Forged Hadith Qudsai

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Dear Qiyam,<p>Wasi does not mean asaas. It just so happens that Ali is Muhammad's wasi and asaas of Imaamat.<p>

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I do not understand how you come to the conclusion that the titles nabi and rasul are added on to Imamat.<p>Imamat is Divine Leadership of everything. However, Prophet Moses and Jesus were sent only to the Israelites. <p>And remember, Abraham was a nabi and rasul. However, it was only AFTER he fulfilled Allah's specific commands that he was granted the station of Imamat. This shows that Imamat is HIGHER than Prophethood and Messengership.<p>How could John the Baptist (Yahya bin Zacharias) be the Wasi of Jesus. Jesus and John never preached together. In fact, Jesus' mission began after John was executed.<p>In our belief, Simon Peter, was the Wasi and Imam with Jesus.

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hey Hafeez, Gora,exMuslim,<p>go to www.talkaboutislam.com<p>this is the biggest msg board for muslims<p>unfortunately it is sunni controlled and operated and lately there has been a lot posts agaisnt ismailis and other sects. <p>and the pathetic thing is that the moderators edit the posts of ismailis and endorse the posts of others who are slandering and maligning them.

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Qiyam <p>Do us all a favour:<br>Stop calling yourselves Imamis! You are not; you are rather - follower of literal 7th century Sunnah!<p>Your were an Imami 900 years ago; In the meanwhile you have METAMORPED into a Follower of Sunnah/Hadeeths and your understanding of Imams is a tad 900 years too old! <p>I realize that the 7th century is ABOVE ALL TIME & SPACE for you but this is not how we followers of Imam e Zamaan interpret REALITY. So, do us all a favour - MOVE on to ahl as sunnah!<p>To br nizari,<br>Thanks for clearing up on the hadis kudsi. The mullah still doesn't get it.

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Dear Porus,<br>Thank you for correcting me. Asas is foundation..as in foundation of imamate..whereas wasi is executor or legatee.<p>Dear Nizari,<p>"Imamat is Divine Leadership of everything. However, Prophet Moses and Jesus were sent <br>only to the Israelites."<br>---Allah restricted Islam to only Bani Israel. This is why the prophets before Muhammad are called Israelite Prophets. It was with Muhammad that Islam was brought for all human kind.<p>"And remember, Abraham was a nabi and rasul."<br>However, it was only AFTER he fulfilled Allah's specific commands that he was granted the station of Imamat. This shows that Imamat is HIGHER than Prophethood and Messengership."<p>---Where is it written that Abraham was a nabi or rasul before an Imam..please reference. Remember, Muhammad was an Imam for forty years before becoming a nabi or rasul.<p>"How could John the Baptist (Yahya bin Zacharias) be the Wasi of Jesus. Jesus and John never preached together."<p>---Actually, according to biblical sources...it was Yahya nabi that baptized Jesus. Yahya is recorded to have preached of the coming messiah. It is Yahya that transferred the Imamate to AbdulMuttalib.<p>"In our belief, Simon Peter, was the Wasi and Imam with Jesus."<p>---Peter was not related in anyways to Jesus...thus cannot be an Imam. Peter was a companion of Jesus.<br>

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Dear Hafeez,<br>Do us all a favor an stop writing as though you have a clue to what we're discussing. You blantantly misquote and argue points that go against Agha Khanni beliefs, let alone shiah and sunni.

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How was Muhammad an Imam for forty years?<br> "---Allah restricted Islam to only Bani Israel. This is why the prophets before Muhammad are called Israelite Prophets. It was with Muhammad that Islam was brought for all human kind."<p> - this is wrong. Allah sent messenger to ALL nations. Not only Israel. In India there was Buddha and the sages. In China, the wise men, and COnfucious to name a few. In Greece, Aristotle, Socrates, and Plato. Allah revealed a law and message to ALL nations. No nation was sent without a messenger from Him.<p>As for Simon Peter. Biblical sources make it clear that he was to be Jesus' successor. There is little background info on Simon Peter. However, it appears in the Bible that he was given an exalted postition over the other Apostles. Peter does not have to be related to Jesus. because, he would have descended from Aaron and have recieved Imamat through his father.<p>As for John, the bible contradicts itself on this matter. Some of it says he baptized jesus and other parts say he didnt even know jesus.<p>And how did john transfer Imamat to Abu Muttalib, they were not even contemporary with each other? <p>

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hafeez, go to talkaboutislam.com<br>they are severely slandering the ismailies there.

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--Dear Hafeez,<br>Do us all a favor an stop writing as though you have a clue to what we're discussing. You blantantly misquote and argue points that go against Agha Khanni beliefs, let alone shiah and sunni.--<p>Qiyam,<p>I mean for those (like you) who believe that MIRAJ was a horse-back ride on a horse with a female face .... is telling others about lack of knowledge...!<p>Gee wheez!

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nizari<p>I have sent you an email at the address that you gave early on!

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Dear Nizari,<br>Muhammad received the first revealation of the Quran at the age of fourty year old.<p>"this is wrong. Allah sent messenger to ALL nations. Not only Israel. In India there was Buddha and the sages."<p>--Allah sent messenger to particular community..the only one we know about are throught the bible and Quran are in the mideast. I realize there were 124,000 prophet of which we only know about 24 by name. I cannot say they're were or were not. The prophets were are refering to are for the Bani Israel.<p>Buddha was a man and didn't believe in a God. He believe in physical and more importantly mental oneness.<p>"In China, the wise men, and Confucious to name a few."<p>---Confucious also a man who didn't believe in God...but in mental and physical self-oneness.<p>"In Greece, Aristotle, Socrates, and Plato."<br>---All of which didn't believe in a one true God or God at all.<p>"Allah revealed a law and message to ALL nations. No nation was sent without a messenger from Him."<p>---I again refer to the Quran and the Prophet referencing the Prophets of Bani Israel. There were 124,000...so maybe they were at other nation. That is total speculation.

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Acutually, Buddha did believe in God. However, most Buddhists believe that he didtn because his focus was on the inner spirituality.<p>Confucious did believe in God. He was not all open about it.<p>We have to remember that the message was delivered to different nations through different means. <p>In Israel, it was all about tribal dieties, so Allah presented himself as Israel's tribal God. <p>In China, the focus was philosophy and ways of living. So the sages delivered the messae in this way.<p>In Greece, philosophy and science played a big role for ppl. The works of Socrates did speak of some invisible diety. Of course, not the way we would speak of him. Plato had a whole philosophy which was adopted by Fatimid Ismailis. This philosophy has a divine concept to it.<p>There was also Zoraster in Persia to name another Prophet.<p>The thing about the Israelite prophets that made them special was that they came from the House of Abraham. <p>But do not believe that only israel recieved prophets, everyone did.

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I got a chance to visit the site talkaboutislam.com and was pleasantly surprised, you know why, stuff posted by Ismailis considered inappropriate is deleted without explanations.<p>Nizaris over there post with utmost respect, not one word of HATE or SLANDER.<p>Maybe we should do the same. Start deleting their blasphemous messages.

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<br>******************************<br>We have to remember that the message was delivered to different nations through different means. <p>In Israel, it was all about tribal dieties, so Allah presented himself as Israel's tribal God. <p>In China, the focus was philosophy and ways of living. So the sages delivered the messae in this way.<p>******************************************<p>So in this day and age when gamblingg, Making money from Haraam business practic amd rampant moral degradation Ismaili's are lucky that Allah has given them HI to permit such activites by his own example.<p><br>

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Nizari, hafeez, Gora etc.<p>I don't think there is any point in visiting or posting to sites that are prejudiced or have unshakeable pre-conceptions. If you really want to read abuse directed at Islam generally and Sunni Islam in particular then visit alt.religion.islam at Google Groups.<p>I do not believe Muslim First will ever cease his attacks against anyone who does not share his beliefs. You know they say imitation is the best form of flattery and jealousy is the surest admission of inferiority. I guess anyone basing their total faith in books "edited" by questionable collaborators have a lot to feel inferior about.<p>BTW Muslim First, you really ought to visit alt.religion.islam. Someone sharing your absolute beliefs in ahadith has been baiting Jews and Hindus and by God these people have been dishing it out back at him! A very "interesting" discussion on Aisha and semen. Maybe GurSevak and his alter ego will cut and paste some from that site on these boards.<p>As for qiyam, Allah know best why He created someone like him. We all believe Allah is Perfect; He has never created anything which does not have a purpose. Maybe English is his problem; maybe he has been created to remind the rest of us what we would have been but for the Grace of Allah!<p>This is definitely my final post on these boards; those offended by me can write what they like.... "sticks and stones...."<p>Khuda Hafiz

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Dear ExMuslim,<br>Please do take your own advice. For person who asked me many questions...your last posted hard case of hypocrisy. Thank you for wasting my time.

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qiyam bhaya,<p>Itne naraz kyu(n) hote ho(n)?<p>If you need a nemesis, I am still around.<p>anajmi, right on man! Let's delete anything that does not fit in with our tried and tested 7 century logic. I note that you have had your two cents worth on evolution as well. Man may or may not have evolved but we all know one who has not fertilised yet don't we?

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Dear Gursevak,<br>I have no need nor long for a nemesis. When asked questions..I try to answer to the best of my ability. For ExMuslim to ask me questions and clarifications...then make the comment of "why Allah has created me" is both insulting to me as a muslim and hypocritcal for him to be asking me questions on fiqh topics. And then to top it off...he advises please not to call him names!

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Gud,<p>Too bad Darwin isn't around else he would've definitely been able to use you to prove his theory of evolution.<p>Now we all know who the missing link is. <p>And no, we don't know who has not yet fertilized, you fit the description though. <p>The missing not yet fertilized link - Gursevak.<p>The answer to problems faced by evolutionists for so long!!

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Anajmi,<p>Another show of originality! As a semi-fertilised creature you are not expected to understand or remember what you read. Look back, admittedly with a lot of effort, and you will realise that that was the handle first given to you in another post.

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Gud,<p>Now you sure made me laugh. Guess you finally are ready to become a sardar.<p>Gursevak to Anajmi - ""boohoohoohoo (crying) I called you semi-fertillized first, you called me second, so I win, boohoohoohoo (crying) Mummy boohoohoohoo (more crying)""

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"Now you sure made me laugh."<p>Is that Islamic? Please quote source for the answer (if you bother answering)

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Anajmi<p>""boohoohoohoo (crying) I called you semi-fertillized first, you called me second, so I win, boohoohoohoo (crying) Mummy boohoohoohoo (more crying)""<p>When did you graduate to reading comics yaar? Does your mummy know that? Better hide them under the bed again!

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boohoohoo, now I am crying!! May Allah save us from Gud and his likes.

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A true (wahabi) Muslim! Take Allah's name in vain. Anyone got a hadith describing such people?

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Gud,<p>If you need to know what the meaning of vain is, you need to do a little more research on Sardars and Ismailis.

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By the way, do you ever wonder why Allah created you as a Sardar? Well, here is the truth --- it's cause you didn't deserve any better.