I was just going through todays news on bbc. One rhetoric was from bush, an advice for israel to care about a fragile democracy in lebenon. his emphasis on fragile was greater than anything else.
It made me think of entire islamic world. I could not find one real democracy in entire islamic world, from Iraq to indonesia. Every country has its own history with dictatorship. Most of the dictatorships in middle east are so called secular and moderate. Most of the arab rulers are fighting against so called islamic fundamentalism.
I found very intresting example of Iran. Iran with its present form of power sharing government is a unique phenomenon. Whatever western media says about iran is one thing. The deep analysis of iranian phenomenon will reveal that it has been able to created a weird balance between religion and society. while it seems that religion is dominant in iranian setup. But on the other hand religion is seen submitting to social and evouloutionery tendencies in iranian society.
Iran has had elections in war and peace, iranian style democracy was active even during the war with iraq. while on the other hand iraq with its stupid dictator was shaking despite the full co operation of gulf co operation council, an umbrella body of rich wahabi shiekhs club.
At the end of the war, Iran emerged as a regional power, with its influence expanding in lebanon and else where. Current iranian president is an example of iranian phenomenon. though he is not a mulla, but due to his honesty and boldness, mullas are compelled to support him. In thirty or so years of revoloutionery iran, he allowed women to watch sport games in stadium, he has allowed women military officers so forth and so on.
Beside this iranian example, there isn't any other democracy in islamic world. Pakistan on its part had always been under the influence of army dictatorship. Zia ul haque with his iron fisted martial law used islam for his illegal coup. Muslim league and jamat e islami were staunch supporter of his dictatorship. Even some religious scholars were bent upon proving that islam and democracy can not go hand in hand. That islam do not give anyone right to choose their ruler, rather it is imposed by allah, and being a good mulsim, you have to obey the ruler imposed.
If the ummah is good and god fearing, they will get good ruler, but if the ummah is gumrah and loose in faith, then they will have to bear unjust and cruel rulers. But the delima is, that with gumrah ummah and gumrah ruler, when and how will they get a chance to become good and firm believers.
The very fact is evident in our fifteen hundred years history. Not a single ruler can be termed as just and honest. There could also be some finger pointed towards ffour khalifas. each one had atleast brush with nepotism and favourtism. They could not establish any just or equitable society. Nor could they demonstrate the real and social justice beside some vague examples. Hazrat abu bakr and his family were richer after his demise. Hazrat umer left behind the atrocial treatment of hazrat fatima and kins of rasulilah. Hazrat usman empowered bani ummaya, Hazrat ali passed khilafat to his son hazrat hassan, thus abolishing khilafat.
After that muawaia and bani ummayads and bani abbass and so on were all brutal rulers with no evidence of social justice. Thouhg irony is, each one of them claimed to be the khlaifat ullah, vice of allah on earth.
so going through the past islamic history, how safely can we assume, that ummah with its present interpretation of religion, will ever be able to bring about a just and equitable system of governance.
Islam and democracy
Re: Islam and democracy
Democracy is illusion.Every democratic country is open to a couple of selected parties.These two parties will play politics and make sure a third one doesnt come along.
At an Islamic lecture I once heard that majority will always be wrong.I have since compared and concluded it to be true.Take the example of Bohras.Then proceed to shias and sunnies in Islam.Then chirstian and muslims etc.,etc,.
Also the ruler will usaully be very rich person to start out.If all the citizens do not have an even shot at this,then there will be no democracy.There has been some instances where democracy was born,but soon died in infancy.
Salams
At an Islamic lecture I once heard that majority will always be wrong.I have since compared and concluded it to be true.Take the example of Bohras.Then proceed to shias and sunnies in Islam.Then chirstian and muslims etc.,etc,.
Also the ruler will usaully be very rich person to start out.If all the citizens do not have an even shot at this,then there will be no democracy.There has been some instances where democracy was born,but soon died in infancy.
Salams
Re: Islam and democracy
democracy is an american farce.russia which neve rhad democracy yet was more powerful than america.and its people were very happy specially the poor ones.democracy, free market and capitalism make the rich richer and the poor poorer.carl marx made the phylosophy of comunism which ensured that all people had enough and went to sleep with full stomach.he said that why should some people have so much money that they do not know what to do with it and why should there be people who do not have enough even to have three proper meals per day.obviously as we see in the world now where countries like India went on to become free markets and definatley the rich are becoming richer and the poor are becoming poor.money is in the pockets of a few and the majority are struggling which has resulted in crimes which we never heard of before.
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Average Bohra
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Re: Islam and democracy
Shabir,
Your reasoning is asinine and devoid of logic. Communism does not make anyone rich, but grants everyone equal access to poverty. It is a great system for those that like to be led and even better for those that like to control your destiny.
Being "rich" is not a bad thing, if you earn it and any system should allow that accomplishment. Hence communism has failed everywhere, and not by force.
Accty,
Democracy does not work in Islam because Islam relies on control and compulsion. A Democracy survives on accountability and there is no such thing in Islam. It is the easiest religion to follow because it is about rote and rituals. Its convenience is its rigidness and force. If you can go to heaven by reading a book, performing ritualistic acts and thinking alike, why risk it all to a democracy ?
Freedom of thought is more difficult to implement.
Your reasoning is asinine and devoid of logic. Communism does not make anyone rich, but grants everyone equal access to poverty. It is a great system for those that like to be led and even better for those that like to control your destiny.
Being "rich" is not a bad thing, if you earn it and any system should allow that accomplishment. Hence communism has failed everywhere, and not by force.
Accty,
Democracy does not work in Islam because Islam relies on control and compulsion. A Democracy survives on accountability and there is no such thing in Islam. It is the easiest religion to follow because it is about rote and rituals. Its convenience is its rigidness and force. If you can go to heaven by reading a book, performing ritualistic acts and thinking alike, why risk it all to a democracy ?
Freedom of thought is more difficult to implement.
Re: Islam and democracy
Average Bohra,
I am not sure if you understand what a democracy is. You might want to hit the books on that one.
And I am sure you do not understand Islam. You might want to hit the books on that one too. But that one may prove to be more difficult for you. So let me explain in one sentence. The entire quran is nothing but a lecture on being held accountable for your deeds and misdeeds. Now that is something a 5 year old would know.
If accountability had anything to do with the democracy in America or Israel, the world would've been a much better place.
I am not sure if you understand what a democracy is. You might want to hit the books on that one.
And I am sure you do not understand Islam. You might want to hit the books on that one too. But that one may prove to be more difficult for you. So let me explain in one sentence. The entire quran is nothing but a lecture on being held accountable for your deeds and misdeeds. Now that is something a 5 year old would know.
If accountability had anything to do with the democracy in America or Israel, the world would've been a much better place.
Re: Islam and democracy
communism or i would say socialism is ideal for a system like ours in which all people have a somewhat equal earnings.people like kruschew, lenin and other russian leaders made a farse out of this wonderful idealogy designed by carl marx.
Now th americans are doing the same thing what russia did 100 yrs back.russians imposed their ideology into the peoples minds and for that they had camps in which idelogical education was imparted.now we see that americans are trying to impose their ideology on the countries of theworld.and they are as cruel as the russians used to be .so as far as it goes the people in power just want to remain in power as long as they can.like bush is now obessed with this precedency and want not to leave it.so he is creating situations and finally he will take these situation to such an height that the constitution of america will become nullified and bush will extract super powers even going above the constitution.
Now th americans are doing the same thing what russia did 100 yrs back.russians imposed their ideology into the peoples minds and for that they had camps in which idelogical education was imparted.now we see that americans are trying to impose their ideology on the countries of theworld.and they are as cruel as the russians used to be .so as far as it goes the people in power just want to remain in power as long as they can.like bush is now obessed with this precedency and want not to leave it.so he is creating situations and finally he will take these situation to such an height that the constitution of america will become nullified and bush will extract super powers even going above the constitution.
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Re: Islam and democracy
Shabir: How could a socialist minded person be void of cirtical thinking about relgion.
AB: American democracy is, my way or high way. As I previously said, american constitution is the best men written document for his governance. William Jefferson etc, tried to empower the ordinary being. Actually they succeeded in creating a democracy, which is still functional after 200 years, with some discrepencies.
You told me, that you have read american constitution. If you read soviet constitution, which is now defunct, was better in empowering public, and more accountable. But, the actual constitution was never put into practice in soviet union. I think, that soviet and american systems were similar in most of aspect, in american system of governance, one group of enterpeuners are empowered at the cost of ordinay person, In soviet case, a group of bourzuacrats were in power, by imposition.
Let me sum up the definition of democracy.
As Winston Churchil Put it.
Democracy is the worst system of governance, but it is better than the rest.
AB: American democracy is, my way or high way. As I previously said, american constitution is the best men written document for his governance. William Jefferson etc, tried to empower the ordinary being. Actually they succeeded in creating a democracy, which is still functional after 200 years, with some discrepencies.
You told me, that you have read american constitution. If you read soviet constitution, which is now defunct, was better in empowering public, and more accountable. But, the actual constitution was never put into practice in soviet union. I think, that soviet and american systems were similar in most of aspect, in american system of governance, one group of enterpeuners are empowered at the cost of ordinay person, In soviet case, a group of bourzuacrats were in power, by imposition.
Let me sum up the definition of democracy.
As Winston Churchil Put it.
Democracy is the worst system of governance, but it is better than the rest.
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Average Bohra
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Re: Islam and democracy
Accty,
I would lend that a democracy is the messiest system of governance, but not the worst. The problem is that the people that do not participate in the democratic process criticise it. No system can guarantee that you always get what you want, but the majority of those who participate do, and the minority of those who participate don't The latter does not diss a democracy but wait for the next election. I can't speak for those who don't participate yet expect a utopian government that makes every happy. That does not exist in the real world.
No, I have not read the Soviet "Constitution" and if it was "never put into practice" then it can't be "defunct" can it ?
I think, that soviet and american systems were similar in most of aspect
Absolutely no similarity.
in american system of governance, one group of enterpeuners are empowered at the cost of ordinay person
Again, incorrect. Participants are empowered and the non-participants feel as you do.
I would lend that a democracy is the messiest system of governance, but not the worst. The problem is that the people that do not participate in the democratic process criticise it. No system can guarantee that you always get what you want, but the majority of those who participate do, and the minority of those who participate don't The latter does not diss a democracy but wait for the next election. I can't speak for those who don't participate yet expect a utopian government that makes every happy. That does not exist in the real world.
No, I have not read the Soviet "Constitution" and if it was "never put into practice" then it can't be "defunct" can it ?
I think, that soviet and american systems were similar in most of aspect
Absolutely no similarity.
in american system of governance, one group of enterpeuners are empowered at the cost of ordinay person
Again, incorrect. Participants are empowered and the non-participants feel as you do.
Re: Islam and democracy
I have heard that come out of the mouth of every politician that didn't want to be held accountable for his actions but wanted to pass the buck on to the citizens instead.but the majority of those who participate do, and the minority of those who participate don't The latter does not diss a democracy but wait for the next election.
Unfortunately, it does not take into consideration rigged elections which is the norm even in America nor does it take into consideration elections decided by the courts and not by public opinion.
Re: Islam and democracy
A majority of people in America do not vote. An indication of the fact that the majority doesn't want the democracy that they are currently having to survive.
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Re: Islam and democracy
Anajmi: It is not correct, that majority of the americans are not intrested in democracy. In late ninteenth century, America was the 2nd only real democracy, beside england. IN 200 years of its democracy, not one single coup, or one fradulant election result etc. It is pretty impressing.
If majority of americans were not intrested in democracy, then any accident would have happened.
If majority of americans were not intrested in democracy, then any accident would have happened.
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Re: Islam and democracy
Anajmi: If you think, that democracy is not "the system of governance" which is good for human beings. Then what system of governance, would you suggest, that we should have.
Islam does not specify any system of governance. What will be the system of governance in any islamic society. In 1400 years of history, there isn't any example of regular governance. Please do quote, if you know one.
Islam does not specify any system of governance. What will be the system of governance in any islamic society. In 1400 years of history, there isn't any example of regular governance. Please do quote, if you know one.
Re: Islam and democracy
accty,
I actually do not care about what happened in the last 200 years in America. America was a great country then and up until a couple of decades ago I thought of America to be the best country in the world. Things have changed in the last couple of decades with war mongers and fascists coming to power, and apathy setting in with the general populace.
I have never said that democracy is not the right system of governance. I am just saying that please do not give the example of America as an ideal democracy. According to a recent spat between Bush and Putin, Bush actually wanted Russia to be a democracy like Iraq. Besides the fact that he doesn't need to prove anymore that is as stupid as a dodo, he could've atleast given the example of the American democracy!!
Islam specifies an ideal system of governance. It is called Islam. The system of governance in an Islamic society is called Islam. The laws of an Islamic society are not created by humans, but by the almighty. Unfortunately, people who get in a position where they can establish an Islamic form of governance, even in a small scale, like the bohra community, corruption creeps in because of ignorance of Islam and lack of faith.
So what is the solution. Pray to Allah regularly and seek his help. Cause this problem is now beyond human hands to fix. Not that they are incapable of fixing it, just that it would be too easy to fix it, and arms dealers like the US and the UK would have to start looking for other ways to make a living.
I actually do not care about what happened in the last 200 years in America. America was a great country then and up until a couple of decades ago I thought of America to be the best country in the world. Things have changed in the last couple of decades with war mongers and fascists coming to power, and apathy setting in with the general populace.
I have never said that democracy is not the right system of governance. I am just saying that please do not give the example of America as an ideal democracy. According to a recent spat between Bush and Putin, Bush actually wanted Russia to be a democracy like Iraq. Besides the fact that he doesn't need to prove anymore that is as stupid as a dodo, he could've atleast given the example of the American democracy!!
Islam specifies an ideal system of governance. It is called Islam. The system of governance in an Islamic society is called Islam. The laws of an Islamic society are not created by humans, but by the almighty. Unfortunately, people who get in a position where they can establish an Islamic form of governance, even in a small scale, like the bohra community, corruption creeps in because of ignorance of Islam and lack of faith.
So what is the solution. Pray to Allah regularly and seek his help. Cause this problem is now beyond human hands to fix. Not that they are incapable of fixing it, just that it would be too easy to fix it, and arms dealers like the US and the UK would have to start looking for other ways to make a living.
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Average Bohra
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Re: Islam and democracy
Brilliant post Anajmi, very eloquently answered Accty's question as to why there is no Democracy in Islam.Originally posted by anajmi:
accty,
Islam specifies an ideal system of governance. It is called Islam. The system of governance in an Islamic society is called Islam. The laws of an Islamic society are not created by humans, but by the almighty.
I do have a few questions however:
1. Where does the Almighty state that a government should provide a Fire Department & a Police department ?
2. What is the minimum driving age and speed limit according to Hadiths ?
3. What does the Quran say about emission limits for cars vs. trucks ?
4. Any Hadith against anti-trust laws?
5. What about reporting requirements for publicly-traded companies and the proper accounting for stock options ?
6. Insider trading ?
7. Having a proper weather tracking system ?
8. Downloading of music ?
9. Copyright protection ?
10. Immigration ?
11. Almighty forbid if your child is critically injured and you Pray to Allah regularly and seek his help but He happens to be preoccupied and the Ambulance does not arrive in time, who sets the acceptable response times and can you punish Allah for it ?
12. What is the minimum wage law ?
13. Is an employee who gets paid for working 8 hours a day but brags about working four eligible for unemployement upon termination ?
14. What unemployment compensation limits does the Quran provide ?
15. Does it agree with the current FCC laws regarding aiwaves. If not, what do the Hadiths say ?
16. What does He say about the distribution of phone numbers of cell phones vs. land lines ?
17. Does it favor competition between cable companies or assigned territories ?
18. What is the Quran's guideline for prescription drugs ?
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Re: Islam and democracy
Let us say, that in an islamic country, one individual comes to power, and proclaims to rule by the laws of sharia. How would he govern. Will that individual write a constitution.
Sharia deals only with four or five crimes.
How would the ruler determine the punishment for cyber crimes, bank crimes, financial bunglings, even cheating in exam etc.
If he devises a legal system for dealing with such situations, then it would not be totally based on divine laws. Men have to write some laws for immigration, customs etc.
As these laws are not based on divinity, can people revolt against these law legally. How will they change the ruler, who is not listening to them.
If we really want to devise a system of governance, that is regular, carries legitimacy, then we shall have to come up with soloutions, we shall have to identify the basis of legislation.
unless we come up with a system, that is practicable, praying only will not change much.
If we are sincere in estabilishing an islamic state, then we will have to deal with the issues, that modern governance will face.
How will we define human rights. (let us be bold, define it according to sharia, and then stick to it with honesty).
Our financial system. Again, let us define it accordingly, and stick to it.
Our foriegn policy.
our education system.
Sharia deals only with four or five crimes.
How would the ruler determine the punishment for cyber crimes, bank crimes, financial bunglings, even cheating in exam etc.
If he devises a legal system for dealing with such situations, then it would not be totally based on divine laws. Men have to write some laws for immigration, customs etc.
As these laws are not based on divinity, can people revolt against these law legally. How will they change the ruler, who is not listening to them.
If we really want to devise a system of governance, that is regular, carries legitimacy, then we shall have to come up with soloutions, we shall have to identify the basis of legislation.
unless we come up with a system, that is practicable, praying only will not change much.
If we are sincere in estabilishing an islamic state, then we will have to deal with the issues, that modern governance will face.
How will we define human rights. (let us be bold, define it according to sharia, and then stick to it with honesty).
Our financial system. Again, let us define it accordingly, and stick to it.
Our foriegn policy.
our education system.
Re: Islam and democracy
I wish I could say the same about your post. If Allah had sent the quran to the extemely stupid, I am sure all of your questions would've been answered in it...literally...!!Brilliant post Anajmi
Re: Islam and democracy
accty,
Again, the questions you ask are the kind of questions that my 4 year old daughter asks me. If Allah decides to bring about a new quran, I hope it is for the mentally retarded. Then you will have all your questions answered in it.
Again, the questions you ask are the kind of questions that my 4 year old daughter asks me. If Allah decides to bring about a new quran, I hope it is for the mentally retarded. Then you will have all your questions answered in it.
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Average Bohra
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Re: Islam and democracy
Translation:
Duh-oh
Duh-oh
Re: Islam and democracy
I didn't want to sound like I don't want to answer your questions so I will try to get down to that level to some extent.
In cases where a particular question is not explicitly answered in the quran or shariah, experts in shariah form a council and come to a consesus about how best to resolve it in a manner that it is not against Islam.
For eg, bank crimes. It has to be relative. The punishment for a crime should be such that the criminal regrets having committed the crime. If say for eg a person steals goods worth $10 million and is thrown in jail for 6 months, there will be no regret. A person who stole a loaf of bread thrown into jail for a week will be regretful of his crime.
Of course the society needs to be such that a person shouldn't be hungry for a loaf of bread. That is the kind of society that Islam advocates.
Ofcourse if the reader is really stupid, he will ask me, what if the loaf of bread is really big!!
In cases where a particular question is not explicitly answered in the quran or shariah, experts in shariah form a council and come to a consesus about how best to resolve it in a manner that it is not against Islam.
For eg, bank crimes. It has to be relative. The punishment for a crime should be such that the criminal regrets having committed the crime. If say for eg a person steals goods worth $10 million and is thrown in jail for 6 months, there will be no regret. A person who stole a loaf of bread thrown into jail for a week will be regretful of his crime.
Of course the society needs to be such that a person shouldn't be hungry for a loaf of bread. That is the kind of society that Islam advocates.
Ofcourse if the reader is really stupid, he will ask me, what if the loaf of bread is really big!!
Re: Islam and democracy
Average Bohra,
It's a pity America is filled with people like you. A great country gone to the dogs!!
It's a pity America is filled with people like you. A great country gone to the dogs!!
Re: Islam and democracy
I guess those faces makes one look smart. I wanna look smart too. 
Re: Islam and democracy
accty,
Similarly there are a lot of other things that we can learn from the current American system of governance. For eg you will not be allowed to attack another country unless and until it has attacked you first, and you will need to prove it to other countries in the world that you were attacked before carrying out an attack.
You will have the right to defend yourself, but that "defence" won't be like the way the Israelis are defending themselves against Lebanon right now. That "defence" will be truly defensive in nature.
No country will have veto power in any organization of all the countries. Every countries vote will count the same.
So you see my friend, if we work together, we can come up with answers to pretty much every question you can comeup with. Even distribution of cellphone numbers, if that is amongst the 18 most important things you care about. Although I hope you are not that stupid.
Here is my suggestion. A leader will be allowed to change public opinion against him within 3 months. Within those 3 months he will not be allowed to attack any country. That way we won't be stuck with useless leadership for years, like the Americans are right now.As these laws are not based on divinity, can people revolt against these law legally. How will they change the ruler, who is not listening to them.
Similarly there are a lot of other things that we can learn from the current American system of governance. For eg you will not be allowed to attack another country unless and until it has attacked you first, and you will need to prove it to other countries in the world that you were attacked before carrying out an attack.
You will have the right to defend yourself, but that "defence" won't be like the way the Israelis are defending themselves against Lebanon right now. That "defence" will be truly defensive in nature.
No country will have veto power in any organization of all the countries. Every countries vote will count the same.
So you see my friend, if we work together, we can come up with answers to pretty much every question you can comeup with. Even distribution of cellphone numbers, if that is amongst the 18 most important things you care about. Although I hope you are not that stupid.
Re: Islam and democracy
So that takes care of some foreign policy issues.
Now let us tackle education.
Education will be available to everyone who wants it. There will be no public or private schools. They will all be the same standard. The fees paid by parents will be dependent upon their incomes and the state will pay for the education of those that cannot afford it. And the state will collect taxes to achieve it or the state will own its own businesses. Islamic education will be a part of the curriculum and boys and girls will be in separate classrooms after a certain age. There will be no proms.
As far as Financial system is concerned, brother Muslim First referred to a lot of ayahs in another post. You can use those. Let me know if you can't find them, I will post them again.
Human rights. These have been dealt with elaborately in the quran. Of course there is no mention of Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo. But if you find them mentioned in any ayah, let me know.
Now let us tackle education.
Education will be available to everyone who wants it. There will be no public or private schools. They will all be the same standard. The fees paid by parents will be dependent upon their incomes and the state will pay for the education of those that cannot afford it. And the state will collect taxes to achieve it or the state will own its own businesses. Islamic education will be a part of the curriculum and boys and girls will be in separate classrooms after a certain age. There will be no proms.
As far as Financial system is concerned, brother Muslim First referred to a lot of ayahs in another post. You can use those. Let me know if you can't find them, I will post them again.
Human rights. These have been dealt with elaborately in the quran. Of course there is no mention of Abu Ghraib or Guantanamo. But if you find them mentioned in any ayah, let me know.
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Average Bohra
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Re: Islam and democracy
History is littered with Islamic conquests, those which did not attack them first.For eg you will not be allowed to attack another country unless and until it has attacked you first, and you will need to prove it to other countries in the world that you were attacked before carrying out an attack.
Please post Hadith or Quranic verse authorising 3 months and not three days.A leader will be allowed to change public opinion against him within 3 months. Within those 3 months he will not be allowed to attack any country.
Since most countries weren't around at the time, please specify the countries that your Hadith specifies. Any other country you prove it to will be blasphemous. Please provide evidence that during Islamic conquests of yester years (that still give you a stiff one), that other countries were provided with proof that Islam was attacked. Hadith ?For eg you will not be allowed to attack another country unless and until it has attacked you first, and you will need to prove it to other countries in the world that you were attacked before carrying out an attack.
Please document an organization of all the countries that the Quran recognized.No country will have veto power in any organization of all the countries.
Absolutely. That is the problem, while smoking the Hookah, exhaling from your *** , and watching tortured Muslim infants jockeying your camels.we can come up with answers to pretty much every question you can comeup with
Re: Islam and democracy
Average Bohra,
I would suggest that you not waste your time trying to fix the issues with the world. Most of the issues start with you and not with Islam. Once we get rid of idiots like you, 90% of the worlds problems will go away automatically.
I would suggest that you not waste your time trying to fix the issues with the world. Most of the issues start with you and not with Islam. Once we get rid of idiots like you, 90% of the worlds problems will go away automatically.
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Average Bohra
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Re: Islam and democracy
Please post answers to my questions from the Hadith and Quran, and consult with Muslim First if you can't find them.
Simply holding hypocrites accountable to their own standards.
Simply holding hypocrites accountable to their own standards.
Re: Islam and democracy
Furthermore all the law-makers and lawyers will be whabi's.Everybody will have to follow their interpretation of Quran and hadis.
salams
salams
Re: Islam and democracy
Average Moron,
Before hitting the reply button, make sure you read the complete sentence/paragraph. You should do that even before you copy and paste posts of others. It will save all of us a lot of time and effort. Now try and figure out what you've missed.
seeker,
You wouldn't understand the translation of the quran if you were the one translating it.
Salaams.
Before hitting the reply button, make sure you read the complete sentence/paragraph. You should do that even before you copy and paste posts of others. It will save all of us a lot of time and effort. Now try and figure out what you've missed.
seeker,
You wouldn't understand the translation of the quran if you were the one translating it.
Salaams.
Re: Islam and democracy
seeker,
I missed a piece. Here it is - You wouldn't understand the translation of the quran if you yourself were the one translating it. So you should leave the translation and interpretation of it to others.
I missed a piece. Here it is - You wouldn't understand the translation of the quran if you yourself were the one translating it. So you should leave the translation and interpretation of it to others.
Re: Islam and democracy
All Wahabis are controlled by a king.Who himself is controlled by America and Israel.Go and get those people free before talking about democracy.
Answer the questions asked without pointing fingers,as your reply.
How many wahabis does it take to screw in a light bulb?Dont know,will need to check the hadis or Anajmi will tell us its our fault the bulb went out.
Answer the questions asked without pointing fingers,as your reply.
How many wahabis does it take to screw in a light bulb?Dont know,will need to check the hadis or Anajmi will tell us its our fault the bulb went out.