason, nor did the next Amil, for being taken out. This caused irrepairable damage to me and my family. Now I feel good and on a better path, that is my very firm belief, and I am sure to be judged well for my deeds. Now inspite of agreeing that wrong was done me, there was nothing done. Whom do you think I blame for this wrong.

Now I do not bite the Moula "MASOOM" talk. Specially not after he has been made aware of this wrong.

Oh come on wake up Mum LOOK (open your own eyes) there is atleast ONE THING if not many to be changed. Do not be so very sure that paradise is yours.

[ponga bhori]

Please join me and M-E-S in sincere prayer:

Khuda tamne nek taufiq aapey.
May Allah Subhanahu grant long, long,long life to our beloved Aqa Maula Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Saheb (TUS). Aameen

[Zeal]

Mamluk,

what is tafaadi?

[ponga bhori]

TAFADI - in the context of a mumin is an out pouring of true valayat and ma’arefat. As emphasized in my earlier article, when a mumin does 'tafadi' for his Moula, it is not merely a flutter of the heart, but it is a commitment, which will be tested time and again, it is commitment where one has to make very difficult choices.

The emotions of love and sacrifice for his Moula, no doubt provides the power and thrust to the soul, to which the mind (Aql) - by taffakur and true ma’arefat, gives the right direction and flight, so that by the virtue of ‘tafadi’ a mumin submerges and becomes one, in the ocean of radiance emanating from the ruhani personality of his Moula.

[ponga bhori]

for more on this word TAFAADI goto
http://hikmaah.com/tafaadi.asp?article=3

[ponga bhori]

I would think such a TAFAADI should be to Allah,
to acheive even greater results.

[ponga bhori]

Very much like Bhuddhism.
Where an enlightened being-(a Buddha)can enter the world to benefit all other beings. To attain Nirvana which is not a place (like heaven).

[africawalla]

The present Dawoodi community is at the following stage

1) Very prosperous and educated professional community
2) United under one leader
3) more then a thousand jamaats around the world
4) million plus followers
5) a very good social life
6) desciplined community
7) children educated in madressas giving them identity in foreign land
very influencial politically
9)religious in its outlook
10) Community sustaining itself without charity
11) Have a Kardhe Hassana fund which helps people within the community
12) A civil service infrastructure controlling and running of a million plus members and a thousand plus jamaats

If an outsider looks at this statistics they will be well impressed

[Humsafar]

Allow that outisder to look at the lives of bohras beyond the statistics and he will be astounded that humans can be so bereft of morality and conscience; that they can be moulded and manipulated like automatons; that they can be insulted and humiliated and yet are unable to raise their voice; that they could be so ignorant of their riligion and history; that they could be so easily and systematically parted with their hard-earned money; that for the sake of community identity and social conveniences they could sacrifice their very humanity; and lastly the outsider will wonder whether he is looking at a community in the 21st century or a shattered peasant society in the medieval ages.

[africawalla]

thats 1 million plus people you are talking about
They have decided to be part of it and are happy to go with it

There may be individual instances of people being oppressed but not any more in the 21st century and people are enpowered to speak out

You will also always get some people who are currupt and misuse power but thats normal in any socities, its human nature

Its the same in the society we live in , our gov't have a lot of unpleasant policies etc but we still carry on

I think that having the notion that people in this communities are zombies and with no intelect is an insult to this 1 million plus brethren

You are one of us and should respect us and our community

I understand your stand because of past experiences but things are changing and v can work whitin the community to change

Critising from outside will just allienate the people you are trying to convince

[Humsafar]

We all know why the 1 million plus people have decided to be part of the community, so let's not go into that. However, I'd not describe their situation as "happy". If they had a real choice, let's say through an election, they would lose no time in booting the corrupt system out. They have no choice but to be "happy". And let's it at that.

It's not a question of some people being courrupt. Corruption - financial and religious - is the organising principle. To say that only some mullahs are corrupt (and it's human nature) but overall intentions are good is nothing but propoganda.

Governments are accountable to people, they can be voted out.

Certainly the 1 million bohras are not stupid. They know which side their naans are buttered. Being merchants and petty shopkeepers they see profit in going with the flow. They know the whole thing is a hoax and continue to play along for obvious reasons. The clergy is using them as they are using the clergy.

It those who do not protest against the wrongs are actually disrespecting the community.

I'm not a reformist by past experience but by choice, on princeple. And yes we can work within to change. What do you propose we should do?

It's not criticising that alienates the people. They already know the facts, only they do not want "outsiders" to talk about it. It's their own sense of shame and cowardice that alienates them.

[ponga bhori]

v can work whitin the community to change

What does this mean, how/what can we do now?

[tahir]

Originally posted by Mamluk-E-Syedna:
Now let me open your eyes to what the fact is. Aqa Maula (TUS) is the Dai-ul-Mutlaq, and the vicegerent of Imam-uz-Zamaan.

Can you back this 'fact' with any document of Islam ? Even Yazeed's follower thought that he is the true king. I am sure you can do better than them and actually prove through Quran that our dear Aqa mulla bawaji shafiq bhai TUS wala (52/110) has truely truely anything to do with Imam.

[tahir]

Originally posted by africawalla:
The present Dawoodi community is at the following stage

1) Very prosperous and educated professional community
2) United under one leader
4) million plus followers
5) a very good social life
6) desciplined community
7) children educated in madressas giving them identity in foreign land
very influencial politically
9)religious in its outlook
10) Community sustaining itself without charity
12) A civil service infrastructure controlling and running of a million plus members and a thousand plus jamaats

If an outsider looks at this statistics they will be well impressed

All outsiders were pretty impressed by Idi Amin's Uganda and Pol Pot's Combodia owing to similar factors.

And looks like atleast one outsider is not so impressed:
http://www.sabrang.com/cc/comold/march99/cover4.htm

[africawalla]

Tahir,

Wrong examples mate

[tahir]

Sorry to disappoint you mate!
Couldn't come up with the waaz/sabak kind of 'right' examples.
You can continue with your list of bohra utopia. 12 points are just too short.